Germany v Italy

Pighead

Seaneh wrote: »

Lol at every writing Italy off as no hopers, boring and defensive a month ago. I told you they would surprise you all

You also told us that Germany would win the competition. Kind of negates your 'I told you so' post.

Cracking game this evening and as said earlier it was a shame that Germany couldn't have scored that goal ten minutes earlier. Thought Schweinsteiger was pretty poor this evening (hasn't had a great tournament actually) and Boateng was pretty lazy for most of the evening. Just one of those nights for Germany, nothing really went for them. They're better than what they showed this evening but in fairness to Italy they had their tactics spot on.

Looking forward to the final now. Interesting match up.

kryogen

Boateng was easily the worst player on the pitch tonight whatever the **** was wrong with him

HazDanz

Pighead wrote: »

Boateng was pretty lazy for most of the evening.

kryogen wrote: »

Boateng was easily the worst player on the pitch tonight whatever the **** was wrong with him

He wasn't at the races was he. Nice flick in the first half but that was about it. Cheilini kept things in order very well on his side tonight.

Mr.Nice Guy

Happy for the Italians to be there. Great people.

I think the German team seelction was wrong. Reus, Klose and Mueller should have been on from the start in my view. I think both Spain and Germany have been guilty of too much tinkering. Spain have gotten away with it though.

I still fancy Spain to do the business but I think the Italians will make a game of it. Should be a good final.

grenache

If anyone can topple Spain, the Italians can. The Spanish don't like playing the Italians, never have. Because the Italians keep the ball and defend well. Italy don't give the ball away cheap like Croatia or Portugal. Spain chipped away at them for 90 minutes in the first game and and only got past them once. A moment of genius from Xavi for the pass to Fabregas - And this was before Italy had momentum.

The Italian defence, which is more or less the Juve defence (meanest defence in Europe) is virtually inpenetrable. The same can certainly not be said for the Spanish defence, especially full backs Arbeloa and Jordi Alba - they gave enough opportunities to the Italians and Croats in the group stages.

Balotelli is on form and he will unsettle any defence, especially with his physical presence. I'm quietly confident of an Italian victory.

Pighead

kryogen wrote: »

Boateng was easily the worst player on the pitch tonight whatever the **** was wrong with him

Had a stinker alright. I remember at some stage during the second half he had the ball three times in the space of a minute and gave it away each time. Two awful throws straight to an Italian and then a terrible cross again straight to a blue shirt.

Then just before he was hauled of he was so so slow to react to what would have been a 50/50 ball between himself and De Rossi letting the Italian win the ball with ease. Very bad night at the office.

kryogen

Yeah I remember the thrwo ins alright, and it seemed he was on his heels and completely asleep when there was a 50/50 to be won, or even if a teammate was passing to him and it didnt go straight to feet he wouldnt react quick enough to actually get on the ball.

He may not have been 100% maybe? I dunno, but he looked like a guy who's head just wasn't there tonight

HazDanz

kryogen wrote: »

He may not have been 100% maybe? I dunno, but he looked like a guy who's head just wasn't there tonight

A lot of pressure on the germans too, can't be easy being expected to win and play well the whole time.

dfx-

Corholio wrote: »

Dont know why people are writing off Spain. I thought they played well against Portugal. I think just because they didn't have a lead, some think it means they played poor.

It seems to be a default mechanism to doubt them.

Italy, Portugal, France, Croatia and only one goal conceded. That includes Benzema, Modric, Ronaldo, Nani, Di Natale, Cassano, Balotelli, Nasri, Ribery in those attacks. Any other team with that sort of defensive record, creativity (in Iniesta's left toenail alone) and ability to control a game would be fawned over.

There was only a few people backing Spain in the thread before the tournament..

kryogen

HazDanz wrote: »

A lot of pressure on the germans too, can't be easy being expected to win and play well the whole time.

Yeah, but its not an excuse, if you want to win major trophies you have to deal with that pressure

Schweinsteiger has had a poor tournament and was poor tonight, I suspect he was not 100% fit at all for this tournament, Lahm made a huge error playing Balotelli onside which really killed the game, uncharacteristic of him.

Kroos was played out of position, which made no sense, Gomez should not have played that game, I said this before the game too, he just does not have the movement to trouble an Italian defence. There plenty of mistakes made I think but at the end of the day you just have to tip your hat to Italy.

They took their chances when they came and they put on a masterclass in defence. Germany just not good enough on the night to beat them but this German team is good enough to win something soon I think. Some excellent young players who will benefit from the experience and some more coming through

kryogen

dfx- wrote: »

It seems to be a default mechanism to doubt them.

Italy, Portugal, France, Croatia and only one goal conceded. That includes Benzema, Modric, Ronaldo, Nani, Di Natale, Cassano, Balotelli, Nasri, Ribery in those attacks. Any other team with that sort of defensive record, creativity (in Iniesta's left toenail alone) and ability to control a game would be fawned over.

There was only a few people backing Spain in the thread before the tournament..

I think its to do with people thinking that Spains run has to end soon 3 major titles in a row has never been done, has three major finals in a row been done?


Also they have not looked at their best, they look a little tired and they have come through the tougher side of the draw. I still make them favorites, but I can see why people are supporting Italy.

The other thing is that success breeds contempt and with Spains brand of football a lot of people are getting sick of watching training matches with little goal mouth action and even less end to end stuff that gets the people excited!

HazDanz

kryogen wrote: »

I think its to do with people thinking that Spains run has to end soon 3 major titles in a row has never been done, has three major finals in a row been done?


Also they have not looked at their best, they look a little tired and they have come through the tougher side of the draw. I still make them favorites, but I can see why people are supporting Italy.

The other thing is that success breeds contempt and with Spains brand of football a lot of people are getting sick of watching training matches with little goal mouth action and even less end to end stuff that gets the people excited!

It is a new record set by Spain getting to this third final in a row.

Italy produced more entertaining games this tournament for me. I love great defending so i'm bias towards them though.

The fact that Spain just strangle hold matches it makes their games a bit predictable and it's hard to get the same kick seeing them break down a team with brillant movement and passing this time around as say their 2008 win did.

Turtwig

kryogen wrote: »

The other thing is that success breeds contempt and with Spains brand of football a lot of people are getting sick of watching training matches with little goal mouth action and even less end to end stuff that gets the people excited!

We already have the solution for low attention span folk.:pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vJn5XxWg9U

kryogen

I love a great defensive display too, Ireland and England way not so much but the Italian way is excellent

The final between Milan and Juve a few years back was a fascinating game for me even though a lot of my mates found it boring, it was two teams defences not giving the other an inch, great to watch that level of skill and discipline in games.

Spain as a unit are fantastic defensively because of how well they keep the ball, I like to watch Spanish games when they are at least tested, like in the first half of the semi final, but when its just a training match I lose interest. The final should be a cracker

kryogen

Video is brilliant!

Has to be a piss take but ****in brilliant

It Could Work!!!

J. Marston

I never knew Donovan's midfield chest trap record was that good. Impressive.

Blatter

grenache wrote: »

If anyone can topple Spain, the Italians can. The Spanish don't like playing the Italians, never have. Because the Italians keep the ball and defend well. Italy don't give the ball away cheap like Croatia or Portugal. Spain chipped away at them for 90 minutes in the first game and and only got past them once. A moment of genius from Xavi for the pass to Fabregas - And this was before Italy had momentum.

The Italian defence, which is more or less the Juve defence (meanest defence in Europe) is virtually inpenetrable. The same can certainly not be said for the Spanish defence, especially full backs Arbeloa and Jordi Alba - they gave enough opportunities to the Italians and Croats in the group stages.

Balotelli is on form and he will unsettle any defence, especially with his physical presence. I'm quietly confident of an Italian victory.

Huh?

In the first game between Spain and Italy, Italy gave as good as they got for 60 mins. But then Spain split their defense regularly in the last half an hour and should have won comfortably only for Torres fluffing a few chances.

Renn

Huh?

Italy had some really good chances in the last 20 mins as well. True that Spain created a few more once Torres came on but to say they should have won comfortably is just silly.

SlickRic

dfx- wrote: »

It seems to be a default mechanism to doubt them.

Italy, Portugal, France, Croatia, Ireland and only one goal conceded. That includes Benzema, Modric, Ronaldo, Nani, Di Natale, Cassano, Balotelli, Nasri, Ribery, McGeady, Andrews in those attacks. Any other team with that sort of defensive record, creativity (in Iniesta's left toenail alone) and ability to control a game would be fawned over.

There was only a few people backing Spain in the thread before the tournament..

glaring omissions tbh.

Blatter

What chances did Italy create in the last 20 mins? I can only remember Di Natalie having one. Spain had almost all of the ball in that time, Torres fluffed 3 chances and Alonso drove a shot narrowly wide at the death.

By comfortable, I meant that if Spain had even gone 2-1 up (which they should have done) they would have sat back and comfortably closed out the game as Italy were wrecked.

GavRedKing

Blatter wrote: »

What chances did Italy create in the last 20 mins? I can only remember Di Natalie having one. Spain had almost all of the ball in that time, Torres fluffed 3 chances and Alonso drove a shot narrowly wide at the death.

By comfortable, I meant that if Spain had even gone 2-1 up (which they should have done) they would have sat back and comfortably closed out the game as Italy were wrecked.

Got to agree, the Italian back line seem to forget that Spain brought on a forward, they were caught by simple through balls on a few occasions because Torres was making the runs that Fabregas/Silva/Iniesta werent, Torres should have scored at least one of his chances and the game would have been past Italy at that stage.

It certainly makes for an interesting Final but I can only see a Spanish victory despite the resolve of the Italians.

Renn

Ah so by comfortable you actually mean a 1 goal lead vs a team still creating chances vs you (and the only team to score a goal against you in the entire tournament).

Di Natale had a great chance as did Marchisio (who's chance at 88mins was with 5 guys breaking forward with speed, not looking too tired at all).

NIMAN

Final will go to pens.

Gotta love the Italians. Boy can they raise their game when they need to i.e. in tournaments. What a record they have. Simply outclasses a really fancied Germany last night, shows us what all the pundits and media really know.:rolleyes:

7 of the team are from Juve and they were unbeaten all season. I think their togetherness has really showed this time. As usual they are great at the back, and Pirlo has been player of the tournament by a mile. A joy to watch.

I love seeing Italy do well - they always seem to have people against them. For me they don't play boring football, they just defend well, there's a difference.

As for that CL final between Juve and Milan. People said it was the worst final they had ever seen, personally I was enthralled during it. It was 2 teams displaying the art of defending at the absolute highest level. Football is about defending too.

So I'll be cheering on Italy come the final.

Richard Hillman

I think the term "Never write off the Germans" has been replaced with Never write off the Italians. Every time you think the are down and out they come back heroically with so much style, pizazz and passion. Everything they do is beautiful and dramatic.

Rekop dog

Don't think Cassano got enough plaudits for his performance last night, thought he was marvelous in the first half, his disguised pass for the Montolivo chance was superb. Movement was very troublesome for the German defence as he was constantly pulling them wide creating more space for Mario centrally. He has made 15 key passes in the tournament, more than any other player in the competition, what more can you ask from a number 10! You don't see that many classic 9+10 partnerships anymore and it's nice to see one working so fluidly like Italy last night.

Antonio's performances have been all that more impressive after only recently returning from serious heart problems, had a great undestanding with Ibra this season before the problems and was really missed for the time he was out as Ibra had to drop deeper into the playmakers role himself during his absence. He brought the best out of Pazzini at Samp too, whose never looked as clinical since, basically a dream player for any marksman to play up front with even if his work goes relatively unnoticed compared to the Balotelli's and Pirlo's in the team.

Renn

He got some plaudits on the Guardian podcast fwiw. Brilliant performance and just a shame he's not 100% fit to last the 90mins.

jmayo

TripleAce wrote: »

a lot of people here could have done better for the past month or so considering Italy the underdogs in every single game for losing a couple of useless friendly games pre-Euro lol....watching Spain playing is just pathetic lately, and to see the bookies having them as favourites in the final is plain ridiculous...

Actually I do often find watching Spain boring.
Yep it is great to see how good they are at keeping the ball and how fast they can get it back, but bloody hell it would be nice to see someone tearing down the wings whipping the ball into a centre forward.

SlickRic wrote: »

credit to Italy, but Germany were an absolute shambles.

stupid system, clueless looking, no width, players confused as to their rule...Low needs to be asked serious questions about that performance.

Ozil, their best player arguably in attack, was left on the periphery because all of Germany's players seemed to be trying to play the same position.

Balotelli, though...fúcking hell.

who'd have thunk it was his tournament to somewhat come of age, eh?!

I think Germany got cocky last night, that together with some of their players being out of sorts and some weird management decisions meant they were found out.

Schweinsteiger has not been at the races in this tournament or even latter stages of the season I reckon.
He needs a rest and he should have been rested against Greece.
Kroos is not really that good.
Should Mueller have been on.
Gomez can be a great finisher, but Klose can still be a better option.
Boateng had a howler and never really got going forward.
Humels came into last nights match with growing reputation, but he was too easily beaten for Balotelli's first goal.
And surprisingly Lahm made a cockup for the second goal.

kryogen wrote: »

Yeah, but its not an excuse, if you want to win major trophies you have to deal with that pressure

Schweinsteiger has had a poor tournament and was poor tonight, I suspect he was not 100% fit at all for this tournament, Lahm made a huge error playing Balotelli onside which really killed the game, uncharacteristic of him.

True.

kryogen wrote: »

They took their chances when they came and they put on a masterclass in defence. Germany just not good enough on the night to beat them but this German team is good enough to win something soon I think. Some excellent young players who will benefit from the experience and some more coming through

I don't know.
Brazil have to be favourites for the next world cup althought the pressue on them will be immense.
As for next Euros, who knows by then.
This German team are still missing a few players.

Anyway hats off to Italy.
Their defense was immense and Balotelli delivered.
Now hopefully he does the same in the final.
The worrying thing for Italy is that without Balotelli their attack looks iffy.

kryogen

Thats the major concern for me regarding Italy, unless the Balotelli that turned up last night turns up again in the final I dont see how they win

cgpg5

That was a criminal one on one miss by Di Natale as well as that waste by Marchisio. Could have cost them but they deservedly held on.

Was a little surprised by Prandelli using his full complement so early (around 70 mins iirc). What if someone happened to get injured after 75 mins then they'd have 15 mins down to ten and maybe even more beyond that! Maybe I'm being ott but thought it was a strange enough move.

supersean1999

pirlo is a class act, he really has stepped up in these euros, i hope he plays anoother blinder against the spanish

supersean1999

kryogen wrote: »

Thats the major concern for me regarding Italy, unless the Balotelli that turned up last night turns up again in the final I dont see how they win

pirlo is the main man, if he cant get space against spain, it matter what balotelli does because he will not get any decent balls, he might be back to kicking the posts and attacking the manager ,

kryogen

supersean1999 wrote: »

pirlo is the main man, if he cant get space against spain, it matter what balotelli does because he will not get any decent balls, he might be back to kicking the posts and attacking the manager ,

Pirlo is the main man yep, but he won't be on the end of things since he will be the one starting things.

I don't have faith in Di Natale or Cassano to trouble the goal as much as I would Balotelli. Surely last night showed the difference when he turns up?

In attack Italy still look toothless without him imo

supersean1999

kryogen wrote: »

Pirlo is the main man yep, but he won't be on the end of things since he will be the one starting things.

I don't have faith in Di Natale or Cassano to trouble the goal as much as I would Balotelli. Surely last night showed the difference when he turns up?

In attack Italy still look toothless without him imo

i agree balotelli would be the most dangerous, but if spain are smart enough to man mark pirlo, the italians wont get those chances like they did last night, it takes a team to score a goal, cassano done brilliant for first and great finish by balotelli for second, i would love to see pirlo running the show and spain beaten, 1 goal could do it fingers crossed and balotelli did not score in the first game,

The_Kew_Tour

Pirlo v Xavi is what im really looking forward to.

Come on Pirlo. Prove me right son:D

carlop

kryogen wrote: »

Pirlo is the main man yep, but he won't be on the end of things since he will be the one starting things.

I don't have faith in Di Natale or Cassano to trouble the goal as much as I would Balotelli. Surely last night showed the difference when he turns up?

In attack Italy still look toothless without him imo

It shouldn't be forgotten that Cassano also put in a great performance last night, that in a large part allowed Balotelli to shine. Both will need to repeat that on Sunday.

Di Natale is definitely a good option off the bench too. He wasn't great last night, but the man is a goalscorer, and he has already scored against Spain in this tournament.

Overall though, it's great to see Prandelli succeeding, for both footballing and non-footballing reasons. His Fiorentina side played some lovely stuff (as Liverpool fans will remember:pac:) and he has brought that philosophy to the national team.

For non-footballing reasons, he has always come across as a class act, and he went through a very tough time a few years ago losing his wife to cancer. You get a real sense that the players are very much playing for him, and there seems to be a great spirit in the squad.

jmayo

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Pirlo v Xavi is what im really looking forward to.

Come on Pirlo. Prove me right son:D

IMHO Pirlo has been head and shoulders above the much lauded spanish midfielders in this tournament.
I think Xavi looks to be tired.

The bigger question for Sunday is will Spain start with Torres or will they start with Negredo or Fabregas ?

Paparazzo

jmayo wrote: »

I think Germany got cocky last night, that together with some of their players being out of sorts and some weird management decisions meant they were found out..

+1, Germany had that look and feel that they "knew" they were going to win if they turned up. Bayern Munich had that same look and feel to them against Chelsea in the CL final.

population

jmayo wrote: »

IMHO Pirlo has been head and shoulders above the much lauded spanish midfielders in this tournament.
I think Xavi looks to be tired.

The bigger question for Sunday is will Spain start with Torres or will they start with Negredo or Fabregas ?

Pirlo has done what he has done all season with Juve. He is a player reborn since that transfer. In fairness though in response to your criticism of the Spanish midfield, surely you would have to admit that Iniesta has been very impressive?

Saganist

Hope Italy do the Spanish. Prilo is player of the tournament for me. He makes the game look so simple.. Can't believe that Milan where stupid enough to let him go to Juve.. FOR FREE... The mind boggles.. lol

Also, the small bet I made on Italy ( @14/1 ) before the start of the whole thing might just put a smile on my face come Sunday night..

Forza Italia.. :D

Nuri Sahin

Ugh, some of the comments about Germany. I'll skirt the edges here, but there were three big issues from a Germany POV..

The line up being one. Podolski offered the square root of **** all in the tourney, and as I've stressed many times before, he isn't effective when played wide left anymore. I really hope he plays there for Arsenal next season. Muller wasn't great neither.

I didn't get the inclusion of Kroos by the end.

I honestly do not think Gomez can play with Ozil, as the latter needs a willing runner to open angles and space be it for him or his teammates.. like what Klose offers. The way THIS Germany plays, is why polls in Germany were in favour of starting Klose from the very beginning.

Boetang can do a role, a defensive role and was fantastic vs Portugal in their opening game. But when asked to get forward, he was a deer in headlights.

Overall there was a serious lack of width except with Schurrle and Reus played in the quarter finals, and every now and again from Lahm and Khedira.

Serious lack of man marking Pirlo too. Pirlo will always have an effect on the game, but Löw was idiotic in not having someone do that.

The second point being that Schweini didn't show up. He only came back from injury before the CL Final, he looks horribly rusty and lethargic throughout the Euros. Last night was the worst game arguably that I've seen him have in years. Not saying I myself wouldn't have started him, he is afterall a top quality player and up there with the best in his position but there is no denying he offered little, and was a massive hindrance last night. Something of which the Italians failed to captailise on, his misplaced passes that is.

Lastly, and it's arguably the most key factor here. Germany have lost their efficiency in getting the job done by whatever means. They committed the fewest fouls and earned fewest bookings per game of all teams.

On a positive Khedira was fantastic and was that throughout the tourney, he really steps up for country. Hummels didn't have his best game last night by any means, but after maintaining an extremely high standard for the past 2 years, he was probably due a bad moment/game. Nonetheless, last night aside he was magnificent.

Said it on Twitter post-match, but I'll say it there, kudos to Italy, have family and friends who live there, I've been there so many times over the years too, so I'm chuffed for them.

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Pirlo v Xavi is what im really looking forward to.

Come on Pirlo. Prove me right son:D

Right about what?

Jelle1880

Just read that all the Italian players (should they win the tournament) will donate all their bonus money to the victims of the earthquakes.

Classy.

NIMAN

Paparazzo wrote: »

+1, Germany had that look and feel that they "knew" they were going to win if they turned up. Bayern Munich had that same look and feel to them against Chelsea in the CL final.

Germans, cocky? Never!

But you can bet they will go away now, analyze this defeat and 'failure' and make changes to rectify it.

Whereas England will go away, do nothing cos all will be good in the world when Rooney is banging them in v Stoke. And so their failure will continue....:D

Us the same, btw.:(

jmayo

population wrote: »

Pirlo has done what he has done all season with Juve. He is a player reborn since that transfer. In fairness though in response to your criticism of the Spanish midfield, surely you would have to admit that Iniesta has been very impressive?

I think Iniesta has been below par.
I think Pirlo has been magnificent and the best midfield general in the tournament.
I do think England and Germany gave him too much room, but even when he has been closed down he has still been great.

And to even better his performance he has been winning the ball back, hell I could swear he beat Carroll in the air.

paddyismaddy

pirlo is the player of the tournament pure class

NIMAN

Anyone think Wenger might be getting worried looking at how Podolski performed in the Euros?

Was very disappointing for me. Looked way off the pace.

dfx-

HazDanz wrote: »

It is a new record set by Spain getting to this third final in a row.

Apparently not:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/jun/28/euro-2012-spain-all-time-greats

Brazil in the mid 90s got to five

Boskowski

HazDanz wrote: »

kryogen wrote: »

I think its to do with people thinking that Spains run has to end soon 3 major titles in a row has never been done, has three major finals in a row been done?
...

It is a new record set by Spain getting to this third final in a row.
...

Germany '76?

Oat23

NIMAN wrote: »

Anyone think Wenger might be getting worried looking at how Podolski performed in the Euros?

Was very disappointing for me. Looked way off the pace.

Where do Arsenal plan to play him? He played up front for Köln and plays out wide for Germany.

Wenger should play him up front.

kryogen

NIMAN wrote: »

Anyone think Wenger might be getting worried looking at how Podolski performed in the Euros?

Was very disappointing for me. Looked way off the pace.

He has been pretty useless wide left for a long time now, made no sense to play him there.

Hopefully Wenger plays him there also

jmayo

Boskowski wrote: »

Germany '76?

West Germany won Euros 72, won World Cup 74 and lost on penalties to Czechoslovakia in 76.

Actaully the Panenka penalty to win it for Czechosolvakia was long before Pirlo.
Sheer guts and class.

Here it is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tp2HZNheCZ8

I wish people would realise that there were great teams and players before they started watching football.

EDIT:
If you took out the 1978 WC, Germany won the 1980 Euros and reached the final of WC final in 82, 86 and 1990.

I don't any country will come close to that run.