The Travelling Myth

leggo

SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »

And I suppose only your posts are intelligent? :rolleyes:

Smug self-righteous alert.

No, I'm specifically aiming that at you. Everyone else's are intelligent. Yours? Notsomuch.

fishy fishy

leggo wrote: »

Ugh. This is the attitude that I'm talking about:

"I had fun travelling so everyone must be jealous and want to do exactly what I did or they can't possibly have experienced anything in life."

Thanks for proving my point dude. Now you've successfully ruined a good thread because you were offended that somebody isn't in awe of your soon-to-be-published autobiography. Well done on that...

Ill just quote back on of your replies to me earlier

Em, you can't really use quotation marks when I haven't said what you're quoting. It's interesting to know that's how you read into it, though.

alzeimers, short memory span, lack of focus?

also, the word "dude" - do you really use that in real life

I rest my case - maybe you should stay at home after all

CucaFace

Leggo sorry but your post does come accross as totally bitter.

Also what discussion were you hoping for? You have obviously already made up your mind on the matter. You are just loking for like minded people to come on here and agree with you.

In my opinion the one true advantage of travelling for a while is that you have to leave the comfort zone of your friends and family and start again. It makes you more open to know new people and cultures and personally i think this helps someone develop as a person. Where you have gone to or what you have looked at or done on your travels doesn't really make much of a difference , its the people you meet along the way and what you learn from them which really makes travelling worth while.

The worst part of your view In my opinion is that you are judging something you have not even tried yourself?? How can you make such a call if you have never put yourself in that position?

As for travelling when you are retired well I just can't see what you will really take from other people at that age of your life to be honest.

SMASH THE UNIONS

leggo wrote: »

No, I'm specifically aiming that at you. Everyone else's are intelligent. Yours? Notsomuch.

Ad hominem. The last resort when the thread isn't going the way you planned.

Seriously mate, go and travel. You'll be glad you did. Ireland will still be here if you want to return.

Elba101

donalg1 wrote: »

Seems to me that you are doing it the right way, I should have mentioned in my original post that I cant stand the idea of people leaving Ireland and going somewhere like Australia and spending all their time hanging around with Irish people, I mean wtf is the point in doing that.

I don't think there's any right or wrong way to do it. I just think this would be a wasted experience if all I did was get hammered and talk to Irish people about Ireland.

leggo

Of course I'm bitter. Because nobody could be any other way if they don't choose to go backpacking. :rolleyes:

I'm not judging the need to travel, I respect people's rights to live their own lives. I said in my first post that I'm not anti-emigration. I'm judging the smugness and above attitude that comes back home with these people, as outlined above.

BraziliaNZ

Elba101 wrote: »

I don't think there's any right or wrong way to do it. I just think this would be a wasted experience if all I did was get hammered and talk to Irish people about Ireland.

Outside of Australia, where does this phenomenon happen that you all bang on about here?

BraziliaNZ

leggo wrote: »

I'm judging the smugness and above attitude that comes back home with these people, as outlined above.

Who do you know that has this attitude and smugness? You must know some total arseholes because name and place dropping in conversation is generally frowned upon and not very charming

Daith

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Outside of Australia, where does this phenomenon happen that you all bang on about here?

Canada.

Temptamperu

I went travelling but had to come home because all i did was work drink and f*ck. I wish i could of matured more but i didnt. It was a waste of 5 years to be honest. Still had fun though.
Now all I do is work and f*ck.

Always remember a little saying though where-ever you go, there you are.

leggo

Have you read half of this thread BraziliaNZ? It's filled with people assuming that anyone who doesn't think their stories should be made into a feature length movie is 'bitter'.

I'm happy for people who travel that enjoy life. Good for them! I'm just not happy when they automatically assume everyone else is jealous of them. And I get the sense that the only reason they travelled was to make people jealous...because their stories appear to be about them just getting drunk. The rest of their adventures could've been condensed into a week-long holiday by the sound of it. I've had those, they're nice. I just don't bang on about them to anyone who'll listen.

Duggys Housemate

The OP post is a contradictory straw man, or straw men. He whines about the 30 year olds who are single now - a statement without much proof as it happens - , and the Get Locked Out of My Mind in Australia bigrade. Both are different generations. The 30 year olds would have left during the boom, or the start of it, and most would go work with Americans, or English people, or Germans. This is my experience. Modern emigration is more common, so commonly there are more Irish people to drink with.

We don't know about the modern emigration pattern yet. Will people come home after 2 years, or so, if possible. I think so, meaning this is what australians and others do in reverse. Not the same thing.

He also misses the fact that a lot of people don't come home. Their travel experience is permanent. Thats a lifestyle change if ever there was one.

That said you never know until you go, you may find ireland not so bad if you travel; who know aught of Ireland who only Ireland know?

in any case, the subtext of this argument is the claim that marrying young is good, to the girl across the road, in the housing estate. Each to their own, but there must be a sense of insecurity if you have to bring this up.

suicide_circus

mikemac1 wrote: »

No matter where you go you take yourself with you

True . And for this very reason the only real escapism open to us is in a big bag of drugs, on a prayer mat or at the end of a rope.

SMASH THE UNIONS

leggo wrote: »

Have you read half of this thread BraziliaNZ? It's filled with people assuming that anyone who doesn't think their stories should be made into a feature length movie is 'bitter'.

Strawman argument. Nobody said their travelling experience should be made into a feature length film. You are clutching at staws if you must resort to hyperbole.

I'm happy for people who travel that enjoy life. Good for them! I'm just not happy when they automatically assume everyone else is jealous of them. And I get the sense that the only reason they travelled was to make people jealous...because their stories appear to be about them just getting drunk. The rest of their adventures could've been condensed into a week-long holiday by the sound of it. I've had those, they're nice. I just don't bang on about them to anyone who'll listen.

So it's not travelling per se that you have a problem with. It's when people talk about their travels - is that it? That tactic is called "moving the goalposts" in debate. Look up the term while you are also looking up "strawman". You make yet more false assupmtions: "the only reason they travelled was to make people jealous". It sounds like you are creating all this in your head. People travel because they enjoy the experience. It's not all about you. And for the record, I never met another Irish person when I spent a year in South Korea.

BraziliaNZ

Daith wrote: »

Canada.

Would you blame them? What are they supposed to do, hang out with the culturally rich Canadians? Christ... I spent a year in that country, most dull place on earth.

fishy fishy

leggo wrote: »

Have you read half of this thread BraziliaNZ? It's filled with people assuming that anyone who doesn't think their stories should be made into a feature length movie is 'bitter'.

I'm happy for people who travel that enjoy life. Good for them! I'm just not happy when they automatically assume everyone else is jealous of them. And I get the sense that the only reason they travelled was to make people jealous...because their stories appear to be about them just getting drunk. The rest of their adventures could've been condensed into a week-long holiday by the sound of it. I've had those, they're nice. I just don't bang on about them to anyone who'll listen.

re your first paragraph? what are you on about? That sounds like a whole lotta paranoia on your part.

Re. your second paragraph - I think it is you that is the jealous one - you can't seem to stand hearing about people having fun - why on earth do you hang around with them - can't you go find some bitter, serious people to hang with.

leggo

Hardly moving the goalposts now lads, your persistent interjections calling me 'bitter' have changed this conversation considerably. Again, psychological evaluations should probably be save for actual psychologists.

But if it makes you sleep better at night thinking that everyone who doesn't share your experiences is just jealous, then go ahead by all means. You can say to your friends, "Haters gonna hate." People in situations like yours often do that!

fishy fishy

leggo wrote: »

Hardly moving the goalposts now lads, your persistent interjections calling me 'bitter' have changed this conversation considerably. Again, psychological evaluations should probably be save for actual psychologists.

But if it makes you sleep better at night thinking that everyone who doesn't share your experiences is just jealous, then go ahead by all means. You can say to your friends, "Haters gonna hate." People in situations like yours often do that!

If you read our posts properly you will find that that we are not saying that everyone who doesn't share our experiences are bitter.

We are only saying that you are bitter.

Please read it properly

leggo

And you have made your point, loud and clear. So have I. This argument is now going around in circles.

Now, can you please, for a moment, consider that others may have a differing opinion and are entitled to it. If that bothers you, then you can just forget this topic ever existed. Or you can just continue to derail it in case you read something else that hits a nerve.

SMASH THE UNIONS

leggo wrote: »

Hardly moving the goalposts now lads, your persistent interjections calling me 'bitter' have changed this conversation considerably. Again, psychological evaluations should probably be save for actual psychologists.

But if it makes you sleep better at night thinking that everyone who doesn't share your experiences is just jealous, then go ahead by all means. You can say to your friends, "Haters gonna hate." People in situations like yours often do that!

You are not responding to any of the posts.
1. Where did anyone say their travel experience should be made into a feature length film? Quote the post, if you'd be so kind.

2. Do you really think people only go abroad to make you jealous? Do you realise how self-centred that is?

Like I said, it's all in your head. Maybe you should see a psychologist to work on your problems.

Duggys Housemate

leggo wrote: »

And you have made your point, loud and clear. So have I. This argument is now going around in circles.

Now, can you please, for a moment, consider that others may have a differing opinion and are entitled to it. If that bothers you, then you can just forget this topic ever existed. Or you can just continue to derail it in case you read something else that hits a nerve.

Whose derailing anything? Is this thread not a discussion on your OP? Are you saying you won't countenance disagreement in "your" thread, thats not how it works.

LLU

SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »

Ad hominem. The last resort when the thread isn't going the way you planned.

Seriously mate, go and travel. You'll be glad you did. Ireland will still be here if you want to return.

Er, he never implied he was opposed to travel, or that he wouldn't be glad if he did.

It's people who think that you are inferior just because you haven't or don't want to travel that are the problem.

leggo

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Whose derailing anything? Is this thread not a discussion on your OP? Are you saying you won't countenance disagreement in "your" thread, thats not how it works.

No, but we're at four pages of disagreement now and all points seem have been made repetitively, so must we drum the argument into the ground further or should we allow others to speak? What do you think?

fishy fishy

leggo wrote: »

And you have made your point, loud and clear. So have I. This argument is now going around in circles.

Now, can you please, for a moment, consider that others may have a differing opinion and are entitled to it. If that bothers you, then you can just forget this topic ever existed. Or you can just continue to derail it in case you read something else that hits a nerve.

are you saying that by having an alternative opinion to your own, we are "derailing" the topic

Do you know the function of Boards.ie???

it is to put down opinions on various topics

but in your eyes, you seem to think that by have a different opinion to you, we are "derailing the topic" - maybe you should just not post here and talk into the mirror - that way you will get the answer you want every time.

:D

Duggys Housemate

leggo wrote: »

No, but we're at four pages of disagreement now and all points seem have been made repetitively, so must we drum the argument into the ground further or should we allow others to speak? What do you think?

What does "allow others to speak" mean? Who is stopping these mysterious "others", cant they chime in as they want?

leggo

fishy fishy wrote: »

are you saying that by having an alternative opinion to your own, we are "derailing" the topic

Do you know the function of Boards.ie???

it is to put down opinions on various topics

but in your eyes, you seem to think that by have a different opinion to you, we are "derailing the topic" - maybe you should just not post here and talk into the mirror - that way you will get the right answer every time.

:D

The topic is, as stated quite clearly in the first line of the OP:

"When it comes to travelling the world, what is the line between making a beneficial life decision and just 'running away from your problems'?"

Whether I am bitter or not isn't relevant to that question.

SMASH THE UNIONS

leggo wrote: »

No, but we're at four pages of disagreement now and all points seem have been made repetitively, so must we drum the argument into the ground further or should we allow others to speak? What do you think?

You say you want an intelligent discussion of your OP, but then you repeatedly refuse to respond to any of the points put to you. I made a point about your strawmen arguments in post 65 and again in post 71.

It seems like you only want an echo chamber and will only listen to people who agree with you.

leggo

If you're going to play that card, at least make sure your questions are damning my point. These are stupid questions:

1. Where did anyone say their travel experience should be made into a feature length film? Quote the post, if you'd be so kind.

Clearly being facetious. You're going to need to learn about tone if you want to get into psychology. It's pertaining to your belief that I have to be 'bitter' if I question some people's motives for travelling or how they use that time.

2. Do you really think people only go abroad to make you jealous? Do you realise how self-centred that is?

You're personalising the argument to detract from the subject at hand. That's a strawman.

fishy fishy

leggo,

we can't all be wrong - I think the problem lies with yourself.

SMASH THE UNIONS

leggo wrote: »

Clearly being facetious. You're going to need to learn about tone if you want to get into psychology. It's pertaining to your belief that I have to be 'bitter' if I question some people's motives for travelling or how they use that time.

Then don't be facetious. It doesn't progress your argument. However, I'm glad you acknowledge that it's (yet another) false statement by you.

You're personalising the argument to detract from the subject at hand. That's a strawman.

No, you personalised the argument. You said that people only travel abroad to make you jealous. Very self-centred and egotistical thing to say. As if people will spend over a grand to go to Australia just to make leggo back home in Ireland jealous. Crazy thing to say. The world doesn't revolve around you and I doubt you even entered your friends' thoughts while they were having the time of their lives.

leggo

All...four...of you?

Really, you think four people who agree on the same point can't be wrong? More people have thanked my OP than that...(not that that makes me 'right')

Duggys Housemate

leggo wrote: »

If you're going to play that card, at least make sure your questions are damning my point. These are stupid questions:



Clearly being facetious. You're going to need to learn about tone if you want to get into psychology. It's pertaining to your belief that I have to be 'bitter' if I question some people's motives for travelling or how they use that time.



You're personalising the argument to detract from the subject at hand. That's a strawman.

The entire OP is personal. YOu have created any number of straw men. 30 somethings with no direction who yet managed to live aboard, and remain single. This is hardly my experience, most people who go abroad for work would get more, not less experience. This then is contrasted with the Irish people who drink in Australia, a different generation, and probably a caricature of most Irish emigration.

Having built up your sad straw men, you then ask a loaded question. We're responding to the entire post.

The answer to this question"


"When it comes to travelling the world, what is the line between making a beneficial life decision and just 'running away from your problems'?"

Is, it depends on the person. So that is an unanswerable question. However, I doubt if many young emigrants are running away from problems.

leggo

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

However, I doubt if many young emigrants are running away from problems.

REALLY? The recession and lack of jobs has nothing to do with increased emigration? That's a strong statement...

We're still going around in circles guys. We've all made our points. Let it go.

Duggys Housemate

leggo wrote: »

All...four...of you?

Really, you think four people who agree on the same point can't be wrong? More people have thanked my OP than that...(not that that makes me 'right')

Well, we are eighty percent of the sample.

Duggys Housemate

leggo wrote: »

REALLY? The recession and lack of jobs has nothing to do with increased emigration? That's a strong statement...

Is that what you mean by problems? I thought that running away from "problems" means personal problems. Given that you are unhappy with the 30 year olds who left in the boom you seem to want, again, to pay it both ways.

In any case getting a job abroad to earn experience is not what you claim the Irish emigrant is doing - thats clearly an example of drive and decision making - but you claim that people are just going to get drunk in the beach.

We're still going around in circles guys. We've all made our points. Let it go.

What does that mean? I see your post being systematically destroyed and you are trying to worm your way out of answering by not answering the questions posed. As it happens I have answered your - loaded - questions. This is how debate works.

laoch na mona

no one told me this was the plan

fishy fishy

i figured it out.

Let's say "Roger" sends off for an "American Visa" without telling mum and dad.

He gets his little visa and is very excited.

He shows it to mum and dad.

mum and dad have conversation about letting Roger go off by himself. They cannot let their little precious go so they convince him that staying here is much much better - no need to be having drinks and fun in strange place while learning new cultures - sure that's only running away from your problems.

Roger stays and home and wishes he could go.

When his friends come back on holiday spending their money and telling stores of the fun times, Roger can't take it and becomes bitter and twisted.


Does anyone know Roger??

leggo

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Is that what you mean by problems? I thought that running away from "problems" means personal problems. Given that you are unhappy with the 30 year olds who left in the boom you seem to want, again, to pay it both ways.

Well you thought wrong. That's been a recurring theme with your posts in this discussion.

I'm not unhappy with them. I'm merely suggesting that their travels don't appear to have made their lives any better. Perhaps they weren't productive? Perhaps travelling isn't necessarily the solution to a lack of direction in life?

And, if not, how is it and isn't it constructive? That's the subject. It's not as simple as, "IS TRAVEL GOOD OR BAD??"

In any case getting a job abroad to earn experience is not what you claim the Irish emigrant is doing - thats clearly an example of drive and decision making - but you claim that people are just going to get drunk in the beach.

If you're saying that my conclusions are sweeping, then how is this not? ALL Irish emigrants are showing drive and decision making by travelling? Nobody's just gone away because all of their friends have, or because "this country has gone to the dogs" and they assume Oz will have some kind of an answer? No, if you get on an airplane, it's just overwhelmingly positive. How do you not realise the ****e you're spouting here?

What does that mean? I see your post being systematically destroyed and you are trying to worm your way out of answering by not answering the questions posed. As it happens I have answered your - loaded - questions. This is how debate works.

Well it appears that you don't seem to grasp the nuanced argument at hand here...so I wouldn't be making any declarations of victory on the basis of not being able to understand the point.

Debate works by me stating my point, you stating yours, then everyone else weighing in in the hope of reaching somewhat of a consensus or progressing the argument. I've stated mine, you've stated yours, the process has been repeated ridiculously for a while now, now let's drop it.

leggo

fishy fishy wrote: »

i figured it out.

Let's say "Roger" sends off for an "American Visa" without telling mum and dad.

He gets his little visa and is very excited.

He shows it to mum and dad.

mum and dad have conversation about letting Roger go off by himself. They cannot let their little precious go so they convince him that staying here is much much better - no need to be having drinks and fun in strange place while learning new cultures - sure that's only running away from your problems.

Roger stays and home and wishes he could go.

When his friends come back on holiday spending their money and telling stores of the fun times, Roger can't take it and becomes bitter and twisted.


Does anyone know Roger??

Nice try. But what if Roger was making headway after years of groundwork in his dream job, earning decent money and didn't need to give it all up for the sake of a tan, as he had actual workable options worth exploring at home?

Travelling might work for someone who was still trying to find their way, everyone has to somehow, but it mightn't work for others. I have that respect for people who do so. Your one-way view of life (that 'Roger' needs to travel or is less of a person) doesn't seem to, and that ultimately hampers your argument.

byronbay2

Wow, the trolling is getting outrageous now! Don't let them beat you down Leggo - I think you are making an excellent argument in spite of extreme provocation. I don't think I could have stayed so calm!

fishy fishy

leggo wrote: »

Nice try. But what if Roger was making headway after years of groundwork in his dream job, earning decent money and didn't need to give it all up for the sake of a tan, as he had actual workable options worth exploring at home?

Travelling might work for someone who was still trying to find their way, everyone has to somehow, but it mightn't work for others. I have that respect for people who do so. Your one-way view of life (that 'Roger' needs to travel or is less of a person) doesn't seem to, and that ultimately hampers your argument.

well if roger was that happy, why would be be bragging that he has an amerian visa on hand - if roger is so content, let him give his visa back so that the INS can give it to somebody else. Or could it be that Roger hasn't a clue what he is doing and is jealous of those that have got the gumption to get up and head off.

Ellis Dee

There was probably never as much truth to the adage "travel broadens the mind" as many believed, but there was a lot more truth to it in the past than there is now. That is because getting to and being in faraway places exposed people to so many things that were completely new to them - sights, sounds, tastes, smells, languages, dress styles, architecture, the list is endless. And that inevitably opened their eyes and forced them to think, with a fruitful outcome in some cases.:)

Today, travel is so much easier for one thing. The last time I was in India, it took 6 hours and 20 minutes to get from the intense cold of the Helsinki winter to a Delhi with a temperature close to 30 degrees. How long would it have taken a century ago?:D

Add to that the vast range of media and information to which almost everyone has easy and inexpensive access, the foreign foods and spices that can be bought in most good shops, the ethnic restaurants and even the immigrants that have come to Europe and brought their rich and diverse cultures with them, all of which means that most everyone with an interest in things beyond their own horizon can "travel" all over the world without ever leaving their own home.:cool:

But if people don't want to broaden their minds, no amount of actual travel, no millions of air miles, no number of exotic beaches and no number of exotic massages with happy endings will change them in any essential way.;)

leggo

fishy fishy wrote: »

well if roger was that happy, why would be be bragging that he has an amerian visa on hand - if roger is so content, let him give his visa back so that the INS can give it to somebody else. Or could it be that Roger hasn't a clue what he is doing and is jealous of those that have got the gumption to get up and head off.

Where am I bragging? I'm simply making a point that not travelling isn't always down to lack of options. Thanks to luck and nothing else, I have a good Plan B. So that blows that argument out of the water.

Sometimes, believe it or not, people make different choices to you. And those choices can be good ones sometimes too. That's the smugness that I speak of: the assumption that your way is the only way. I just asked a question. Your reaction to it suggests this question being asked makes you very uncomfortable...

Naid23

Whole thing is personal choice, some people go just to do exactly what they do here but in a warmer climate and are perfectly happy with that and others want more out of travelling. I would be the latter - heading off to Asia for a few months in April next year,not into the whole idea of working in Australia etc but will prob do it for the experience.

I've known people who go to Oz/US/Canada and do nothing but work, drink, sleep and repeat and have been perfectly happy about it and others who absolutely hate it.

Its all about the experience and what your happy to get out of it IMO.

tok9

This argument seems to be going no where.

I've talked to a good few people who have gone travelling and I've never got the sense that they have thought I've wasted my time by not going travelling.

Also both of my sisters have travelled and have come back to great jobs.

I don't get why the reason for travelling is either to run away from your problems or to improve yourself. Can people not just go and enjoy themselves?

fishy fishy

leggo wrote: »

Where am I bragging? I'm simply making a point that not travelling isn't always down to lack of options. Thanks to luck and nothing else, I have a good Plan B. So that blows that argument out of the water.

Sometimes, believe it or not, people make different choices to you. And those choices can be good ones sometimes too. That's the smugness that I speak of: the assumption that your way is the only way. I just asked a question. Your reaction to it suggests this question being asked makes you very uncomfortable...

you seem to be a very mixed up person in relation to making decisions and opinions. I don't think you actually understand yourself what your life pattern is - you seem put down anyone traveling and having fun as a waster as opposed to you and how "sensible" you are.

As I say if you were that content you wouldn't be walking around with a us visa in your pocket.

You need a bit of experience in life - instead of putting others down to big yourself up - use the visa - yes. its only america - the easiest place you can go, but it's a start.

start living, not judging.

leggo

I'm sorry fishy, it's so difficult to take your opinion seriously when you make so many laughably wrong assumptions about my personal life. The visa is in my pocket now, is it? My parents are discouraging me from moving, are they? It's sensible to leave a burgeoning career to see the sun, is it?

The ratio of intelligent replies, both for and against the OP, is picking up now so let's leave others to discuss it, shall we?

Jester252

I would love to a job where I have to travel

I am pie

I'v decided to travel more often on the basis that it statistically reduces the chances that I might ever have to have any sort of real world interaction with the OP, or see them in person, or be in the same square mile as them somewhere in Ireland anytime, ever.

Celebrate travellers, you too are drastically reducing your chances of a chance encounter of the unpleasant kind !

Elba101

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Outside of Australia, where does this phenomenon happen that you all bang on about here?

Anywhere you want!