The Travelling Myth

Defiler Of The Coffin

gara wrote: »

You're missing the point spectacularly if you think I believe the allure of fruit-picking is what brings people to Australia -obviously the grotty hostels and GAA jersey filled bars all feature too but personally, if I'm going to fork out thousands for a holiday, fruit-picking in a deserted field in the backarse of nowhere isn't exactly getting much bang for your buck. I can think of much better holidays to have with the cost that it entails to spend time picking fruit in the southern hemisphere

Grotty hostels and GAA-jersey filled bars you say... how would you know since you've never been there? Maybe you've just got a chip on your shoulder because some are abroad enjoying themselves and you aren't. "Bang for your buck" indeed... you can't just throw money at something and expect everything to be perfect, travelling is what you make of it, some people can spend damn all and enjoy themselves and others can spend a fortune and still be miserable.

gara wrote: »

See, this is precisely what I mean about people's inflated recollections of ridiculously menial events Down Under -'not bad' pay and a bit of 'craic' is the bloody least I'd expect if I'd spent my life savings to spend my day bunging blueberries in a basket -but then again, I wouldn't really find people not wearing shoes especially amazing either

Maybe the exact same experiences for you would have been completely mind-blowing but then I tend to understate things sometimes. What you seem to be missing is that some people need to make money to continue their travelling, fruit-picking gives them a means to do so and also lets them experience another side of life. No-one in their right mind would travel just so they can fruit-pick.

You don't need to spend your life-savings either to travel, that's the whole point of working along the way, making it affordable.

Eve_Dublin

gara wrote: »

Why are you taking this thread personally?

You answer my question first.

Not taking any of it personally as I'm not a young backpacker in Australia and it's them that most of the venom is directed. I'm simply asking why people care so much what they do?

gara

Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »

Maybe you've just got a chip on your shoulder because some are abroad enjoying themselves and you aren't. "Bang for your buck" indeed... you can't just throw money at something and expect everything to be perfect, travelling is what you make of it, some people can spend damn all and enjoy themselves and others can spend a fortune and still be miserable

Making silly assumptions that I must be somehow miserable with a 'chip on my shoulder' because I'm not arsing around Sydney is a ridiculous way to argue your point -I could be there right now with 50 of my friends if I wanted to be but my fundamental point is that I simply don't see the appeal.

Also, where did I insinuate that money was essential to having a happy holiday? But since plane tickets to Australia don't exactly come cheap then I'm simply saying I'd expect a little more than what you referred to as 'alright pay and a bit of craic' for the huge expense that it takes to fly there

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

You answer my question first.
Not taking any of it personally as I'm not a young backpacker in Australia and it's them that most of the venom is directed. I'm simply asking why people care so much what they do?

Very mature but I'll bite.. I don't think anyone is especially 'upset' Eve, I think they're just discussing different views about a topical issue on a discussion board

Eve_Dublin

gara wrote: »

Very mature but I'll bite.. I don't think anyone is especially 'upset' ver leaveEve, I think they're just discussing different views about a topical issue on a discussion board

Okey dokey.

Edit: Not necessarily you but there's some posters with quite strong views on this and I'm simply asking why they hold such strong views on this topic when it doesn't concern them.

In my experience, I've heard of a few people going over to Oz and coming back a week later. Wasn't for them but I also know of a huge amount of people trying to extend their visas because they love it so much. Can't be as bad as some people make out if young people continue to go there.

Defiler Of The Coffin

gara wrote: »

Making silly assumptions that I must be somehow miserable with a 'chip on my shoulder' because I'm not arsing around Sydney is a ridiculous way to argue your point -I could be there right now with 50 of my friends if I wanted to be but my fundamental point is that I simply don't see the appeal.

Also, where did I insinuate that money was essential to having a happy holiday? But since plane tickets to Australia don't exactly come cheap then I'm simply saying I'd expect a little more than what you referred to as 'alright pay and a bit of craic' for the huge expense that it takes to fly there

Fine, we get it, the whole "Australia thing" isn't for you. But then you could spend £1,000,000 to be flown to the moon and be disappointed because it's just a load of dust everywhere. The enjoyment you get from a place isn't pegged to the price you pay for getting there. You have to make it happen yourself.

What I referred to as 'alright pay and a bit of craic' did not comprise the whole holiday. You don't go there and have to "arse around Sydney" if you don't want to. If you want to well and good but there's a whole world there waiting to be discovered. You seem to think Australia is all about just wearing GAA shirts and drinking.

kowloon

Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »

Fine, we get it, the whole "Australia thing" isn't for you. But then you could spend £1,000,000 to be flown to the moon and be disappointed because it's just a load of dust everywhere.

I have to admit, it was a bit of a disappointment.

VEN

gara wrote: »

If you told these same people to pick fruit in Termonfeckin for ten hours a day, they'd laugh at you but apparently it's a 'life-changing experience' if you take out an enormous loan to do it in a Darwin desert!

they'd tell you the drinking money is better down there.
make a lot o money but somehow come home with not a lot o money, great

average hero

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Really? People who go on stags to Amsterdam would say they're "well travelled"? Huh! Wouldn't have thought so...that hasn't been my experience. Usually those people would say they've been to Amsterdam for a stag and got smashed...

By the way, tenner bets you'll end up getting hammered in Russia at some point! And got forbid, you might even have some fun!

Makes me laugh at how many people are so upset at how others choose to live their lives and spend their money. Why do you care so much?

You misinterpreted what I meant by the examples. What I was trying to illustrate was that people who go to destinations with the main activity being getting smashed, they don't gain all of the benefits of travelling to different countries and learning the culture IN MY OPINION ONLY.

And you would win that bet by the way, I will get hammered once or twice alright, but I will also endeavor to learn a few words, and enjoy the local culture which I don't think many young Irish students/people do when they travel abroad with friends!

Loads of people are just going to Australia with mates for a year, and in my opinion I would rather travel to somewhere with a completely different culture, language, and lifestyle to our own.

Don't get so heated about it, I was only stating MY OPINION

CiaranC

Look at all the bitter jobsworths. They cant stand that other people do more with their lives than them so they pretend everyone who travels just goes to Australia to drink. Pathetic.

leggo

CiaranC wrote: »

Look at all the bitter jobsworths. They cant stand that other people do more with their lives than them so they pretend everyone who travels just goes to Australia to drink. Pathetic.

I'm actually convinced now that you agree with the OP and you're pretending to be a troll for the other side to prove the point of how annoying some people who travel can be. There's no other way someone could be thick enough to call going on an extended holiday, 'doing more with your life'.

Priori

CiaranC wrote: »

Look at all the bitter jobsworths. They cant stand that other people do more with their lives than them so they pretend everyone who travels just goes to Australia to drink. Pathetic.

Jumping to that rather aggressive and bitter sounding conclusion could be considered pathetic too. Why not park the insults and try to take their point with slightly more objectivity?

CiaranC

leggo wrote: »

I'm actually convinced now that you agree with the OP and you're pretending to be a troll for the other side to prove the point of how annoying some people who travel can be. There's no other way someone could be thick enough to call going on an extended holiday, 'doing more with your life'.

What are you doing with your life leggo? Share with us your blueprint for living.

books4sale

Fabulous thread lads, fabulous I tells ya, keep it up.

World travel, who would have thought it would create so much debate?

Now if it was up to me, I would lock down all the airports and ferries, how dare anyone wander beyond the borders of our fair isle.

Stay at home ye effers and stop having more fun than me. :pac:

leggo

CiaranC wrote: »

What are you doing with your life leggo? Share with us your blueprint for living.

I travel a lot then use the massive benefits gained from this to become a troll on popular Irish websites. I tell ya, without globe-trotting these fantastic life options would've never been possible! :pac:

CiaranC

leggo wrote: »

I travel a lot then use the massive benefits gained from this to become a troll on popular Irish websites. I tell ya, without globe-trotting these fantastic life options would've never been possible! :pac:

So what should people do instead of fooling themselves with the travel myth? What do you do instead?

leggo

They can do what they want, Ciaran. You've become so caught up in your need to troll that you fail to realise I'm not even saying that travelling is a bad thing. I'm asking when is travelling constructive and when is it just wasting your life. Now can you please grasp that point and stop trolling my thread and looking for arguments?

books4sale

CiaranC wrote: »

So what should people do instead of fooling themselves with the travel myth? What do you do instead?

Make money...and sh*tloads of it

Mardy Bum

leggo wrote: »

They can do what they want, Ciaran. You've become so caught up in your need to troll that you fail to realise I'm not even saying that travelling is a bad thing. I'm asking when is travelling constructive and when is it just wasting your life. Now can you please grasp that point and stop trolling my thread and looking for arguments?

Travelling is wasting your life if you are going around with no qualifications for years on end (20-30) and also not gaining any decent work experience. Otherwise it is extremely beneficial especially if attempted by oneself instead of with "the lads".

CiaranC

leggo wrote: »

They can do what they want, Ciaran. You've become so caught up in your need to troll that you fail to realise I'm not even saying that travelling is a bad thing. I'm asking when is travelling constructive and when is it just wasting your life. Now can you please grasp that point and stop trolling my thread and looking for arguments?

Its not your thread. Its clear what you think of people who travel. What do you do with your life instead then?

Mardy Bum

books4sale wrote: »

Make money...and sh*tloads of it

This is not directed at you by the way but if money is the only thing someone cares about they will either end up broke a la Sean Quinn, or developmentally or emotionally stunted.

CiaranC

books4sale wrote: »

Make money...and sh*tloads of it

I make plenty of money. How do you think people afford to travel the world without making money?

leggo

CiaranC wrote: »

Its not your thread. Its clear what you think of people who travel. What do you do with your life instead then?

No I'm directing that very much at the loud minority such as yourself who clearly gain nothing by travelling but feel the need to get smug and uppity about it nonetheless. Follow me on Twitter if you want to know more about my life, this thread has nothing to do with it and I don't fancy giving you ammo to derail it further because you can't deal with the argument at hand :pac:

CiaranC

leggo wrote: »

No I'm directing that very much at the loud minority such as yourself who clearly gain nothing by travelling but feel the need to get smug and uppity about it nonetheless. Follow me on Twitter if you want to know more about my life, this thread has nothing to do with it and I don't fancy giving you ammo to derail it further because you can't deal with the argument at hand :pac:

Whats your twitter then? Im intrigued. I might base a book on your mode of living in Dublin 15. I can supplant the entire tourism industry at the stroke of a pen

CiaranC

Never mind, I had a look at your post history. Seeya leggo.

previous user

leggo wrote: »

TLDR: When it comes to travelling the world, what is the line between making a beneficial life decision and just 'running away from your problems'?

There's a notion in Ireland, and elsewhere to be fair, that travelling the world is an essential part of everyone's development. That you are somehow mentally stumped if you haven't had a Christmas Day on the beach.

The collective 'life plan' for most Irish people goes, in varying order: go to school, start drinking, get a driver's licence, complete Leaving Cert, go to college, travel, come home, get a job, have a baby, get a mortgage, marry, retire, play with your grandchildren, then die.

Don't get me wrong, I like broadening my horizons so I have no problem with the idea, in theory. I remember, even when I was around 18, wrecking an ex's head on a holiday by booking us on a 3-day sight-seeing tour where we could see not one, but TWO, of the wonders of the world. I'm mad for a bit of history and there's nothing like standing in the spot of a historical event and imagining the events that have gone on there to give you a perspective of the broader scale of existence. All of a sudden your own daily drama seems to matter less as you get an idea of what life is really about.

In fact, I even plan on living abroad at some stage in the not-too-distant future. Part of me hopes that it doesn't come to that and that I can make it work in Ireland first, but I'm fortunate enough to have connections elsewhere that give me a great (and increasingly likely) Plan B to fall back on should that not happen. So I'm not anti-emigration either. Some of the most successful people I know made a fantastic life for themselves when they realised that Ireland just wasn't for them, and I get the same feeling myself quite regularly.

But, at the same time, I also see a lot of people just...running away. People who are otherwise unemployable due to past poor life decisions, lost and looking for direction in life. People who move halfway across the world and then do the exact same things as they did over here (i.e. get twisted drunk and act the idiot). The only difference is that they have their top off in the Facebook pics nowadays.

Similarly, nearly every person that I know and have met that is in their early/mid-30's and is still single, in a job that they hate and lacking direction in life, is a person who spent a large portion of their 20's travelling the world. They will bore you to tears with tales of how 'wild' those years were, and how much it benefited them, but what do they have to show for it? Indeed, it sounds increasingly as if they're trying to convince themselves, more than me, that these years benefited them when they speak of it.

So what is the line? When does travelling stop being productive and start being just 'killing time and getting a tan before you die'? What's the right way to use seeing the world as part of a productive life? Should every person, ideally, travel and see the world or could one be a happy, well-rounded individual having never left their own country?

I've got two part-time jobs and I'm studying at the moment, but if I won the lottery I would leave tomorrow I would travel for a number of years. before, I admit it probably would have been to get away from my problems, now though I think I would just like to see the world before I regret not doing so.

leggo

All that tracking experience in the outback has served you well Ciaran, you're a mighty creep these days . Go on...

Eve_Dublin

average hero wrote: »

You misinterpreted what I meant by the examples. What I was trying to illustrate was that people who go to destinations with the main activity being getting smashed, they don't gain all of the benefits of travelling to different countries and learning the culture IN MY OPINION ONLY.

And you would win that bet by the way, I will get hammered once or twice alright, but I will also endeavor to learn a few words, and enjoy the local culture which I don't think many young Irish students/people do when they travel abroad with friends!

Loads of people are just going to Australia with mates for a year, and in my opinion I would rather travel to somewhere with a completely different culture, language, and lifestyle to our own.

Don't get so heated about it, I was only stating MY OPINION

I'm not in the least bit heated as I'd be very much that kind of traveller. Before I went to South America, I took a course in Spanish before I left, so I could at least have some form of conversation with the locals and I didn't spend all my time in the hostel getting pissed. I made an effort. Well, as much effort as a woman travelling alone can make in a foreign continent without putting herself in danger, so I had to stay on the "gringo trail" to some extent.

Fair enough and fair play to you. Hope it works out for you. I know people living here in Spain for a long time with very little Spanish. No interest in integrating whatsoever, so I respect anyone who does.

There's all kinds of travelling though and I don't think we can all be put in the same category.

Eve_Dublin

leggo wrote: »

They can do what they want, Ciaran. You've become so caught up in your need to troll that you fail to realise I'm not even saying that travelling is a bad thing. I'm asking when is travelling constructive and when is it just wasting your life. Now can you please grasp that point and stop trolling my thread and looking for arguments?

Leggo, you're question is a little biased. I never saw my travelling as "constructive", I saw it as enjoyment. Can I ask you a question? Do you believe travelling has to be constructive otherwise it's a waste of time?

I suppose it comes down to the fact that although I came home from my year away, I'd a great year. I really, really enjoyed myself and have great memories because of it. That, in my own personal opinion, is not a waste of time. That's time very well spent, in fact.

books4sale

previous user wrote: »

but if I won the lottery I would leave tomorrow I would travel for a number of years..

Imagine living out of a bag for a few years, moving from place to place like a tramp, wandering aimlessly, never really making friends just here today/gone tomorrow type people, having no structure to your day, not being intellectually challenged. Eventually the grind will break you down so you don't even care about your appearance.

To be honest sounds like a nightmare, how do I know?

I don't need to brag about my experiences, their mine and they have made me the person I am today. More grounded, settled and successful.

By all means go for a few months, but years, I don't recommend it.

SMASH THE UNIONS

Forget travelling and meeting new people. Wrestling, darts and reality TV are the best ways to waste away your life.

Isn't that right, leggo?

Run_to_da_hills

The far away hills are always greener, so i thought.

I would recommend everyone to travel particularly at a younger age before they get ensnared with the hassles of later life.

Been around the world twice having lived in US and Australia on and off for 4 years. Couldn't and wouldn't do it again though.

leggo

Ignoring the obvious troll post. You're not even trying to keep it subtle anymore lads. Glad to see the OP touched a nerve so much you're now going to such lengths of research.

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

[
Leggo, you're question is a little biased. I never saw my travelling as "constructive", I saw it as enjoyment. Can I ask you a question? Do you believe travelling has to be constructive otherwise it's a waste of time?

Why is everybody placing so much emphasis on my own opinion? It's just one opinion within the construct of an entire discussion. I mean, jaysus, are people that insecure that they can't stand the fact that there's someone out there who may or may not see them as a bit of a waster? And they must tease out every aspect of his point, research him and try and find one small hole, just to prove to themselves that they're not? Cop on lads!

My own opinion is that I don't just have a year of my life to write off for the sake of 'enjoyment', and there's nothing stopping me from enjoying myself here. But at the same time, I'm always open to review my opinion, which is why I asked the question. So far, no, there have been a couple of decent posts but everything I thought appears to be true. So far, at least...

average hero

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

I'm not in the least bit heated as I'd be very much that kind of traveller. Before I went to South America, I took a course in Spanish before I left, so I could at least have some form of conversation with the locals and I didn't spend all my time in the hostel getting pissed. I made an effort. Well, as much effort as a woman travelling alone can make in a foreign continent without putting herself in danger, so I had to stay on the "gringo trail" to some extent.

Fair enough and fair play to you. Hope it works out for you. I know people living here in Spain for a long time with very little Spanish. No interest in integrating whatsoever, so I respect anyone who does.

There's all kinds of travelling though and I don't think we can all be put in the same category.

Fair play to you - I have a lot of respect for what you did. You're right, there are all kinds of travelling. I think the more effort you put in with the differences in the world, the more you gain

Duggys Housemate

leggo wrote: »

My own opinion is that I don't just have a year of my life to write off for the sake of 'enjoyment', and there's nothing stopping me from enjoying myself here. But at the same time, I'm always open to review my opinion, which is why I asked the question.

Of course you have a year of your life to waste on "enjoyment" by going abroad, whats so important about your job in Ireland, or any particular year?

You keeping setting up straw men and knocking them down. Apparently it is all larks, this emigration. Plenty of Irish graduates go to the UK, or the US for experience, which benefits them when they come back, if they do. Some leave because there they want to escape the dole, which is more aspirational and enterprising than people who stay at home. In fact you specifically said this was "running away from problems" in your reply to me.

So far, no, there have been a couple of decent posts but everything I thought appears to be true. So far, at least...

You don't have a mind worth changing. You remind me of a bar fly in a village in rural Ireland, complaining about the people who leave to get jobs in Dublin, and come back talking about their experiences. Shure, you convince yourself, they are running away from their problems, just going on the lash. You see no reason to leave, you don't have time for mind broadening in Dublin, and they're all on the piss anyway.

leggo

Okay, you're talking absolute ****e as usual...but would you care to answer the point above that? Why does it bother you that someone you'll never meet has an opinion you, frankly, are incapable of changing, much as you try?

Duggys Housemate

leggo wrote: »

Okay, you're talking absolute ****e as usual...but would you care to answer the point above that? Why does it bother you that someone you'll never meet has an opinion you, frankly, are incapable of changing, much as you try?

I don't really care about changing your opinion, dogmatic opinions are never changed, I am interested in proving my opinion correct for myself, and neutrals.

This is debate forum, you should expect disagreement in threads, otherwise don't start them. What were you expecting, complete agreement? You don't understand debate, apparently.

Eve_Dublin

leggo wrote: »

Why is everybody placing so much emphasis on my own opinion? It's just one opinion within the construct of an entire discussion. I mean, jaysus, are people that insecure that they can't stand the fact that there's someone out there who may or may not see them as a bit of a waster? And they must tease out every aspect of his point, research him and try and find one small hole, just to prove to themselves that they're not? Cop on lads!

My own opinion is that I don't just have a year of my life to write off for the sake of 'enjoyment', and there's nothing stopping me from enjoying myself here. But at the same time, I'm always open to review my opinion, which is why I asked the question. So far, no, there have been a couple of decent posts but everything I thought appears to be true. So far, at least...

I'm just giving you MY opinion. Didn't disrespect you, just answered you and gave you my opinion. You shouldn't post your opinions if you don't want to hear differing opinions, in fairness. That's all I'm doing

I don't understand the crankiness there, Leggo...I'm simply replying to the question you asked in your OP. That's the idea of these threads is it not? Other things have been touched upon as well..

books4sale

An opinion on anything dosen't have any credibility unless you have experienced or taken part in that thing for yourself, then one is entitled to an opinion.

Having an opinion based on other people's experiences is just living in a bubble basing all ones own thoughts and experiences on those of others.

Its not living life, its living a second hand life.

I think this is why reality based TV shows and even the internet are popular with a certain demographic of the population, these people live life safe, never experiencing anything of any depth, only living life through the eyes of others from the comfort of their living room never touching, smelling or feeling the experience, just empty shells building all their opinions and knowledge from a computer or TV screen.

A mopdern form of brain washing it could be said.

leggo

@Duggys Housemate

No, I do. But you seem particularly obsessed with me, so I'm illustrating a point.

Let's put it this way: I remember before making a topic on here asking was it hypocritical for overweight people to lecture smokers about damaging their health.

There were a bunch of replies from people saying that some weight problems were caused by genuine reasons etc and so on. It was pointed out that that's a negligible minority and none of the people arguing this could admit that they themselves were suffering from these problems. The reality? They wanted to use this small minority because the topic obviously touched a nerve and they didn't want it discussed, at all, period, even though it was a valid topic about a growing problem that's worthy of discussion.

Here, I'm acknowledging from the OP that travel can be massively beneficial, but pointing to the times it may not be and asking "what's the line?" And you're using only the positive examples as an excuse to validate ALL examples of travel, while being extremely elusive of your own circumstances* (and yet demanding more and more personal info from me). So perhaps this is your way of trying to shut down a discussion that is a little too close to home for your liking, that might make you realise truths you'd be better off not realising. One troll has accused me so far of making a 'personal attack' in the OP. Interesting that...

If you understood debate yourself, you'd realise that we don't need to make our points again and again. We'd say our piece, respect our right to a difference of opinion, and allow others a say.

But I can see that I'm proving a distraction now in my own thread, dragging the trolls from under their bridges repeatedly. So I'll bow out and leave it for others to discuss constructively. I think my stance has been made abundantly clear by now.

*I should note that I also respect the likes of Eve, who have been fully accountable and given plenty of real experience, even if they're arguing on the opposing side to me.

Dr.Sanchez

I finished school at 16, worked in a bar full time until i was 19 and then did the whole Australia thing. When I came home I said I would never travel again until I had a decent education. Not that it was a bad experience, I lived/worked on a small island on the Barrier Reef for most of the time. I got to do things many people don't get the chance to do in life.

So here I am, 23 years old, moving to London next week to start an undergraduate course. If I make it through it, and have enough money left over, I'll do a masters too... Then travel a bit more and fully appreciate it as many people don't.

Duggys Housemate

leggo wrote: »

@Duggys Housemate

No, I do. But you seem particularly obsessed with me, so I'm illustrating a point.

Not in the least "obsessed" by you, it is your thread and you are the only person making your point, so I need to reply to you since nobody else is on your side.

Let's put it this way: I remember before making a topic on here asking was it hypocritical for overweight people to lecture smokers about damaging their health.

There were a bunch of replies from people saying that some weight problems were caused by genuine reasons etc and so on. It was pointed out that that's a negligible minority and none of the people arguing this could admit that they themselves were suffering from these problems. The reality? They wanted to use this small minority because the topic obviously touched a nerve and they didn't want it discussed, at all, period, even though it was a valid topic about a growing problem that's worthy of discussion.

I don't see the reasoning here. My guess is the vast majority of people who travel from Ireland benefit from it, rather than the reverse as you imply. Your argument is the opposite to here, you point to a minority - a relatively small minority - who travel in groups abroad and tar everybody else.

Here, I'm acknowledging from the OP that travel can be massively beneficial, but pointing to the times it may not be and asking "what's the line?" And you're using only the positive examples as an excuse to validate ALL examples of travel, while being extremely elusive of your own circumstances* (and yet demanding more and more personal info from me).

I never asked for any info from you. Thats the weird thing about this thread, you make up the opposing arguments nobody makes. I already said in this thread that I have lived in the US and the UK, where I now live. Sum total of eight years abroad, most of my working life. In the interim I was in Ireland for a while, I left for a job and for a romance. Happy?

And most Irish people I know, and I don't hang around with Irish groups since I emigrated on my own, are sober hard workers. In London you meet an Irish nurse, a doctor, an accountant, an IT worker as you work around, or go to meetings, and none of them seem drunk, or unhappy, or running away from problems.

So perhaps this is your way of trying to shut down a discussion that is a little too close to home for your liking, that might make you realise truths you'd be better off not realising. One troll has accused me so far of making a 'personal attack' in the OP. Interesting that...

Nobody is closing down an argument, nor do I have an "truths" worth realising. I earn more money and have got more experience from travel, and seen more of the world. That a pretty obvious thing to happen if you leave a small nation, just as it would be if you left a village to go to a city.

If you understood debate yourself, you'd realise that we don't need to make our points again and again. We'd say our piece, respect our right to a difference of opinion, and allow others a say.

Say you making your point again. What you mean by your statement is that nobody should dare reply to you.

But I can see that I'm proving a distraction now in my own thread, dragging the trolls from under their bridges repeatedly. So I'll bow out and leave it for others to discuss constructively. I think my stance has been made abundantly clear by now.

Nobody is trolling here, as far as I can see.

*I should note that I also respect the likes of Eve, who have been fully accountable and given plenty of real experience, even if they're arguing on the opposing side to me.

Thats nice of you.

SMASH THE UNIONS

@Duggy';s Housemate
I think you hit the nail on the head. Leggo probably comes from a rural background and has a very parochial outlook on the world. Anybody who leaves the village to proactively better their lives and gain some wordly knowledge is seen as a "traitor" by the bar-flies left behind.

Life is short and time passes quicker than you realise. Before you know it, you are forty years old with a mortgage and kids, with only one week's holiday a year in the Costa del Sol to look forward to. To anybody on the fence, drop everything and travel the world NOW! You will come back a different person. There is nothing worse than living with regrets and wondering "what if". Nobody wishes on their deathbed that they worked more.

I see bitterness got the better of the OP and he cowardly left the thread rather than take on board constructive criticism and advice. Unfortunately, people like him are a hopeless case. Wrestling is fake btw.

Eve_Dublin

I think we're also mixing up emigration and travelling as well.

I live in Spain and I've built a life for myself here. I don't really see this as travelling anymore tbh. I've done some travelling from here but is living in a different country the same as travelling?

gara

books4sale wrote: »

An opinion on anything dosen't have any credibility unless you have experienced or taken part in that thing for yourself, then one is entitled to an opinion.

Having an opinion based on other people's experiences is just living in a bubble basing all ones own thoughts and experiences on those of others.

Its not living life, its living a second hand life.

What an absolutely ridiculous and fundamentally flawed concept -by your reasoning (and I'm reticent to even refer to it as that) Christopher Hitchens' thoughts on religion are completely invalid because he's never been a Muslim -he's never been or experienced being Muslim yet his opinions are some of the most highly-esteemed in the world.

People don't need to take drugs to know they aren't for them, they don't need to eat liver to know they'll hate it and nor do people need to travel the world in order to validate their thoughts on the matter and to think otherwise is just astoundingly arrogant

LimGal

[/QUOTE]People don't need to take drugs to know they aren't for them, they don't need to eat liver to know they'll hate it and nor do people need to travel the world in order to validate their thoughts on the matter and to think otherwise is just astoundingly arrogant[/QUOTE]

You seem like great craic.

Can we hang out together.

gara

LimGal wrote: »

You seem like great craic.Can we hang out together.

You don't. So no.

LimGal

gara wrote: »

You don't. So no.

Ah go on.

SMASH THE UNIONS

Gara seems to be an armchair expert on everything, even though he admits he has no experience of it.

theholyghost

I lived in two different European countries for a few months, studying the languages and mixing with locals. I really went native in that I wasn't trekking off to Machu Picchu I was doing the mundane things like going to the supermarket, taking the tram, going to bars and realising a bar in Germany is a lot like one in Ireland, dating locals and discovering girls are mental regardless of nationality.

What did I learn? Living somewhere isn't like being on holiday somewhere, sure it is an interesting experience and the weather might be better but ultimately you're living in the suburbs of Madrid or Cologne doing suburban day to day things. It's not much different to Ireland except everything is a little harder with the language and you don't have the "easy" support network of friends and family you do back home.

I'm very glad I did it but it made me realise that I'd probably rather stay in my own country and have nice holidays abroad. It does broaden the horizons-- at least you get to know how other countries work and bust some myths about Germans being ruthlessly efficient and the trains always running on time etc.

I think it might be very different if you go to somewhere like Australia and immeadiately have the "in" of already knowing some people there and don't have any langauge barrier to contend with. Not everyone I know who went to OZ is a scumbag!

I think what I'm saying is there is a big difference between going off backpacking somewhere and actually living somewhere, the former is a glorified holiday, the latter if a glorified being in Ireland!

dr.bollocko

mod:

Smash the unions banned.