How Serious is This ????

kub

Thanks KoolKid, I did not know they were associated with Action.

KoolKid

Really?
Common knowledge ,I thought. Then again maybe its just I know most of them.

kub

I'd imagine that we are spoilt for choice down here, or perhaps a little insulated.

Luckycharms_74

Just came across this thread guys.
I have a phone watch system. Its about 4 years old and as we dont have a physical phone line we have a little Aerial ( I assume its the GSM box ?) internally to communicate with the call centre.
Anyone out there know if the phone watch system can be jammed by GSM blockers.

Thunderbird2

Luckycharms_74 wrote: »

Just came across this thread guys.
I have a phone watch system. Its about 4 years old and as we dont have a physical phone line we have a little Aerial ( I assume its the GSM box ?) internally to communicate with the call centre.
Anyone out there know if the phone watch system can be jammed by GSM blockers.

Yes it can but Eircom PW will tell you it can't .

KoolKid

At the moment any system using GSM can be janmed.
Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying.

Luckycharms_74

So if I were to replace my curreent system with a Radio Frequency one. Could any of the existing sensors / door contacts be used from the phone watch one with the new one ??

Thunderbird2

Yes

KoolKid

The radio replaces the digi not the alarm. Everything with your alarm stays the same. Ask your monitoring company the simple question, can my GSM digi be jammed? If they say no ask can they give you a written guarantee saying that.

Luckycharms_74

KoolKid wrote: »

The radio replaces the digi not the alarm. Everything with your alarm stays the same. Ask your monitoring company the simple question, can my GSM digi be jammed? If they say no ask can they give you a written guarantee saying that.

Yeah I will call Phone watch and ask the question. If they don't offer the guarantee I will have to look for another alarm company to make the changes to my system.
Any good recommendations out there ??

KoolKid

Any licenced company can monitor your alarm.
Take a look at the Suppliers & Installers sticky.

TakeaBowSon

Bit more in the Irish Times today regarding the Jammers...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0705/1224319428203.html

altor

The amount of calls I have received on this subject this week is amazing.
They are talking about a GSM being jammed. Not the alarm system itself.
It only applies to people who have a GSM on there system.

KoolKid

This is the bit that amazes me
"which also adhered to the State regulations"
When are they going to take these off the standards & make the insurance industry take notice. There are Guards out there still insisting on GSM units for gun safes.:eek: When you ask about radio they know nothing about it.

altor

I dont think they will ever do that. There are different types of GSM on the market so taking it out of the standard is not an option.

With the likes of a polling dual com or the new HKC one to be released that has the polling it will make them more secure to combat the blocker than on the standard GSM which the monitoring station has no way of knowing what is happening till it is the next day. The main issue will be the polling time and the response time. These times will have to be brought down as low as possible.

Radio itself is the way to go but how long before that gets blocked too, only time will tell.

KoolKid

My main problem with polling is I don't think it will ever be taken serious as an attack. Imagine the poor controller in a station with 1000 of these on new years eve or the likes when every network fails. Only this afternoon there was serious issues with Vodafones network in South Dublin.

altor

That is why they come with a world sim. Roams to every network.

KoolKid

That would solve today's problems, but not new years eve. Between 1030 & 0030 on new years eve should every line fault on a PSTN with GSM get Garda Response ?

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

That would solve today's problems, but not new years eve. Between 1030 & 0030 on new years eve should every line fault on a PSTN with GSM get Garda Response ?

It would be rare to get all the networks down and the PSTN at the same time. Even on new years eve.
Should they be given Garda Response, yes they should if that is what is being paid for.

KoolKid

New years eve is a forgone conclusion that networks will be over congested. Polling will fail . There is nothing unusual about that , it happens every year.
PSTN lines are also congested at that time. But In a case where networks are known to be over capacity I don't think Garda resources should be wasted on a line fault. Especially on a busy night for crime & disturbance either way.

Radio is not subject to these problems.

I beleive GSM will be removed from the standards at some stage. With all the publicity its getting hopefully sooner rather than later. Knowing this country it will be only after some insurance company has to pay out on a big claim because of a GSM failure.
Does anyone know for sure if the guards have an agrees policy that missing polls & a line fault will be treated as a verified alarm?

Thunderbird2

Didn't think they'd call out for a missed poll or line fault

KoolKid

Can't see it happening TBH.

TakeaBowSon

altor wrote: »

KoolKid wrote: »

That would solve today's problems, but not new years eve. Between 1030 & 0030 on new years eve should every line fault on a PSTN with GSM get Garda Response ?

It would be rare to get all the networks down and the PSTN at the same time. Even on new years eve.
Should they be given Garda Response, yes they should if that is what is being paid for.

The Gardai policy states that a dual path fail (PSTN+GSM), (as is the case with anyone with a CSL Dualcom unit) unit will not receive a Garda response.It is not a verified alarm and will only receive a key holder response at best. This policy is different to the UK where such a dual path failure will receive a police response.However such a response in the UK will incur a call out charge to the owner of the premises in the event of it being a false alarm.

KoolKid

That's what I thought. Thanks for the clarification.

Thunderbird2

And that's the reason I don't waste money on monitoring .your not guaranteed a call out in this country. Neighbours get a text and have keys ... Response time would also be quicker compared to a monitored alarm . An idea would be to have the system text key holders directly upon 1 sensor activating and contact the monitoring station when 2 or more sensors are activated .

KoolKid

My take on monitoring is this. Most of the time its going to be key holder response & they sort it out between them. With IP access becoming more popular, you can check it yourself , disarm it yourself & rearm it yourself knowing everything is OK.
I consider it money well spent for panic alarm response . Say you spend €200 a year for 10 years, that's €2000 . In the 10th year you find yourself in a panic situation that saves your or another member of your family because you got that immediate response when it was needed. Would you consider that money well spent.? I know I would.

Thunderbird2

KoolKid wrote: »

My take on monitoring is this. Most of the time its going to be key holder response & they sort it out between them. With IP access becoming more popular, you can check it yourself , disarm it yourself & rearm it yourself knowing everything is OK.
I consider it money well spent for panic alarm response . Say you spend €200 a year for 10 years, that's €2000 . In the 10th year you find yourself in a panic situation that saves your or another member of your family because you got that immediate response when it was needed. Would you consider that money well spent.? I know I would.

No as they ring the house first . ( Phonewatch anyway) . Still would get a faster response from the neighbours

KoolKid

They ring the house first on a panic alarm activation ???
That would not be standard procedure.
Get a new monitoring station so.
Most times you will get Garda response within a few minutes without any notification.
(Trust me I know, Ive set off a few in my time.:)) What is the point in alerting someone threatening you ? If you say everything is all right how do they know if its under duress or not. A phone ringing in a panic situation would make things worse.

Thunderbird2

I don't have monitoring ... But I know phone watch will always make contact with you before sending the emergency services ... It says so on their site ...

KoolKid

I don't think that refers to panic alarms.