Hostel in Oz bans all Irish from staying there

Sonics2k

I think that's an over-reaction honestly.

He refuses to take them in based on their known behaviour and attitude, not because they are Irish. It's two very different things.

If anything, I hope places like this continue. He's imposed the ban on Irish people because they are trashing his business, showing up late and drunk to work.

Maybe if places like this actually enforce it, then the amount of people acting like this will drop drastically and he'll start taking people again.

Duggys Housemate

Sonics2k wrote: »

I think that's an over-reaction honestly.

He refuses to take them in based on their known behaviour and attitude, not because they are Irish. It's two very different things.

If anything, I hope places like this continue. He's imposed the ban on Irish people because they are trashing his business, showing up late and drunk to work.

Maybe if places like this actually enforce it, then the amount of people acting like this will drop drastically and he'll start taking people again.

He is imposing a ban on Irish people, who may not have been at his premise before. There are no anti-discrimination laws which stop you from banning an actual person, or group, who have themselves caused problems before. This is a ban on a nationality.

In any case you seem happy to be discriminated against if you ever go back to Australia.

ChubbyHubby

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

He is imposing a ban on Irish people, who may not have been at his premise before. There are no anti-discrimination laws which stop you from banning an actual person, or group, who have themselves caused problems before. This is a ban on a nationality.

Ok, if 8 out of 10 irish backpackers who stayed in the hostel are often drunk and exhibits anti social behaviour when intoxicated, shows up for work with a hangover or don't show, don't work as hard...what do you suggest the owner do? Just put up with it? Like the way you people put up with scumbags over here? How very politically correct and tolerant of you. The thing is, the majority of the young going over there shouldn't be acting like that to begin with. They shouldn't be acting like that over here either.

twinQuins

So the solution is to punish the minority who didn't do anything wrong?

You don't see the problem with that?

Feathers

LordSmeg wrote: »

You cant treat all groups the same when one group is costing you money.

Its not racist as such I dont think, its changing your target market to benefit the business.

'Changing your target market' is trying to attract business from a particular group, not barring people who don't fall into that group. & the point is, thinking of individuals as a group because they have the same race or ethnicity is racism — that's the only thing that's making them a group to begin with.

Sonics2k wrote: »

But it's not racism.

The guy who owns the place is from Dublin. I am from Cork. I lived in Australia for years and I saw the behaviour for myself. Bondi Beach in Sydney get's destroyed by predominately Irish groups every year.

Lots of articles on the 'glass ceiling' in the employment talk about women managers being less likely to promote women — it's still sexism. Discrimination is about the people who you are judging, not whether or not you fall into the category (that just makes it worse to be honest!).

Sonics2k wrote: »

I think that's an over-reaction honestly.

He refuses to take them in based on their known behaviour and attitude, not because they are Irish. It's two very different things.

It is very much two different things but he is doing the second: he's assuming a behaviour and attitude based on the fact that they are Irish. Are you telling me that if you were to stay in the hostel you would trash the place? Because that's what he knows about you, because you're Irish (I presume! )

Apelles

Has it ever really been that much different, or is it just a case of 'same old, same old'?

My dad went to England from here in the fifties with a gang of lads from the town, your typical irish navvys, all on the shovel, working hard all day, then pissing it up against the wall all night.
Their mission in England  . . . to rebuild much of war torn London,  build a whole new infrastructure, new satellite towns & city's to rehouse the indigenous london population that had been displaced by the blitzkrieg. His & subsequent generations of Irish labourers  more than succeeded in their endeavour to help build a new britain methinks.
However, he often use to regal me with yarns about the drink taken & the fights that ensued, the wrecking of lodgings & bars & the runners they done, the racism they tolerated, the  consistent comradery, how they looked out for each other, their fear of the british bobbies, mistrust of anyone not irish & the terrible working conditions they endured, the mistreatment by greedy employers & how they always sought to get their revenge on any bastard that wronged them. 
Most of them came good in the end, except those few who let the cursed drink get the better of them.
 So . . . if that's how it was back then, why should we be having any greater expectations for current generations of emigrating Irish lads, I no its not the 1950's but should we really expect these bucks to behave any differently today than their parents or grandparents?

It's a little funny how the  Irish' used to be exported to Australia by the English as punishment for being 'bad', now we're paying to go there to behave like drunken idiots.
And let's not forget about them rediculous 'fighting irish' stickers proudly displayed on car bumpers all across the states.
 Yet you only have to look at how well accepted & admired our soccer supporters behave to restore your faith in the Irish abroad.

Scioch

Feathers wrote: »

'Changing your target market' is trying to attract business from a particular group, not barring people who don't fall into that group. & the point is, thinking of individuals as a group because they have the same race or ethnicity is racism — that's the only thing that's making them a group to begin with.

He's not barring Irish people though (I'm not sure he's barring anyone just no longer accepting their business in the hostel in favor of customers more beneficial to the business) just Irish backpackers. Because its not financially viable to keep accepting them. I'm sure he has Irish friends there, he is Irish himself and his kids are Irish. So the problem isnt with Irish people its with Irish backpackers living and working in Australia.

Its not racist to think of a group a certain way because of their nationality The behavior of the group in general is a measurable phenomenon in business and like it or not Irish people abroad travelling in large groups will be seen as groups of Irish people and not a lot of individual people. So everyone is going to be judged on the actions of everyone else when its negatively affecting the area they are in. You can argue and moan about it all you want but it doesnt change the fact that this guys business is suffering because of Irish backpackers, so he is taking steps to protect his business.

He has made an effort to deal with it through security, but it doesnt seem to be financially preferable. So what do you do ? Operate at a loss ? Allow the place to be wrecked time and time again ? Close down ? All to be politically correct ? No you say "Fcuk them I'm protecting my business and if that means decent Irish people slinging their hook and taking the arseholes with them then so be it" .

Scioch

twinQuins wrote: »

So the solution is to punish the minority who didn't do anything wrong?

You don't see the problem with that?

Its business. If h majority of people dont like something then there wont be any profit in making it for the minority. This guy should be under no obligation to provide a service for anyone when he cant benefit from it. If the majority of people are assholes then everyone loses out. Thats life.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

twinQuins wrote: »

So the solution is to punish the minority who didn't do anything wrong?

You don't see the problem with that?

The maniority being the people who lose their jobs and businesses when the guy can no longer afford to keep payign staff becasue he has to pay cleanup bills?

You don't see a problem with that?

The guy will and has every right to protect his livelihood.

mikemac1

Viviana Delicious Legume wrote: »

I totally see where this guy is coming from. The majority of Irish people I ever meet abroad are just constantly on the piss. They think they have a God-given right to drink every night, behave however they like and turn up to work hungover and do a terrible job. Not all of them, but a significant majority. I've spent a lot of time convincing employers and landlords that I'm not like that. There is a MASSIVE sense of entitlement left over from the Celtic Tiger times.

Is any of this new though?

Were there not tens of thousands of Irish navvies in the 50's doing brutally hard work and then drinking their wages every week?

Put young single people abroad in a new place, no small town to watch them, a bit of money in their phóca then well of course a good few will go wild
I don't think it's anything to do with nationality

Solair

I've seen the exact same behaviour from Aussi backpackers in the UK and elsewhere and also from UK backpackers in Australia and elsewhere too.

The problem isn't the nationality, the problem is a general 'spring break' type culture that seems to afflict English-speaking backpackers in general.

Also, you'd have to distinguish between the actual true backpackers who go off traveling to interesting and obscure places and 'backpackers' who just go to a major western destination e.g. Australia in the case of Irish and British or London in the case of Aussis. They're often there for a good time and a change of scenery and aren't actually planning on living there long-term nor are they necessarily there to absorb the local culture.

Australia's got a major influx of Irish (and also British) short-term visa types at the moment due to the major slow-down in the European economy and also due to the attractive boom in Aus.

I found Australians on the most part very friendly, normal and nice, but there's also a very strong right-wing tabloid media there which seems to be increasingly xenophobic. Some Australians' attitudes are also rather surprisingly conservative and xenophobic, in a way that I felt was a bit like stepping into a timewarp. It felt like I was speaking to someone in England in about 1968.

Also, I noticed that as Australia has become more prosperous during its own bubble at the moment, there's a bit of a isolationist and rather unwarranted superior attitude developing amongst certain people that is similar to what you'd have expected in some social strata of the UK in the 1960s and 70s.

I am not trying to 'dis' Australians, but I think sometimes when a place is genuinely very far away and quite physically and culturally isolated as Australia and parts of the US are, it is very easy for crazy stereotypes about other nationalities to develop based on very little other than a few anecdotes.

I also think that perhaps the media and indeed forums like this shouldn't be so reactionary. This is ONE GUY who has gotten a heap of tabloid coverage for a rather odd policy he's decided to implement.

I do however think that many Irish and also British teens/twenty somethings don't really seem to realise that drinking like a maniac every weekend and wrecking the place makes you look like an out-of-control alcoholic. It's not clever and it's not attractive and is probably an indication that you have a serious alcohol problem.

The streets of most Irish and also most British cities and towns on a weekend look like they've been invaded by a hoard of drunken maniacs with really bad dress sense!

Party Supply Van

You can't discriminate against a whole nationality of people. Thats just ridiculous. Imagine the uproar if he had of said he wasn't letting Nigerians stay there because a load of them scammed him and didn't pay up or whatever. Where's that lad Nodins input on this, He's usually first to defend a minority being discriminated against.....

MJ23

He did right. Annoying drunk eejits in GAA jerseys.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

MJ23 wrote: »

He did right. Annoying drunk eejits in GAA jerseys.

Light the torch and run....!

PrincessLola

It is pretty racist tho,
Imagine a hostel here banning an entire nationality of people. I don't get why people here are trying to justify it, I've seen just as bad drunken behaviour coming from other nationalities.

NakedNNettles

PrincessLola wrote: »

I don't get why people here are trying to justify it, I've seen just as bad drunken behaviour coming from other nationalities.

Did you read the article? If you did then I think its fairly self explainitory why most posters are supporting this guy. I do too.

As for drunken behaviour, when I was in Australia, the Irish were the worst, that's a fact becuase I saw it with my own eyes. It didn't get half as much media coverage years ago as the particular Irish element causing it were smaller in numbers but it seems that it is blowing out of all proportions recently with the collapse of construction in Ireland.

Paparazzo

PrincessLola wrote: »

It is pretty racist tho,
Imagine a hostel here banning an entire nationality of people. I don't get why people here are trying to justify it, I've seen just as bad drunken behaviour coming from other nationalities.

Other nationalities are banned if they behave badly. Israelis are banned from a good few hostels too because they're more trouble than they're worth.

Pawwed Rig

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Ok, Poles. ( although I doubt the courts would be happy with discrimination against Australians and not Poles)

It's not illegal to discriminate against Poles either.

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Its funny on a thread about discrimination against an ethnic group - the Irish - that that is getting a lot of support, but a minor side topic about Koreans where somebody got the income of Koreans wrong and the same people go ballistic. Thats a side topic.

I don't think anyone went ballistic. A few comments were made nothing more:D

ZeitgeistGlee

Sad to hear, but you can't really blame the guy if his experience with Irish guests has been that bad. Why should he continue to house Irish people (or people of any nationality) if they're just going to continue wrecking the hostel on him? I went to Aus a few years ago for a couple of months and didn't feel the need to get ossified and destroy my cousins's place just because I had a few quid in my back pocket.

That said, I don't think this is a purely Irish problem, every hostel/city/country has their own nightmare stories involving particular nationalities whether they be Irish, English, American or Aussies.

Fuinseog

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

Why are the football fans being dragged into it? They did no harm at all and by all accounts had a great time and caused no trouble

most of Europe sang their praise, no hooliganism or drunken violence, highly unusual among European soccer supporters. maybe the irish in OZ could take them as an example.

Madam_X

ChubbyHubby wrote: »

Ok, if 8 out of 10 irish backpackers who stayed in the hostel are often drunk and exhibits anti social behaviour when intoxicated, shows up for work with a hangover or don't show, don't work as hard...what do you suggest the owner do? Just put up with it? Like the way you people put up with scumbags over here? How very politically correct and tolerant of you. The thing is, the majority of the young going over there shouldn't be acting like that to begin with. They shouldn't be acting like that over here either.

The point being made was that this means ANY Irish people will be refused, including those Irish people on this thread who are full of praise for him. There are a strange few posts by Irish people (I know they are because of the "we" usage) on this discussion about "the Irish" as if they're another nationality. The self loathing is gas though - despite the assertions that "we" think we're loved globally, "we" also do a good line in bashing our own nationality. :pac:

I see where the guy is coming from - those muppets are infuriating - but there are wider implications if it's a blanket ban on all Irish. It's not drunken, rowdy Irish... it's just "Irish".

Feathers

LordSmeg wrote: »

I'm not sure he's barring anyone just no longer accepting their business in the hostel

Haha, excellent! Have you considered a career in PR for a security company? "You're not barred, we're just not accepting your business" — What exactly is the difference?

LordSmeg wrote: »

Its not racist to think of a group a certain way because of their nationality

Can you tell me what is racism so? Because to me, this is what I undersatnd as the very definition of the term: discrimination based on race, ethnicity or nationality.

Scioch

Feathers wrote: »

Haha, excellent! Have you considered a career in PR for a security company? "You're not barred, we're just not accepting your business" — What exactly is the difference?

He hasnt barred anyone from the premises, he's just preferring to take the custom of other people. Same as if I had two spuds and I didnt like the the head on you. I can say I aint selling you these spuds I'm keeping them for Jim. You aint barred from the shop you just aint gettin the spuds. Simple.

Can you tell me what is racism so? Because to me, this is what I undersatnd as the very definition of the term: discrimination based on race, ethnicity or nationality.

Racism is the belief that different characteristics in racial groups justify discrimination.

Thats what it is according to wiki. And he's not of the belief that certain characteristics of Irish people warrant discrimination. He's of the belief that young Irish backpackers have caused him grief so in an effort to avoid it in future he wont accept them.

I doubt he'd refuse a 50 something professional who is not likely to cause any mischief. The issue isnt with Irish people its with young Irish backpackers in Australia. Its not racism its justified discrimination. Same as insurance companies do all the time. If your a young guy then your going to pay the price for all the arsehole boy racers, some insurers wouldnt even touch ya.

Madam_X

Yeh it's not discrimination based merely on being Irish, it's based on the behaviour of a significant number of Irish. It's not ideal - kinda pisses me off because young Irish folk who won't cause any trouble are affected (I'd partially blame the tools causing mayhem for damaging the Irish reputation) but it's not correct to say it's straightforward racism.

NakedNNettles

Its not racism, the guy is protecting his business interests, its all business at the end of the day.

I would do the same thing with one difference, I wouldn't have said anything to the media. If anyone turns up at my hostel that I don't like cut of, check the passport/ID "Sorry, full up, move on" ...simple as!

Happens all the time down under.

Micky Dolenz

I hear we are racists now, Father?

Duggys Housemate

The it's not racism crowd are making the lamest excuses. Here in Ireland you can't ban all travellers from a shop because you have had a bad time with certain travellers before.

Duggys Housemate

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

It's not illegal to discriminate against Poles either.

Yes, it is.

NakedNNettles

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Here in Ireland you can't ban all travellers from a shop because you have had a bad time with certain travellers before.

Happens all the time at night clubs, people get turned away for XYZ.

The Snipe

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Damn those Koreans.

Dey teurk er jerbs!

Duggys Housemate

NakedNNettles wrote: »

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Here in Ireland you can't ban all travellers from a shop because you have had a bad time with certain travellers before.

Happens all the time at night clubs, people get turned away for XYZ.

Oh FFS. Unless XYZ is "being a traveller" or "being Polish" that comment is meaningless.

Here is a sample case.
http://www.non-discrimination.net/content/media/IE-26-Traveller women win discrimination case against hotel in Circuit Court .pdf

MrReynholm

The very worst thing about it is that it's a small minority of loud, uneducated arseholes who are causing trouble over there while other Irish people get on with their lives. We all know the people who've emigrated there also, I can't think of one that I know that I would call a hard working or high achieving person. Just louts who rode the construction boom getting paid huge money for very low skilled work and when the poles came and then the industry collapsed, refused to work for less or in a job they then felt was below them.

Anyway, a small but noticeable (extremely vocal, attention whoring) lot of Irish over there are tarnishing the reputation of Irish people there and elsewhere with their antics. The worst part about this is that even if they're all booted out, the reputation will take a long time to repair as the one's who will repair it will generally go unnoticed as they're merely doing a good job and getting on with their lives there.

It's an utter shame. On a positive note, it has a lot of the work shy lager louts out of the country for a decent period, on a negative note they're doing all they can while out of it to make Irish people undesirable in the locations they're in.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

NakedNNettles

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Here is a sample case.
http://www.non-discrimination.net/content/media/IE-26-Traveller%20women%20win%20discrimination%20case%20against%20hotel%20in%20Circuit%20Court%20.pdf

I knew you were going to bring that up. You're predictable like that.

Fact is anyone could bring forward a discrimation case for XYZ by shouting from the rooftops but the vast majority couldn't be bothered wasting the time or attracting national publicity.

Xavi6

The bloke is spot on. Yes it's rough that people have to suffer because of the actions of the minority but that's the unfortunate fall out from a guy sick to the teeth of having to clean up after scum.

The Irish backpacker reputation isn't bad for no reason. Maybe, just maybe, if the misbehaving folk are turned away from more places they'll get a bit of cop on and start to behave themselves even just a little bit.

Until then this sort of thing will keep popping up, just it has for the past 18 months or so, and the good ones out there will have to grin and bear it.

Mr. Loverman

So what can we do about the scumbag culture in Ireland?

Three strikes law?

Scioch

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

So what can we do about the scumbag culture in Ireland?

Three strikes law?

30 strikes law would make a difference. Thats how useless we are at dealing with these people.

daesu

IrishAm wrote: »

Slagging off the Irish while two of his teenage kids still live here.

So ? There's a huge aspect of Irish culture which I despise, the inability for a large portion of Irish people to drink in moderation is high up the list. I've lived all over Europe and Asia and for the vast majority of them drinking is part of the night out, getting drunk isn't. To many Irish, even most, getting **** faced as quickly as possible seems to be the main aim of a night out.

If I ran a business I wouldn't want drunks wrecking it either and it's not difficult to predict which groups are more likely to be drunken eejits.

Doubt very much that the 40 Koreans(can you say cheap labour?) he hired last week are legal.

What makes you think that ? Koreans can get a holiday visa just as easily as Paddy. Most Koreans are also in a better position to get a more permanent visa than most Irish people, relatively speaking, when you consider almost 90% of Koreans go to University.

Korea is also a very rich country with low unemployment and a vibrant economy. Korea is full of immigrants from China, Vietnam, Indonesia, Pakistan, India etc who come to work in construction, fishing, farming and other jobs that Koreans will no longer do. If they won't work for **** money at home why would they do so in Oz ?

Of course there are illegal Koreans but they are no more likely to accept low wages than an illegal Irish person is and there are plenty of illegal Irish there.

Mr. Loverman

daesu wrote: »

the inability for a large portion of Irish people to drink in moderation

I agree. I am in the process of travelling around the world and it has become very apparent that the majority of Irish people have a drinking problem when compared to most of the rest of the world.

I went to an expat AA meeting in China (invited by an alcoholic friend) and it was sad to see the alcoholics at the meeting would be considered normal drinkers in Ireland.

Wibbs

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

I agree. I am in the process of travelling around the world and it has become very apparent that the majority of Irish people have a drinking problem when compared to most of the rest of the world.

Yea I've had a similar impression. However IMH it's a somewhat recent thing. I mean in the last 20 years. While we've had the rep of the "drunken Irish' for a long long time, in reality that seemed to be more a problem with Irish emigrants overseas. In Ireland we used to have one of the lowest rates of liver disease in Europe. We drank, but not nearly to the degree we do now. We also used to have a much better rep overseas as being easygoing and no trouble compared to other holidaymakers/travelers. We still do in some areas as our recent cool footie fans in Poland showed, but there does seem to have been a growth in the numbers of pissartists we're exporting and growing here.

Access to drink is one diff compared to the past. When I was a kid back in the stone age, the only places you could get drink were pubs and off licences and there were a lot fewer of the latter about. Now it's everywhere. Of all my mates parents I can only recall one drinker and in today's terms he wasn't that excessive. Drinking has become more normalised as an everyday thing. Other cultures have that too like the Latins, but we seemed to go from one night a week in the pub having a minor binge to a minor binge every time drink hit our lips, rather than a glass of vino with dinner. I reckon it's cos we drink to get drunk, rather than as a drink in of itself, so trying to be "continental" didn't quite work with extra access to it.

Duggys Housemate

NakedNNettles wrote: »

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Here is a sample case.
http://www.non-discrimination.net/content/media/IE-26-Traveller%20women%20win%20discrimination%20case%20against%20hotel%20in%20Circuit%20Court%20.pdf

I knew you were going to bring that up. You're predictable like that.

Lol. I have no idea who you are, and probably you me.

Fact is anyone could bring forward a discrimation case for XYZ by shouting from the rooftops but the vast majority couldn't be bothered wasting the time or attracting national publicity.

Fact is they won the case in a court proving my point you can't discriminate on ethnicity in Ireland.

We get nowhere unless facts are acknowledged. If you believe that businesses should be allowed to say No Travellers, No Irish or No Blacks that's up to you but at least admit that it is illegal in Ireland, and I suspect also in Australia.

Duggys Housemate

What most people are not getting here in their rush to anti-Irish Irishness, and their dislike of the modern backpacker class is this.

If this business can discriminate against a nationality than other businesses can. Against any nationality This would open the way to banks to have different rates of interest for credit cards, or different mortgage criteria for the (legal) Irish and aboriginals in Australia, for restaurants to bar blacks and Koreans, and so on. Fast food restaurants in Ireland are not too fond of the Spanish students who come in with a group of 20 and buy one drink between them, but they don't put No Spainish signs in the window. If they did they would be fined and the pro-discriminatory mob on this thread would have a totally different answer.

This thread is actually about a priori discrimination based on nationality, it seems this is acceptable to the Irish only if the Irish are victims of it.

Duggys Housemate

Wibbs what you are seeing is the increase in binge drinking. Im 35 and I gave seen an increase in that culture but a decrease in the old style alcoholic who was drunk every day by midday, and a barfly. They were considered the real alcoholics, in fact unless you drank every day, all day, you weren't considered a dipsomaniac.

Wibbs

I'd narrow it down myself DH. We've always had binge drinking. The lets get sloshed at the weekends in a pub stylee, but now the outlets are wider in range and therefore more a daily more normalised thing and more people are doing it. I would argue that there hasn't been so much a decrease in the old style alcoholic as nowadays he or she would be far less noticeable. Far far more people drink on a daily basis these days. The glass or three of vino or a couple of cans of an evening as an example. It's a lot cheaper and easier to access that than in say the 70's*.They're like part time barflys in their own home. If every one of those people were in the pub every time they had a few drinks the pub trade would be positively booming off the scale.





* Even the types of drink. My dad used to drink a glass of wine with his evening meal a few times a week and he was considered "odd" for drinking wine. It was also harder to find wine.

ZeitgeistGlee

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

This thread is actually about a priori discrimination based on nationality, it seems this is acceptable to the Irish only if the Irish are victims of it.

Would you care to offer a counter-solution then to the hostel owner so he might continue to lodge Irish people in his hostel without the constant stress from the hassle they cause?

Elessar

wilkie2006 wrote: »

Ah, hold the fcuk on here. There's nothing racist about it at all. The owner has clearly given black people a chance and realised that they're taking the pi$$ out of him. By the time I was leaving San Diego (J1) I was almost embarrassed to be associated with black students, given the cnutish, loutish behaviour of the majority of them. By the sounds of it, black people are knocking around Australia, treating the country like a chavs' holiday camp. Backpacking's not an excuse to act the bo11ocks in someone else's country. The fact that the owner is black probably means that he's shown more tolerance - and taken a lot more $hit - than most would have, yet he's still obliged to take these radical steps.

Here's an idea - instead of lambasting the patron of this hostel, how about we all contact people we know in Australia and petition them to stop acting like stereotypical children of the African continent and destroying its reputation?

Replace every "Irish" word in this thread with "black" and see how it makes a difference. Nothing has changed except a single word - yet the replies to this thread would be very, very different.

Racism against Irish people is still racism. But that's ok isn't it. Sure it's grand like. It's totally ok to tar everyone with the same brush and this hostel owner is totally in the right to do the same. He's even Irish himself. Sure it's grand like. God forbid it was black backpackers he had a problem with.

Do you see the injustice?

Feathers

LordSmeg wrote: »

He hasnt barred anyone from the premises, he's just preferring to take the custom of other people. Same as if I had two spuds and I didnt like the the head on you. I can say I aint selling you these spuds I'm keeping them for Jim. You aint barred from the shop you just aint gettin the spuds. Simple.

People go to a hostel to get somewhere to stay. Saying someone's not barred from using the hostel because you'll let them stand in the lobby is just splitting hairs over which terminology you're putting on it. He's refusing to do business with them.

LordSmeg wrote: »

And he's not of the belief that certain characteristics of Irish people warrant discrimination. He's of the belief that young Irish backpackers have caused him grief so in an effort to avoid it in future he wont accept them.

I doubt he'd refuse a 50 something professional who is not likely to cause any mischief.

But the point is the only difference between a young Irish backpacker and a young French backpacker is nationality — if one person is allowed to stay & the other is not, that's racism!

LordSmeg wrote: »

Its not racism its justified discrimination.

Discrimination is making a distinction between two things or groups. When it's a distinction based on race or ethnicity, it's generally called racism. The UN defines it like this:

The term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.

As I said, if you want to argue that racism is justified in this case, that's a different point.

LordSmeg wrote: »

Same as insurance companies do all the time. If your a young guy then your going to pay the price for all the arsehole boy racers, some insurers wouldnt even touch ya.

Oh, you mean the situation where it's justifiable to give young women cheaper insurance because they're less likely to claim?

European Court of Justice wrote:

"Taking the gender of the insured individual into account as a risk factor in insurance contracts constitutes discrimination," the ECJ said.

— BBC Article

The one that was ruled to be sexism by the EU a year ago? Thanks for backing up my point

Wibbs

Elessar wrote: »

Replace every "Irish" word in this thread with "black" and see how it makes a difference. Nothing has changed except a single word - yet the replies to this thread would be very, very different.

Racism against Irish people is still racism. But that's ok isn't it. Sure it's grand like. It's totally ok to tar everyone with the same brush and this hostel owner is totally in the right to do the same. He's even Irish himself. Sure it's grand like. God forbid it was black backpackers he had a problem with.

Do you see the injustice?

If it was Black it might be racism, however if it was say, I dunno Zimbabweans I'd have less issue with the post, if Zimbabweans* had a tendency to act like that.

You're making an all too usual rookie mistake in confusing race/population with nationality/culture. They're quite different. You hear this guff about travelers too. They're not a separate "race", so any prejudice involved is culturalism, not racism.







*On that score funny enough I've never met any Zimbabwean who was a tosspot. I've met quite a few and really lovely people each one. Fcuk knows where they got Mugabe from. Maybe he took all the wankerism for the entire nation leaving nothing left for anyone else. That sounds about right

Patrick Cleburne

Elessar wrote: »

Replace every "Irish" word in this thread with "black" and see how it makes a difference. Nothing has changed except a single word - yet the replies to this thread would be very, very different.

Racism against Irish people is still racism. But that's ok isn't it. Sure it's grand like. It's totally ok to tar everyone with the same brush and this hostel owner is totally in the right to do the same. He's even Irish himself. Sure it's grand like. God forbid it was black backpackers he had a problem with.

Do you see the injustice?

The Irish are creating trouble at this Hostel. They should not be allowed to create trouble. If they want to create trouble, they should go home and leave the business this guy owns alone.

Wibbs

Feathers wrote: »

But the point is the only difference between a young Irish backpacker and a young French backpacker is nationality — if one person is allowed to stay & the other is not, that's racism!

No, it is not. The French and Irish are considered one "race" unless of course if they're Irish/french of African/Asian descent, so while it would be national/cultural prejudicial discrimination it cannot by definition be racist. EG If a Black Irishman was refused board, but a white Irishman was given a room, that would be racism. Spot the diff.

Discrimination is making a distinction between two things or groups. When it's a distinction based on race or ethnicity, it's generally called racism. The UN defines it like this:

While the UN is a good thing, it also can have it's head squarely up it's arse on occasion and defo on this point points as it makes little logical or descriptive sense. Sure if you wanna use "racism" as some lazy shorthand, but otherwise no.

Feathers

Wibbs wrote: »

If it was Black it might be racism, however if it was say, I dunno Zimbabweans I'd have less issue with the post, if Zimbabweans* had a tendency to act like that.

You're making an all too usual rookie mistake in confusing race/population with nationality/culture. They're quite different. You hear this guff about travelers too. They're not a separate "race", so any prejudice involved is culturalism, not racism.

Well, in day-to-day language, the term racism is generally accepted as a catch-all for these (I guess we can probably do without ethnicism & 'nationalism' would just be confusing ).