Hostel in Oz bans all Irish from staying there

Wibbs

Feathers wrote: »

Well, in day-to-day language, the term racism is generally accepted as a catch-all for these (I guess we can probably do without ethnicism & 'nationalism' would just be confusing ).

Oh sure F, though it can get on my tits and not just from pedantry. Too often the racist card is played by some groups as a defence to deflect real issues that may be in play. IMHO calling this bloke a racist because he's reticent to give board to a group of people that have caused more trouble than other groups of people is daft. Even more daft when he is of the same "race".

old_aussie

Fine bunch of chaps the irish, when they're in Dublin

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056685520

Feathers

Wibbs wrote: »

Oh sure F, though it can get on my tits and not just from pedantry. Too often the racist card is played by some groups as a defence to deflect real issues that may be in play. IMHO calling this bloke a racist because he's reticent to give board to a group of people that have caused more trouble than other groups of people is daft. Even more daft when he is of the same "race".

I don't know if I'd agree, as TBH it's the same issue — discriminaton. Surely when people are pushing for equality, the grounds for which people are being discriminated against isn't the important bit, it's the fact that they're getting discriminated against in the first place. In every scenario this happens, we should be looking to stamp it out.

It's like saying racism is wrong but sexism is OK. Seems strange that someone could find one acceptable but not the other. If nationality is something that people are discriminated against for, then I'd say whether or not it's called racism is irrelevant — it's something that people should be protected against.

That said, there's obviously more factors at play. As someone said with Spanish exchange students in Supermacs — I might be inclined to bar them all if they all came in as a group & were acting up. It's not like I'm going to start trying to pick out the 'trouble makers' in a group of 20 or 30.

But surely that's not the same as having a sign up saying 'No Spanish'?

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

Madam_X

Patrick Cleburne wrote: »

The Irish are creating trouble at this Hostel. They should not be allowed to create trouble. If they want to create trouble, they should go home and leave the business this guy owns alone.

We gathered that. It's just that some of us are thinking about the wider implications, in that it could affect some of "the Irish" who aren't interested in causing trouble.

Scioch

Feathers wrote: »

People go to a hostel to get somewhere to stay. Saying someone's not barred from using the hostel because you'll let them stand in the lobby is just splitting hairs over which terminology you're putting on it. He's refusing to do business with them.

You used the term barred not me and said it was applied to all Irish people and called that racist. From the article in the OP it seems to me he is preferring to do business with others rather than refusing to do business with Irish people.

But the point is the only difference between a young Irish backpacker and a young French backpacker is nationality — if one person is allowed to stay & the other is not, that's racism!


Discrimination is making a distinction between two things or groups. When it's a distinction based on race or ethnicity, it's generally called racism. The UN defines it like this:

Wibbs cleared that up so no need for me to go over it again.

As I said, if you want to argue that racism is justified in this case, that's a different point.

Not racism, discrimination.

Oh, you mean the situation where it's justifiable to give young women cheaper insurance because they're less likely to claim?

The one that was ruled to be sexism by the EU a year ago? Thanks for backing up my point

What point ? There are some insurers that only cover women. Yes its sexist and yes its discriminatory but its not illegal. When getting insurance your classed a s group and charged based on that, depending on the car, where you live, age etc etc. Your risk factor is prejudged based on all those things because what others in your area, of your age group have done before you. Discrimination happens all the time in business.

kupus

wilkie2006 wrote: »

Ah, hold the fcuk on here. There's nothing racist about it at all. The owner has clearly given Irish backpackers a chance and realised that they're taking the pi$$ out of him. By the time I was leaving San Diego (J1) I was almost embarrassed to be associated with Irish students, given the cnutish, loutish behaviour of the majority of my compatriots. By the sounds of it, Irish people are knocking around Australia, treating the country like a chavs' holiday camp. Backpacking's not an excuse to act the bo11ocks in someone else's country. The fact that the owner is Irish probably means that he's shown more tolerance - and taken a lot more $hit - than most would have, yet he's still obliged to take these radical steps.

Here's an idea - instead of lambasting the patron of this hostel, how about we all contact people we know in Australia and petition them to stop acting like stereotypical children of the Celtic Tiger and destroying our reputation?

+1

ChubbyHubby

Are people are just unhappy with the phrasing of the ban and the use of the Irish when the owner spoke out about it? It's probably not a written policy and if it is it could easily be: "Your business is not welcome if you are identified as someone as work shy, drinks to excess regularly and has a tendency to disrespect other people's properties." He's not racist. This is not racist. This is not going to lead to racism in every other business. He's discriminating against people who act like idiots and identified them as irish backpackers in some interview.

Feathers

LordSmeg wrote: »

You used the term barred not me and said it was applied to all Irish people and called that racist. From the article in the OP it seems to me he is preferring to do business with others rather than refusing to do business with Irish people.

Which is why I'm saying that you're splitting hairs. Call it what you like — he's refusing to do business with them.

LordSmeg wrote: »

Wibbs cleared that up so no need for me to go over it again.

Not racism, discrimination.

Fine. I didn't realise that you were basing your argument on this distinction, as you had said "racism or good business?" in your opening post.

LordSmeg wrote: »

What point ? There are some insurers that only cover women. Yes its sexist and yes its discriminatory but its not illegal. When getting insurance your classed a s group and charged based on that, depending on the car, where you live, age etc etc. Your risk factor is prejudged based on all those things because what others in your area, of your age group have done before you. Discrimination happens all the time in business.

That was my point, it is illegal. In the same way that men only golf clubs are illegal, and ethnic/cultural/racism/national/etc discriminaton is illegal, both here & in Australia.

Feathers

ChubbyHubby wrote: »

Are people are just unhappy with the phrasing of the ban and the use of the Irish when the owner spoke out about it? It's probably not a written policy and if it is it could easily be: "Your business is not welcome if you are identified as someone as work shy, drinks to excess regularly and has a tendency to disrespect other people's properties." He's not racist. This is not racist. This is not going to lead to racism in every other business. He's discriminating against people who act like idiots and identified them as irish backpackers in some interview.

They happen to be working on a local farm, but he's just providing a hostel — there's no interview.

“If Irish people ring up we say ‘Sorry, we’re full’.

That sounds 'racial discrimination' (as defined by Irish/EU/Australian/UN law) to me.

ChubbyHubby

Feathers wrote: »

They happen to be working on a local farm, but he's just providing a hostel — there's no interview.

I am referring to the interview for the newspaper.

IrishAm

One hopes the Australians don't inflict the horror of inserting little green lights in taxi cabs, on their immigrant community

Feathers

ChubbyHubby wrote: »

I am referring to the interview for the newspaper.

Ah! Sorry. Well, he seems pretty clear about it from the bit I quoted. How can he know if they're trouble makers by their accent on the phone?

ChubbyHubby

Feathers wrote: »

Ah! Sorry. Well, he seems pretty clear about it from the bit I quoted. How can he know if they're trouble makers by their accent on the phone?

You're normally asked about your nationality when you are booking into a hostel down that part of the world.

Guy On Phone: can i have a bed for next monday please
Owner: i need a name, address and nationality please
Guy On Phone: paddy o'shea cork ireland
Owner: let's see, I am afraid we're full next monday and will be for the rest of the year, thank you come again

Feathers

ChubbyHubby wrote: »

You're normally asked about your nationality when you are booking into a hostel down that part of the world.

Guy On Phone: can i have a bed for next monday please
Owner: i need a name, address and nationality please
Guy On Phone: paddy o'shea cork ireland
Owner: let's see, I am afraid we're full next monday and will be for the rest of the year, thank you come again

Yeah, didn't mean that he wouldn't know that they were Irish, more that that's all he'd know about them

6ix

People are far too worried about 'our reputation'. This kind of thing isn't being widely reported or even noticed in Australia, nor will it be. Most rational Australians won't judge Irish people on the people they see/hear about causing trouble. I don't judge the Aussies on the few I see fighting in Sydney CBD pretty much every single weekend.

The Irish media just like talking about it to bring a sensationalist 'Irish abroad are terrible' element to it. Somehow it becomes one of the most viewed articles on the Irish Times website when in reality people should probably be more worried about what's going on a bit closer to home. I guess it's a break from that 'doom and gloom news' too though, so maybe it makes sense that it grabs the attention.

As for the comment about not living at Bondi Beach, that's rubbish. All kinds of people live near Bondi Beach, it's more known for being home to hipsters/posers and ex-pats in general than Irish people.

"According to the 2006 census, there were 10,373 persons usually resident in Bondi Beach. Country of Birth of these residents was Australia 41.0%, followed by England 6.2%, New Zealand 3.8%, South Africa 1.9%, Ireland 1.3% and France 1.1%".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bondi_Beach,_New_South_Wales

I would say the composition probably hasn't changed that much since to be honest. The simple fact is that if you want to avoid the "trashy Irish abroad" scene, you will - it's very very easy in a large city like Sydney.

Mr. Loverman

I agree with the opinion that the hostel owners actions are bad in the long run as it will affect innocent people. In general I think anything which affects innocent people is wrong.

But I can definitely understand his reasoning and why he felt he had no choice.

Perhaps a compromise could be asking for a deposit similar to what a hotel does, but I accept this may not work in the backpacking world.

Sea Filly

Wibbs wrote: »

Access to drink is one diff compared to the past. When I was a kid back in the stone age, the only places you could get drink were pubs and off licences and there were a lot fewer of the latter about.

Plus, rather importantly, say back when my granny was a young woman in the 40s, women in general didn't go into to pubs and if they did they were shuttled off to the snug where they'd be lucky to get more than a few glasses of sherry or port.

I think the greatest rise in drinking in the last 50 years must be amongst women, though no doubt drinking in men has increased too.

Bad Panda

Just listening to Phantom at the moment and there's a guy on from Australia (well, he's actually Irish) that runs a hostel and has banned Irish people from his hostel.

He's cited a lot of them trashing the place, a few getting arrested. He says it's getting worse too.

I've been abroad quite a lot and have witnessed a lot of muppetry of Irish backpackers.

Only last year in Canada some muppet in a GAA jersey started a fight outside a pub (or tried to) and went on about how he was mates with lads in the IRA. :rolleyes:

Obviously not all Irish are like this, but how do you feel about this Irish guy in Oz banning Irish people from his hostel because of the trouble he's endured?

I understand how he feels, but I'm not sure how I myself could justify it regardless. Maybe better vetting, but....Irish people seem to be OK 'til they get abroad and have a few beers so that would be difficult.

I think he should have every right to ban them if he wants given the trouble he's cited - again - arrests, lots of damage to the hostel and general disruptive behaviour...

What's AH's view?

FatherLen

it works! my time machine works!

Lyaiera

FatherLen wrote: »

it works! my time machine works!

BUT YOU'VE TRANPORTED US ALL WITH YOU, YOU MAD BASTURD!

Bad Panda

FatherLen wrote: »

it works! my time machine works!

Yeah I thought it was familiar alright!

It's just he was on now about it so he's obviously still imposing it and no sign of letting up...

Edit: I thought it was ages ago!!! Only a month! Ah well! Fcuk the lot of ya's! :pac:

biko

Merged with recent thread.

Lyaiera

And so, with great scientific prowess the After Hours technicians stopped the rift in the timelines.