Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread II

jm08

jm08 wrote: »

Any comments on who anyone thinks should have a central contract or not is pointless unless you know the value of the contract and the circumstances.

You might say that D'Arcy is not worth €500K to the IRFU per annum. But he could be worth €200k (and which is what it will cost Leinster to have adequate cover for him when with Ireland or being rested. Leinster have that 200K per annum to keep McFadden and a couple of more players in Leinster).

What has that got to do with Ireland's central contracting? You are just noise-making.

We have non - 'essential' players in D'Arcy, ROG, DOC and the now retired Leamy getting central contracts in the past 18 months.

Mike Ross though, a player who's absence has previously resulted in our scrum being impaled upon the phallus of the opposition without mercy, is being offered a central contract for less cash than his previous deal?

The central contract system has been terribly implemented. Fringe players who are clearly about to be usurped earning lucrative deals, players getting 2 years though their influence on the pitch is visibly declining etc. This removes money from the 'pot'.

If Bent, Archer, Loughney, Hagan or Macklin was pushing Ross hard for a test spot, then perhaps we might consider him less-valuable than he was previously. But I don't think that's the case in the slightest!

irishbucsfan

D'Arcy has not been a non-essential player up to now. He's started regularly. Makes sense to have him centrally contracted.

jm08

Deleted User wrote: »

What has that got to do with Ireland's central contracting? You are just noise-making.

As Jerry Flannery put it recently, "Its basically like having a player for free for the provinces if you are on central contract."

Sexton would probably prefer not to be on a central contract if Leinster paid him the same. The problem is that Leinster probably couldn't afford to pay him the same (i.e., they are on a budget and the more they pay Sexton, the less they have to pay Madigan (who might walk if he wasn't offered enough).

We have non - 'essential' players in D'Arcy, ROG, DOC and the now retired Leamy getting central contracts in the past 18 months.

In your opinion they are not essential, but since they have made every IRFU squad in the last 10-12 years, they are essential. Shane Jennings & Mick O'Driscoll would be regarded as non-essential, but those three are.

Anyway, its more to do with the burden on the provinces and the IRFU wanting to control their gametime (and so providing the funding to get adequate cover).

As for Leamy - he was injured playing for Ireland. You expect Munster to pick up the that tab. It was a win-win for the IRFU as they were certainly not out of pocket because he had to retire.

Mike Ross though, a player who's absence has previously resulted in us being impaled upon the phallus of the opposition without mercy, is being offered a central contract for less cash than his previous deal?

Every player (including BOD & POC) have taken paycuts.

The central contract system has been terribly implemented. Fringe players who are clearly about to be usurped earning lucrative deals, players getting 2 years though their influence on the pitch is visibly declining etc. This removes money from the 'pot'.

If Bent, Archer, Loughney, Hagan or Macklin was pushing Ross hard for a test spot, then perhaps we might consider him less-valuable than he was previously. But I don't think that's the case in the slightest!

It might suit the IRFU if Ross moved abroad as a couple of the above mentioned might get gametime with Leinster while Ross would still be available to Ireland.

nope, not doing it.

Winters

Deleted User wrote: »

The central contract system has been terribly implemented. Fringe players who are clearly about to be usurped earning lucrative deals, players getting 2 years though their influence on the pitch is visibly declining etc. This removes money from the 'pot'.

If Bent, Archer, Loughney, Hagan or Macklin was pushing Ross hard for a test spot, then perhaps we might consider him less-valuable than he was previously. But I don't think that's the case in the slightest!

The way the central contract system works means there are effectively 5 professional teams in Ireland.

The way I see it, the players that warrant a central contract are players who are guaranteed (barring injury) places on every Ireland squad.

However what happens with loss or upturn in form and long term injuries at the time of contract renewal? Is there pressure on the Ireland head coach to pick centrally contracted players first? If you are not on a central contract, like Fergus McFadden, would you just receive match fees per game on top of your provincial contract?

I do appreciate that it's very difficult for the IRFU who have to also balance the books in a difficult and competitive environment. Is there a better alternative?

Winters

Winters wrote: »

The way the central contract system works means there are effectively 5 professional teams in Ireland.

The way I see it, the players that warrant a central contract are players who are guaranteed (barring injury) places on every Ireland squad.

However what happens with loss or upturn in form and long term injuries at the time of contract renewal? Is there pressure on the Ireland head coach to pick centrally contracted players first? If you are not on a central contract, like Fergus McFadden, would you just receive match fees per game on top of your provincial contract?

I do appreciate that it's very difficult for the IRFU who have to also balance the books in a difficult and competitive environment. Is there a better alternative?

the theory is good, the implementation is horrendous though.

Your interpretation of it is spot on. However guys like DOC/D'Arcy and ROG (each of whom wouldn't leave us scrambling for cover if they were unavailable for a game) don't merit inclusion yet have been part of the more recent 'batch' of contracts.

jm08

Winters wrote: »

However what happens with loss or upturn in form and long term injuries at the time of contract renewal? Is there pressure on the Ireland head coach to pick centrally contracted players first? If you are not on a central contract, like Fergus McFadden, would you just receive match fees per game on top of your provincial contract?

I don't think so. Luke Fitz & Tomas O'Leary left at home for world cup in favour of Fergus McF & Conor Murray (who is still on a provincial contract).

Also, Paddy Wallace had a central contract when D'Arcy didn't - and D'Arcy was first choice centre at the time. The players would get match fees & touring fees. Sean O'Brien isn't on a central contract.

artvandelay48

ssaye wrote: »

Look at the stats

This season
Madigan
18 games - 14 starts, 4 subs

Last season 26 games 16 starts 10 subs

He is getting plenty games in my opinion. More than Sexton


Sexton This Season
11 Games

Last season

16 games

But the bulk of those have been at fullback.

Zzippy

totallegend wrote: »

If he goes to Super Rugby, not only does he lose out on big mounds of money, he'd also be putting his international career on hold. While technically the southern hemisphere club would have to release him for internationals, it's not really feasible.

Why not? Our main international windows are Feb-mid March and November i.e. the start of the Super Rugby season, and after the end of it. They'd only be missing him for 4-5 games. If Ruan Pienaar can play for SA and club rugby in the NH, why couldn't Sexton do the reverse? The only reason he won't go to Super Rugby is the money...

ssaye

artvandelay48 wrote: »

But the bulk of those have been at fullback.

Thats not what you said though. He will get plenty of games at 10 as sub and/or off the bench and start during the games while sexton is away. Leinster aren't a mickey mouse team and need 2 quality outhalves to compete for a whole season. Madigan starting at 10 for another province, weakens Leinster. A weak Leinster has a knock on affect for Connacht etc getting HEC time.

Quint2010

BREAKING NEWS...BREAKING NEWS....Sky Sports confirm Exeter v Leinster match will be the main game on Saturday and not on the "red button".:)

irishbucsfan

ssaye wrote: »

Madigan starting at 10 for another province, weakens Leinster and therefore the League.

What? How does Madigan getting more game time in the league weaken the league?

ssaye

irishbucsfan wrote: »

What? How does Madigan getting more game time in the league weaken the league?

A poorer Leinster sorry not League

P_1

How do the IRFU handle these contract negotiations, is it a professional or an amautre who negotiates them? Do the IRFU have their own equivalent of Michael Dawson (the Leinster Chief Executive not the Tottenham defender)?

wicklowwonder

Zzippy wrote: »

The only reason he won't go to Super Rugby is the money...

totally untrue, Paris is two hours away door to door in less than 3 hours. His life is in Dublin for example a lot easier to keep a relationship going with his girlfriend from Paris than Sydney. You have to take these thing into consideration as well.

Winters

P_1 wrote: »

How do the IRFU handle these contract negotiations, is it a professional or an amautre who negotiates them? Do the IRFU have their own equivalent of Michael Dawson (the Leinster Chief Executive not the Tottenham defender)?

Maurice Dowling and Eddie Wigglesworth do the contract negotiations on the IRFU side as far as I know.

P_1

Winters wrote: »

Maurice Dowling and Eddie Wigglesworth do the contract negotiations on the IRFU side as far as I know.

Are they professionals or blazers?

CIARAN_BOYLE

P_1 wrote: »

Are they professionals or blazers?

Wigglesworth negotiated EOS's 4 year extension before RWC 2007

Thats enough of an answer imo

Winters

wicklowwonder wrote: »

totally untrue, Paris is two hours away door to door in less than 3 hours. His life is in Dublin for example a lot easier to keep a relationship going with his girlfriend from Paris than Sydney. You have to take these thing into consideration as well.

His girlfriend is a teacher so if she is going to apply for a career break she has to do it before April..

To be honest, if he goes for more money I wouldn't begrudge him. I would prefer him to stay obviously but not at the expense of breaking the bank.

However if he does leave I would prefer to see him not picked for Ireland. Extreme statement but I dont want the floodgates to open and that could be a deterrent.

Fishooks13

Winters wrote: »

His girlfriend is a teacher so if she is going to apply for a career break she has to do it before April..

To be honest, if he goes for more money I wouldn't begrudge him. I would prefer him to stay obviously but not at the expense of breaking the bank.

However if he does leave I would prefer to see him not picked for Ireland. Extreme statement but I dont want the floodgates to open and that could be a deterrent.

Completely disagree. Did the floodgates open when Bowe was getting picked? Or Murphy?

Sexton is a world class ten. To leave him out of the international side for that reason would be mad

ssaye

Winters wrote: »

His girlfriend is a teacher so if she is going to apply for a career break she has to do it before April..

To be honest, if he goes for more money I wouldn't begrudge him. I would prefer him to stay obviously but not at the expense of breaking the bank.

However if he does leave I would prefer to see him not picked for Ireland. Extreme statement but I dont want the floodgates to open and that could be a deterrent.

Big call leaving one of the best OH in the world off your team. The IRFU may save money but this would really be biting their nose to spite their face.

We already struggle playing against teams ahead of us in rankings for the most part.

If others players went too and they kept to this hardline the Irish team would fall even further.

totallegend

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Wigglesworth negotiated EOS's Kidney's 4 2 year extension before RWC 2007 2011

Thats enough of an answer imo

FYP.

ScissorPaperRock

Winters wrote: »

However if he does leave I would prefer to see him not picked for Ireland.

Are you high?!

The Rooster

If I was the billionaire (according to the Irish Times) owner of Racing, I would offer Jonny €1M a year for 4 years, and to sweeten deal I'd offer his girlfiend €100k a year to teach at the Racing creche!

The difference he'd make to that team would be huge. And it would make the club an easier sell for other signings too.

If Sexton got offered that type of money, it would be near impossible to turn down. Paris lifestyle and he can come back to finish his career off in Leinster. As mentioned previously on this thread, Sexton has only been on decent money for a couple of years so hasn't got the bank account or tax credit build ups that many others have. This is his final chance for a big payday worthy of his talent.

He'd be a massive loss to Leinster, but at least with Mad Dog in reserve, it wouldnt be a complete catastrophe. However what would be a catastophe is it might make Cian and Rob more likely to have a look at what's on offer abroad.

But hopefully Racing won't go over €750k, in which case an IRFU offer of €500k should be sufficient to keep Sexton here.

part time punk

P_1 wrote: »

Are they professionals or blazers?

Professional blazers?

molloyjh

Winters wrote: »

Is Aaron Dundon Irish born and bred?

Did he come up through the club system?

He's a Kiwi I think. Came up from AIL via Clontarf AFAIK.

artvandelay48 wrote: »

But the bulk of those have been at fullback.

Not they haven't. He's play 6 games at FB IIRC. His other 8 starts were at 10 and his 4 sub appearances have been at 10 too.

ssaye

training pics

http://www.inpho.ie/assignment/Leinster-Rugby-Squad-Training-Monday/w8BBw-FPTh4EikgkV65OzA..a?ts=zmwe2C0byJq8QPcwzDr5Bg..a

http://www.sportsfile.com/more-images/1301081/

.ak

SOB throwing in the lineout?

ssaye

.ak wrote: »

SOB throwing in the lineout?

The lineout pics are cool

.ak

Locky and Strauss training.

.ak

Interesting none of the backs were pictured training. I guess we all wanted to see if BOD trained.

jm08

P_1 wrote: »

Are they professionals or blazers?

Wigglesworth is a former CEO of Leinster. (He is also has a long association with St. Mary's Rugby Club - player & coach )

ssaye

.ak wrote: »

Interesting none of the backs were pictured training. I guess we all wanted to see if BOD trained.

He was getting checked yesterday so I would say no training on it until tomorrow


Have a feeling he will miss out myself from watching him after the game. But he made of strong stuff so you never know

P_1

jm08 wrote: »

Wigglesworth is a former CEO of Leinster. (He is also has a long association with St. Mary's Rugby Club - player & coach )

Right I get ye.

my point was that perhaps the chaps in the IRFU who would handle the contract negotiations might not be as savvy in terms of dealing with agents in relation to pro contracts as their counterparts in the provinces.

Have to say that a hell of a lot of the credit for Leinster's recent success would have to go to Michael Dawson. The latest DVD really shows the input he has had.

Winters

P_1 wrote: »

Have to say that a hell of a lot of the credit for Leinster's recent success would have to go to Michael Dawson. The latest DVD really shows the input he has had.

Is that a good DVD?

ssaye

Winters wrote: »

Is that a good DVD?

Excellent 4 hours, schools section was great imo

Watched it over Christmas in 1 sitting.

jm08

P_1 wrote: »

Right I get ye.

my point was that perhaps the chaps in the IRFU who would handle the contract negotiations might not be as savvy in terms of dealing with agents in relation to pro contracts as their counterparts in the provinces.

Have to say that a hell of a lot of the credit for Leinster's recent success would have to go to Michael Dawson. The latest DVD really shows the input he has had.

Most of the 'blazers' involved in Irish rugby are all very successful business men, so there would be no shortage of expertise when it comes to contract negotiation. For instance, Kearney the Ireland Team Manager brought (and still owns I think) the Snap franchise in Ireland.

ssaye

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/tables/8369048.stm

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/newsroom/10876.php

Quint2010

ssaye wrote: »

Excellent 4 hours, schools section was great imo

Watched it over Christmas in 1 sitting.

Disagree. They only showed brief footage from two finals. Every final has been televised for the past 10-12 years so disappointed they didnt show more of them.

.ak

Quint2010 wrote: »

Disagree. They only showed brief footage from two finals. Every final has been televised for the past 10-12 years so disappointed they didnt show more of them.

Ah in fairness it wasn't really the footage that made that part great, but rather the whole way they sold it. If you were new to schools rugby it really built it up and rightly so.

tolosenc

I'm growing increasingly confident that if we make it to 20 points, we'll go through.

Can't see Munster getting 4 tries, and I reckon Toulon will win. Only one of those is necessary.

Fishooks13

Jesus if Quins get ye in the quarters Conor O Shea will be like a dog!

irishbucsfan

tolosenc wrote: »

I'm growing increasingly confident that if we make it to 20 points, we'll go through.

Can't see Munster getting 4 tries, and I reckon Toulon will win. Only one of those is necessary.

Yeah I personally believe 20 points will be enough. My main worry is getting to 20 points tbh...

Cannot wait for that match!

Tox56

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yeah I personally believe 20 points will be enough. My main worry is getting to 20 points tbh...

Cannot wait for that match!

I'm exactly the opposite. I'm confident we can get to 20 points, but I'm not so confident that 20 points will be enough. Could be very easy by the time we kick off though, Toulon beat Montpellier and 4 tries is all we need (and a win obvoiusly). If Montpellier win, things get a lot more difficult, and we'll be in the dark a little bit

Ardillaun

Neil3030 wrote: »

He's only 27. I would imagine another big foreign contract could well be on the table when he's 30-31. Especially as an out-half. Not to take anything from the rest of your point, I just don't think this is his last opportunity for a big foreign pay-day.

That assumes he's still playing rugby in three years time. Every day may the last day for a big pay day. When he retires, I won't be paying his bills. In a very tough professional sport, he must consider the quids.

Zzippy

Its not too often Exeter have conceded 4 tries, especially at home. I just can't see it happening this weekend. Leinster didn't even score one against them in the RDS.

Hope I'm wrong about that, but from a Connacht point of view it would probably suit us more to see Leinster in the Amlin, they have more chance of winning that this year. Sorry Leinster fans!

ssaye

Zzippy wrote: »

Its not too often Exeter have conceded 4 tries, especially at home. I just can't see it happening this weekend. Leinster didn't even score one against them in the RDS.

Hope I'm wrong about that, but from a Connacht point of view it would probably suit us more to see Leinster in the Amlin, they have more chance of winning that this year. Sorry Leinster fans!

Always gonna be tough, if they get through the way the season and injuries have panned out its as good as the Northampton comeback imo. Missing 2 Europeans players of the year for a few months and BOD and Fitz and playing a makeshift backline and still having a chance of the league and a chance for qualifying for the QF, its not been a bad year so far just a testing one.

Would rather the league than the AMLIN at this stage of constantly missing out on it but if they dont qualify a double would be nice. :pac:

.ak

It'd be funny after all this Quins being the easy option if we make the q4's that they then go on to beat us...

... well, maybe funny is not the right word.

Fishooks13

I think Leinster will get the four tries and more if they play like they did in the first 50minutes of the Scarlets game. And tbh, I expect them to play like that

Noopti

Wouldn't be surprised to see Leinster get the four tries. They are coming back into their usual try scoring form and they will be going for it big time. Here's hoping!

Also even though Munster are at home, they are playing a decent team in RM92 and Munster haven't looked amazing these past few games, so I wouldn't be surprised to not see them get the tries. If ROG is banned then I would give them a better chance of getting the four tries.