Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread II

justsomebloke

goreyguy wrote: »

The only way O'Connell can be eased in the same way, is for McGrath to graduate to be a regular starter in the Pro12. Which will only happen once VDM has left Leinster.

I think one of the main "problems" is just how many games Healy actually remains injury free. I'd say given how often he goes down to the ground and have a serious injury I'd say management are ****ting a brick about having adequate cover for him

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Well all you're pointing out is that VDM should move on if that's the case.

Currently we have Healy in the starting position, Van Der Merwe as the H Cup backup/Pro 12 starter and McGrath as the Pro 12 backup/A team starter.

If VDM were to leave we would have Healy as the starter, McGrath as the H Cup backup/Pro 12 starter and O'Connell as the Pro 12 backup/A team starter.

McGrath has been our 3rd choice now pretty much since Ronnie McCormack retired iirc. He retired at the end of 09/10 and McGrath was completely unproven. I don't see why we should be afraid to put O'Connell in the same position as him.

I don't see this as being a cover issue, but more of a development issue. McGrath has had the time to develop properly without being shoved into a load of Pro12 games before he was really ready. O'Connell would appear to be 2 years behind McGrath from that perspective (or at least game time would suggest as much anyway). The whys and wherefores behind that are pretty irrelevant. I'm not that pushed either way truth be told, but I just think it makes more sense to take time with O'Connell. An extra year won't make a huge difference.

From the cover perspective I'd rather 2 quality scrummagers in all games. I personally think (and hope others do as well) that the Pro12 isn't a developmental league. That's what the B&I Cup is for.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

This is why people are saying O'Connell should be our 3rd choice next season. Up to this season McGrath has been 3rd choice for 2 seasons (this is his 3rd) and only had to start 4 games, and when you consider only 1 of those was in the first season you could possibly conclude those starts were elective. I think the role of 3rd choice is relatively sheltered, especially when you have a guy like Bent (used to be Stan Wright when McGrath first assumed the role) who can cover both sides.

I'd hope that Bent is used primarily as TH and only appears at LH in the case of an injury crisis. We don't need ambiprops at the moment. It's a great place to be in and we shouldn't be doing anything to undermine that.

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

I don't see this as being a cover issue, but more of a development issue. McGrath has had the time to develop properly without being shoved into a load of Pro12 games before he was really ready. O'Connell would appear to be 2 years behind McGrath from that perspective (or at least game time would suggest as much anyway). The whys and wherefores behind that are pretty irrelevant. I'm not that pushed either way truth be told, but I just think it makes more sense to take time with O'Connell. An extra year won't make a huge difference.

That would be making him 3rd choice (as McGrath has been since he was 19). At the moment O'Connell is further down the pecking order than McGrath was since Ronnie retired. We had Healy, Stan, Ronnie; then Healy, Stan, CJ (ish), McGrath, then Healy, Heinke, McGrath. So next year it would be Healy, McGrath, Bent (ish), O'Connell. CJ and Bent being only used on that side in cases of absolute emergency (I think CJ playing LH might even have been back in the 22 man squad days). O'Connell would be in McGrath's old position of only having to start games a season.

That's all I mean. On one hand you're saying we should treat O'Connell the same way as McGrath, then on the other hand you're saying we should take our time with him and put him further down the pecking order than McGrath was at the same stage. I think he's proven now at this stage that he's ready for some Rabo exposure, whereas with Heinke around we need those Rabo games just to get McGrath into the team, let alone O'Connell.

It's a great problem to have. Especially when the "worst case scenario" would be keeping Heinke who has been a great servant to Irish rugby.

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

That's all I mean. On one hand you're saying we should treat O'Connell the same way as McGrath, then on the other hand you're saying we should take our time with him and put him further down the pecking order than McGrath was at the same stage. I think he's proven now at this stage that he's ready for some Rabo exposure, whereas with Heinke around we need those Rabo games just to get McGrath into the team, let alone O'Connell.

It's a great problem to have. Especially when the "worst case scenario" would be keeping Heinke who has been a great servant to Irish rugby.

But I'm not talking about pecking order. I'm talking about game time. O'Connell is currently at the stage that McGrath was at 2 years ago. Next season he should be brought up to the level McGrath was last year, ie a couple of starts and several sub appearances. And then in 14/15 we should see him make the final step up in the Pro12, which hopefully McGrath will do this season. Phase out VDM next season while phasing in McGrath and start bringing through O'Connell at the same time.

It's not a discussion we thought we'd be having 5 or 6 years ago is it!?

Jedwardian

goreyguy wrote: »

Leinster either trust the young players they have or they don't, keeping VDM prevents home grown players like McGrath and O'Connell from developing.

As they key to development is experience.

It's a balancing act I think. Having Heinke van der Merwe allows Leinster to be more cautious with Cian Healy. There's no need to pick Healy when he's carrying an injury since van der Merwe is nearly as good. I think allowing the Springbok prop leave would lead to Healy being risked more often which won't be good for Leinster or Ireland.

I can't see an issue with van der Merwe being allowed stay by the IRFU. With Cian Healy, Dave Kilcoyne, Tom Court, Brett Wilkinson and Denis Buckley all playing lots of competitive rugby, Ireland are well covered for experienced and up and coming loose head props.

What would be preferable in my view would be for Jack McGrath to try secure a move to a Premiership, Pro 12 or Top 14 club to gain first more team experience and in two years time re-evaluate if he's an option for Leinster to re-sign. Promote a younger loose head to third choice.

At tight head, if Jamie Hagan gets a good offer elsewhere, he should be allowed leave which will promote Martin Moore to third choice. Munster seems like a good bet.

totallegend

As an aside, I was absolutely delighted for van der Merwe to make the most of his cameo for the Boks at the weekend.

I hope he stays on for as long as he's up to it, but if he does get the bullet from Leinster then I hope he gets as much opportunity as possible to put himself in the shop window either for a move to Super XV or somewhere else in Europe. He's still only 27 so there's plenty of propping life left in him, he's on the bench again tomorrow (Steenkamp starts) so hopefully he'll get a decent run.

He's been an absolutely brilliant signing for Leinster and if it was anyone other than Healy ahead of him, he'd be a nailed-on first choice.

Foxtrol

Deleted User wrote: »

+ 1 million the second he got his first cap.

This was my earlier explanation of that post:

Foxtrol wrote: »

If he turns out to be a Strauss like find he'll be kept on but when his signing was announced Schmidt mentioned that he was looking for a player to bridge the gap between the older (Ross) and younger (Furlong & Moore). If the latter two kick on and live up to their potential I dont think we'd hang onto Bent unless he's a lot better than them.

All we’ve seen of him so far is a very brief cameo and Buckley had many of those back in the day. I made that comment in the context of posters saying we will have to let either Moore or Furlong go in the next few seasons and to be honest if they keep their development going I think both could end up being at least international class. I’d have no problem keeping Bent long term if he either turns out to be a very high quality player or a solid pro who is happy to be backup long term but if neither are true I’d be disappointed to lose either of our two young, home grown THs in two/three seasons time, just because he has an Irish Cap.

irishbucsfan

molloyjh wrote: »

But I'm not talking about pecking order. I'm talking about game time. O'Connell is currently at the stage that McGrath was at 2 years ago. Next season he should be brought up to the level McGrath was last year, ie a couple of starts and several sub appearances. And then in 14/15 we should see him make the final step up in the Pro12, which hopefully McGrath will do this season. Phase out VDM next season while phasing in McGrath and start bringing through O'Connell at the same time.

It's not a discussion we thought we'd be having 5 or 6 years ago is it!?

Yeah but would Van Der Merwe want to stay here if he's being phased out? The guy is 27 years old and is top class for a prop his age. I'd imagine he'll want to be going forward with his career, not being phased out while he's still just a scrummaging baby.

I'd also point out that O'Connell is not at the place McGrath was at two years ago in terms of playing time. McGrath played 6 games that season, I'd be surprised if O'Connell gets more than 1 or 2 this season and if that happens it'd be against minnows in weakened sides. Next season O'Connell would have to be involved in 13 (out of 30) games to keep up to McGraths pace. Not a hope in hell of that happening as a 4th choice prop, even with Healy gone! I'd like to see him as a 3rd choice and have him involved in only a handful of games until he proves he has the same potential as McGrath. It's a very tough balancing act.

shuffol

.ak wrote: »

Forwards and backs are entirely different, especially when it comes to scrummaging. My feeling is they need to be eased into it. You can drop a 19 year old into a test match in the backline and he may or may not light the world on fire ala BOD, but you rarely get that with props. Healy being the exception to the rule, although he had to do a lot of hard graft to get where he's at now.

He'll get his time. When you're in the top 3 in a position for a team like Leinster you're bound to get a few starts with injuries, internationals and rotation.

Fair enough except that Mcgrath is now 23(plenty of LH's capped by that age) and has cruised through any scrummaging examinations he's had so far, in fact more often than not he's gotten the better of his opposite number, I think that indicates that he's ready to step up his gametime. If HVDM is kept on for another season and Mcgrath hangs around then he'll be turning 25 before he becomes even 2nd choice. Considering this guy looks like he's the best scrummaging prospect in the country there seems something wrong with that scenario.

molloyjh

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yeah but would Van Der Merwe want to stay here if he's being phased out? The guy is 27 years old and is top class for a prop his age. I'd imagine he'll want to be going forward with his career, not being phased out while he's still just a scrummaging baby.

Probably not, but that's down to the man himself. This all purely theoretical obviously and dependent on all involved (including McGrath and O'Connell) being happy to go along with that plan.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I'd also point out that O'Connell is not at the place McGrath was at two years ago in terms of playing time. McGrath played 6 games that season, I'd be surprised if O'Connell gets more than 1 or 2 this season and if that happens it'd be against minnows in weakened sides.

I meant that at the start of the 10/11 season McGrath only had 1 appearance off the bench. At the start of this season O'Connell had 2 appearances off the bench. If we were to really keep developing him at McGraths pace he'd need a start and a few sub appearances this season (McGrath was 1 and 5 in 11/12) which certainly wouldn't be impossible. Maybe I should have said we should be looking at somewhere between McGraths second and third season when I was talking about a few starts and several sub appearances.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Next season O'Connell would have to be involved in 13 (out of 30) games to keep up to McGraths pace. Not a hope in hell of that happening as a 4th choice prop, even with Healy gone! I'd like to see him as a 3rd choice and have him involved in only a handful of games until he proves he has the same potential as McGrath. It's a very tough balancing act.

If you look at the 10/11 season Healy played in 10 of the 22 regular league games. That meant he was unavailable for 12. Following on from that it would make O'Connell second choice for 12 Pro12 games. He's not going to get much senior game time this season and McGrath is still currently ahead of him in the As too. I just think him going from where he is now (second choice on the As) to second choice for over half the Rabo games is a big jump with only 10 minutes experience at that level.

shuffol

Is there a rule that a young props exposure to gametime has to increase incrementally over time. Paddy Mcallister was 21 when he broke into Ulster squads and was a permanent fixture almost immediately. Kilcoyne only made his debut at the end of last season and look at him now.

bamboozle

Jedwardian wrote: »

It's a balancing act I think. Having Heinke van der Merwe allows Leinster to be more cautious with Cian Healy. There's no need to pick Healy when he's carrying an injury since van der Merwe is nearly as good. I think allowing the Springbok prop leave would lead to Healy being risked more often which won't be good for Leinster or Ireland.

I can't see an issue with van der Merwe being allowed stay by the IRFU. With Cian Healy, Dave Kilcoyne, Tom Court, Brett Wilkinson and Denis Buckley all playing lots of competitive rugby, Ireland are well covered for experienced and up and coming loose head props.

What would be preferable in my view would be for Jack McGrath to try secure a move to a Premiership, Pro 12 or Top 14 club to gain first more team experience and in two years time re-evaluate if he's an option for Leinster to re-sign. Promote a younger loose head to third choice.

At tight head, if Jamie Hagan gets a good offer elsewhere, he should be allowed leave which will promote Martin Moore to third choice. Munster seems like a good bet.

Great point re the cautious use of Healy, especially with a Lions tour coming a lot of our main players will be flogged come this time next year.

In saying that i'd rather see any of our upcoming props go out on loan for a season rather than sign elsewhere.

Banbridgeman2

McGrath needs game time now. I've been watching him awhile now and he is undoubtedly one of the top scrummaging prospects in the NH. Heard from a good source that some representatives came over from French clubs awhile back to study the Leinster academy structure (or something like that) and were asking countless questions about McGrath after watching a scrummaging session. I reckon this kid is going to make it big and if he was in Munster he'd probably be starting for ireland tomorrow. Do Leinster really need HVM? Seems a but greedy and is holding back a serious prospect for the Irish national team

shuffol

shuffol wrote: »

Is there a rule that a young props exposure to gametime has to increase incrementally over time. Paddy Mcallister was 21 when he broke into Ulster squads and was a permanent fixture almost immediately. Kilcoyne only made his debut at the end of last season and look at him now.

Mcallister has had a couple of annoying niggly injuries already. Which is really irritating as I really rate him.

Kilcoyne has started 6 senior games and DK has decided it's time to **** Tom Court in the water and move on. Could be a genius move, but I don't think you can hold Kilcoyne up as an example tbh.

Neither of them have had either a similar or demonstrably better path to development than any other!

ray jay

Scrummaging aside, what's the rest of McGrath's game like?

irishbucsfan

Banbridgeman2 wrote: »

McGrath needs game time now. I've been watching him awhile now and he is undoubtedly one of the top scrummaging prospects in the NH. Heard from a good source that some representatives came over from French clubs awhile back to study the Leinster academy structure (or something like that) and were asking countless questions about McGrath after watching a scrummaging session. I reckon this kid is going to make it big and if he was in Munster he'd probably be starting for ireland tomorrow. Do Leinster really need HVM? Seems a but greedy and is holding back a serious prospect for the Irish national team

Yeah that happened in 09/10 I think. Or maybe 10/11. It was all pretty informal though, or so I've heard.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Banbridgeman2 wrote: »

McGrath needs game time now. I've been watching him awhile now and he is undoubtedly one of the top scrummaging prospects in the NH. Heard from a good source that some representatives came over from French clubs awhile back to study the Leinster academy structure (or something like that) and were asking countless questions about McGrath after watching a scrummaging session. I reckon this kid is going to make it big and if he was in Munster he'd probably be starting for ireland tomorrow. Do Leinster really need HVM? Seems a but greedy and is holding back a serious prospect for the Irish national team

Jackman was over in september asking for McGrath as a medical joker and was turned down

I can understand not sending McGrath given that it was when Healy was unavailable but I wonder why they didn't offer OConnell

.ak

ray jay wrote: »

Scrummaging aside, what's the rest of McGrath's game like?

He's a very talented rucker, you'd be forgiven for thinking he's a flanker.

jacothelad

shuffol wrote: »

Is there a rule that a young props exposure to gametime has to increase incrementally over time. Paddy Mcallister was 21 when he broke into Ulster squads and was a permanent fixture almost immediately. Kilcoyne only made his debut at the end of last season and look at him now.

Kilcoyne has started 6 games for Munster spread over 11 months. That is SIX. A number between 5 and 7. A few of them were a lot less than perfect as you would expect but there was some promise shown. I don't see how on Earth a decision has been reached that he is an international loose-head prop after 6 professional games. I really hope he is but it's not as if we don't have actually experienced loose heads who are still alive and breathing and playing well.
If he had played 6 games for Leinster, would he now be a capped international?
If he had played 6 games for Ulster, would he now be a capped international?
If he had played 6 games for Connacht, would he now be a capped international?

Answers on a post card to:_
'Of Course he feckin' wouldn't.'
No.1 Cloudcuckoo Land.
Kidneytown.

Foxtrol

jacothelad wrote: »

Kilcoyne has started 6 games for Munster. That is SIX. A number between 5 and 7. A few of them were a lot less than perfect as you would expect but there was some promise shown. I don't see how on Earth a decision has been reached that he is an international loose-head prop after 6 professional games. I really hope he is but it's not as if we don't have actually experienced loose heads who are still alive and breathing and playing well.
If he had played 6 games for Leinster, would he now be a capped international?
If he had played 6 games for Ulster, would he now be a capped international?
If he had played 6 games for Connacht, would he now be a capped international?

Answers on a post card to:_
'Of Course he feckin' wouldn't.'
No.1 Cloudcuckoo Land.
Kidneytown.
Munster

You forgot the end of his address.

irishbucsfan

jacothelad wrote: »

Answers on a post card to:_
'Of Course he feckin' wouldn't.'
No.1 Cloudcuckoo Land.
Kidneytown.

You forgot the postcode, the whole thing is

Answers on a post card to:_
'Of Course he feckin' wouldn't.'
No.1 Cloudcuckoo Land.
Kidneytown.
JM08

jacothelad

irishbucsfan wrote: »

You forgot the postcode, the whole thing is

Answers on a post card to:_
'Of Course he feckin' wouldn't.'
No.1 Cloudcuckoo Land.
Kidneytown.
JM08

LOL LOL LOL....:D:D:D

.ak

Okay folks, less of the jabs thanks.

tolosenc

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Jackman was over in september asking for McGrath as a medical joker and was turned down

I can understand not sending McGrath given that it was when Healy was unavailable but I wonder why they didn't offer OConnell

If McGrath is gonna be behind VDM, why not send him off to a mid table French team?

Unless, or course, Heinke is back in the fold in the Boks, in which case we shouldn't keep him, as he'll be unavailable when we really need him.

ssaye

Decent game yesterday.

Sitting beside Conway and Dominic Ryan who hopes to be back before end of year.
SOB, Fitzy due very soon. Next game and probably Clermont.

Munster deserved it overall.
Reid was excellent before a serious knock after about 20 mins, he is a real running 10 at that level, needs work on kicking overall but decent. Marsh was average at best.

Macken was poor unfortunately.

DK was poor and lineout was poor. Lost 80% or something like that. Overthrows and mistimed jumps.

Scrum was EXCELLENT.

Rhys stole a lot of ball 2 v 1, very strong, would like to see more go forward ball.
Jordi is not an 8, but Leinster don't have good 8 replacements. He is very good at 6/7.

Griggs at SH was very good imo, quick tempo and strong.

Left wing was poor, Boyle was better on right.
Adam Byrne was excellent at FB as DK replacement, great step and speed.
They could have stolen a win at the end for better decision making but fair play to Munster.

Fireball07

^Just wondering, any standout Munster players??

How were Hanrahan, Nagle and Butler??

ssaye

Fireball07 wrote: »

^Just wondering, any standout Munster players??

How were Hanrahan, Nagle and Butler??

JJ was good in openfield with ball in hand and kicking from tee overall bar one or two I think, Reid got the better of him in attack/defence for 20 minutes. He was the best player on pitch for his 20 min cameo imo. 3/4 line breaks and handing off people and stepping and making yards. Still needs to learn loads to step up.

Munster lineout was better than Leinster's and Butler was very strong. I was trying to concentrate on Leinster players in review Munster shaded it in backs, lineout, not in scrum and backrow was probably even would give it to munster over all so fair result . Same number of turnovers each roughly. There was some crunching hits on both sides, bloody hell :pac:

McGrath yellow card and try soon after for Munster and Reid getting injured definitely changed the game but was fair, highly entertaining overall and very positive for Irish Rugby.

Fireball07

Thanks for that!

Interesting about Reid though, he does seem to be very talented but he's never really impressed me when I've seen him play for the senior team. Is his preferred position 10 or 12?

And is it just me, or does he seem to pick up a lot of knocks? (that could be completely my imagination).

ssaye

Fireball07 wrote: »

Thanks for that!

Interesting about Reid though, he does seem to be very talented but he's never really impressed me when I've seen him play for the senior team. Is his preferred position 10 or 12?

And is it just me, or does he seem to pick up a lot of knocks? (that could be completely my imagination).

He has not impressed at higher level yet but its a position that he could step into.
I think he is a 12 overall, he just doesn't have the kicking range of a 10.

He is 2 inches taller then Darcy and about 4 pounds lighter roughly. A bit of bulk would help, he is lightening quick but not good with kicking out of hand.

The knock yesterday was worrying, looked to be out cold for 5 mins, Prof Tanner gave a look of thank fcuk when he got up. He kicked a penalty two minutes later so the guy has balls of steel and is a real team player.

Tox56

Fireball07 wrote: »

Thanks for that!

Interesting about Reid though, he does seem to be very talented but he's never really impressed me when I've seen him play for the senior team. Is his preferred position 10 or 12?

And is it just me, or does he seem to pick up a lot of knocks? (that could be completely my imagination).

If you saw the Leinster-Dragons game at the start of the season there was 10 minutes that pretty much summed Reid up. Great break half the length of the field and a good offload that eventually resulted in a try. And then a few minutes later he throws a clumsy intercept pass that results in a try for the Dragons. Incredibly inconsistent. Has the raw materials (great vision, pace, a step, a good pass and a decent boot) but he goes so hot and cold I'm not sure if he will ever earn the trust of the management.

mogwai81

ssaye wrote: »

Decent game yesterday.

Sitting beside Conway and Dominic Ryan who hopes to be back before end of year.
SOB, Fitzy due very soon. Next game and probably Clermont.

Munster deserved it overall.
Reid was excellent before a serious knock after about 20 mins, he is a real running 10 at that level, needs work on kicking overall but decent. Marsh was average at best.

Macken was poor unfortunately.

DK was poor and lineout was poor. Lost 80% or something like that. Overthrows and mistimed jumps.

Scrum was EXCELLENT.

Rhys stole a lot of ball 2 v 1, very strong, would like to see more go forward ball.
Jordi is not an 8, but Leinster don't have good 8 replacements. He is very good at 6/7.

Griggs at SH was very good imo, quick tempo and strong.

Left wing was poor, Boyle was better on right.
Adam Byrne was excellent at FB as DK replacement, great step and speed.
They could have stolen a win at the end for better decision making but fair play to Munster.

What about Conan at 8?

Hagz

Did anyone purchase the History of Leinster DVD today?

ktulu123

Yeah got it this morning, just finished watching it. Really enjoyed it, great interviews with past & present players. Goes through the all the history up to this season. Well worth getting. It's really got me in the mood for the Clermont away game in December. This Ireland ****e cant finish soon enough :P

decisions

I have 3 ordered, they will make great Christmas presents.

ray jay

Good to know the DVD is worth watching.

decisions wrote: »

I have 3 ordered, they will make great Christmas presents.

Just what I was thinking.

tolosenc

Fireball07 wrote: »

Just wondering, any standout Munster players??

Archer.

thomond2006

Rumour off another forum says Cronin is unhappy as second choice hooker at Leinster and has been linked with a move to Grenoble.

Fishooks12

thomond2006 wrote: »

Rumour off another forum says Cronin is unhappy as second choice hooker at Leinster and has been linked with a move to Grenoble.

Would he go back West I wonder?

duckysauce

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Would he go back West I wonder?

off with Jack and the cash if he has any sense

Fishooks12

duckysauce wrote: »

off with Jack and the cash if he has any sense

It would effectively put paid to his international future though. Don't think Leinster will be in anyway keen to let him go either

Fireball07

Tox56 wrote: »

If you saw the Leinster-Dragons game at the start of the season there was 10 minutes that pretty much summed Reid up. Great break half the length of the field and a good offload that eventually resulted in a try. And then a few minutes later he throws a clumsy intercept pass that results in a try for the Dragons. Incredibly inconsistent. Has the raw materials (great vision, pace, a step, a good pass and a decent boot) but he goes so hot and cold I'm not sure if he will ever earn the trust of the management.

I did see that game, and despite that break (which was great), I wasn't really impressed. Bit hit and miss for me...defensively, he doesn't seem that secure either. Obviously he can improve but with competition so intense, he could easily lose out. Although, if he's outperforming Marsh, he probably has a bit more time. I'd love to see him round off his game because at his best, he really could be something special.

thomond2006 wrote: »

Rumour off another forum says Cronin is unhappy as second choice hooker at Leinster and has been linked with a move to Grenoble.

Can't lend much credence to rumours...but I suppose there's no chance of him coming home to Limerick with Sherry and Varley around?

He's got a massive burst of pace but don't think he's much ahead of either of him... he's one player if he became really solid with his darts could be class.

.ak

Question for munster fans.. would you see him becoming 1st choice if he moved to Munster?

I'm a fan of Cronin. I don't think he's at the same level of Strauss but I think the way Leinster are developing front rows he'd do well to stay there. Just wondering what his options could be.

Fishooks12

.ak wrote: »

Question for munster fans.. would you see him becoming 1st choice if he moved to Munster?

I'm a fan of Cronin. I don't think he's at the same level of Strauss but I think the way Leinster are developing front rows he'd do well to stay there. Just wondering what his options could be.

I think Sherry is nipping at his heals already and if he nails down the 2 jersey for us I can't see Cronin in the Irish squad for the 6n's. So no, don't think he would be

Foxtrol

Fireball07 wrote: »

I did see that game, and despite that break (which was great), I wasn't really impressed. Bit hit and miss for me...defensively, he doesn't seem that secure either. Obviously he can improve but with competition so intense, he could easily lose out. Although, if he's outperforming Marsh, he probably has a bit more time. I'd love to see him round off his game because at his best, he really could be something special.

I know it's wrong of me but it will be a while before I get over Reid's performance in the A semi last year, which pretty much handed the match to Munster. He has shown signs of potential though.

The hit and miss issue is a problem with our other young running out-halves, Madigan and JJ for example, so I wouldnt write him off yet.

jamiedav2011

thomond2006 wrote: »

Rumour off another forum says Cronin is unhappy as second choice hooker at Leinster and has been linked with a move to Grenoble.

If that is true, would be very, very stupid of him.
Firstly I don't reckon he has the bulk to survive in France, and secondly, he's gotten huge amounts of chances at Leinster, and will continue to do so, he's just not at the level of Strauss.

Great impact sub though, and he'd be a big loss to Leinster.

Scioch

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

If that is true, would be very, very stupid of him.
Firstly I don't reckon he has the bulk to survive in France, and secondly, he's gotten huge amounts of chances at Leinster, and will continue to do so, he's just not at the level of Strauss.

Great impact sub though, and he'd be a big loss to Leinster.

He's already behind Best and Strauss at international level and his bench impact will probably mean he's end up behind others too. To have any hope of challenging for the Irish shirt he's going to have to be first choice somewhere and play a lot of rugby and develop into a starting option. I dont see that happening at Leinster behind Strauss.

Fireball07

.ak wrote: »

Question for munster fans.. would you see him becoming 1st choice if he moved to Munster?

Like I said, he'd really have to sort his darts. I'm not sure there's much between him and Sherry atm. But, for his own career, if he came to Munster and managed to become first-choice, I think that would improve his Ireland chances.

totallegend

thomond2006 wrote: »

Rumour off another forum says Cronin is unhappy as second choice hooker at Leinster and has been linked with a move to Grenoble.

Cronin is great in the loose, ropey at lineouts, never quite shown to be true international class... he and Jackman are a match made in heaven!

jamiedav2011

Scioch wrote: »

He's already behind Best and Strauss at international level and his bench impact will probably mean he's end up behind others too. To have any hope of challenging for the Irish shirt he's going to have to be first choice somewhere and play a lot of rugby and develop into a starting option. I dont see that happening at Leinster behind Strauss.

Surely beating Strauss to the spot in Leinster would be a better option then than moving to the Top14, being flogged because lack of welfare programme, and also being out of sight.

I'd be hugely surprised if Kidney has a clue about Grenoble, he almost certainly wouldn't pick a player playing there ahead of Best or Strauss.

I can see why Cronin may want to move for his career, but Munster or England would be far better.

Alternatively, he could concentrate on his throwing and become a more complete player than Strauss.

Scioch

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Surely beating Strauss to the spot in Leinster would be a better option then than moving to the Top14, being flogged because lack of welfare programme, and also being out of sight.

I'd be hugely surprised if Kidney has a clue about Grenoble, he almost certainly wouldn't pick a player playing there ahead of Best or Strauss.

I can see why Cronin may want to move for his career, but Munster or England would be far better.

Alternatively, he could concentrate on his throwing and become a more complete player than Strauss.

Will he beat Strauss at Leinster though ? Strauss walked into the Irish squad the second he was eligible. He's arguably the best hooker in the country and Best is no slouch. Yes he can develop but he's going to be hindered and as his rival is also his international rival its going to be pretty tough to get ahead.

Not sure why he'd chose France. Possible he just wants to play where he wont be competing with an Irish hooker and can establish himself as the first choice. Money might also be a nice incentive, and the lifestyle/weather over there might also be a bit nicer than here or England.

Maybe he's giving up on being a steady international. Strauss being brought in has made it pretty much impossible for him to play if he and Best are fit until.