Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread II

.ak

Of all the French clubs please don't go to Racing Johnny... Jesus you'll be told to kick the leather off it all day long.

ssaye

.ak wrote: »

Of all the French clubs please don't go to Racing Johnny... Jesus you'll be told to kick the leather off it all day long.

Just one more thing

9th in the French league today, it would be a massive drop down to go from Leinster to Racing Metro. Toulon, Toulouse, Clermont yes but Racing no.

pickarooney

GerM wrote: »

Not really. Gethin Jenkins lost his starting spot. Luke Charteris did too. Mike Phillips was dropped for the Argentina game. They're still involved but far less secure of their spots than they were before departing.

Was that not more down to them playing (and behaving, in Phillips case) badly and being dropped by their clubs? I can't see Sexton falling out in the same way, although he would have to get used to taking orders from a scrummie

jacothelad wrote: »

There are areas of his game that are nowhere nearly good enough and he needs to be on the money more consistently in order to be considered. His goal kicking has disintegrated as he has come under the malign coaching of Doak, who seems to be able to ruin all of Ulster's goal kickers with impunity. Mincer, NOC and P.J. were all pretty good goal kickers but Doak is the kicking coach. They are now crap at it. Is this a coincidence? No. It isn't. Doak is a very good backs coach according to the players so I'm not insulting his ability overall. Just this one area.

How does a kicking coach work exactly? I know not every #10 has the application of Johnny Wilkinson but I can't fathom how a coach can make a good kicker bad if he's putting in the necessary practice.

irishbucsfan

jacothelad wrote: »

There are areas of his game that are nowhere nearly good enough and he needs to be on the money more consistently in order to be considered. His goal kicking has disintegrated as he has come under the malign coaching of Doak, who seems to be able to ruin all of Ulster's goal kickers with impunity. Mincer, NOC and P.J. were all pretty good goal kickers but Doak is the kicking coach. They are now crap at it. Is this a coincidence? No. It isn't. Doak is a very good backs coach according to the players so I'm not insulting his ability overall. Just this one area.

Jackson would be doing work with Tainton now I'd imagine. So hopefully that side of his game picks back up.

ssaye

"A" game highlights

http://www.ponty.net/leinster-a-v-pontypridd

justsomebloke

Truthfully I think Madigan could step up so I think we should let Sexton have a trial game with racing next week

irishbucsfan

justsomebloke wrote: »

Truthfully I think Madigan could step up so I think we should let Sexton have a trial game with racing next week

Haha could you imagine the mayhem if that was allowed? Exeter's starting team next week would be:

Exeter: 15 Luke Arscott, 14 Sitiveni Sivivatu, 13 Regan King, 12 Wesley Fofana, 11 Napolioni Nalaga, 10 Brock James, 9 Morgan Parra, 8 Damien Chouly, 7 Julien Bardy, 6 Julien Bonnaire, 5 Nathan Hines, 4 Jamie Cudmore, 3 Davit Zirakashvili, 2 Benjamin Kayser, 1 Thomas Domingo.

ArmaniJeanss

awec wrote: »

I really hope Rugby doesn't end up going the way of football with mega-bucks payments to players.

Neil3030 wrote: »

Surely they could cap the overall spending of a club on wages, as is done in the NFL. To be honest, the pool of top class teams is small enough that it could work.

Its perfectly fine for us to be able to offer enough money to tempt Fijians and South Africans to play for us, but when someone with more money than us tempts our players away then its a bad thing which the IRB should put a stop to and cap wages somewhere around the level we pay?

Neil3030

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Its perfectly fine for us to be able to offer enough money to tempt Fijians and South Africans to play for us, but when someone with more money than us tempts our players away then its a bad thing which the IRB should put a stop to and cap wages somewhere around the level we pay?

Eh.. yes?

I care most about the rugby I immediately follow. To hell with the rest of the world.

I don't confess this, I affirm it.

cameramonkey

Fishooks13 wrote: »

Lads we've never lost a top class player to a foreign club, and have yet to do so. I think everyone is getting a bit worked up herre

Cullen, Jennings and Murphy.

.ak

I think by top class Fishooks means a nailed on starter for the Irish side.

Fishooks13

.ak wrote: »

I think by top class Fishooks means a nailed on starter for the Irish side.

This!

Quint2010

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/2013/0114/1224328821975.html

Just posted in The Irish Times..

phog

Sexton will be a huge loss to Leinster but will still be available to Ireland, can't see IRFU outbidding Racing.

Edit to add, score.is say Leinster are holding a press conference today.

Quint2010

phog wrote: »

Sexton will be a huge loss to Leinster but will still be available to Ireland, can't see IRFU outbidding Racing.

Edit to add, score.is say Leinster are holding a press conference today.

Ah the old "hastily convened press conference eh"? Leinster would hardly be holding one to announce their best player is leaving would they?

ssaye

phog wrote: »

Sexton will be a huge loss to Leinster but will still be available to Ireland, can't see IRFU outbidding Racing.

Edit to add, score.is say Leinster are holding a press conference today.

If he starts getting subbed in the 6N after 50-60 mins every game or moved to IC, he might say feck the IRFU too. Who knows, unlikely.

Tox56

I'm pretty sure Leinster always hold press conferences on a Monday?

CIARAN_BOYLE

Quint2010 wrote: »

Ah the old "hastily convened press conference eh"? Leinster would hardly be holding one to announce their best player is leaving would they?

Its probably completely unrelated. Squad update or something

ssaye

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Its probably completely unrelated.

Team squad update as usual I imagine

.ak

Yep they always have a con on mondays, with a press release at 3pm

[Jackass]

I couldn't be less concerned about this rumour.

Absolute horse sh*t if you ask me.

Sexton got fu*ked around in contract negotiations last time iirc, so I wouldn't be surprised if he was bating the IRFU a bit, but I just think there's no way he would leave if offered a reasonable sum, which he will be.

.ak

There's always the incentive of playing for your province. We bang the tribalism drum, but in an era of professionalism it's easy to lose your way and I think the element of emotional connection is important. I think the Hickie quote sums it up aptly.

My dad played for Leinster, my uncle played for Leinster, my cousin played for Leinster. I'm a Leinster lad. I don't make any apologies for it. That's my team.

Ofcourse Sexton should consider what's best for him, but it's not a decision he should jump into either.

phog

ssaye wrote: »

If he starts getting subbed in the 6N after 50-60 mins every game or moved to IC, he might say feck the IRFU too. Who knows, unlikely.

The old school kid syndome, when things don't go his way "it's my ball and I'm going home".

Do you really think Sexton or any other player of his quality would turn down the opportunity to play for his country?

awec

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Its perfectly fine for us to be able to offer enough money to tempt Fijians and South Africans to play for us, but when someone with more money than us tempts our players away then its a bad thing which the IRB should put a stop to and cap wages somewhere around the level we pay?

My point is really that it would be a shame to see wages spiral. This is how football started out and it has got out of control since then.

If it's allowed to get out of control then 10 years from now you could see players getting paid 50 or 60 grand a week if not more.

IMO it would be to the detriment of the game in general.

phog

awec wrote: »

My point is really that it would be a shame to see wages spiral. This is how football started out and it has got out of control since then.

If it's allowed to get out of control then 10 years from now you could see players getting paid 50 or 60 grand a week if not more.

IMO it would be to the detriment of the game in general.

I agree.

Rugby players seems to have a shorter and tougher playing life than their socer counterparts but can we afford the huge wages that the soccer lads get?

It's the big salaries that's killing Scottish and Wlesh rugby and may lead to the death knell of the Rabo League.

artvandelay48

phog wrote: »

The old school kid syndome, when things don't go his way "it's my ball and I'm going home".

Do you really think Sexton or any other player of his quality would turn down the opportunity to play for his country?

It has happened before wrt the 10 position in Ireland and he got away with it as well.

inbodwetrust

Work out in the airport and remarked that it was weird to see Jonny flying out of Terminal 1 on Sunday AM, the morning after a match in which he had suffered a few knocks.

[Jackass]

In an era of massive wages, we would be the next to fall after Scottish, Welsh and Italians. English and French leagues would thrive I feel.

Southern Hemisphere could take a massive hit too.

Our ties to the IRFU, which has served us so well in professional rugby, would be our downfall in a highest bidder takes all world.

awec

[Jackass] wrote: »

In an era of massive wages, we would be the next to fall after Scottish, Welsh and Italians. English and French leagues would thrive I feel.

Southern Hemisphere could take a massive hit too.

Our ties to the IRFU, which has served us so well in professional rugby, would be our downfall in a highest bidder takes all world.

The ties with the IRFU would have to end (else we all become fodder) and you'd see Munster, Ulster etc being bought out by private owners.

Private owners aren't going to listen to the IRFU about player welfare etc. Nor are they going to put up with this NIQ business.

I understand that Irish teams are guilty of luring players with relatively big bucks, but I'd still like the IRB to look in to it sooner rather than later.

I know that as of yet this is all paper talk, but it's just a matter of time before it does eventually happen IMO.

phog

artvandelay48 wrote: »

It has happened before wrt the 10 position in Ireland and he got away with it as well.

So you agreed then too or do you disagree now?

ssaye

phog wrote: »

The old school kid syndome, when things don't go his way "it's my ball and I'm going home".

Do you really think Sexton or any other player of his quality would turn down the opportunity to play for his country?

No

I dont even believe he will go anywhere in fairness

Higher

The IRFU should do everything in their power to keep Sexton. Hes going to be one of the best OHs Ireland have produced and is vital to this Leinster team. Leinster without Sexton pulling the strings is a different outfit.

Someone said the other day (before this news broke so it adds a bit of credibility) that Kidney is urging the IRFU not to renew Sexton's contract and let him go to France. In that scenario he'd have 5 Irish OHs playing simultaneously. I thought it was a load of horse **** but the guy specifically mentioned Racing before it broke which means he might have had some inside scope. I'll be sniffing around over the coming days anyway to see if I can get the full story out of the people that are in the know

irishbucsfan

If the IRB look into it then where do they draw the line? At a level we can afford? At a level the Scottish can afford? At a level the Super XV teams can afford?

Then in NZ/Aussie/England you have external pressure from rugby league which could see good players leaving Union. SANZAR would freak out at that prospect, they'd probably prefer a player to play for Toulon than the Smashiwashi Broncosauruses.

Maybe the IRFU could allow private investors to come in but retain controlling stakes in the sides? I dunno if they'd ever go down that route. Unfortunately there is not enough potential for organic growth within the parameters set by the global popularity of the sport for teams to compete with teams propped up by rich dudes.

I reckon we should all just go away, become rich, pour the money into Leinster and beat them at their own game.

irishbucsfan

Higher wrote: »

The IRFU should do everything in their power to keep Sexton. Hes going to be one of the best OHs Ireland have produced and is vital to this Leinster team. Leinster without Sexton pulling the strings is a different outfit.

Someone said the other day (before this news broke so it adds a bit of credibility) that Kidney is urging the IRFU not to renew Sexton's contract and let him go to France. In that scenario he'd have 5 Irish OHs playing simultaneously. I thought it was a load of horse **** but the guy specifically mentioned Racing before it broke which means he might have had some inside scope. I'll be sniffing around over the coming days anyway to see if I can get the full story out of the people that are in the know

The Racing story has been rumoured for a long time now though, I don't believe Kidney is pushing anyone out.

Fishooks13

Higher wrote: »

The IRFU should do everything in their power to keep Sexton.

No they should not. If Racing are offering 700 or 800k a year the IRFU should not match it. Not at all smart financially.

This might not be about Money anyway. I'm sure Sexton is a very driven guy and he might want a new challenge after a few ridiculously successful few years with Leinster.

jacothelad

GerM wrote: »

Private ownership. Clermont is run by Rene Fontes (owner of Michellin). Toulon is owned by Mourad Boudjellal, millionaire publisher. Racing are owned by Jacky Lorenzetti, real estate millionaire. Max Guazzini, communications tycoon, was the owner of Stade. Alain Afflelou is president of Bayonne and worth big money too.

I'm not entirely sure about Toulouse as they've a vast set up and are extremely powerful but I'm sure they have a decent level of private money coming through the coffers too.

I think Toulouse are financed by Aerospatial.

pickarooney wrote: »

How does a kicking coach work exactly? I know not every #10 has the application of Johnny Wilkinson but I can't fathom how a coach can make a good kicker bad if he's putting in the necessary practice.

Each player has a natural style. Remember when ROG changed his styel unsuccessfully a few tears back. He soon reverted to his natural version. A coach such as Dave Alred can make a huge improvement in even an already decent kicker's success rate and even top guys go to him to 'tweak' things if they feel they have gone off even a little. Doakie tries to make them all fit into one inflexible style. It doesn't work well enough for them unfortunately. Neil was a very good kicker himself. As with most things in sport , natural ability is the most important thing. Doak's hand- eye co-ordination of course was top notch as you would expect in an international cricketer but..... NOC began to regain his natural rhythm at Connacht but now he's back he is mince again.

NOC was a far better kicker at school and also when he started at Ulster, as was P.J. In Niall O'Connor's case for example his planted foot is often too close to the ball, his body's weight transfer is lost and his right foot begins to point upwards. The ball comes off his toe rather than his instep and accuracy becomes a lottery. If you watch P.J.'s failed kicks you can see the same pattern.

CIARAN_BOYLE

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If the IRB look into it then where do they draw the line? At a level we can afford? At a level the Scottish can afford? At a level the Super XV teams can afford?

Then in NZ/Aussie/England you have external pressure from rugby league which could see good players leaving Union. SANZAR would freak out at that prospect, they'd probably prefer a player to play for Toulon than the Smashiwashi Broncosauruses.

I'd love a rule saying that club salaries are to be a certain % of the clubs turnover or something so that the game would be sustainable.

then the Unions can offer a top up to international players.

Higher

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The Racing story has been rumoured for a long time now though, I don't believe Kidney is pushing anyone out.

Has it?

According to the papers he turned down a 1.1million contract from a french club before. If thats the case, then surely he has a strong desire to stay in Leinster.

Just shows how highly rated Sexton is by the way. 1.1 million is a lot in rugby...

Fishooks13

Higher wrote: »

Someone said the other day (before this news broke so it adds a bit of credibility) that Kidney is urging the IRFU not to renew Sexton's contract and let him go to France. In that scenario he'd have 5 Irish OHs playing simultaneously. I thought it was a load of horse **** but the guy specifically mentioned Racing before it broke which means he might have had some inside scope. I'll be sniffing around over the coming days anyway to see if I can get the full story out of the people that are in the know

That Racing story has been floating around for a while. The rest of it is nonsense. Kidney has nothing to do with this.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Higher wrote: »

Has it?

According to the papers he turned down a 1.1million contract from a french club before. If thats the case, then surely he has a strong desire to stay in Leinster.

Just shows how highly rated Sexton is by the way. 1.1 million is a lot in rugby...

IIRC that was 1.1 million over 3 years and he got an offer from the IRFU that was pretty comparable (700K over two years or something).

The above is half remembered so don't put much weight in it

ssaye

Fishooks13 wrote: »

No they should not. If Racing are offering 700 or 800k a year the IRFU should not match it. Not at all smart financially.

This might not be about Money anyway. I'm sure Sexton is a very driven guy and he might want a new challenge after a few ridiculously successful few years with Leinster.

Would you have said the same if the offer was for ROG or POC in their prime. Just wondering?

Higher

Fishooks13 wrote: »

No they should not. If Racing are offering 700 or 800k a year the IRFU should not match it. Not at all smart financially.

This might not be about Money anyway. I'm sure Sexton is a very driven guy and he might want a new challenge after a few ridiculously successful few years with Leinster.

500k should do it with the tax rebate. Pienaar, Payne and Afoa are on 400k each while Heaslip and BOD are rumoured to be 450k.

Sexton is worth the 500k.

ssaye

Higher wrote: »

500k should do it with the tax rebate. Pienaar, Payne and Afoa are on 400k each while Heaslip and BOD are rumoured to be 450k.

Sexton is worth the 500k.

350k now apparently

Fishooks13

ssaye wrote: »

Would you have said the same if the offer was for ROG or POC in their prime. Just wondering?

Yes. I'm all for paying our best players as much as we can afford. But there's a line that has to be drawn for the sake of the finance of our provinces. Like it or not, we simply don't have the budgets to match the French clubs

Podge_irl

Fishooks13 wrote: »

This might not be about Money anyway. I'm sure Sexton is a very driven guy and he might want a new challenge after a few ridiculously successful few years with Leinster.

If that were the reason would he really be going to Racing? Decent chance they won't even be in the HEC next year.

Fishooks13

Higher wrote: »

500k should do it with the tax rebate. Pienaar, Payne and Afoa are on 400k each while Heaslip and BOD are rumoured to be 450k.

Sexton is worth the 500k.

Yes but my point is that if Racing offer him something we can't afford and he wants it matched by Leinster they shouldn't.

ssaye

Podge_irl wrote: »

If that were the reason would he really be going to Racing? Decent chance they won't even be in the HEC next year.

Exactly go to the best teams if you one of the best in the world not a mid table side

Higher

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

IIRC that was 1.1 million over 3 years and he got an offer from the IRFU that was pretty comparable (700K over two years or something).

The above is half remembered so don't put much weight in it

I don't think so... Stade were offering 500k per year and that wasn't even the best offer...

phog

Higher wrote: »

The IRFU should do everything in their power to keep Sexton. Hes going to be one of the best OHs Ireland have produced and is vital to this Leinster team. Leinster without Sexton pulling the strings is a different outfit.

True

Someone said the other day (before this news broke so it adds a bit of credibility) that Kidney is urging the IRFU not to renew Sexton's contract and let him go to France. In that scenario he'd have 5 Irish OHs playing simultaneously. I thought it was a load of horse **** but the guy specifically mentioned Racing before it broke which means he might have had some inside scope. I'll be sniffing around over the coming days anyway to see if I can get the full story out of the people that are in the know

I don't know anyone in the IRFU and I don't know Kidney but I know this is complete and utter horse ****e. Are people laying awake at night time dreaming this stuff up, it's about the only real explanation that I can see for such muck.

ssaye

phog wrote: »

True



I don't know anyone in the IRFU and I don't know Kidney but I know this is complete and utter horse ****e. Are people laying awake at night time dreaming this stuff up, it's about the only real explanation that I can see for such muck.

Yes aren't well all:pac: