Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread II

Foxtrol

Chabals Beard wrote: »

This might have been discussed before but is anyone else dissapointed with Howlett this year? He has done fine as captain but in terms of being a attacking force he has been poor, I think he has put on too much upper body weight and it has dented his speed a lot

I'd say his age is the biggest factor in his loss of speed. He's been getting slower for a number of years now and has probably changed his training/body shape to accommodate the need to change his playing style a bit.

Foxtrol

thomond2006 wrote: »

Well Munster did need an outside back with our injury issues (LOD, Zebo, Earls) and Sheridan is in because he's ahead of Williams in the pecking order now.

I think the injuries to the backs requiring Dineen to come in is a red herring.

I doubt that all three of the above will not be fit for the quarter final but even if they aren't for centre and back three there are:

Denis Hurley, Felix Jones, Doug Howlett, Danny Barnes, JJ Hanrahan, Johne Murphy, Casey Laulala, James Downey, Ian Keatley.

No matter what way people try to spin it, it's not a vote of confidence in Stander.

thomond2006

Foxtrol wrote: »

Denis Hurley, Felix Jones, Doug Howlett, Danny Barnes, JJ Hanrahan, Johne Murphy, Casey Laulala, James Downey, Ian Keatley.

No matter what way people try to spin it, it's not a vote of confidence in Stander.

Barnes has barely figured this season, I'm not sure the management have the confidence in Barnes to be in the HEC 23. Likewise Johne Murphy. Then again Dineen hasn't played HEC at all unlike those two...

I'm not trying to spin anything, I've no agenda for or against Stander. I don't think it's a good sign for him but IMO getting Dineen and Sheridan into the HEC squad was more important.

Podge_irl

If Munster are reduced to playing Dineen in the HEC knock-outs they are in trouble anyway. Don't see how its anything but a massive snub.

I'm not saying one way or the other whether he deserved to be in the squad btw, but given the hype about him when he arrived its decidedly odd.

jamiedav2011

thomond2006 wrote: »

Barnes has barely figured this season, I'm not sure the management have the confidence in Barnes to be in the HEC 23. Likewise Johne Murphy. Then again Dineen hasn't played HEC at all unlike those two...

I'm not trying to spin anything, I've no agenda for or against Stander. I don't think it's a good sign for him but IMO getting Dineen and Sheridan into the HEC squad was more important.

Has Dineen featured more than Barnes and Murphy this year?!

I'd far rather have Stander to come on than a spare reserve back. Makes far more sense for later rounds aswell.

I mean in the unlikely event that Zebo, Earls and LOD are out for the HEC, they could still play

Murray, ROG, Hurley, Downey, LLL, Howlett, Jones

With Keatley and one of Hanrahan, Murphy or Barnes on the bench.

Make no mistake about it, it's Stander losing out for a fairly weak supposed reason.

thomond2006

Has Dineen featured more than Barnes and Murphy this year?!

Sorry that was a dopey point I made, I put it down to college stress + lack of sleep. :P

Well I thought Dineen had a good game for the As against Leinster.

I'll just go and find more straws to clutch.

Podge_irl

thomond2006 wrote: »

Well I thought Dineen had a good game for the As against Leinster.

I'm sure he did, but unless you're POC or Brad Thorn you don't go from an A provincial game to Heineken Cup knock-outs without people worrying!

To my mind, Stander could have brought something constructive - an impact if even only off the bench - whereas adding Dineen means covering for something that probably won't happen and if it does they're likely screwed anyway.

yimrsg

Could it be that Stander's wedding/honeymoon coincides with a HC weekend and he'd be unavailable?

thomond2006

yimrsg wrote: »

Could it be that Stander's wedding/honeymoon coincides with a HC weekend and he'd be unavailable?

Hardly, I doubt his employers would be enamoured with that sort of planning.

Foxtrol

thomond2006 wrote: »

I'll just go and find more straws to clutch.

There you go thomond:

yimrsg wrote:

Could it be that Stander's wedding/honeymoon coincides with a HC weekend and he'd be unavailable?

CatFromHue

yimrsg wrote: »

Could it be that Stander's wedding/honeymoon coincides with a HC weekend and he'd be unavailable?

I'd say not. Even if he'd have stayed in SA he'd have rugby on this weekend with the SuperXV.

jamiedav2011

Ah come on lads! His honeymoon for feck sake!

We've heard it's the fact he's 'played so much rugby' and also some faux backline tactical reason, it doesn't really wash though.

Clareman

Stander is a project player who could have gone almost 18 months of playing constantly if he came straight up here into the team after the Super 15 was over, the guy is probably being put on a program to be ready for next season.

Podge_irl

Clareman wrote: »

Stander is a project player who could have gone almost 18 months of playing constantly if he came straight up here into the team after the Super 15 was over, the guy is probably being put on a program to be ready for next season.

He's barely played since coming up north.

When it gets to HEC knock-out time you aren't worrying about planning for next season...

Clareman

He played 1 game and broke a bone, don't know how that recuperation went. He's still young, plenty of more HEC knock outs to come. They might also feel that the players that have been here longer are more worthy of a place.

Hey, we're all grasping at straws here, the man made some impact when he arrived, it's a mystery to me how he isn't more involved if he's fit

Foxtrol

Clareman wrote: »

He played 1 game and broke a bone, don't know how that recuperation went. He's still young, plenty of more HEC knock outs to come. They might also feel that the players that have been here longer are more worthy of a place.

Hey, we're all grasping at straws here, the man made some impact when he arrived, it's a mystery to me how he isn't more involved if he's fit

People are only grasping at straws because they are trying to give every explanation/excuse possible except the most likely one for when a guy misses out being selected for a squad - that he has failed to impress the coaches enough to warrant selection above another player.

Eod100

Foxtrol wrote: »

People are only grasping at straws because they are trying to give every explanation/excuse possible except the most likely one for when a guy misses out being selected for a squad - that he has failed to impress the coaches enough to warrant selection above another player.

3 tries in 6 games?

totallegend

This thread is comedy gold.

thomond2006

I don't think any of the other backrowers are capable of doing this.

If their plan is to "manage" him till next season, then that puts a lot of pressure on him to perform next season!

Fireball07

The non-selection of Stander is baffling.


There is something wrong. I hope it's something to do with being eased in, but it's not. In my opinion, he's definitely good enough. He's a physical presence that none of the other back rows often, he's a good ball carrier and a strong tackler. I don't know what has happened, but it's really strange.

thomond2006

totallegend wrote: »

This thread is comedy gold.

Glad to be of service.

Quint2010

Fireball07 wrote: »

The non-selection of Stander is baffling.


There is something wrong. I hope it's something to do with being eased in, but it's not. In my opinion, he's definitely good enough. He's a physical presence that none of the other back rows often, he's a good ball carrier and a strong tackler. I don't know what has happened, but it's really strange.

Agreed. Think he is a great player. Maybe he is a troublemaker or something?

Wexfordboy89

yimrsg wrote: »

Could it be that Stander's wedding/honeymoon coincides with a HC weekend and he'd be unavailable?

dont think hes getting married until the summer.bit strange alrite from looking at some of his twitter posts he seems happy to be here and so does the missus

LorcanN

Fitzgerald being linked with Munster? Seems like an unlikely situation and even if true would be a very risky signing. http://joe.ie/rugby/rugby-news/which-leinster-star-has-been-linked-with-a-move-to-munster-0035707-1

CoDy1

LorcanN wrote: »

Fitzgerald being linked with Munster? Seems like an unlikely situation and even if true would be a very risky signing. http://joe.ie/rugby/rugby-news/which-leinster-star-has-been-linked-with-a-move-to-munster-0035707-1

Maybe risky but I'd have Fitz in Red anyday. Great player. Perfect replacement for oldman Dougie;)

phog

CoDy1 wrote: »

Maybe risky but I'd have Fitz in Red anyday. Great player. Perfect replacement for oldman Dougie;)

Strong rumour in Limerick this morning from a usually reliable source that Fitz has signed for Munster.

CatFromHue

phog wrote: »

Strong rumour in Limerick this morning from a usually reliable source that Fitz has signed for Munster.

I genuinely would be amazed!

It was my understanding that Munster couldn't offer him more money than Leinster so financially it doesn't make sense.

I have to say I think he'll be a loss to Leinster but mainly because we're losing so many other back three players.

phog

Fireball07 wrote: »

The non-selection of Stander is baffling.


There is something wrong. I hope it's something to do with being eased in, but it's not. In my opinion, he's definitely good enough. He's a physical presence that none of the other back rows often, he's a good ball carrier and a strong tackler. I don't know what has happened, but it's really strange.

How could he be added, last time round he was injured when Coughlan was added, of the three added yesterday, one had to be a front row, Sheridan was added to replace Stringer who's staying in Bath and Dineen is added as cover for our injured backs. Stander may have been an option there but the experiment of using forwards as backs hasn't worked too well in the past.

phog

CatFromHue wrote: »

I genuinely would be amazed!

It was my understanding that Munster couldn't offer him more money than Leinster so financially it doesn't make sense.

I have to say I think he'll be a loss to Leinster but mainly because we're losing so many other back three players.

On the money thing, he was injured last time around and may not have got a great deal, he's injured again this time so maybe Munster could raise the offer in that they're willing to take a punt on him? Do the same rules apply to injured players? Maybe it's nothing to do with money, maybe he's happier with what was offered around game time or what position he'll play at.

jamiedav2011

phog wrote: »

How could he be added, last time round he was injured when Coughlan was added, of the three added yesterday, one had to be a front row, Sheridan was added to replace Stringer who's staying in Bath and Dineen is added as cover for our injured backs. Stander may have been an option there but the experiment of using forwards as backs hasn't worked too well in the past.

So you reckon Dineen will be needed and LOD, Earls and Zebo will all be out then? Even if they are, Munster have lots of reserve backs in the HEC squad.

It's also about the possibilities if Munster win in London. I'd prefer to have the option of Stander in Clermont than have Dineen as an unused squad player for the remaining knockout games.

Any way it's spun, it's a strange decision.

CatFromHue

phog wrote: »

On the money thing, he was injured last time around and may not have got a great deal, he's injured again this time so maybe Munster could raise the offer in that they're willing to take a punt on him? Do the same rules apply to injured players? Maybe it's nothing to do with money, maybe he's happier with what was offered around game time or what position he'll play at.

I remember in Jackman's book and Mike McCarthy moving to Leinster that the provinces couldn't get into a financial bidding war so it can't be money related.

The game time doesn't make sense as he's usually in the first team and with Nacewa going it removes some competition.

The position could be the only one if he wants to play full back, but then if Jones finds form again that could backfire badly.

phog

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

So you reckon Dineen will be needed and LOD, Earls and Zebo will all be out then? Even if they are, Munster have lots of reserve backs in the HEC squad.

It's also about the possibilities if Munster win in London. I'd prefer to have the option of Stander in Clermont than have Dineen as an unused squad player for the remaining knockout games.

Any way it's spun, it's a strange decision.

Only strange if you want look for it. It's very simple really but if posters want to make something of it, off you go.

phog

CatFromHue wrote: »

I remember in Jackman's book and Mike McCarthy moving to Leinster that the provinces couldn't get into a financial bidding war so it can't be money related.

The game time doesn't make sense as he's usually in the first team and with Nacewa going it removes some competition.

The position could be the only one if he wants to play full back, but then if Jones finds form again that could backfire badly.

I didn't read Jackman's book but McCarthy wasn't injured at the time of contract discussions Luke is and that could have a baring on how the offers were made.

CatFromHue

phog wrote: »

I didn't read Jackman's book but McCarthy wasn't injured at the time of contract discussions Luke is and that could have a baring on how the offers were made.

Well you didn't miss much in not reading Jackman's book anyway :pac:

Still though I can't see the provinces being allowed to offer a player different deals financially whether he's injured or not.

jamiedav2011

phog wrote: »

Only strange if you want look for it. It's very simple really but if posters want to make something of it, off you go.

Well it depends on your opinion, only simple if you want to spin it that way.

shuffol

phog wrote: »

I didn't read Jackman's book but McCarthy wasn't injured at the time of contract discussions Luke is and that could have a baring on how the offers were made.

If available would Stander make your HEC matchday squad Phog?

phog

shuffol wrote: »

If available would Stander make your HEC matchday squad Phog?

Ahead of Williams, yes but I'm not sure other than that. He's been a great servant to Munster and Ireland but he's time has come.

If we pick up a few backrow injuries this will be a bad decision if we pick up a few injuries in our backs putting Dineen back into the squad will be the correct decision. It's crystal ball gazing at the moment

I was at the Italy game and got chatting to a few lads as we waited for the tram, one of them asked me who would replace Earls on the H/cup squad and I said Dineen so I'm not one bit surprised with the 2 lads being added.

CIARAN_BOYLE

phog wrote: »

On the money thing, he was injured last time around and may not have got a great deal, he's injured again this time so maybe Munster could raise the offer in that they're willing to take a punt on him? Do the same rules apply to injured players? Maybe it's nothing to do with money, maybe he's happier with what was offered around game time or what position he'll play at.

Maybe Leinster want him to pass a medical before his contract starts while Munster are willing to take him as is whether he is broken or not.

To be honest we don't have a clue and are outsiders looking in. On one level I would feel betrayed if Fitz went anywhere unless it was a massive salary difference after Leinster stuck by him last season knowing that he wouldn't be fit for the first half of the season.

ed7890

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Maybe Leinster want him to pass a medical before his contract starts while Munster are willing to take him as is whether he is broken or not.

To be honest we don't have a clue and are outsiders looking in. On one level I would feel betrayed if Fitz went anywhere unless it was a massive salary difference after Leinster stuck by him last season knowing that he wouldn't be fit for the first half of the season.

How did all this Fitz to Munster stuff come out again? Was it just from the Conor George piece on Friday?

shuffol

phog wrote: »

Ahead of Williams, yes but I'm not sure other than that. He's been a great servant to Munster and Ireland but he's time has come.

If we pick up a few backrow injuries this will be a bad decision if we pick up a few injuries in our backs putting Dineen back into the squad will be the correct decision. It's crystal ball gazing at the moment

I was at the Italy game and got chatting to a few lads as we waited for the tram, one of them asked me who would replace Earls on the H/cup squad and I said Dineen so I'm not one bit surprised with the 2 lads being added.

I was more referring to where you'd put him in your pecking order of backrows, I think right now Penney doesnt see him as one of his top 4 backrows and thats all it boils down to. If he saw him in his starting lineup then he'd be in the squad.

phog

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Maybe Leinster want him to pass a medical before his contract starts while Munster are willing to take him as is whether he is broken or not.

To be honest we don't have a clue and are outsiders looking in. On one level I would feel betrayed if Fitz went anywhere unless it was a massive salary difference after Leinster stuck by him last season knowing that he wouldn't be fit for the first half of the season.

A blind man can see he's broke at the moment, why would either need a medical to know this?

CIARAN_BOYLE

phog wrote: »

A blind man can see he's broke at the moment, why would either need a medical to know this?

I mean maybe Leinster's offer is contingent on a medical at the start of the season or something so if he doesn't pass Leinster have an out.

I dunno

phog

shuffol wrote: »

I was more referring to where you'd put him in your pecking order of backrows, I think right now Penney doesnt see him as one of his top 4 backrows and thats all it boils down to. If he saw him in his starting lineup then he'd be in the squad.

Sorry, I read your post as Stringer not Stander. Yes, I'd love to see Stander in the H/cup but that's based on hearsay rather that what I've seen. But where could he have been squeezed in, when he arrived Coughlan got the available spot and to be honest he fully deserved it. Now IMHO, with Earls' injury and Williams looking really off form two backs being added was the correct choice.

phog

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I mean maybe Leinster's offer is contingent on a medical at the start of the season or something so if he doesn't pass Leinster have an out.

I dunno

None of us know but it seems that his injury will have him out at the start of the season anyway so again why would a medical be sought by Leinster unless they want rid off him and know he'll fail the medical. Some posters like to look for conspiracy theories. ;-)

irishbucsfan

Are Munster really that stuck for centers without Earls?

Foxtrol

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Are Munster really that stuck for centers without Earls?

No, as I pointed out earlier below are the centres and back three available to Munster in the HC (presuming that Earls, LOD, Zebo all miss the Quinns game which I dont think is that likely)

Denis Hurley, Felix Jones, Doug Howlett, Danny Barnes, JJ Hanrahan, Johne Murphy, Casey Laulala, James Downey, Ian Keatley

Bolded are the ones that can play centre (Murphy a push I know).

There's no shortage of players there so the only thing I can take from it is that Penney believes Dineen is greater improvement to the backs that are on offer than Stander is to the backrow that are in the squad. Not sure who that's a bigger slight on, the back options or Stander.

trouttrout

Heard off a very reliable source there that it's more or less a done deal

Mario Jardel

are Munster being linked with any NIQ players?

CIARAN_BOYLE

Mario Jardel wrote: »

are Munster being linked with any NIQ players?

Lualala WDP and Stander are contracted, while Munster want to renew Botha. Howlett is the one over, Munster aren't going to look at a NIQ and push their captain out.

Clareman

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Lualala WDP and Stander are contracted, while Munster want to renew Botha. Howlett is the one over, Munster aren't going to look at a NIQ and push their captain out.

Stander is a project player.