Hypocrites and "Animal lovers"

Scioch

I know a guy who's a vegetarian and self proclaimed animal lover. Always banging on about the poor old animals and watching those animal cop shows. Doesn't eat meat because he reckons its promoting unnecessary animal cruelty.

No problem with that even if I wouldnt agree. But, he owns a dog which spends 99% of its time in a tiny back garden. Brought for walks once or twice a week and left at home all day alone while himself is at work. He has it trained to beg, wait, sit and whatever else so he's put a lot of effort into forcing this dog to do what he wants it to do.

Here's a guy who cant stand animal cruelty, quite often gives out about people getting animals and not looking after them, wont eat meat so animals wont suffer. Yet it doesnt cross his mind for one second that owning, controlling and basically imprisoning a dog because he gets a kick out of it is wrong.

Why is it fine to own another animal, lock them up, force them to obey commands and use them whenever we are in the mood ? Whether its dog in a back garden who only gets a run when the owner is in the mood or a budgie circling a cage for years on end looking for an escape its wrong to imprison animals like this.

So can anyone who claims to love animals really care about animals when they own pets ? Or are they just hypocrites who put their own wants ahead of the welfare of an animal ? I'm sure owners wouldnt like to see anything bad happen to their pets but really you have just taken its life away and made it a slave to you for its entire existence. Do ya really care all that much ?

Hande hoche!

Seems like the dog got a ruff deal.

Gummy Panda

People are cúnts. Just accept it and move on

flutterflye

I have a cat - she's more free than I am.
She's a manipulative little fecker - she owns me more than I own her.

christmas2012

Its better to have a trained dog than an unruly four legged creature with teeth,that is restless..

If it gets walks and the freedom to run a bit of green everyday,watered and fed,as far as the dog is concerned they know no better and would consider it a good life as opposed to being locked up in a cage(smelling its own toilet with hardly any room to swing a tail) on death row in some dog pound..

Father Damo

Does he feed the dog meat sourced tins and meal out of curiousity? Cant really understand if he refuses to eat slaughtered farm animals but feeds the same to the dog tbh.

Gummy Panda

flutterflye wrote: »

I have a cat - she's more free than I am.
She's a manipulative little fecker - she owns me more than I own her.

Cats are awesome especially when little kitties. Pet their furry head and they fall asleep purring.

GarIT

If he actually cared about animals he wouldn't keep one. Maybe he is too ignorant to realise what he us doing.

I actually caught someone out before because they were complaining about how a zoo was cruel for keeping animals locked up while they had a dog at home. There excuse was "but we love our dog and look after it.

Even thought I don't like animals I think it is cruel to lock them up for people amusement. They only have one life and should be free to do what they want. Sometimes it is necessary on farms but that's just unfortunate.

mattjack

flutterflye wrote: »

I have a cat - she's more free than I am.
She's a manipulative little fecker - she owns me more than I own her.

I have some fish in a tank, the bastards drove over my car last week.

DonkeyStyle \o/

Dogs should be released back into their natural habitat... where ever that is... the park maybe.

Scioch

christmas2012 wrote: »

Its better to have a trained dog than an unruly four legged creature with teeth,that is restless..

If it gets walks and the freedom to run a bit of green everyday,watered and fed,as far as the dog is concerned they know no better and would consider it a good life as opposed to being locked up in a cage(smelling its own toilet with hardly any room to swing a tail) on death row in some dog pound..

Same could be said for slavery couldnt it ? Better to own an African child and give them a good life doing your bidding than let them live a life of misery in Africa.

The reason there are so many dogs around is because everyone has to have a dog. There is a lot of them put down every year and impounded yes but taking them in (although helping that one dog) does nothing for the problem which is caused by everyone wanting a dog.

christmas2012

Dogs should be released back into their natural habitat... where ever that is... the park maybe

thats a bad idea esp if they are untrained,dogs need some sort of structure either in the dog pack form or human companionship..

GarIT

christmas2012 wrote: »

Its better to have a trained dog than an unruly four legged creature with teeth,that is restless..

If it gets walks and the freedom to run a bit of green everyday,watered and fed,as far as the dog is concerned they know no better and would consider it a good life as opposed to being locked up in a cage(smelling its own toilet with hardly any room to swing a tail) on death row in some dog pound..

I don't think its fair to lock something up for 23 hours a day. I doubt most people would like it if they were locked in your sitting room except for at most an hour a day.

Scioch

Father Damo wrote: »

Does he feed the dog meat sourced tins and meal out of curiousity? Cant really understand if he refuses to eat slaughtered farm animals but feeds the same to the dog tbh.

He feeds it them pellety biscuit things. I'd imagine there is meat in there somewhere though yeah, didnt cop that myself.

GarIT

christmas2012 wrote: »

thats a bad idea esp if they are untrained,dogs need some sort of structure either in the dog pack form or human companionship..

I don't think so, natural selection will sort it all out. How do you know dogs need human companionship? Dogs could hate humans but put up with them for fear of being put down.

christmas2012

GarIT wrote: »

I don't think its fair to lock something up for 23 hours a day. I doubt most people would like it if they were locked in your sitting room except for at most an hour a day.

True i see your point,we have a couple of dog owners on this road where i am,and some of the owners are employed some are unemployed and one is self employed.

The self employed fella brings the dog everywhere in the car-trailer with him,the unemployed lad brings the dog on walks at least 3 times a day and plays ball with him on the green.

The employed fella doesnt see his dog much but manages to bring him for a one time walk everyday,spends the most time with the dog on weekends,but we do hear him barking a bit out of frustration of seeing nobody and having no stimulation so it does suck a little for the dog..

I think if youre to get a dog while working,a dog sitter would be worth getting maybe for 2 hours a day to bring him/her for a walk for the 2 hours,it would kind of break up the day a little..

Shryke

Dogs have evolved alongside humans for thousands of years. They are domesticated animals and function as part of a human family or as a companion. A wolf would be another story. Good luck keeping one of those.

Keeping a bird with clipped wings or the like is fairly sad.

mattjack

GarIT wrote: »

I don't think so, natural selection will sort it all out. How do you know dogs need human companionship? Dogs could hate humans but put up with them for fear of being put down.

Ordinarily I would argue with Christmas, just out of boredom etc... but how in the name of Jayzus would a dog know its to be put down ?

OhLongJohnson

Jaysus, of all the things a person can be, they'll make sure you know it if they're f**king vegetarians.

Edit: Just saw GarIT filling the thread despite nobody replying to him with his usual nonsense. /exits thread.

Scioch

Shryke wrote: »

Dogs have evolved alongside humans for thousands of years. They are domesticated animals and function as part of a human family or as a companion. A wolf would be another story. Good luck keeping one of those.

Keeping a bird with clipped wings or the like is fairly sad.

How much can something evolve in a few thousand years though ? Humans havent evolved that much in the last hundred thousand years. Dogs although domesticated to a certain degree will revert back to pack hunters pretty quickly when in that environment so how far have they moved on from wild animals really ?

Zebra3

What I find odd is meat eaters who complain about animal cruelty.

That's bizarre!!!!

Jen Pigs Fly

I work in a pet shop, the amount of pure shíte people feed their animals while claiming they 'love' them.

9 times out of 10 when I suggest a good, high quality food I get a "Oh I don't want to spend that on my dog" and continue to feed the dog crap.

pet peeve, if you loved your dog/animal like you claimed, you would be willing to go the extra mile to feed them properly.

Pushtrak

DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote: »

Dogs should be released back into their natural habitat... where ever that is... the park maybe.

christmas2012 wrote: »

thats a bad idea esp if they are untrained,dogs need some sort of structure either in the dog pack form or human companionship..

Its a joke. Dogs are domesticated animals. Keeping animals as pets isn't some type of cruelty, as long as they aren't kept in some cruel conditions. Which'd be a whole other discussion. It isn't inherently cruel, just for instance, locking a dog up in the house while being off all day would be. It's actually the extremist, PETA view that keeping animals as pets is animal cruelty.

war_child

I just had to comment on the original comment ...Firstly having an animal is not holding the animal against its will especially dogs ..as dogs are reliant animals unlike cats who can hunt for their food dogs rely on us (as responsible pet owners) to supply them with their food.

Secondly FORCING (as you so ignorantly put it) an animal to sit, lie down fetch and whatever other commands he can make the dog do in my book something to be praised for, as hes obviously taken a lot of time out to teach his dog those commands.better to have a dog that can be controlled when around strange people indicates qualities of a good and responsible owner...

Thirdly any animal that has any kind of freedom be it a back garden one or 2 walks a week is still a hell of alot better than most rescue dogs which are either tied up or forced to live in wrecks of cars or even worse cramped cage conditions without food or water.

I say all this as i am a dog owner and every point you made about your friend run along the lines of my situation. My dog is in the field everyday from10 am till 2 pm and let back out at 6 till 10 ....he is only brought in for food ...i also spent many hours training my dog to sit, lie down , roll over and beg ..as he is a boxer he is a working dog and loves showing off infront of people what he can do ...he knows if he does it he gets a treat ...he was also a rescue dog and wen he was found was tied to a caravan and left for dead ...the dog he was wen brought to the shelter is a far cry from the dog he is now. Altho i am not a vegetarian i do watch the animal programmes on tele and i am disgusted by the way most of the people on those shows treat there animals ...and for you to even consider comparing those people who genuinly go out of their way to harm their pets to your friends situation is both ignorant and disrespectful ..I wonder what he would do if he ever found out what you were saying Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....

Scioch

xxxJennyxxx wrote: »

I work in a pet shop, the amount of pure shíte people feed their animals while claiming they 'love' them.

9 times out of 10 when I suggest a good, high quality food I get a "Oh I don't want to spend that on my dog" and continue to feed the dog crap.

pet peeve, if you loved your dog/animal like you claimed, you would be willing to go the extra mile to feed them properly.

Then again working in a place that keeps countless animals locked in confined spaces ready to sell to anyone with a few quid knowing a lot of them will probably die of neglect I'm not sure you have the moral high ground on that. No offence.

Jen Pigs Fly

LordSmeg wrote: »

Then again working in a place that keeps countless animals locked in confined spaces ready to sell to anyone with a few quid knowing a lot of them will probably die of neglect I'm not sure you have the moral high ground on that. No offence.

The shop I work in has no animals. We do not sell them on principal.
I went through an intensive 40 hour training course just to work in a retail shop, and am going for my pet nutrition status soon enough. We never sell anything to someone who does not know how to use it/how it works/etc.

I do have the moral high ground

christmas2012

[/QUOTE] I don't think so, natural selection will sort it all out. How do you know dogs need human companionship? Dogs could hate humans but put up with them for fear of being put down.

They dont know they are going to be put down though they cant comprehend human voices when we are talking and chattering,they can pick up on cues though,what they would think if you were getting ready to put them in the car etc,is that youre going to take them to the pound,they wont know about the putting down bit until its too late..

blatantrereg

I've heard you can get vegetarian dogfood. Cats require meat, on the other hand.

I dont see anything wrong with keeping dogs as pets, so long as you take proper responsibility for them. Different breeds have different requirements for space, socialisation and exercise. It is cruel to keep a dog without taking care of its needs. I dont think it's cruel to train a dog. In fact it's highly irresponsible to keep strong or potentially aggressive breeds without training them properly.

GarIT

christmas2012 wrote: »

True i see your point,we have a couple of dog owners on this road where i am,and some of the owners are employed some are unemployed and one is self employed.

The self employed fella brings the dog everywhere in the car-trailer with him,the unemployed lad brings the dog on walks at least 3 times a day and plays ball with him on the green.

The employed fella doesnt see his dog much but manages to bring him for a one time walk everyday,spends the most time with the dog on weekends,but we do hear him barking a bit out of frustration of seeing nobody and having no stimulation so it does suck a little for the dog..

I think if youre to get a dog while working,a dog sitter would be worth getting maybe for 2 hours a day to bring him/her for a walk for the 2 hours,it would kind of break up the day a little..

I don't have time for this thread so I won't say too much but that's a lot more than in my area, we have 2 dog owners on our road one of the owners let her two dogs onto the green for probably never more than an hour each day and the other dog owner never lets his dog out its in the back all day long.

Another poster said about dogs being domesticated, if that is the case, which it probably is in a perfect world we should ban the breeding of domesticated dogs. Close the pounds and the dogs that can survive will, natural selection will make some dogs evolve and survive.

I only agree with captivity for two reasons, food production and increasing the numbers of animals, like when they breed more of those tigers that there's only 200 left and would die out otherwise.

Shenshen

I would say it depends on how they treat said pets.

We're both vegetarian, and we "own" 4 cats.
2 of them we adopted, the other 2 adopted us by showing up at the back door and moving in.
They all of them seem happy enough to live here, the only rules to obey in the house are to use the litter tray, not not jumping up on the kitchen counter top and table.
Especially with the 2 cats who adopted us, I cannot think they would have done that if they didn't want to.
And there are definite advantages for them : they get fed regularly, they've got a warm and cosy place to sleep, lots of attention, and get free healthcare.

I don't really think it compares to slavery...

Shenshen

xxxJennyxxx wrote: »

I work in a pet shop, the amount of pure shíte people feed their animals while claiming they 'love' them.

9 times out of 10 when I suggest a good, high quality food I get a "Oh I don't want to spend that on my dog" and continue to feed the dog crap.

pet peeve, if you loved your dog/animal like you claimed, you would be willing to go the extra mile to feed them properly.

*lol The people at our local pet shop know us by name, we're the ones buying 2 60kg bags of Royal Canin for cats every month

GarIT

mattjack wrote: »

Ordinarily I would argue with Christmas, just out of boredom etc... but how in the name of Jayzus would a dog know its to be put down ?

I have no idea, the dog could fear loosing its food source because it know it can't feed itself, being put down was possibly a bad example but maybe dogs can communicate with each other and they know.

mattjack

GarIT wrote: »

I have no idea, the dog could fear loosing its food source because it know it can't feed itself, being put down was possibly a bad example but maybe dogs can communicate with each other and they know.

Okaaaaaay........

Jen Pigs Fly

Shenshen wrote: »

*lol The people at our local pet shop know us by name, we're the ones buying 2 60kg bags of Royal Canin for cats every month

60Kg bags? Sure it's not 15kg? :P

mattjack

Shenshen wrote: »

*lol The people at our local pet shop know us by name, we're the ones buying 2 60kg bags of Royal Canin for cats every month

A 60kg bag ? I buy 15 kg bags and can just carry them.

Scioch

war_child wrote: »

I just had to comment on the original comment ...Firstly having an animal is not holding the animal against its will especially dogs ..as dogs are reliant animals unlike cats who can hunt for their food dogs rely on us (as responsible pet owners) to supply them with their food.

How is it not holding them against their will ? Part of owning a dog is keeping it locked up. Of course its against their will, dogs have evolved to hunt and run not sit in back gardens.

Secondly FORCING (as you so ignorantly put it) an animal to sit, lie down fetch and whatever other commands he can make the dog do in my book something to be praised for, as hes obviously taken a lot of time out to teach his dog those commands.better to have a dog that can be controlled when around strange people indicates qualities of a good and responsible owner...

It is forcing them to obey, they dont want to sit or stand or beg they want food and that basic want is exploited in an effort to better control them. I'm sure its great to be able to control them but if its wrong to have them in the first place as I think it is then training them shouldnt come into it.

Thirdly any animal that has any kind of freedom be it a back garden one or 2 walks a week is still a hell of alot better than most rescue dogs which are either tied up or forced to live in wrecks of cars or even worse cramped cage conditions without food or water.

Same argument as "shur I dont kick my dog half as hard as that guy".

I say all this as i am a dog owner and every point you made about your friend run along the lines of my situation. My dog is in the field everyday from10 am till 2 pm and let back out at 6 till 10 ....he is only brought in for food ...i also spent many hours training my dog to sit, lie down , roll over and beg ..as he is a boxer he is a working dog and loves showing off infront of people what he can do ...he knows if he does it he gets a treat ...he was also a rescue dog and wen he was found was tied to a caravan and left for dead ...the dog he was wen brought to the shelter is a far cry from the dog he is now. Altho i am not a vegetarian i do watch the animal programmes on tele and i am disgusted by the way most of the people on those shows treat there animals ...and for you to even consider comparing those people who genuinly go out of their way to harm their pets to your friends situation is both ignorant and disrespectful ..I wonder what he would do if he ever found out what you were saying Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....

Why do you own a pet ? Because you want to own a pet. Thats it, its the only reason. I's selfish and ignorant to think it should be fine to own a pet knowing the majority of them are mistreated. Thats whats ignorant.

Jen Pigs Fly

mattjack wrote: »

A 60kg bag ? I buy 15 kg bags and can just carry them.

No such thing as a 60kg bag, Royal Canin's limit it 15kgs in retails outlets.

mattjack

xxxJennyxxx wrote: »

No such thing as a 60kg bag, Royal Canin's limit it 15kgs in retails outlets.

I know, a 60kg bag is huge.15kg is the size of a large bag of potatoes..

Scioch

xxxJennyxxx wrote: »

The shop I work in has no animals. We do not sell them on principal.
I went through an intensive 40 hour training course just to work in a retail shop, and am going for my pet nutrition status soon enough. We never sell anything to someone who does not know how to use it/how it works/etc.

I do have the moral high ground

Apologies.

wonderfulname

Hmm... Agreeing with the concept of raising animals for food when meat is not necessary in the human diet and uses considerably more resources than the alternative yet disagreeing with keeping a domesticated, dependant animal as a companion, what shining logic.

I have no issues with either by the way, because the animals are happy as a Larry in a normal domesticated environment and whilst there's a global food shortage, there ain't an Irish one, and we won't see that particular inequality sorted any time soon.

Also; Mmm... Bacon...

Shenshen

xxxJennyxxx wrote: »

60Kg bags? Sure it's not 15kg? :P

Which ones are the really large ones they always keep on the bottom shelf?
Could be 40kg, I can't remember now (and can't be bothered to get down to the kitchen to check;)), usually it takes two of us to lift one.

Jen Pigs Fly

mattjack wrote: »

I know, a 60kg bag is huge.15kg is the size of a large bag of potatoes..

was shifting those around today, the 15kg royal canin and red mills bags ... I've the arms of a body builder

Jen Pigs Fly

Shenshen wrote: »

Which ones are the really large ones they always keep on the bottom shelf?
Could be 40kg, I can't remember now (and can't be bothered to get down to the kitchen to check;)), usually it takes two of us to lift one.

defo 15kg

Shenshen

xxxJennyxxx wrote: »

defo 15kg

Apologies for exaggerating, then. I honestly haven't checked in ages, we usually just dive for the huge bags on the bottom shelf.

GarIT

wonderfulname wrote: »

Hmm... Agreeing with the concept of raising animals for food when meat is not necessary in the human diet and uses considerably more resources than the alternative yet disagreeing with keeping a domesticated, dependant animal as a companion, what shining logic.

I doubt that we would have enough food in Ireland if we had no meat, no milk and nothing that is made from milk.

shopaholic01

Well looked after pets cannot be compered to slaves. A dog should not be left alone all day - they're social animals. A second dog would provide companionship for the dog in your example.

The main problem is people keeping big dogs when they only have a small garden, especially if they are not exercised a couple of times a day. Dogs need attention and stimulation - that cute puppy will quickly grow into a high maintenance adult dog.

The Celtic tiger has left us with a legacy of rare and expensive breeds being kept as pets. I know people who chose a breed because no one else had one.

Mongrels make better pets, and as they're not inbred they have fewer genetic defects and health problem. They are usually more intelligent too, so I can't understand someone who pays for a dog, when pounds are full of these adorable mutts.

Dogs and cats are carnivores so I can understand a vegetarian feeding his pet meat. I would have a bigger issue if he wore leather or ate food containing animal derived ingredients.

Most people do not understand how to care for pets properly and a lot of animals are mistreated due to ignorance as opposed to lack of love for the animal.

Pets are often better company than people, and enjoy human contact and affection.

Jen Pigs Fly

Shenshen wrote: »

Apologies for exaggerating, then. I honestly haven't checked in ages, we usually just dive for the huge bags on the bottom shelf.

Nah you're grand haha, they start to feel like 60kgs after a few days moving them from place to place - new offers coming in and the likes so a lot of moving, have to go in on my day off just to put out prices :rolleyes:

Shenshen

xxxJennyxxx wrote: »

Nah you're grand haha, they start to feel like 60kgs after a few days moving them from place to place - new offers coming in and the likes so a lot of moving, have to go in on my day off just to put out prices :rolleyes:

Any offers on cat food?

grey_so_what

xxxJennyxxx wrote: »

Nah you're grand haha, they start to feel like 60kgs after a few days moving them from place to place - new offers coming in and the likes so a lot of moving, have to go in on my day off just to put out prices :rolleyes:

Get a hugh amount of help and respect from the lovely people who work in pet shops, fair play to them....:)

El Guapo!

LordSmeg wrote: »

]

.....dogs have evolved to hunt and run not sit in back gardens.......

Dogs have not evolved to hunt. Quite the opposite.
If you look at the history of the domestic dog, about 80% of the breeds that are around today didn't exist 100 years ago. Dogs have been basically engineered by humans, for humans. Dogs are reliant on us and most wouldn't survive in the wild without us.
Just wanted to clear that up.

Shint0

When you look at those countries which have large populations of street dogs roaming free, those countries generally have poorer records of civil, social and political rights with some of the poorest of their population living in poverty and uninhabitable conditions.