Are there any plans to do anything about Drogheda's decline?

Pauvre Con

MugMugs wrote: »

OP - Dublin is wonderful? Are you for real? I spent my life trying to.get out and when I did I did it in style fifty miles away. Dublin is certainly not wonderful.

Agree. Dublin is a tatty, grimy kip. I don't dislike it but it's one of the more unwhelming European capitals I've visited.

Retro Police

Nothing like a controversial post to get people talking!

I kind of agree with the OP, but maybe the geographical spread of the 'decline' isn't as broad as is made out. Narrow west st is basically deserted and looks every bit like a dilapidated area. This rot has spread as far as the post office. But from there all the way down to scotch hall (the 'new main route')looks well and has plenty to offer. There are very few empty units (maybe just the old bank?). The stalls that are there during the week add to the atmosphere of the place. The town centre appears to have turned a corner recently with the addition of a few new stores and the footfall in the place seems to have increased dramatically which is great to see.

I think the council do have a role to play and don't play it very well. If you talk to most businesses in the town, I'd imagine that they will have very little praise for the council as it lacks the business acumen needed to work with the town's small retailers to improve the area and encourage the creation of new business. However, there is always hope for change in this regard!

CMpunked

Until theres another boom time, the town wont change.
Scotch Hall is owned by NAMA, so there's no chance in that closing any time soon. Even if all it becomes is an outer surround for Next and Dunnes, it will still be there.

Unless money is going to be heavily invested in the town in the way of a big MNC (like paypal in dundalk) then i dont think its going to change anytime soon.
For years the council, some local youths and also locals who are still youthful have been fighting for the money to build a skatepark in the town.
It costs nothing in reality but the amount of hoops that has to be jumped through for funding is unbelievable.
They finally got the go ahead in the last few weeks and even at that it's only going to be a little 20x20 slab, but the main thing is there will be somewhere.

Anyway, my point is that the town has no access to money for these kinds of luxuries such as fountains or tourist-like recreational activities such as kayaking on the boyne and until we do, its going to stay the same.

MugMugs

CMpunked wrote: »

Anyway, my point is that the town has no access to money for these kinds of luxuries such as fountains or tourist-like recreational activities such as kayaking on the boyne and until we do, its going to stay the same.

I believe that there is a local Kayaking Club based beside the Life Guard station off Mell.

And in relation to Kayaking that stretch of the Boyne through the town, I can tell you now that you don't want too.

It might look nice from the bank but it's a different ball game down there.

We paddled in training for the Descent last year from Navan to Drogheda (long old day)

Said we would finish in the town for the craic. Just before the Bridge of peace we got our first overwhelming smell of waste water which got gradually worse as we went through the town. It smelt a lot like Head and Shoulders at one stage but I still wouldn't risk putting my head into it. If I was to get into a boat again down there, I'd be heading straight back toward the M1.

We also had to avoid missles from little tow rags whilst paddling through.

Nesta99

furiousox wrote: »

Have I got the wrong end of the stick or are people really suggesting Drogheda (in 2012) is run down due to Oliver Cromwell?? :eek:

Fenian Army playing the broken record...opression, brutality, damn those English - after the first few words I yawned and stopped reading, not worth a retort.

Whoever suggested a University in Scotch Hall, even if it was possible whats the need when you are a 20min drive from DKIT/DCU (both if which will be that same thing very soon).

The simple remdial short term thing to do is to implement by-laws that obligates property owners to maintain their buildings. Fine them if they dont and take a compulsory purchase out on long term derelict buildings.

The return of volunteerism is fantastic to hear after the plastic self centred days of the last decade. A sense of ownership within a community brings with it pride and thus helps perpetuate efforts, and everyone will benefit. Recessionary periods are a bitch but the one positive is that it galvanises the people and good old community spirit returns in abundance.

SMASH THE UNIONS

Just to let everyone know, Fenian Army is a re-reg of banned poster Wolfe Tone. Still soapboxing about the partiton and Republican nonsense I see...yawn. Like Nesta99 said, it's not even worth a reply. It's sad to see young lads who weren't even born during the Troubles continuing on the campaign of hate when the majority of people North and South of the border have moved on. Stop using the British as the scapegoat for everything wrong in this country and accept your own failings.

MugMugs

SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »

Just to let everyone know, Fenian Army is a re-reg of banned poster Wolfe Tone. Still soapboxing about the partiton and Republican nonsense I see...yawn. Like Nesta99 said, it's not even worth a reply. It's sad to see young lads who weren't even born during the Troubles continuing on the campaign of hate when the majority of people North and South of the border have moved on. Stop using the British as the scapegoat for everything wrong in this country and accept your own failings.

I think you'd be best served reporting him to an Admin if that is true.

Wireless net

Wireless net wrote: »

what negative aspects do you refer to? ( suppose depends what part of Drogheda you are talking about)

I live in Rathmullen Park, near St. John's/Paul's schools. Recently, about two years ago, they revamped a large portion of road in the area. They'd already put speed bumps down before that. Then a few months ago, they went into one of the more cluttered cul de sacs, cleared it out and re-tarmacced it (if that's a word?) put down markings for parking spaces, cleaned up the paths and such and just generally made the whole area really pull together properly.

I know the corporation are seen as '5 fellas to dig a hole, 12 to change a bulb', etc. but they did an absolutely excellent job and the place looks infinitely better.


This demonstrates, to me, that there is an ability to produce good results in the local areas. This is hampered however, by;

A local heroes initiative that organises pub quizzes, Councillors that are more concerned about sleeping at toll bridges for inane reasons that they're not up for much else, a national judicial system that outright refuses to punish people (resulting in constant spray painting around the town and windows being broken on buildings, the fantastic looking Aura building being a prime target, as the kids doing it will never be caught), a series of retail parks that couldn't be any further from the centre of the town if they tried (and a series of shopping centres that couldn't be any further from the main street, if they tried), a complete resistance to produce or install new ideas in the town, and when something is thought up, it gets dragged out for months (how long have they been discussing closing the road under Laurence's Gate!?), a lack of willingness to give reduced retail rates/rents to start up businesses (surely it's better to have your retail space generating a minimal profit per week, than nothing?!), lots of random festivals throughout the year that don't really do a whole lot (as opposed to one big one, for example).


And so on and so forth.

(All in my own uneducated opinion of course).


There are a lot of good people in the town. Most of the people I've come across have been down to earth, easy to talk to, and generally inviting and willing to make small talk and be nice. The council/s just give a real feel of apathy. I don't know if perhaps their hands are tied and there's not a lot they can do, but they seem overly bothered about the towns constant demise.

Scotch Hall and other shopping centres work heavily by giving a massive chain store a free retail unit (well, rent free) for X amount of time (these are called Anchor tenants, I believe, and Dunnes in Scoth Hall is an example). The idea here is that a large store will generate footfall, thus making other stores (and customers) want to share that area.

Why can't the Town Centre give away a free space to Burger King (seen as they're being discussed the whole time) to get people in the door.

And I'm sick to the teeth of suggesting waterproof, colour changing LEDs be put along the sides of the Boyne to make it colourful (from both the average pedestrian standpoint and from ariel views (Millmount, etc.). Ask the Boyne Fishermen to take care of installing and repairing them (I'm sure they'd be happy to, so long as repairs, etc. weren't out of their own pocket) and there you go. You've completely revamped an entire river. A couple of hundred/thousand waterproof LEDs can't be that feckin' expensive in comparison to the other nonsense I see the council spending money on.

CMpunked

Great post Shane. Have you ever considered running in a council election?

Deleted User wrote: »

Why can't the Town Centre give away a free space to Burger King (seen as they're being discussed the whole time) to get people in the door.

I think that because Burger kings are franchises and anyone can buy the license and buy signage/ingredients/seats/tables/cookers etc from BK, they have to rent the space that BK allow them to and wont pay anything to the rent. Meaning it cant be free and have the manager set up shop for a year or two then close it down and pocket the cash.

CMpunked

CMpunked wrote: »

Great post Shane. Have you ever considered running in a council election?

I can barely walk to the front door, I don't think I'll be running in anything anytime soon!


I'd love to be on the council in this town and actually have a proper input. I don't think I'd know where to start, or if I'd be taken seriously though.

I think that because Burger kings are franchises and anyone can buy the license and buy signage/ingredients/seats/tables/cookers etc from BK, they have to rent the space that BK allow them to and wont pay anything to the rent. Meaning it cant be free and have the manager set up shop for a year or two then close it down and pocket the cash.

I'm aware of Burger King as a franchise, but surely if someone thinks they can 'pocket the cash' after two years (a time frame during which I'd imagine most fast food franchises struggle to turn an overall profit), then surely they'd still have a belief and commitment in the restaurant, and would either carry on with it, or sell it to someone else to manage (if there's any cash to pocket then it must be somewhat successful).

Burger King would do serious business in this town, at least for the first six months, when it's new and exciting and different and everyone wants to be cool and trendy by going there instead of the other places (KFC went through a similar phase I believe, and Subway, too, except, due to location, Subway remains relatively busy, I believe?).

CMpunked

Deleted User wrote: »

Subway remains relatively busy, I believe?).

I never go in it anymore, its always overrun with kids and is filthy because of such.

Anyway, I think the town could be a really great place if a few young passionate about change are elected to the council, such as yourself.

Too many of the old heads have been knocking about in the council for too long IMO.

Nesta99

KKV before ye ever consider standing for local elections you must meet the prerequisite of aligning yerself with some GAA club:o

10green bottles

Nesta99 wrote: »

KKV before ye ever consider standing for local elections you must meet the prerequisite of aligning yerself with some GAA club:o

The lad(KKV) will be going for President of the Nation Nesta99 so he will be allinging himself with LOI footie

Nesta99

Shoe in then so as a gauranteed 1000's from the best followed league in Ireland (Sticks on a Septic...i mean Celtic shirt)...

Lord TSC

Deleted User wrote: »

Post on state of Drogheda

blingrhino

[QUOTE=CMpunked

Anyway, my point is that the town has no access to money for these kinds of luxuries such as fountains or tourist-like recreational activities such as kayaking on the boyne and until we do, its going to stay the same.[/QUOTE]



So what do businesses pay rates for

Wireless net

CMpunked wrote: »

Anyway, my point is that the town has no access to money for these kinds of luxuries such as fountains or tourist-like recreational activities such as kayaking on the boyne and until we do, its going to stay the same.

have you canoed / kayaked on the Boyne? the river is smelly with lots of pollution, regularly i see pollution floating on the surface its manky really around the town area, i canoed down from Slane castle in an open canoe to Drogheda , and came accross a dead cow all bloated up on the way down, if some work was done to tidy it up, market it, and make more facilities available it would be much better, the water quality is very poor though.

last year i had my yacht in Drogheda port, and slept aboard a couple of nights, was awoken at 4.30 am with beer bottles being thrown out at my boat.. :mad:

Drogheda is a working port, and so not that geared up to support pleasure craft, however a little marina would be nice, further down stream, one can only wish!

as river is tidal, sometimes there can be a good current running, and also parts of river up near the town, are only 1.3M deep at LW, can make it unsuitable for some watersports.

however down at bank town / bishops / queensborough / hole / its much nicer, and often see dinghy sailing going on there in summer, also you will also see the odd foreign yacht, anchored down at the hole during the summer months.

If you wanna see KKV whippin' ass in Drogheda Borough Council, Gimme a HELL YEAH!!!


















































Oh.. okay then. I was probably being too optimistic, anyway. Should've lied about creating jobs and 'going forward'. Lesson learned.


Clogherhead surely would be more suited to watersports and such, no? Why bother trying to compete with something when there's a location a hundred times better twenty minutes out the road. I do think we should build something on the water though. Like Bru overhangs the river (and seemed to be fairly popular in the good weather with people sitting outside overlooking the river).

I did see a speedboat of sorts whizzing up and down the river a in the good weather (and a jet ski at another time, too). So there obviously are people out there willing to do it, but while I do think we should push for promoting the river, I don't think most standard river-based activities are suited to it. It's filthy.

That said, in London and the likes, do they not have little barge-type things that do tours on the river? Clearly this would be too touristy to be a constant thing, but a little cafe-on-a-barge-on-the-river would surely be a decent idea? I realise that's more of an entrepreneurial thing than a council issue, but perhaps if the council put a small bit of money aside, they could set up a scheme/initiative of some sort, where people can apply for funding from them if they have a business idea that will benefit Drogheda (and the surrounding areas) or that makes use of the Boyne/potential tourist trade?

Now, by no means am I trying to compare Drogheda to established, actual cities, like New York or London, but don't (both) those places have a fancy, upmarket restaurant-on-a-boat type thing? It docks at a certain time in the evenings, and you enjoy yourself on the water before coming back in at a set time? You book your meal/times in one go and away you go to enjoy your night away from the town, floating around?

It could collect at Scotch Hall/De Lacy bridge and head towards Mornington (so it doesn't have to come under the other bridges of the town, where the enthusiastic scumbags will no doubt throw stones at it)?



Or am I in some kind of fantasy land to even consider such an idea?


Again though, not a council issue, I'm aware. I did see in today's paper that they (not sure who 'they' are, as I didn't actually see the Leader myself, but was told about it) are offering reduced rates for 'pop up' shops/short term leases in the empty stores. That's a good idea. That Lir shop seemed to be a bit of a success in the town (it appeared in two retail units, at Christmas and Easter).

Wireless net

Deleted User wrote: »

If you wanna see KKV whippin' ass in Drogheda Borough Council, Gimme a HELL YEAH!!!






















































Oh.. okay then. I was probably being too optimistic, anyway. Should've lied about creating jobs and 'going forward'. Lesson learned.


Clogherhead surely would be more suited to watersports and such, no? Why bother trying to compete with something when there's a location a hundred times better twenty minutes out the road. I do think we should build something on the water though. Like Bru overhangs the river (and seemed to be fairly popular in the good weather with people sitting outside overlooking the river).

I did see a speedboat of sorts whizzing up and down the river a in the good weather (and a jet ski at another time, too). So there obviously are people out there willing to do it, but while I do think we should push for promoting the river, I don't think most standard river-based activities are suited to it. It's filthy.

That said, in London and the likes, do they not have little barge-type things that do tours on the river? Clearly this would be too touristy to be a constant thing, but a little cafe-on-a-barge-on-the-river would surely be a decent idea? I realise that's more of an entrepreneurial thing than a council issue, but perhaps if the council put a small bit of money aside, they could set up a scheme/initiative of some sort, where people can apply for funding from them if they have a business idea that will benefit Drogheda (and the surrounding areas) or that makes use of the Boyne/potential tourist trade?

Now, by no means am I trying to compare Drogheda to established, actual cities, like New York or London, but don't (both) those places have a fancy, upmarket restaurant-on-a-boat type thing? It docks at a certain time in the evenings, and you enjoy yourself on the water before coming back in at a set time? You book your meal/times in one go and away you go to enjoy your night away from the town, floating around?

It could collect at Scotch Hall/De Lacy bridge and head towards Mornington (so it doesn't have to come under the other bridges of the town, where the enthusiastic scumbags will no doubt throw stones at it)?



Or am I in some kind of fantasy land to even consider such an idea?


Again though, not a council issue, I'm aware. I did see in today's paper that they (not sure who 'they' are, as I didn't actually see the Leader myself, but was told about it) are offering reduced rates for 'pop up' shops/short term leases in the empty stores. That's a good idea. That Lir shop seemed to be a bit of a success in the town (it appeared in two retail units, at Christmas and Easter).

Clogher Head attracts a constant stream of people out there! I sometimes sail up to get a nice cup of seafood chowder, with nice big chunks of fish in it, and some brown bread, and also a few packets of those crab claws!
yes they sell hot seafood chowder in the fish shop at the pier in clogherhead! fantastic stuff and its served piping hot!

Nesta99

Deleted User wrote: »

it doesn't have to come under the other bridges of the town, where the enthusiastic scumbags will no doubt throw stones at it.

Maybe the first consideration should be to sort out such anti-social stuff....hope you wouldnt be the type of politicain who does the 'if ye cant see it, it doesnt exist thing:P

CMpunked

Nesta99 wrote: »

Maybe the first consideration should be to sort out such anti-social stuff

That would have to be dealt with on a national level and not regional. The judicial system in this country is a joke but that should probably be left for another thread.

Lord TSC

I'd agree the anti-social thing isn't something easily sorted out; that problem has existed for decades, in good times and bad, and truthfully, trying to deal with the core causes of it (unemployment, teenage drinking, etc) would be tough enough to tackle in the good times, let alone the bad....

Wireless net

Wireless net wrote: »

Clogher Head attracts a constant stream of people out there! I sometimes sail up to get a nice cup of seafood chowder, with nice big chunks of fish in it, and some brown bread, and also a few packets of those crab claws!
yes they sell hot seafood chowder in the fish shop at the pier in clogherhead! fantastic stuff and its served piping hot!

Exactly. So what's the point in trying to compete. Even if the boyne was suitable for water based activities, Clogherhead is only a short distance away (one could argue it's poorly served by public transport, but that's another argument altogether).

Nesta99 wrote: »

Maybe the first consideration should be to sort out such anti-social stuff....hope you wouldnt be the type of politicain who does the 'if ye cant see it, it doesnt exist thing

Anti-Social behaviour will always exist in Ireland. The courts are far too lenient and the Gardaí don't want to deal with it (which is understandable, why fight, claw and scratch to get a couple of thugs into the back of your patrol car, when you know that they're getting less than a slap on the wrist if they ever go before a judge).


Spike Island should be re-opened and should specialise in making an example of people. I think that mandatory minimum sentencing should be part of the judicial system (to make up for the abundance of lenient and incompetent judges in the state, currently).


None of these are local issues though (though they would benefit Drogheda and other small towns, of course).

Fenian Army

MugMugs wrote: »

I think you'd be best served reporting him to an Admin if that is true.

It's nonsense.

Fenian Army

Nesta99 wrote: »

Fenian Army playing the broken record...opression, brutality, damn those English - after the first few words I yawned and stopped reading, not worth a retort.

Whoever suggested a University in Scotch Hall, even if it was possible whats the need when you are a 20min drive from DKIT/DCU (both if which will be that same thing very soon).

The simple remdial short term thing to do is to implement by-laws that obligates property owners to maintain their buildings. Fine them if they dont and take a compulsory purchase out on long term derelict buildings.

The return of volunteerism is fantastic to hear after the plastic self centred days of the last decade. A sense of ownership within a community brings with it pride and thus helps perpetuate efforts, and everyone will benefit. Recessionary periods are a bitch but the one positive is that it galvanises the people and good old community spirit returns in abundance.

How about you address what I said - where was I wrong?

Drogheda has suffered because of partition - like the other border counties. My point about the town relying on outsiders - the elites of 19th century industry or todays foreign "heroes" like Coca Cola for employment is valid. Drogheda has no (or next to none) native industry and these days is a commuter town of electric gated semi ds. Thankfully there are signs that community is returning, there have been some fantastic community efforts recently, as others have alluded to.

You make my point for me - ownership - something which has been lacking, I outlined the reasons why. You can bury your head in the sand all you want - you mightn't like what I say but it has validity.

I wasnt blaming Cromwell, but the reliance on industry with little or no ties to the community (the penal laws helped this)and having nothing to fall back on when they inevitable up and leave or fold as the long running problem the town has had, repeated today with coke.

Fenian Army

I was always led to believe that the Boyne is very dangerous, and one should never swim etc in it? Or is that just at places like the curly hole?

MugMugs

Fenian Army wrote: »

I was always led to believe that the Boyne is very dangerous, and one should never swim etc in it? Or is that just at places like the curly hole?

It's fine if you know what you're doing like any river.

The hole is a swell of turning water and is dangerous. I'd only recommend kayaking any part of The Boyne with a buoyancy aid, helmet and the competence needed to do so. I wouldn't suggest anybody who is not experienced head out for the "craic"

Kaylee

I'm just back from 10 days in West Cork and I wish we had just a bit of whatever attitude their Councils have down there (not trying to compere chalk with cheese - I know Drogheda is not Skibbereen). But just a bit more care and respect and imagination...

Agree with OP on most of his viewpoints - he's right the North Strand always gets me too... a complete kip - those concrete warehouses belonging to the Port are UGLY. What is the story with Doners Green - who is responsible for the state it's in?

@CMPunked - It's great that the Skate Park has been given the go ahead - but did it have to be on one of the few green areas in the town beside the river? Especially with all the other areas in the town that could have been upgraded to suit the needs of skaters.

KKV has great ideas - I'm up for a bit of Guerilla Gardening if anyone is interested! There are lots of areas around the town that could be planted.

The people of Drogheda are great - friendly and helpful - but I think that they have come to expect little and that is what they are getting.

fergal.b

Wireless net wrote: »

have you canoed / kayaked on the Boyne? the river is smelly with lots of pollution, regularly i see pollution floating on the surface its manky really around the town area, i canoed down from Slane castle in an open canoe to Drogheda , and came accross a dead cow all bloated up on the way down, if some work was done to tidy it up, market it, and make more facilities available it would be much better, the water quality is very poor though.

last year i had my yacht in Drogheda port, and slept aboard a couple of nights, was awoken at 4.30 am with beer bottles being thrown out at my boat.. :mad:

Drogheda is a working port, and so not that geared up to support pleasure craft, however a little marina would be nice, further down stream, one can only wish!

as river is tidal, sometimes there can be a good current running, and also parts of river up near the town, are only 1.3M deep at LW, can make it unsuitable for some watersports.

however down at bank town / bishops / queensborough / hole / its much nicer, and often see dinghy sailing going on there in summer, also you will also see the odd foreign yacht, anchored down at the hole during the summer months.

I know this an old post but just wanted to say that that a group of us from http://powerboat.iwai.ie/ will be doing a run up the Boyne this weekend http://afloat.ie/inland/inland-waterways/item/20989-powerboat-flotilla-to-visit-drogheda-river-boyne in the hope to show that the Boyne is a place worth a visit by pleasure boats, we will also be heading up the canal where the Boyne Navigation Branch have been doing fantastic work over the years to clean it up and get it back to working order. These guy's/girls have work parties most weekends and are always looking for volunteers to help out,so if anyone has a bit of free time and would like to see the waterway been brought back to life give them a shout Here is some of the work they have done so far. http://boyne.iwai.ie/plogger/ and if you want see the Boyne full of boats including the Clogherhead lifeboat we should be at De Lacey bridge by about 12.45.

OP Ask not what your town can do for you but what can you do for your town :D




.

CRM Ireland

fergal.b wrote: »

I know this an old post but just wanted to say that that a group of us from http://powerboat.iwai.ie/ will be doing a run up the Boyne this weekend http://afloat.ie/inland/inland-waterways/item/20989-powerboat-flotilla-to-visit-drogheda-river-boyne in the hope to show that the Boyne is a place worth a visit by pleasure boats, we will also be heading up the canal where the Boyne Navigation Branch have been doing fantastic work over the years to clean it up and get it back to working order. These guy's/girls have work parties most weekends and are always looking for volunteers to help out,so if anyone has a bit of free time and would like to see the waterway been brought back to life give them a shout Here is some of the work they have done so far. http://boyne.iwai.ie/plogger/ and if you want see the Boyne full of boats including the Clogherhead lifeboat we should be at De Lacey bridge by about 12.45.

OP Ask not what your town can do for you but what can you do for your town :D




.

At the pier this weekend? 13th April? If so, I will be there!