Wood Gasification boiler

tap28

Hi,

I am thinking installing a wood gasification boiler in my house.

My house is a very well insulated 2400sq foot dormer and I have a large shed 15m from the house.

2 years ago I planted 500 alder 1m tall. Will 500 alder produce enough timber for my house?

I don't have room to install both the boiler and buffer tank in the house. I am thinking of putting the buffer tank in the house and either getting an external boiler (if possible?) or putting the boiler in the shed.

Has anyone seen an external boiler like this? http://www.agreeneralternative.co.uk...oilercasestudy

Thanks

Tap

blue5000

You could put both the boiler and the buffer tank in the shed. You'll need v. well insulated pipe down about 1m deep from the house to the shed.

locky76

I'm doing something similar at present, put the buffer tank and boiler in the shed, the residual heat off this will help dry your timber as well.
Pipe across to your house with a low loss 6'' pipe with 2x1'' inside, they have minimal heat loss (€38/metre- ouch).
This outfit in Mountrath, Co.Laois fired up a boiler for me very impressive to see it in the flesh:
http://www.shs-renewables.ie/wood_gasification_boilers_maga.html
€5,800 for the boiler, buffer tanks (2x1000 litres) and all the ancillary stuff (laddomat, thermostat, guages etc.)

Outkast_IRE

I have done this on a few jobs and having it in the shed is the only way to go, as pointed out it makes it easy to store the timber next to it then etc.

No matter what do not skimp on the pipe insulation from the shed to the house, its essential you get the best preinsulated pipe possible for this its expensive but it will cost your more in the long run not to do it.

reilig

I have an atmos 25kw gasifying boiler in my house for over 4 years now. I detailed the installation in a thread in the construction section of this forum. I have it installed in my garage which is about 15 meters from my house. Its linked with insulated pipe.

I burn approximately 15 - 20 m3 of wood every year (Which is approximately half a lorry load of thinnings). I have a 1500l buffer tank which feeds the house and is controlled by the stats. Very happy with it at present. It keeps the house warm, heats the water, is environmentally friendly, and very cheap to run. This is teh first year that I bought wood for it as i have a lot of wood on the farm. I estimate approximately €300 per year as a wood fuel bill.

However, gasifying boilers aren't for everyone. You have to be prepared for it. It has to be lit and filled every day - if you miss a day, there is a danger that your house will get cold. You have to be prepared to cut timber, stack it, and dry it. Its a lifestyle, and if you're not prepared to do it, you'll regret buying a wood boiler.

I would not recommend an outside boiler. Put it somewhere where you will be dry when lighting it, where you will be able to store your wood in a dry place and where the rain won't beat at it.

The buffer tank needs a lot of space - far more than you can imagine. With the insulation, mine is over 9ft tall and at least 4 ft in diameter. You have to be careful with ceiling heights and door widths.

Finally, choose your installer carefuly. There are a lot of horror stories of installers who, although certified to install gasifyer boilers, have no clue how to do it properly. Manufacturer guidelines have to be followed to a T for installation. Some installers will try to cut corners and you'll just end up with a €5000 kettle which will heat itself to boiling point, but will heat nothing else.

tap28

Thanks for getting back to me.

http://www.shs-renewables.ie/wood_gasification_boilers_maga.html

According to that website "fuel is only necessary to be fed 2 or 3 times in 24 hours" I thought you would only need to be filled 2 or 3 times per week.

Reilig, how many trees would you need for 20m3?

My big question is, will I have enough trees?

Thanks,

Tap

reilig

tap28 wrote: »

Thanks for getting back to me.

http://www.shs-renewables.ie/wood_gasification_boilers_maga.html

According to that website "fuel is only necessary to be fed 2 or 3 times in 24 hours" I thought you would only need to be filled 2 or 3 times per week.

Reilig, how many trees would you need for 20m3?

My big question is, will I have enough trees?

Thanks,

Tap

You would need a lot of very small trees or a few very big trees to be honest!! Its impossible to answer your question when I don't know what size your trees are.

Think of an articulated lorry trailer carrying forestry logs that you can see on the road in most parts of the country. One of these should do my boiler for 2 years. I'd estimate that there's approximately 40m3 per load.

As for lighting the boiler, you will need to be lighting it every day in winter. 2 or 3 times a week in spring and autumn and once a week (for hot water) in summer.

I'd normally light the boiler, fill it up once, let it burn to almost empty, and fill it again. This will heat the 1500l buffer tank from 20 degrees to above 80 degrees from top to bottom.

The insulation level of your house will determine how often you have to light the boiler. The better the insulation, the less heat you will lose from the house and the less wood you will burn. I have a relatively new house with a good spec on the insulation. Its 2000 sq ft.

Silvics

tap28 wrote: »

Hi,

I am thinking installing a wood gasification boiler in my house.

My house is a very well insulated 2400sq foot dormer and I have a large shed 15m from the house.

2 years ago I planted 500 alder 1m tall. Will 500 alder produce enough timber for my house?

I don't have room to install both the boiler and buffer tank in the house. I am thinking of putting the buffer tank in the house and either getting an external boiler (if possible?) or putting the boiler in the shed.

Has anyone seen an external boiler like this? http://www.agreeneralternative.co.uk...oilercasestudy

Thanks

Tap

Alder when dry burns fast. Experience and my gut tell me you might be better off with a some dry spruce or pine, ash or a mix.
From my own plantations I burn up to 10 different types of wood, in woodburning stoves, and alder really does not last.

btb

reilig wrote: »

You would need a lot of very small trees or a few very big trees to be honest!! Its impossible to answer your question when I don't know what size your trees are.

Think of an articulated lorry trailer carrying forestry logs that you can see on the road in most parts of the country. One of these should do my boiler for 2 years. I'd estimate that there's approximately 40m3 per load.

to keep to the 42T or 44T weight limit (5 or 6 axles), a legal load on an artic or drawbar outfit is 30m3, and hauliers are only paid for legal loads.

reilig

btb wrote: »

to keep to the 42T or 44T weight limit (5 or 6 axles), a legal load on an artic or drawbar outfit is 30m3, and hauliers are only paid for legal loads.

But surely it depends on what type of timber you have??? And it also depends on if the timber has been seasoned or not? Some soft woods weigh a lot lighter than others. Hardwood definitely weighs a lot heavier than softwood. I have asked a lot of times, but nobody has been able to give me a definitive answer as to the weight of a m3. The softwood that I bought last December is definitely half the weight now than it was when I bought it.

http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/forestry-woodland-management/13148-timber-weight-m3.html

btb

Most softwood when cut contains approx 50% water, and as its not left lying around in a forest anymore (harvested and extracted to mill/ processing plant in a short timeframe) you would be buying a lot of water. When it dries out it would weigh a lot less. Hardwood on the otherhand contains less water but the wood is denser so will weigh more even when seasoned.

Wood is bought and sold by volume but the haulier is paid on weight.

Most trucks when hauling pulp would only be loaded approx 2/3 way up the bars and weigh approx 44T over 4 bays, but if the pulp was dry, could be up to the top of the bars and would only weigh 35-36T.

Also to clarify, volume is loose stacked, solid volume would be less (there is a formulea but cant remember it at the min)

tap28

reilig wrote: »

You would need a lot of very small trees or a few very big trees to be honest!! Its impossible to answer your question when I don't know what size your trees are.

Think of an articulated lorry trailer carrying forestry logs that you can see on the road in most parts of the country. One of these should do my boiler for 2 years. I'd estimate that there's approximately 40m3 per load.

As for lighting the boiler, you will need to be lighting it every day in winter. 2 or 3 times a week in spring and autumn and once a week (for hot water) in summer.

I'd normally light the boiler, fill it up once, let it burn to almost empty, and fill it again. This will heat the 1500l buffer tank from 20 degrees to above 80 degrees from top to bottom.

The insulation level of your house will determine how often you have to light the boiler. The better the insulation, the less heat you will lose from the house and the less wood you will burn. I have a relatively new house with a good spec on the insulation. Its 2000 sq ft.

Thanks for getting back to me.

On the boiler:
What boiler did you buy?
Can it be bought in Ireland?
How much?
Are you happy with it?
Are there better ones out there now?

On a side note, I have about another 60 birch (paper and himalayan) not part of the coppice and I think I have room for about 60/70 trees down the back of the site. I might plant some beach or ash, any recommendations?

Tap

greenfingers89

tap28 wrote: »

I think I have room for about 60/70 trees down the back of the site. I might plant some beach or ash, any recommendations?

plant what will grow, not what you want to grow. if its not suitable for beech or ash then forget about them. if it is, id still be wary of beech for production purposes

tap28

greenfingers89 wrote: »

plant what will grow, not what you want to grow. if its not suitable for beech or ash then forget about them. if it is, id still be wary of beech for production purposes

I live in the midlands, near a bog but my house is on what was once a the shore of a lake. Good soil with really good drainage, once I leave it alone:rolleyes: everything seems to trive.

On my 2 1/2 acres there are already mature beach, mountain ash, birch, crab apple, whitethorn and a couple oak.

What would complement the coppice?

Thanks
Tap

padraiggriffin

tap28 wrote: »

I live in the midlands, near a bog but my house is on what was once a the shore of a lake. Good soil with really good drainage, once I leave it alone:rolleyes: everything seems to trive.

On my 2 1/2 acres there are already mature beach, mountain ash, birch, crab apple, whitethorn and a couple oak.

What would complement the coppice?

Thanks
Tap

ash is the best option if you have the good ground and depth for it, best fuel also, takes longer to grow though,

alders do burn very fast and dont give out too much heat, birch are good for heat but burn fast,
i have been thinking of planting both of them since they would be suited to my soil conditions, i would be interested to hear how they compare for fuel - which do you get more out of ??

they both grow quick but maybe the alder grows faster and give more wood, maybe that is something to consider even if its fuel is not as good as birch ??
might plant some willow also, what is the better fuel between it and alder ?

any advice ??, soil conditions are average (sandstone land), drainage isnt great and the soil isnt deep (located on below a mountain).

blue5000

padraiggriffin wrote: »

ash is the best option if you have the good ground and depth for it, best fuel also, takes longer to grow though,

alders do burn very fast and dont give out too much heat, birch are good for heat but burn fast,
i have been thinking of planting both of them since they would be suited to my soil conditions, i would be interested to hear how they compare for fuel - which do you get more out of ??

they both grow quick but maybe the alder grows faster and give more wood, maybe that is something to consider even if its fuel is not as good as birch ??
might plant some willow also, what is the better fuel between it and alder ?

any advice ??, soil conditions are average (sandstone land), drainage isnt great and the soil isnt deep (located on below a mountain).

If it's wet go for alder, but mix it with something else, maybe ash on the drier parts.

reilig

Lads,

For a boiler which controls the burn to maintain an even and constant temperature - such as a gasifying boiler, the type of wood is less important. For the past 3 years, i have been burning mostly willow in my boiler. It is faster growing than most evergreen wood and it burns for longer. It loves wetter soil types and is cheap and easy to establish in almost any type of soil, it is easy to handle, process and dry.

If I was advising someone on the type of wood to grow on a small plot of land for specifically fueling a gasifying boiler, I would definitely recommend willow above anything else.

In a non controlled burn boiler such as a stove or a range, willow will burn out very hot, but very fast. However, the gasifying boiler won't allow it to do this and burn time is increased.

Just my 2 cents of experience from the 3 years that I have the boiler.

Buoyboy

reilig wrote: »

Lads,

For a boiler which controls the burn to maintain an even and constant temperature - such as a gasifying boiler, the type of wood is less important. For the past 3 years, i have been burning mostly willow in my boiler. It is faster growing than most evergreen wood and it burns for longer. It loves wetter soil types and is cheap and easy to establish in almost any type of soil, it is easy to handle, process and dry.

If I was advising someone on the type of wood to grow on a small plot of land for specifically fueling a gasifying boiler, I would definitely recommend willow above anything else.

In a non controlled burn boiler such as a stove or a range, willow will burn out very hot, but very fast. However, the gasifying boiler won't allow it to do this and burn time is increased

Just my 2 cents of experience from the 3 years that I have the boiler.

Hi Reilig I am intending to install a similar set up Atmos 32KW and Akvatherm 2000l -are you still happy with your system ?Anything you would do differently if you were starting again-sizing brands plumbing? How easy is the boiler to keep clean? Thanks for your input on Boards on the topic over the years.

TomOnBoard

Buoyboy wrote: »

Hi Reilig I am intending to install a similar set up Atmos 32KW and Akvatherm 2000l -are you still happy with your system ?Anything you would do differently if you were starting again-sizing brands plumbing? How easy is the boiler to keep clean? Thanks for your input on Boards on the topic over the years.

+1

Mikeindonegal

Hi

I am planning to install a gasifer boiler in Donegal and I am wondering if anyone could recommend a plumber / contracter who has already completed a good installation.