Tips on transplanting a large Camellia

Monsclara

Hi.
I have a large Camellia, about 8 years old in a pot. The pot dimensions are 50cms diameter x 50cms high. The height of the camellia is about 140cms from the top of the pot. This year is the first time there were no buds - normally it's a mass of red flowers in Spring time. I'm wondering if it is pot bound? I was thinking of transplanting it into the ground, but I think it will be very difficult to get out of the pot. Has anyone any suggestions about how I could get it out without damaging it?

Thanks in advance.

paddy147

Monsclara wrote: »

Hi.
I have a large Camellia, about 8 years old in a pot. The pot dimensions are 50cms diameter x 50cms high. The height of the camellia is about 140cms from the top of the pot. This year is the first time there were no buds - normally it's a mass of red flowers in Spring time. I'm wondering if it is pot bound? I was thinking of transplanting it into the ground, but I think it will be very difficult to get out of the pot. Has anyone any suggestions about how I could get it out without damaging it?

Thanks in advance.

If its a large plastic pot,then just cut/scour it down the sides in 4 places with a sharp stanley blade,and peel the pot away and down the plant.Then you have the plant and its base exposed to transplant.

Thats what we did with some large baux balls.:)

Make sure to have a 2nd person there with you,as large plants with their soil base can weigh alot when trying to lift them clean from the pots.You dont want/need a back injury.:(;)

If its pot bound,then gently pull out some of the roots so that they will find the new soil and spread out.:)

Also add in some new compost and also plant food too.

Oldtree

Make sure that the rootball is thoroughly saturated with water before replanting. Put tray under pot and keep filling tray until pot absorbs no more water.

My camelia 'apollo' seems to like an organic liquid feed mixed with a bit of liquid seaweed, got a great flowering this year. It is in a damp spot and took a few years to get going.

As paddy147 says, dont be afraid to break up a bit of the pots compost to get the roots to spread out a bit if rootbound.

Monsclara

Paddy147, Oldtree - thanks for getting back to me. One of my (several!) problems is the camellia is in one of those bronze type pots - not sure of the material but have attached pic. So I'm reluctant to take it apart. My plan was to try and get it out of the pot and put it in the ground where the cobblelock is. But I'm now wondering about the practicalities of that idea. Because of its size, it blocks everything behind it, hence the idea of planting it in the ground in the corner (where there is hardly any sun). But reading your suggestions I'm not sure this is a wise way to tackle it. I think because of its size, it would need a massive hole in the ground and it would be difficult to retain the pot. So the alternative is to just push it into the corner, in the pot and keep it as year round foliage. Would this make any sense? It is a shame as it was an amazing show in the springtime - couple of pics attached when it was younger. Not sure what to do.

Oldtree

Ok bit clearer now. getting bit big for that pot so probably best to move now, its not going to get any easier. You are going to have to dig it out. By the shape of the pot you would have to stick a fairly sharp concrete trowel or somesuch (I have one and its fab for planting small stuff) straight down by the edges to meet where the pot curves in, all around the edge, then hold the plant up and see if you can tap the pot off. You may damage some roots, but could then do a little bit of pruning at the same time to balance that out.



the planting hole would not need to be much bigger but break up the bottom of the hole to allow the roots to get an easy start. Pelleted chicken manure at bottom of hole, yum yum. Liquid seaweed to enhance micro nutirents to help recover from shock and a cup of tea for you too.

lovely healthy looking plant.

paddy147

Its a "dig it out" job unfortunately.

A long faced spade or a plasterers/blocklayers trowel and make the cuts/ slices into the pot around the edges.

Then lever it/tease it out gently by the base of the plant and take your time doing it too.

Oldtree

if there is a hole in the bottom of the pot it would help to prod the rootball up with somthing!

paddy147

Or a lump hammer???;):D

Only kidding.:)

cozzie55

IF you don't have a shovel handy then use a long kitchen/bread knife. Your guaranteed to destroy the roots but once you water etc etc as mentioned above it should recover from the shock.
I would say don't do the job while its overly warm and dry as the plant will dry out too quickly. This weather is good for it but you may be better off leaving it till september/october. I would be doubtful of getting many buds on the plant next year if you want though.
I'd say your best bet is to wait and transplant later in the year but in the mean time feed the plant as much as possible with good fertiliser.

Sonnenblumen

Monsclara wrote: »

Hi.
I have a large Camellia, about 8 years old in a pot. The pot dimensions are 50cms diameter x 50cms high. The height of the camellia is about 140cms from the top of the pot. This year is the first time there were no buds - normally it's a mass of red flowers in Spring time. I'm wondering if it is pot bound? I was thinking of transplanting it into the ground, but I think it will be very difficult to get out of the pot. Has anyone any suggestions about how I could get it out without damaging it?

Thanks in advance.

I doubt the problems affecting your Camellia have anything to do with 'pot-bound' and transplanting now would exacerbate the current problem. Drought (during previous summer) is more likely to be the cause for lack of buds this year.

Camellias are very vulnerable to drought and transplanting during the summer period into ground/pot would not be advisable.

Oldtree

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

I doubt the problems affecting your Camellia have anything to do with 'pot-bound' and transplanting now would exacerbate the current problem. Drought (during previous summer) is more likely to be the cause for lack of buds this year.

Camellias are very vulnerable to drought and transplanting during the summer period into ground/pot would not be advisable.

I dont think it could be said that we have a drought here at the moment, nor is one likely to arrive any time soon. As long as the same watering regimen is maintained for this summer, and perhaps for next spring if dry, it matters not whether the plant is in a pot or transplanted. In fact it could benefit the plant to allow it to set new roots before the winter. This is not really transplanting, as such, more a potting up issue.

Monsclara

Oldtree wrote: »

Ok bit clearer now. getting bit big for that pot so probably best to move now, its not going to get any easier. You are going to have to dig it out. By the shape of the pot you would have to stick a fairly sharp concrete trowel or somesuch (I have one and its fab for planting small stuff) straight down by the edges to meet where the pot curves in, all around the edge, then hold the plant up and see if you can tap the pot off. You may damage some roots, but could then do a little bit of pruning at the same time to balance that out.



the planting hole would not need to be much bigger but break up the bottom of the hole to allow the roots to get an easy start. Pelleted chicken manure at bottom of hole, yum yum. Liquid seaweed to enhance micro nutirents to help recover from shock and a cup of tea for you too.

lovely healthy looking plant.

Oldtree: you're a whiz on the Photoshop - thank you. This looks like it's going to be a long project and several cups of tea and many posts :rolleyes:. Your last ingredients look like something you would read in one of these noveau chef/recipe books - for plants of course. I'll give it a go and keep you posted.

Monsclara

paddy147 wrote: »

Its a "dig it out" job unfortunately.

A long faced spade or a plasterers/blocklayers trowel and make the cuts/ slices into the pot around the edges.

Then lever it/tease it out gently by the base of the plant and take your time doing it too.

Thanks Paddy. I'll keep you posted

Monsclara

paddy147 wrote: »

Or a lump hammer???;):D

Only kidding.:)

:eek:

Burt Lancaster

Ask Prince Charles

Monsclara

cozzie55 wrote: »

IF you don't have a shovel handy then use a long kitchen/bread knife. Your guaranteed to destroy the roots but once you water etc etc as mentioned above it should recover from the shock.
I would say don't do the job while its overly warm and dry as the plant will dry out too quickly. This weather is good for it but you may be better off leaving it till september/october. I would be doubtful of getting many buds on the plant next year if you want though.
I'd say your best bet is to wait and transplant later in the year but in the mean time feed the plant as much as possible with good fertiliser.

Thanks Cozzie55. Given the advice so far, it will be September before I get my head around this project! I'll see how difficult it's going to be and if difficulty levels seen very high, I will be glad to postpone til the autumn - and not necessarily autumn 2012:rolleyes:

Sonnenblumen

Oldtree wrote: »

I dont think it could be said that we have a drought here at the moment, nor is one likely to arrive any time soon. As long as the same watering regimen is maintained for this summer, and perhaps for next spring if dry, it matters not whether the plant is in a pot or transplanted. In fact it could benefit the plant to allow it to set new roots before the winter. This is not really transplanting, as such, more a potting up issue.

By drought I was referring to the plant drying out in the pot and not the prevailing climate. Camellias (in pots especially) which suffer any prolonged dry spell between summer and October will result in a lack of buds the following year.

The key question is why do camellias not bud? The solution has nothing to do with transplanting.

Monsclara

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

I doubt the problems affecting your Camellia have anything to do with 'pot-bound' and transplanting now would exacerbate the current problem. Drought (during previous summer) is more likely to be the cause for lack of buds this year.

Camellias are very vulnerable to drought and transplanting during the summer period into ground/pot would not be advisable.

Thanks. I would partially agree with you, but I have another 2 Camellias, one, a couple of years younger and the second about 4 years younger, both in smaller pots and they had more buds and flowers this season than ever before. They are situated beside the big one and get the same treatment etc. So given all the similar circumstances, I could only put the non-bud forming down to being pot-bound. But I'm no expert so I'd be happy to receive any other advice you might have.

Monsclara

Burt Lancaster wrote: »

Ask Prince Charles

You wha????

Monsclara

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

By drought I was referring to the plant drying out in the pot and not the prevailing climate. Camellias (in pots especially) which suffer any prolonged dry spell between summer and October will result in a lack of buds the following year.

The key question is why do camellias not bud? The solution has nothing to do with transplanting.[/QUOTE

But I don't understand why 1 out of 3 didn't bud - they were all watered similarly and fed the ericaceous stuff, etc.

paddy147

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

By drought I was referring to the plant drying out in the pot and not the prevailing climate. Camellias (in pots especially) which suffer any prolonged dry spell between summer and October will result in a lack of buds the following year.

The key question is why do camellias not bud? The solution has nothing to do with transplanting.

Its in a pot....Why didnt you say "lack of watering" then??

You said "drought",but somehow you will try to claim that you didnt mean that.We dont have a drought in this country.Infact the country is turning to a more tropical rainfall style climate,as research has recently shown.

"Drought" and "lack of watering" are 2 seperate things

Oldtree

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

By drought I was referring to the plant drying out in the pot and not the prevailing climate. Camellias (in pots especially) which suffer any prolonged dry spell between summer and October will result in a lack of buds the following year.

The key question is why do camellias not bud? The solution has nothing to do with transplanting.

Weather report last night said 200% of normal rainfall this June and highest since records began. Time to plant a bog garden.

The plant in the pot looked very healthy to me and did not look to have been stressed or neglected in the past, thus I did not suggest "lack of watering" as a cause. Camellias are a surface rooting plant so it is very possible that pot-bounding would affect budding.

My point on transplanting is that the op wants to lift some cobblelock and plant there, in essence into a large pot, as the cobblelock will be a larger pot and require the same level of maintainance as if the plant was a pot (in water and feeding terms), (note the concrete between the cobblelock which will affect surrounding drainage vs no cobblecock in a garden setting). Putting into a larger "pot" will give the plant some more rooting room and hopefully improve the budding situation.

Sonnenblumen

paddy147 wrote: »

Its in a pot....Why didnt you say "lack of watering" then??

You said "drought",but somehow you will try to claim that you didnt mean that.We dont have a drought in this country.Infact the country is turning to a more tropical rainfall style climate,as research has recently shown.

"Drought" and "lack of watering" are 2 seperate things

Would you ever stop your nonsense and for a change contribute something useful.

paddy147

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Would you ever stop your nonsense and for a change contribute something useful.

Why dont you go and re-read what you actually posted.

Then it wouldnt have to be pointed out to you by others,for you to understand it.

Sonnenblumen

Oldtree wrote: »

Weather report last night said 200% of normal rainfall this June and highest since records began. Time to plant a bog garden.

The plant in the pot looked very healthy to me and did not look to have been stressed or neglected in the past, thus I did not suggest "lack of watering" as a cause. Camellias are a surface rooting plant so it is very possible that pot-bounding would affect budding.

My point on transplanting is that the op wants to lift some cobblelock and plant there, in essence into a large pot, as the cobblelock will be a larger pot and require the same level of maintainance as if the plant was a pot (in water and feeding terms), (note the concrete between the cobblelock which will affect surrounding drainage vs no cobblecock in a garden setting). Putting into a larger "pot" will give the plant some more rooting room and hopefully improve the budding situation.

I do not think the unusually high levels of rain especially within the last month will do little to alleviate any problems caused last year. I believe the low rate of budding this year is related to the plant suffering dry conditions during last year's growing season. And yes, precisely because the plant looked healthy with lush green leaves etc which is why I think the plant is not potbound. Camellias can be very fussy especially in containers and in the longer term would do better planted in suitable ground conditions.

Anyway, the owner can decide what to do with all the various feedback.

BTW, it is generally advisable not to move evergreen shrubs during the summer, not least a specimen shrub such as a Camellia. I would be less concerned with the risk of losing some budget plant.

Oldtree

what I was attempting to point out is that there was no shortage of rain last year either and the op has assured us of constant watering and maintainance, so I'd have to ask the op the following (trying to firm up the diagnosis):

"Any signs of stress, such as wilting which would indicate lack of moisture last year towards the end of summer?"

see here

http://apps.rhs.org.uk/advicesearch/profile.aspx?pid=423

Monsclara

Oldtree wrote: »

what I was attempting to point out is that there was no shortage of rain last year either and the op has assured us of constant watering and maintainance, so I'd have to ask the op the following (trying to firm up the diagnosis):

"Any signs of stress, such as wilting which would indicate lack of moisture last year towards the end of summer?"

see here

http://apps.rhs.org.uk/advicesearch/profile.aspx?pid=423

I've attached 3 pics. One is a 3 year old Camellia in a pot with healthy pink flowers this Spring. The 2nd is almost 5 yrs old. It's a beautiful white one. First season I got 1 flower:(This season it was a sea of white:). And the third is the one that got no buds this year for the first time ever. As stated already, I'm no expert - to be honest I'm not sure of the definition of wilt (presumably a leaf that looks limp and eventually falls off?), which is why I posted the pics so one can judge for themselves. I really appreciate all the feedback, but my overall question is this: why does one of the Camellias not produce buds when the other 2 do produce buds and healthy crops of flower? Location, conditions (including climate!) and attention are all pretty equal. To me, there is something specific to the large one, this year, that doesn't apply to the others - we can't blame drought, under/over watering etc., as they have all been equal. I take on board the rather changeable weather conditions here, but 3 pots, all within a 4m diameter will by and large experience similar weather conditions.
Is it possible that if the large one isn't pot-bound, and all else is equal, then it may have a disease, and if so, what are the signs to indicate this?

Look forward to your thoughts.

PS Is there evidence of wilt from the pics? Maybe I'm missing the obvious:o
PPS. What's an OP?:o

Monsclara

OP: Original Post??

Oldtree

There is no obvious signs of disease on you plants so it is more likely to be an environmental issue. We have eliminated lack of water so that would only leave somthing like:

http://apps.rhs.org.uk/advicesearch/profile.aspx?pid=327

Do not feed camellias later than the end of July, as excessive or late feeding can lead to bud drop
Protect tender cultivars with a double layer of horticultural fleece in winter, as low temperatures can lead to bud drop


another possibility is frost could have killed off the flower buds. Was there any evidence of dead buds around the pot late winter, ie did the buds form and then die and drop off?

Monsclara

Oldtree wrote: »

There is no obvious signs of disease on you plants so it is more likely to be an environmental issue. We have eliminated lack of water so that would only leave somthing like:

http://apps.rhs.org.uk/advicesearch/profile.aspx?pid=327

Do not feed camellias later than the end of July, as excessive or late feeding can lead to bud drop
Protect tender cultivars with a double layer of horticultural fleece in winter, as low temperatures can lead to bud drop


another possibility is frost could have killed off the flower buds. Was there any evidence of dead buds around the pot late winter, ie did the buds form and then die and drop off?

Oldtree: no, didn't notice any buds falling off nor lying on the ground around the pot last winter. And definitely no buds arrived for last Spring season. And it still leaves me with the question about why the other 2 Camellias thrived as normal and the oldest and strongest didn't.

But at the end of the day, I've made my decision to put it in the ground under the cobble lock, weather permitting! The concern I have about planting in the ground is whether or not the soil will be compatible (acidic). Is there some way I can test the soil to determine this? Thanks

Oldtree

your local garden center should have a soil testing kit or one of these:

http://www.johnstowngardencentre.ie/mini-ph--moisture-and-light-meter--combination-meter/multi_meterpd.aspx

I havnt use them so dont really know how accurate they are.

Nonetheless i would add some ericaceous compost to the hole. (and chicken manure too )

as I mentioned earlier my camillia has responded to an organic liquid manure with some liquid seaweed therein. I would suggest that you keep an eye on the water content in the new hole as we dont know what type of drainage the soil under the cobble has, (moisture meter).

dont plant any deeper than the plant already is and apply a good 2-3 inches of mulch, composted bark, perhaps use the cobbles you take out to encircle to hole and use that to keep the mulch in place.