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Handing back the keys

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    #92
    nino1
    Registered Users Posts: 826 ✭✭✭nino1


    valleyoftheunos wrote: »
    The Bank won't allow the shortfall to go as an unsecured loan, it wouldn't make any sense for them.

    why not? when the house is in negative equity there would be a shortfall that would be unsecured anyways in the event of a sale so whats the difference?


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    #93
    moneyproblems
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭moneyproblems


    Would the Banks not jump at the chance of getting some money back now and bleed her dry for the difference and come looking at me then too?


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    #94
    riclad
    Registered Users Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    if the shortfall is large,THE chances are they won,t allow house to be sold.
    a Woman was on the radio,6 months ago, loan ,is 400k, house is worth ,200k.
    She pays x amount per month.
    They won,t let her sell, shes on a low income, she pays what she can afford.
    She says there,s no way she,ll ever be able to pay off the mortgage.
    She works in a shop, 3 days a week.


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    #95
    riclad
    Registered Users Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    THE BANK ,S can,t ask you for money,

    no more than, they can ask my sister for money,
    if i owe 20k, on a car.
    the car is in my name,
    my sisters name is not on it.

    IF my sister was living with me,or she was a millionaire ,it makes no difference.
    i,m not married, so i,ll use my sister, to explain my point.
    You can get free advice from FLAC if you are really,concerned about it.
    if the bank lent your wife ,say 130k, they based it on her income,
    SHE IS the only person legally responsible for the mortgage,
    if they want to take someone to court,or foreclose on the house,
    her name will be on the court order ,documents etc

    BANK May think loan is 140,
    if we sell the house we get 70k, minus legal fees,estate agents fees etc eg we get maybe 67k
    ie we may have no hope of getting the other 70k,
    IF she moves out.


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    #96
    TwoShedsJackson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,438 ✭✭✭TwoShedsJackson


    moneyproblems wrote: »
    So if she sells the house and we move out . If the bank doesn't write off the short fall, which is considerable, can the bank come after me for her unsecured debt. Are we in a better negociating positoin with a PPR asset rather than a huge unsecured liability when talking to the banks or does it make a difference?

    She won't be able to sell it without the bank agreeing to the sale. They have the deeds, without which a sale cannot go through. They won't release the deeds to enable a buyer to complete the purchase unless the shortfall is made up.


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    #97
    valleyoftheunos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,332 ✭✭✭valleyoftheunos


    nino1 wrote: »
    why not? when the house is in negative equity there would be a shortfall that would be unsecured anyways in the event of a sale so whats the difference?

    Because with some security they have at least some prospect of being repaid, if they allow it to go unsecured that have none.


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    #98
    moneyproblems
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭moneyproblems


    So what will the banks do, if we can't pay the mortgage?


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    #99
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    moneyproblems wrote: »
    So what will the banks do, if we can't pay the mortgage?

    Its up to you to take up the initiative with the lender. They may be willing to restructure the debt, possibly writing off a portion (or all) of the NE, bringing the mortgage down to an affordable level, providing you avail of the personal insolvency protocols that are currently being setup.

    Essentially- the bank write off sufficient of your o/s loan, you sign up to the personal insolvency rules- which limit your finances, you are left with what is considered sufficient to live on (without TV, Internet, Health Insurance, School Fees etc etc)

    You get your loan written down to a sufficient level that you can manage to repay it- however your finances are dictated to you- and you certainly won't be able to afford luxuries.

    Wait until the bill is actually published- and then get your skates on......


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    #100
    riclad
    Registered Users Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    IF no mortgage is paid, at some point the bank will take your wife, to court ,and get an order to repossess the house.


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    #101
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    riclad wrote: »
    IF no mortgage is paid, at some point the bank will take your wife, to court ,and get an order to repossess the house.

    And they'll take their own sweet time in selling it, and they'll register a judgement against you for the difference between what they sell it for, and the amount outstanding on the mortgage.

    Sticking your head in the sand and taking the ostrich approach is a really bad mistake to make........


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    #102
    cormicar
    Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭cormicar


    I am in NE to the tune of €95K. I bought when I was 24 and must admit I was a bit naive and had no clue about the financial situation in Ireland at the time. Some 8 years later, I wish I knew then what I know now......banks are cnuts!

    I wasn't gambling and trying to make a profit. I just wanted a home ffs.

    I borrowed €280,00 and the bank wants over a half a million euro back with interest. Sounds real fair.

    I will begrudgingly pay back what I owe but it kills me to pay back all that interest knowing that the bank most likely created the loan out of thin air and not from deposits.


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    #103
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,022 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    cormicar wrote: »
    I am in NE to the tune of €95K. I bought when I was 24 and must admit I was a bit naive and had no clue about the financial situation in Ireland at the time. Some 8 years later, I wish I knew then what I know now......banks are cnuts!

    I wasn't gambling and trying to make a profit. I just wanted a home ffs.

    I borrowed €280,00 and the bank wants over a half a million euro back with interest. Sounds real fair.

    I will begrudgingly pay back what I owe but it kills me to pay back all that interest knowing that the bank most likely created the loan out of thin air and not from deposits.
    I'd imagine if banks only lent from deposits that lending would be next to impossible to come by and would be very expensive.

    You wanted a home and you have a home. I don't see the problem tbh. Do you want to move out of this home you wanted or something?


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    #104
    gmisk
    Registered Users Posts: 32,798 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    cormicar wrote: »
    I am in NE to the tune of €95K. I bought when I was 24 and must admit I was a bit naive and had no clue about the financial situation in Ireland at the time. Some 8 years later, I wish I knew then what I know now......banks are cnuts!

    I wasn't gambling and trying to make a profit. I just wanted a home ffs.

    I borrowed €280,00 and the bank wants over a half a million euro back with interest. Sounds real fair.
    .

    Surely thats the nature of a mortgage?....so yes it does sound fair.
    What exactly do you know now that you didnt know then?

    Obviously there was irresponsible lending going on from banks...but it was still your decision to take the money the bank offered you no?


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    #105
    cormicar
    Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭cormicar


    I just told you - banks are cnuts!

    That's all I have learned in the last 8 years.


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    #106
    gmisk
    Registered Users Posts: 32,798 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    What exactly have they done to you for you to decide they are cnuts?
    Made you pay a mortgage you agreed to pay and signed up to?


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    #107
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,618 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    99.9% of loans come with accrued interest, its the nature of the business I'm afraid. After all the lender has to get something for lending you the money, don't they?

    Mortgages, simply because you are being loaned a large amount of money over a long time, gather a lot of interest, but everyone who has ever taken a mortgage will (or at least should) know this. Do you really think you can get €280,000 and pay back not much more over 25-->35 years? If so, you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

    I agree that the banks engaged in irresponsible lending, but there was an equal amount of irresponsible borrowing.


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    #108
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,711 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    cormicar wrote: »
    I just told you - banks are cnuts!

    That's all I have learned in the last 8 years.

    They are indeed far from wonderful, and have lend unwisely wholesale.

    But it takes two to tango, and you borrowed the money, and agreed to pay it back too.


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    #109
    cormicar
    Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭cormicar


    cormicar wrote: »
    I just told you - banks are cnuts!

    That's all I have learned in the last 8 years.


    But seriously, I do take your point and I knew what I was signing up for and I will pay my debts. I just have a problem with how banks lend their money. I always thought that banks take in deposits and lend them out at a higher rate of interest but what I didn't know is they actually create money out of thin air and lend that out and charge interest on it. Now that's just not right!!!


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    #110
    Scortho
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,876 ✭✭✭Scortho


    cormicar wrote: »
    But seriously, I do take your point and I knew what I was signing up for and I will pay my debts. I just have a problem with how banks lend their money. I always thought that banks take in deposits and lend them out at a higher rate of interest but what I didn't know is they actually create money out of thin air and lend that out and charge interest on it. Now that's just not right!!!

    So how'd you think they were able to give you cash any time you withdrew money from the bank!
    It's been the way banks have lent for god knows how long! How is it not right? They give you the money to buy a house, you bought said house and agreed to pay back x amount per month.
    If you weren't in neg eq would you still be complaining about it?


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    #111
    riclad
    Registered Users Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    IF theres a married couple ,living together,

    I do,nt know if one person who is married can go bankrupt under the new personal insolvency law,
    while the other person is working, on a good wage,
    with few debts,
    eg the wife has a large mortgage ,in her name.

    theres a good item on it on pat kenny show today,
    RE how it will work in practice,whats the rules,



    eg if i,m on a good wage, can my wife go bankrupt?

    http://www.rte.ie/radio1/today-with-pat-kenny/


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    #112
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,711 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    riclad wrote: »
    IF theres a married couple ,living together,

    I do,nt know if one person who is married can go bankrupt under the new personal insolvency law,
    while the other person is working, on a good wage,
    with few debts,
    eg the wife has a large mortgage ,in her name.

    theres a good item on it on pat kenny show today,
    RE how it will work ,whats the rules,

    see rte.ie radio 1.

    eg if i,m on a good wage, can my wife go bankrupt?

    http://www.rte.ie/radio1/today-with-pat-kenny/

    If it's a family home the property and mortgage will be in joint names I'd have thought.


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    #113
    Scortho
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,876 ✭✭✭Scortho


    riclad wrote: »
    IF theres a married couple ,living together,

    I do,nt know if one person who is married can go bankrupt under the new personal insolvency law,
    while the other person is working, on a good wage,
    with few debts,
    eg the wife has a large mortgage ,in her name.

    theres a good item on it on pat kenny show today,
    RE how it will work ,whats the rules,

    see rte.ie radio 1.

    eg if i,m on a good wage, can my wife go bankrupt?

    http://www.rte.ie/radio1/today-with-pat-kenny/

    The spouse isn't liable for her partners debt. Case in point would be Sean Fitzpatrick. Still living in his house even though he is bankrupt because his wife owns half of it. The trustee would be in charge of the the other half but you cant appoint a receiver to half a house, but there is a possibility that mrs Fitzpatrick would be liable for half the market rent.


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    #114
    cormicar
    Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭cormicar


    Scortho wrote: »
    So how'd you think they were able to give you cash any time you withdrew money from the bank!
    It's been the way banks have lent for god knows how long! How is it not right? They give you the money to buy a house, you bought said house and agreed to pay back x amount per month.
    If you weren't in neg eq would you still be complaining about it?

    The banks still have cash reserves but this is less than 5% of the total money on average. The rest is digital money.

    With fractional reserve banking a bank can lend out 10 times (and sometimes more) what it has in deposits and then charge interest on it. IMHO that's a f*ckin joke.

    Just because something is done for a long time doesn't make it right....

    OP - if I were you I would contact the bank and try and restructure the loan and maybe ask for a lower interest rate on the shortfall if you do sell.


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    #115
    Boskowski
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭Boskowski


    In fairness now you didn't have to be a prophet from 2003 onwards to see things were out of kilter.
    Just observation and common sense would have told you that Ireland's economic power on the one hand and inflation and people's lifestyle on the other we're a mismatch.
    Good agricultural sector, a decent bit of service industry and a small bit of tourism and all of a sudden we were outperforming all the industrial powerhouses of Europe? Bricklayers earning more than doctors in other countries?
    Surely we couldn't have been that deep up our own arses to think this was justified and sustainable?


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    #116
    Glenbhoy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,853 ✭✭✭Glenbhoy


    Scortho wrote: »
    The spouse isn't liable for her partners debt. Case in point would be Sean Fitzpatrick. Still living in his house even though he is bankrupt because his wife owns half of it. The trustee would be in charge of the the other half but you cant appoint a receiver to half a house, but there is a possibility that mrs Fitzpatrick would be liable for half the market rent.

    In the UK the trustee can take possession of the asset after 1 yr and sell the whole asset (dividing the proceeds 50% between the spouse and the creditors), what usually happens however is that the spouse not involved in the insolvency buys the other 50% from the trustee and normally at a pretty keen price since half a house isn't actually that saleable!!


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    #117
    cormicar
    Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭cormicar


    Boskowski wrote: »
    In fairness now you didn't have to be a prophet from 2003 onwards to see things were out of kilter.
    Just observation and common sense would have told you that Ireland's economic power on the one hand and inflation and people's lifestyle on the other we're a mismatch.
    Good agricultural sector, a decent bit of service industry and a small bit of tourism and all of a sudden we were outperforming all the industrial powerhouses of Europe? Bricklayers earning more than doctors in other countries?
    Surely we couldn't have been that deep up our own arses to think this was justified and sustainable?

    Well I for one didn't see it coming. Thinking back I had a feeling it might crash but wasn't sure. I was honestly worried that if I didn't buy when I did, the prices would just keep rising. Ah well - I'm stuck now in a 2 bed apartment or alternatively I can sell it and pay the bank back almost €400 a month for the next 30 years. How depressing is that.


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