Should charities pay tax?

christmas2012

'SECRET' top-up payments to disability charity chiefs on salaries up to €150,000 are being investigated by Department of Health officials.
The officials are conducting a high-level probe into how the charities are spending €1.5bn in state funding.
They now believe some senior executives are getting extra payments on top of their salaries.
But a number of the charities are refusing to divulge details of any bonus or top-up payments, which in some typical cases are suspected to range in value between €22,000 and €43,000.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/probe-into-topups-for-150000-charity-chiefs-3040011.html


What do you think should charities start paying tax on what the company earns,if they are happy to profit from ireland,surely they should have to pay tax in ireland?

Praetorian Saighdiuir

But.....but.....but, they already pay the Homer Tax!!

Jester252

Any charity where less then 65% of the money given to it goes to help people should pay Taxs on the % of the income that are going to pay for the company

Scioch

Whatever they pay out in salaries should be classed as profit and taxed on it accordingly.

srsly78

People seem to be confused between the charities income and the employees personal salary.

If they aren't paying tax on their salaries then that's illegal tax evasion.

What is in question is the outrageous salaries they get paid in the first place, using taxpayers money.

philologos

LordSmeg wrote: »

Whatever they pay out in salaries should be classed as profit and taxed on it accordingly.

Salaries are already taxed for these organisations.

The idea that donations for charities should be taxed is absurd.

sock puppet

LordSmeg wrote: »

Whatever they pay out in salaries should be classed as profit and taxed on it accordingly.

Yeah count expenses as profit. That makes sense

Scioch

philologos wrote: »

Salaries are already taxed for these organisations.

The idea that donations for charities should be taxed is absurd.

Whats absurd is the amount of donations being re-directed into extremely well paid peoples pockets. Not only should those getting the salaries be paying income tax but the charity itself should be treated like any other business on any monies not directly being spent on what they claim its being collected for. If it already works that way fine, if not it should.

christmas2012

philologos wrote: »

Salaries are already taxed for these organisations.

The idea that donations for charities should be taxed is absurd.

No i dont think it is a lot of businesses are paying huge donations to charities and it should be taxed,i think its only fair,and if charities are really concerned about the welfare of all and equity,they should not complain about it either.

Scioch

sock puppet wrote: »

Yeah count expenses as profit. That makes sense

Makes sense to me. A charity being taxed on what it doesnt use directly in aid. Rather than tax exempt and free to pay huge sums of money to employees out of money being collected under the pretense of providing aid.

fasttalkerchat

They should pay tax in line with "administration costs".
If 100% of funding is used for charity then tax should be 0%. This would act as an incentive to reduce costs.

Capt'n Midnight

charities can't claim back VAT

so can't write off the cost in the same way business can

sock puppet

LordSmeg wrote: »

Makes sense to me. A charity being taxed on what it doesnt use directly in aid. Rather than tax exempt and free to pay huge sums of money to employees out of money being collected under the pretense of providing aid.

How can it possibly make sense? It flies in the face of the most basic of accounting rules.

Scioch

sock puppet wrote: »

How can it possibly make sense? It flies in the face of the most basic of accounting rules.

I'm not saying the charities should count it as profit or change the rules of accounting I'm saying it should be treated similarly to profit by the revenue seeing as it is not actually going towards the charitable end of the business. Its going to employees in the form of very high salaries and bonuses while the organisation as a whole enjoys tax exemption. There should be some obligation to make sure the money is going to the right place and not just being re-directed into pockets through salaries and bonuses.

But I'm no accountant so I could be talking nonsense.

Lyaiera

Or maybe people can investigate who they give their charity money to and not hand it out to any random collector on the street. I have a few charities I'll happily give to whenever I encounter their collectors and who I'll go out of my way to donate to every so often.

garys

If a charity organisation is making a profit then it should certainly pay taxes (although in my opinion - although few charities probably give out all they take in - if a charity is making a profit its not really a charity, its a company that specialises in the redistribution of wealth at a fee). Although there should be some allowance for contingency money (famine, natural disaster funds... regulation needed).

Taxes on salaries should obviously be taxed (PAYE, PRSI, USC), its fairly sick to think that honest hard working people donate to charities that benefit the people who work for it (who are more than likely better off that the people that donated) more than the people it advertises that its helping. If those people worked for other companies they won't get near as much as they get now....

christmas2012

Ive worked for a charity as a care worker and its min wage,most of the money filters up to the top to pay CEOs some of which are on 200,000 a year salaries..

fasttalkerchat

christmas2012 wrote: »

Ive worked for a charity as a care worker and its min wage,most of the money filters up to the top to pay CEOs some of which are on 200,000 a year salaries..

Store Managers at Oxfam get around €35k iirc and do much less than a store manager in a small retail store.

christmas2012

Okay i get your point about the store manager in oxfam and other such ''charity'' shops,i see they do booming business,and get free clothes(they dont have to pay warehouse fees or anything)..

They get free ce workers there too,all for nothing,its a scandal a big scam,and a disgrace,and the way these places are run,ive seen it for myself is beyond reason to put it mildly ive seen people who are on the schemes steal things from there..I remember reporting one of them and i got in **** with it over the manager didnt realise it was all of them doing it..Most of the good stuff wouldnt hit the shop floor they would just take it..

Cookie_Monster

Charities should be made fully split the admin and running expenses from the charity money. Anything that crosses from the charity account to the business account should be taxed as a normal business would be and as long as funds stay in the charity account and get paid out to causes they remain expempt.

garys

christmas2012 wrote: »

Ive worked for a charity as a care worker and its min wage,most of the money filters up to the top to pay CEOs some of which are on 200,000 a year salaries..

I know there are loads of people who give their time and effort for little reward in order to help others. I respect that and feel that those people don't get enough recognition.

Its the guys at the top that bother me.... one of my friends parents works for a big charity organisation (which shall remain nameless). He's on the board and has no other job... yet he has a huge house in a top residental area.... makes mega bucks.... money that he wouldn't possibly get anywhere else... and that annoys me... people donate money and it ends up in the pockets of people like him.

I don't know the stats, but do u have any idea what % of money donated ends up at the original cause??

sock puppet

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Charities should be made fully split the admin and running expenses from the charity money. Anything that crosses from the charity account to the business account should be taxed as a normal business would be

A charity has €100,000 expenses, so transfers €100,000 into their admin account to pay for this. What exactly would they be taxed on?

Cork24

used to pay 15 euros a month to Enable Ireland, only to find out their CO is taken more Income then any other Charity out their..

Cancer Society Ireland i wouldnt even give them 2 euro for a flower

garys

extreme example ....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1314543/Bonos-ONE-foundation-giving-tiny-percentage-funds-charity.html

christmas2012

In order for charities to work they need employees but ya that is over the scale completely..Worst ive seen yet,heres some reading on our irish charities in the irish examiner:


GOAL
International humanitarian agency
Chief executive: John O’Shea
Salary 2010: N/A.
Salary 2011: No member of GOAL earns in excess of €100,000 per annum.
Expenses 2010/2011: Chief executive does not have an expense account.
Bonus payments: None.
Pension entitlements: Defined contribution scheme.
Company car: 2007 Nissan Tiida purchased a year ago for €7,000. It is owned by GOAL.
Charity income 2010: €72.4m.
No of euro paid to chief executive per €1,000 of charity income: N/A.

FOCUS IRELAND
Works to advance rights of the homeless.
Chief executive: Joyce Loughnan
Salary 2010/2011: €125,000 .
Expenses 2010: €3,245 (travel).
Expenses 2011: €2,404 up to August (travel). All staff are covered by the same expense rules. Expenses for work-related travel are reimbursed in accordance with the Revenue Commissioners mileage rates.
Bonus payments: None.
Pension entitlements: All staff are members of the defined contribution scheme. Focus Ireland makes a standard employers contribution to this scheme of 7% of pensionable salary (ie, 7% of salary minus 1.5 times the state pension rate).
Company car: None.
Charity income 2010: €18.14m.
No of euro paid to chief executive per €1,000 of charity income: €6.89. For every euro Focus Ireland receives, 91c is spent directly on services.

ENABLE IRELAND
Provides services to children and adults with disabilities.
Chief executive: Fionnuala O’Donovan
Salary 2011: €156,340. Waived a pay increase of 2.5% in 2008.
Took a further cut in January 2010 to bring her salary into line with the public service cut of 12%.
Expenses 2010/2011: Travel only and based on recorded mileage paid at public sector mileage rates.
Bonus payments: Has not availed of the 10% bonus available to all senior public sector grades.
Pension entitlements: Contributory defined benefit pension scheme.
Company car: None.
Charity income 2010: €50.4m.
No of euro paid to chief executive per €1,000 of charity income: 0.3% of total income.

COPE FOUNDATION
Provides services for 1,800 children and adults with intellectual disability and autism.
Chief executive: Colette Kelleher (appointed April 2011).
Salary 2011: €130,000.
Expenses 2011: €260 (vouched).
Bonus payments: None.
Pension entitlements: Nominated Health Agency Superannuation Scheme. This is a contributory pension scheme and provides the following benefits: 1/80th of salary per year of service (max 40 years)
Lump sum: 3/80ths of salary per year of service (max 40 years).
Company car: None.
Charity Income 2010: €63.9m.
No of euro paid to chief executive per €1,000 of income: €1.96.

CONCERN
International humanitarian agency
Chief executive: Tom Arnold
Salary 2010: €130,000 (based on assistant secretary grade in the public service).
Salary 2011: No change.
Expenses 2010/ 2011: Vouched. No figures supplied. It is Concern policy to fly economy class and use public transport where available.
Bonus payments: None.
Pension entitlements: The chief executive is on secondment from the Department of Agriculture where he was assistant secretary general.
Concern maintains his pension rights under that scheme.
Company car: None.
Charity income 2010: €167m.
No of euro paid to chief executive per €1,000 of charity income: €0.78.

BROTHERS OF CHARITY SERVICES IRELAND
Provides services and supports to people with intellectual disability and autism and their families.
National chief executive: Winifred O’Hanrahan
Salary 2010/2011: The HSE scale applicable to the national chief executive of the Brothers of Charity is a four-point scale from €19,901 to €37,927.
Expenses 2010/2011: No bonus, unvouched expenses or overtime payments are attached to the post. All travel and subsistence are aligned to rates approved by the Department of Health.
Bonus payments: See above.
Pension entitlements: Nominated Health Agency Superannuation Scheme. This is a contributory pension scheme and provides the following benefits: 1/80th of salary per year of service (max 40 years).
Lump sum: 3/80ths of salary per year of service (max 40 years).
Basic salary is subject to the public sector pension deduction.
Company car: None.
Total budget 2010: €187,618,979.
In 2010 the national chief executive’s salary represented 0.07% of the total annual budget.

BÓTHAR
Overseas aid agency that specialises in livestock production and supports support related training and development.
Chief executive: David Moloney.
Declined to release remuneration package details on the basis that they "do not individualise details of remuneration packages to any of the staff in our accounts".
Charity income for year ended June 30, 2010: €7.7m.

BARNARDOS
Provides services to children and families in need.
Chief executive: Fergus Finlay
Salary 2010: €113,315 (equivalent to 5th point on salary scale of HSE assistant national director). However, net cost to Barnardos is €88,000 because the chief executive contributes a minimum of €25,000 a year from fees earned through board memberships, speaking engagements and writing and broadcasting.
Salary 2011: No change
Expenses 2010: €7,900 on outgoings such as accommodation and cost of travel (including petrol) and contribution towards car maintenance (vouched — uses his own car). Mileage for 2010 was 25,000.
Expenses 2011: N/A.
Bonus payments: None.
Pension entitlements: Chief executive contributes a portion of his salary to a defined contribution scheme.
Company car: None.
Charity income 2010: €24m.
No of euro paid to chief executive per €1,000 of charity income: €4.70.

ARTHRITIS IRELAND
Chief executive: John Church
Refused to divulge any details.
A spokesperson said: "We don’t disclose remuneration details of any staff."

ALZHEIMER SOCIETY OF IRELAND
Provides services to people with all forms of dementia, to their families and to their carers.
Chief executive: Maurice O’Connell
Salary 2010: €121,200.
Salary 2011: No change.
Expenses 2010: €1,877.
Expenses 2011: None.
Bonus payments: Not applicable.
Pension entitlements: Defined contribution — 5% contributed by the society.
Company car: A Honda until December 2011 when arrangement ends as a cost saving exercise.
Charity income 2010: €17.8 million
No of euro paid to chief executive per €1,000 of the charity’s income: €6.80.

NATIONAL COUNCIL FOR THE BLIND OF IRELAND
Provides services for people with sight loss.
Chief executive: Des Kenny
Salary 2010: €127,184
Salary 2011: €125,326
Expenses 2010: €1,120
Expenses 2011: None. Mr Kenny does not drive, does not receive a payment in lieu of a car allowance and must vouch for travel expenses.
Bonus payments: None in 2010 or 2011.
Pension entitlements: Defined benefit. Own contribution of 5%. Company contribution N/A.
Company car: None.
Charity income 2010: €15.2m.
No of euro paid to chief executive per €1,000 of charity income: €8.26.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/kfgbidgbqlgb/rss2/

christmas2012

http://www.thejournal.ie/rehab-chief-on-e234k-gets-extra-e23k-from-state-boards-membership-378176-Mar2012/