Ulster Bank Systems are down part 2 *READ* First post

km79

war_child wrote: »

i deal with ptsb and ive always found them superb online banking at the touch of a button withdrawals transfers done with no hassle at all ... i only mention this because my mother in law whos in receipt of pension and and banks with ub has had nomoney for 2 weeks is expected to run a house on one single payment her husbands of which our terrific government has stuck their sticky mits in and taken 15 euro aweek due to so called uppaid personal taxes from 38 years ago ...ha ha ha aint this country grand ..oh and she has moved to ptsb

Really considering this myself now. Do nearly all my banking online BUT of I was to get a cheque then its 32km to nearest PTSB branch and I would only ever be able to go in on a Saturday ....

millymoo

No changes here today. Pain in the tu tu.

I am very much affected by this. 2 salaries missing, loans, mortgage and some direct debits unpaid etc. Living off my credit card now.
I am sure this will get resolved in time. I have worked for 10 years in banks IT. When it is fixed i reckon UB / RBS will make their systems iron clad and may well end up the safest place to bank. Well here's hoping anyway. Hopefully all the banks will learn a huge lesson.

Jesus Wept

This has surpassed a glitch. I'm not sure about Hester's use of 'the incident'.

At this stage, I think it should be referred to as The Troubles.

abouttobebanned

Deleted User wrote: »

I am very much affected by this. 2 salaries missing, loans, mortgage and some direct debits unpaid etc. Living off my credit card now.
I am sure this will get resolved in time. I have worked for 10 years in banks IT. When it is fixed i reckon UB / RBS will make their systems iron clad and may well end up the safest place to bank. Well here's hoping anyway. Hopefully all the banks will learn a huge lesson.

Very naive IMO

uberalles

km79 wrote: »

Really considering this myself now. Do nearly all my banking online BUT of I was to get a cheque then its 32km to nearest PTSB branch and I would only ever be able to go in on a Saturday ....

PTSB customers not happy
http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/homeowners-vent-anger-at-ptsbs-moral-bankruptcy-3116958.html

kryogen

My balance still stands at -11euro now, little bit mental as that would be a pretty big swing, I honestly dont know where that much of a swing could have come from.

Cant wait to get my money out and close the account, how can you have confidence in a bank where this happens? The most important bond between the bank and customer is broken.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

wonski

Aquila wrote: »

What happens to direct debits/standing orders due to come out next week,even though i have cash to pay for them,will the system still say i havent?

I will let you know tomorrow morning, or few days later when i got letters from dd originators...

UB claims it will pay them regardless of account balance, but i have my doubts...
Will they pay mortgage payment of 1000E just like that? Regardless of balance/account history? I doubt.

Domhnall66

Aquila wrote: »

What happens to direct debits/standing orders due to come out next week,even though i have cash to pay for them,will the system still say i havent?

Treading very, very cautiously here (for good reason). There is at least a chance that the system will say you haven't. I base this possibility on an update from the horse's mouth (thx to Ogham for the original link): http://www.moneyguideireland.com/letter-from-rbs-chairman-about-problems-affecting-ulster-bank.html

Please note that Stephen Hester also speaks in terms of probabilities...I would at least consider what you might do in the worst case scenario. If something better occurs, e.g. if it is fixed next week before your DDs are due, so much the better.

That's assuming you mean you know you have been credited sufficiently to cover the outgoings. If you mean you have enough of a pre-Wed 20th July balance showing in your account to cover them then I'd refer you to the latest info on Direct Debits on UB's website: http://www.moneyguideireland.com/letter-from-rbs-chairman-about-problems-affecting-ulster-bank.html
If you mean you have actual cash-money, physically to hand, then I'd say pay it via any other means available; post office, via another bank etc. depending on who you are paying and what they accept.

Solair

It would probably be worth actually ringing direct debit originators a few days after you think they ought to have been paid by Ulster Bank.

They will probably be reasonable when you explain it's an Ulster Bank issue, but there are a lot of automatic processes that kick-in on billing systems when a payment is missed that could lead to your phone's outgoing call service being blocked, your credit card being suspended etc.

It's not really reasonable for Ulster Bank to expect direct debit originators to be able to track down which bank which customer comes from. All these processes are automated in billing systems and a lot of the time the customer care agents can't even see banking details for security reasons. They'll just see "unpaid".

I would particularly suggest that you ring any company that could suspend servies unexpectedly i.e. mobile companies, landline companies, broadband companies and credit card providers.

Also, if you've a mortgage elsewhere, or any loans definitely ring the bank and check.

Also, be really careful as sometimes billing systems can display a direct debit as "paid" when it's submitted to the bank. If Ulster Bank's system subsequently declines payment, the direct debit would be returned unpaid. So, you'd end up with your utility bill going from paid, back to unpaid anything up to a week or so after the date.

Again, these processes aren't run in real time, they're run as batches.

So, just monitor your bills carefully while this mess is still ongoing as I don't really think you can trust that anything's been done correctly.

Also a big warning too:

MAKE 100% sure you check insurance companies. Policies can end up cancelled if the premium goes unpaid.

Domhnall66

Solair wrote: »

Also a big warning too:

MAKE 100% sure you check insurance companies. Policies can end up cancelled if the premium goes unpaid.

Christ, I was so focussed on the bloody car tax I forgot about the insurance! Timely advice! :eek::eek::eek:

wonski

Solair wrote: »

It would probably be worth actually ringing direct debit originators a few days after you think they ought to have been paid by Ulster Bank.

They will probably be reasonable when you explain it's an Ulster Bank issue, but there are a lot of automatic processes that kick-in on billing systems when a payment is missed that could lead to your phone's outgoing call service being blocked, your credit card being suspended etc.

It's not really reasonable for Ulster Bank to expect direct debit originators to be able to track down which bank which customer comes from. All these processes are automated in billing systems and a lot of the time the customer care agents can't even see banking details for security reasons. They'll just see "unpaid".

I would particularly suggest that you ring any company that could suspend servies unexpectedly i.e. mobile companies, landline companies, broadband companies and credit card providers.

Also, if you've a mortgage elsewhere, or any loans definitely ring the bank and check.

Also, be really careful as sometimes billing systems can display a direct debit as "paid" when it's submitted to the bank. If Ulster Bank's system subsequently declines payment, the direct debit would be returned unpaid. So, you'd end up with your utility bill going from paid, back to unpaid anything up to a week or so after the date.

Again, these processes aren't run in real time, they're run as batches.

So, just monitor your bills carefully while this mess is still ongoing as I don't really think you can trust that anything's been done correctly.

Also a big warning too:

MAKE 100% sure you check insurance companies. Policies can end up cancelled if the premium goes unpaid.

+1, i already contacted my car insurance company. Their policy is that if you missed payment, the full outstanding is due... There are other policies that say that missed payment may invalidate it.

I know for a fact (because i missed 1 payment in the past), that Meteor bill pay is rather flexible, and the penalty for missed dd is only 1 euro. It took them two weeks to send me a message, and i could pay it either over the phone or in any Meteor shop (cash/card both accepted in store). So don't think anyone would be disconnected before contact is made.

ESB charges 8 euro for missed dd, and they will try to take the money again within1/2 weeks i think.

There are many companies out there, and many charges to be applied to accounts. Hope UB will do what they said, and pay all of those bills on time, otherwise lot of phonecalls to be made to make things right, and have those charges refunded.

bigboss1986

Hi all.My wife is getting MATERNITY BENEFIT to UB every monday.But the point is how we are supposed show UB her payslips to get our money out.:eek: ??Does anyone have same situation? Thx for help

booth70

Can anyone whose salary was due to be paid on Thursday 21st confirm that their salary has come through?:(

If it hasn't I reckon I will be waiting another week as I was due to be paid on Thursday the 28th:mad::mad:

This is getting beyond fceking reasonable:mad:

wonski

booth70 wrote: »

Can anyone whose salary was due to be paid on Thursday 21st confirm that their salary has come through?:(

If it hasn't I reckon I will be waiting another week as I was due to be paid on Thursday the 28th:mad::mad:

This is getting beyond fceking reasonable:mad:

Friend of mine still waiting for pay due on 22/06.

I too was due to be paid on 28th, but since he didn't get paid, i don't think i will see the money until next week.
Still waiting for that one lucky poster who gets his money credited...

scotchy

booth70 wrote: »

Can anyone whose salary was due to be paid on Thursday 21st confirm that their salary has come through?:(

If it hasn't I reckon I will be waiting another week as I was due to be paid on Thursday the 28th:mad::mad:

This is getting beyond fceking reasonable:mad:

My wages go into my UB account every Thursday (or did).

No wages have gone in for the last two Thursdays.

.

macplaxton

wonski wrote: »

Still waiting for that one lucky poster who gets his money credited...

Do you think I should play the Lotto this week?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79473809&postcount=1284

Update to add: I now have one or two transactions showing for the 21st. They are still generally headed (e.g. no specific details other than debit card transaction and that sort of thing). Balances look a bit closer to my actual position, but not 100% sure at the minute. At least they are positive balances and I can dump it out of the ATM if needed.

wonski

macplaxton wrote: »

Do you think I should play the Lotto this week?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79473809&postcount=1284

Update to add: I now have one or two transactions showing for the 21st. They are still generally headed (e.g. no specific details other than debit card transaction and that sort of thing). Balances look a bit closer to my actual position, but not 100% sure at the minute. At least they are positive balances and I can dump it out of the ATM if needed.

Was it same day transfer?
Someone mentioned before same day transfers were unaffected.
If it is not the case - consider yourself lucky, and definitely play the Lotto...

Just to confirm - your account is in Ireland - not NI?

Hibernicis

Assuming that their systems get back up and running, and the account balances are brought back into reasonable shape fairly soon, Ulster Bank's management will be preoccupied with the following over the coming months:

• Catching up on the remnants of the backlog
• Chasing down the additional credit given to customers in cash form during the outage, and trying to get this back
• Dealing with whatever fraud arose during the outage
• Conducting extensive systems and process/procedure reviews and implementing the recommendations
• Resolving account queries in respect of any "lost transactions" and "lost batch jobs" and this is going to be a minefield for them.
• Answering to a plethora of prudential, financial and regulatory audits, parliamentary enquiries, shareholder investigations etc all of which will detract from the day to day running of the bank
• Probably coping with a few less staff at a senior level (after the fall guys fall) and maybe some new brooms (inflicted by the BOE/CBI) whose vigorous sweeping generates even more work for the troops

In other words doing all sorts of things that have nothing to do with the day to day running of a bank. Therefore eye off the ball time. And that’s allowing for the two very substantial assumptions in my opening paragraph above (that their systems get back up and running, and the account balances are brought back into reasonable shape fairly soon)

If they don’t achieve this, (an it may well be too late already) then it’s a Disaster scenario. There are many many statistics about the failure rate of companies who experience a significant disaster. Many of these are pure bull. However one of the most widely accepted statements is this “A Company that experiences a computer outage lasting more than 10 days will never fully recover financially. 50 percent will be out of business within five years.” ("Disaster Recovery Planning: Managing Risk & Catastrophe in Information Systems" by John Toiga, 1989)

I do not believe that Ulster Bank will collapse and leave account holders without their money. If nothing else the Irish Deposit Guarantee Scheme combined with the fact that RBS is owned by the British Government should minimise the risk of people not getting their money back ultimately.

I do however believe that there are other serious risks, depending on which scenario unfolds: Take the scenario outlined above (the most optimistic) - the bank survives as is. Management will be severely distracted, and will also be endeavouring to placate shareholders (their bosses) by making up the cost of the disruption which is currently estimated to be between £100m and £200m across the RBS group. This will be a very very different bank to the one which we are used to.

A second possibility is that "the attempts to clear the backlog" as they euphemistically call it, are somewhat less successful and administrators are appointed to clean it up, or the outfit is broken up and sold/given to other banks to sort out - this could well result in accounts being "locked" for a period to allow a handover audit take place, resulting in a period when accessing funds could be difficult at the very least.

There are a number of variants of the second scenario, from protracted wind-up/down, to immediate hostile takeover. None of these offer any particular comfort to the average account holder.

So my thoughts, after almost two weeks? Is your money ultimately safe - Yes, you will get it all back some day. Are things going to get worse before they get better? Probably. What is the sensible thing to do - Move your deposit/savings NOW while you can, or at the very least 50% of it to another institution and then see how this plays out before making a final decision. That’s what I did.

This is a rewrite of an earlier post (in the previous thread) which unfortunately contravened various posting guidelines and earned me an infraction for "Pointless, non constructive hyperbole”. I genuinely hope that I have not breached any guidelines on this occasion. And for the record, I apologise to the Mods for breaching the guidelines.

Jesus Wept

If I transfer money from my savings account to my current account, will I be able to withdraw it in Branch? Or will they have no record of it moving?

Would I be better off trying to withdraw in Branch from the 'savings deposit account?

the whole year inn

Am I right in thinking I can go into the bank and take some cash out of my account tomorrow or during the week?

whelan1

just checked my account...the balance is different but no new transactions on the statement- balance is lower than yesterday

whelan1

the whole year inn wrote: »

Am I right in thinking I can go into the bank and take some cash out of my account tomorrow or during the week?

yes bring a payslip, photo id and account details

the whole year inn

whelan1 wrote: »

the whole year inn wrote: »

Am I right in thinking I can go into the bank and take some cash out of my account tomorrow or during the week?

yes bring a payslip, photo id and account details

Cheers, i checked my balence and its less aswell today.

Munster_Gal

mine is the same - except the difference is €330!!!!! account is now overdrawn! this is getting really ridiculous!

the whole year inn

Munster_Gal wrote: »

mine is the same - except the difference is €330!!!!! account is now overdrawn! this is getting really ridiculous!

Its time to crack some skulls.

Munster_Gal

the whole year inn wrote: »

Its time to crack some skulls.

Moving my account anyway for a start! Just ordered a paper statement and once that's received I'm leaving Ulster Bank!

jayteecork

Just checked my account, a payment from pokerstars of 80 went in but I'm still waiting on other payments, ah well something anyway.

Thank God this isn't my main bank account, just use it cause of Ulster Bank's visa debit card

Vicxas

Still nothing on my end. Its getting very nervous now as My OH's wages are running thin and thats what we've been running on since this started.

Im really thinking about moving but ive an Overdraft with them atm and cant close it with an OD in place