Player of the Tournament

larchielads

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

I'm starting to remember why I don't visit this forum very often any more... night all.

night joe

Blatter

Pirlo

Pirlo was great but words just cannot describe how good Iniesta is.

~Rebel~

larchielads wrote: »

i notice they were all against ireland, 1 goal for and conceded 7,8 goals well done pirlo to be the stand out player against a ****e team.

Umm, no they weren't. Some of those shown were clearly from each of the group games.

Here's one from myself during the Croatia game too.

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Jesus Pirlo, what a fuckin' player. Absolutely owning this game in every respect.

Against Italy I'd nearly have an extra man in midfield to just man mark him.

He was absolutely immense in the first game against Spain too. Especially in the first half.

Sir Gallagher

larchielads wrote: »

pirlo wasnt even thought about til after the england game. the english media hyped him up so much after that,that we took notice. done bugger all in the group games ok he scored 1 goal but seriously folks he done sweet **** all bar the england game where he was given time and space to do whatever he liked. any good player given that amount of time and space woyld surely make an impression.

tdv123

Pirlo

larchielads wrote: »

i notice they were all against ireland, 1 goal for and conceded 7,8 goals well done pirlo to be the stand out player against a ****e team.

Well my comment was about the Spain group stage game & I see atleast one more is aswell.

JohnnyRyan99

Xabi Alonso for me. Lost very little in the air, strong in a tackle and as good a passer as you'll find, not to mention important goals against France. Thought he was pretty much the complete midfielder during the tournament. Class act in every game.

JPA

Pirlo

Blatter wrote: »

Pirlo was great but words just cannot describe how good Iniesta is.

This. Thought he was Spain's standout player from their front 6 just about every game, always making something happen.

I'm surprised he's not winning this poll.

pickarooney

I didn't think there really was one.

GavRedKing

Pirlo

Iniesta, tore through the rear guard of Italy at will last night, saved his best game of the tournament when it mattered most.

Even though Italy enjoyed similar levels of possesion against Spain, Pirlo had little to no effect on the game, especialy when his team needed him the most, I thought the Spanish midfield hurried him up more so then any team at this Championship and showed in the Final.

No trying to take away from Pirlo's performances at these Euro's though.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Pirlo

larchielads wrote: »

i notice they were all against ireland, 1 goal for and conceded 7,8 goals well done pirlo to be the stand out player against a ****e team.

They were all against Spain.

Blatter

Pirlo

Andres Iniesta has been named player of the tournament.

Well deserved.

http://www.uefa.com/uefa/mediaservices/mediareleases/newsid=1838241.html?rss=1838241+UEFA+EURO+2012+Team+of+the+Tournament&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

JP Liz V1

Pirlo

Blatter wrote: »

Andres Iniesta has been named player of the tournament.

Well deserved.

http://www.uefa.com/uefa/mediaservices/mediareleases/newsid=1838241.html?rss=1838241+UEFA+EURO+2012+Team+of+the+Tournament&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

+ 1

Al Capwned

Hard to argue really, he was brilliant, as per usual, but Pirlo must have been a close second.
Maybe the drubbing in the final (and Iniesta's performance, of course) put paid to his chances of winning it!

Beefy78

Pirlo

I think we sometimes take for granted how good Iniesta is. If it wasn't for Messi he'd be the best player in the World, IMO.

Bigtoe107

I think Xavi is or has been better than Iniesta, but admittedly he wasn't at his best in this tournament.

Iniesta has been Spain's stand out player and a well deserved winner

Beefy78

Pirlo

Xavi is also incredible. It's hard to split them but Iniesta's greater goal-threat gives him the nod for me. Just.

Seans_Username

gavredking wrote: »

Iniesta, tore through the rear guard of Italy at will last night, saved his best game of the tournament when it mattered most

Well would that not mean that Pirlo gave his best in all the games beforehand and Iniesta was playing at his usual (very good, about 8/10 in most games) but came to the fore in the final? Surely consistantly owning the pitch (bar one game - albeit the final) would merit the player of the tournament? Pirlo was getting rave reviews during the whole tournament, I suppose Iniesta was just as good but not spoken of because of the teams performances... It might seem like I'm dissing Iniesta, but I'm just asking was he as good as Pirlo in all the games up to the final?

I'm really annoyed that Pirlo didn't win it cos I've been a supporter of AC for a long time and I've always wanted Italy to do well in every tournament. At the same time, I'm not blinded by loyalty to Italy, Iniesta was un-fúcking-real!

It was close, but my heart believed Pirlo deserved it. In my head, it was a tie :pac:

pickarooney

I don't think they should have given it to a Spanish player. Their whole MO is that they work as a unit and singling out an individual doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The player of the tournament should always be someone who makes a huge difference to his team, elevating them from mediocre to contenders or terrible to not that bad. I think Spain would still have won the tournament easily enough without Iniesta.

MD1990

Beefy78 wrote: »

I think we sometimes take for granted how good Iniesta is. If it wasn't for Messi he'd be the best player in the World, IMO.

Ronaldo is definetly better than Iniesta

GavRedKing

Pirlo

Seans_Username wrote: »

Well would that not mean that Pirlo gave his best in all the games beforehand and Iniesta was playing at his usual (very good, about 8/10 in most games) but came to the fore in the final? Surely consistantly owning the pitch (bar one game - albeit the final) would merit the player of the tournament? Pirlo was getting rave reviews during the whole tournament, I suppose Iniesta was just as good but not spoken of because of the teams performances

I'm really annoyed that Pirlo didn't win it cos I've been a supporter of AC for a long time and I've always wanted Italy to do well in every tournament. At the same time, I'm not blinded by loyalty to Italy, Iniesta was un-fúcking-real!

It was close, but my heart believed Pirlo deserved it. In my head, it was a tie :pac:

The winning team will always get the favoured decision, look at Zidane in WC 06, he was miles better then anybody at the tournament but due to the Italians winning and his headbutt :pac: it was given to Cannarvo who was good, but Zidane dragged that team through the tournament.

I think had Italy won Pirlo weould have walked away with the award but UEFA favour the team that won it which is natural.

Not taking anything away from Pirlo as its really nit picking to say who was better as I think they both were very good. Looking at Spains good play and attacking power, it was nearly always Iniesta willing to drive on with the ball or look for the runner, although Xavi played a brillant ball to Alba aswell as a decent assist for Torres.

I'm just glad we seen good games and some brillant performances from excellent players.

Hoping WC 2014 can be another good tournament.

deman

I'm not reading this thread. Stupid poll if you ask me. Pirlo and Iniesta were great but others deserve at least a mention.

FYI, Alonso.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Pirlo

gavredking wrote: »

The winning team will always get the favoured decision, look at Zidane in WC 06, he was miles better then anybody at the tournament but due to the Italians winning and his headbutt :pac: it was given to Cannarvo who was good, but Zidane dragged that team through the tournament.

Pretty sure Zizou won the POTT in 2006, Cannavaro did win WPOTY tho.

jmayo

larchielads wrote: »

in your opinion who was the best left back in the tournament????

Coentrão had a very good tournament and remember he is often sharing a wing with one of the laziest players in the tournament.

Beefy78

Pirlo

MD1990 wrote: »

Ronaldo is definetly better than Iniesta

I don't agree. I'm not a Ronaldo hater, at all. The bloke is top quality. But Iniesta is pure class and never seems to have a bad game, especially not in the big games.

Ronaldo's goal tally is ridiculous, but Iniesta is the better footballer, IMO.

Bad Panda

jmayo wrote: »

Coentrão had a very good tournament and remember he is often sharing a wing with one of the laziest players in the tournament.

I assume you're calling Ronaldo lazy?

Congratulations, you've no idea what you're talking about.

Edit:

I'd go for Pirlo, Ozil, Lahm/Ronaldo, Alba in that order.

Getting back to the pickarooney's logic that the stand out player must be one who makes a big difference to his team.

Not saying Iniesta doesn't, but Spain could've won the tournament without him. They're that good.

ciaranmac

Amazed it took 66 posts before anyone mentioned Xavi.

Gandalph

Bad Panda wrote: »

I assume you're calling Ronaldo lazy?

Congratulations, you've no idea what you're talking about.

I am not going to agree or disagree but I have heard a lot of pundits say the same thing about him being lazy. He doesnt make an effort to get back when needed was the point they were making and showed video evidence in some matches to back it up.

MrJoeSoap

Pirlo

deman wrote: »

I'm not reading this thread. Stupid poll if you ask me. Pirlo and Iniesta were great but others deserve at least a mention.

FYI, Alonso.

They are getting mentions. But there were only two real contenders for the actual title.

Blatter

Pirlo

pickarooney wrote: »

I don't think they should have given it to a Spanish player. Their whole MO is that they work as a unit and singling out an individual doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The player of the tournament should always be someone who makes a huge difference to his team, elevating them from mediocre to contenders or terrible to not that bad. I think Spain would still have won the tournament easily enough without Iniesta.

The player of the tournament should simply be awarded to the best player of the tournament. Iniesta was the best overall. Ran the show in pretty much every game including the final.

And I completely disagree with the idea that Spain would have won the tournament easily enough without Iniesta. He was the conductor of the team, almost everything went through him. We are talking about one of the greatest midfielders of all time here, take him out of the team and they lose so much creativity and incisiveness. Admittedly they would still be a superb team without him, but in the form he was in, he definitely took them to another level.

eagle eye

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

They are getting mentions. But there were only two real contenders for the actual title.

No you are way off saying that.

For me Alonso was the player of the tournament. He was excellent in every game for Spain. Iniesta got better in the knockout stages for sure but he wasn't near that level in the first three games.

You could also make a very good case for Mario Balotelli and for Jordi Alba and Sergio Ramos as well as Busquets. And lets not forget Ronaldo.

jmayo

Bad Panda wrote: »

I assume you're calling Ronaldo lazy?

Congratulations, you've no idea what you're talking about.

But of course you do:rolleyes:

As other poster mentioned I am alluding to fact he doesn't always track back to help the full back.

MrJoeSoap

Pirlo

eagle eye wrote: »

No you are way off saying that.

...

You could also make a very good case for Mario Balotelli

Are you for serious?

Balotelli was so far off being Player of the Tournament it doesn't even warrant mention. There's a reason Pirlo was odds-on last night, and Iniesta 7/2. Because unless Balotelli or Xavi pulled a scorcher out of the bag it was always going to be either Pirlo or Iniesta.

Xavi was 8/1 pre-game. Balotelli 10/1. After the game I'd say you could get five times that for Balotelli, he didn't show up at all.

eagle eye

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

Are you for serious?

Balotelli was so far off being Player of the Tournament it doesn't even warrant mention. There's a reason Pirlo was odds-on last night, and Iniesta 7/2. Because unless Balotelli or Xavi pulled a scorcher out of the bag it was always going to be either Pirlo or Iniesta.

Xavi was 8/1 pre-game. Balotelli 10/1. After the game I'd say you could get five times that for Balotelli, he didn't show up at all.

Well I don't go by betting odds or popularity votes to make my mind up. I do it by watching games and seeing the players.

Balotelli was brilliant in this tournament. I don't know if you have some goggles on that make you see things differently but your comment there is ridiculous.

Beefy78

Pirlo

I wouldn't say he was that brilliant. He was dropped for the Ireland game, missed a hat-full against England and was anonymous (albeit in difficult circumstances) last night. He was unplayable against Germany though.

Gandalph

Mario was ok throughout the tournament he had his moments but he wouldn't get a sniff of the award, most prolific player of the tournament maybe but not best

GavRedKing

Pirlo

THFC wrote: »

Pretty sure Zizou won the POTT in 2006, Cannavaro did win WPOTY tho.

My mistake, it was the WPOTY he lost on that year.

NIMAN

I voted for Pirlo simply because he was generally excellent and he's 33 and little was expected of him.

We all expect Iniesta and Xavi to be great most games because they usually have 60%+ possession and are generally on the team thats always attacking. Plus they have other top players beside them.

Pirlo is getting on, is slow, had ordinary players around him in midfield and often took games by the scruff of the neck and ran the show. Germany game in particular against some very good German midfielders.

OK so he was overrun in the final, but they were around him like a pack of dogs everytime he got the ball, but he still tried last night and often made room for himself.

redzerdrog

my team of the tournament

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buffon

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johnson

---

ramos

---

pepe

---

lahm

---

busquets

---

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pirlo

---

alonso

---

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ronaldo

---

iniesta

---

---

balotelli

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subs alba, ozil, gerrard, cesc, gomez, casillas, silva

MrJoeSoap

Pirlo

eagle eye wrote: »

Well I don't go by betting odds or popularity votes to make my mind up. I do it by watching games and seeing the players.

Balotelli was brilliant in this tournament. I don't know if you have some goggles on that make you see things differently but your comment there is ridiculous.

Balotelli was one of the worst players on the pitch against Spain, twice, in my opinion. He was looking like he could be sent off in the first match, and missed a glorious chance when he took an absolute age to shoot and allowed Ramos to make up about 10 yards and get back to tackle him. Was taken off almost immediately and his replacement scored.

Last night he was pretty much non-existent. Not his fault really, but he struggled to hold on to possession most of the times he had it. His two efforts on goal that I can remember, both flew well over. Played superbly against Germany and got a great goal against Ireland, but that his him in a nutshell, inconsistent and unpredictable.

The Guardian average ratings for Balotelli:

5.2 (v Spain)
5.9 (v Croatia)
7.5 (v Ireland after 15 minutes)
6.7 (v England)
8.7 (v Germany)
5.7 (v Spain)

6.61 average

Compared to Iniesta:

7.9 (v Italy)
8.2 (v Ireland)
6.8 (v Croatia)
7.0 (v France)
7.0 (v Portugal)
8.6 (v Italy)

7.58 average

And Pirlo:

7.4 (v Spain)
7.5 (v Croatia)
6.6 (v Ireland)
8.9 (v England)
8.2 (v Germany)
6.3 (v Spain)

7.48 average

I'd consider that fairly accurate. Feel free to do the same for Xabi Alonso and whomever else: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/euro2012

MrJoeSoap

Pirlo

NIMAN wrote: »

I voted for Pirlo simply because he was generally excellent and he's 33 and little was expected of him.

We all expect Iniesta and Xavi to be great most games because they usually have 60%+ possession and are generally on the team thats always attacking. Plus they have other top players beside them.

Pirlo is getting on, is slow, had ordinary players around him in midfield and often took games by the scruff of the neck and ran the show. Germany game in particular against some very good German midfielders.

OK so he was overrun in the final, but they were around him like a pack of dogs everytime he got the ball, but he still tried last night and often made room for himself.

I'm not disagreeing with you on this, I'm actually inclined to agree with you. But I reckon that had Pirlo had one or two moments of class last night the award was his. And a tighter scoreline may have worked in his favour also. But due to the nature of Spain's dominance it went the other way.

CongoPowers

Pirlo

Delighted for Iniesta. Some craic at his wedding this weekend

G.K.

Pirlo

5.2 for Balotelli in the first Spain game? Ridiculous.

Aside from that infamous Ramos moment he and Cassano were absolutely world class in that match.

MrJoeSoap

Pirlo

G.K. wrote: »

5.2 for Balotelli in the first Spain game? Ridiculous.

Aside from that infamous Ramos moment he and Cassano were absolutely world class in that match.

It's based on 528 votes, not just one or two people's opinions. Goal.com gave him 2/5 and "Flop of the Match".

http://www.goal.com/en/match/71174/spain-vs-italy/player-ratings

This site gave him 5.5

http://socceranchor.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5591:player-ratings-spain-1-1-italy-&catid=54:latest-news&Itemid=167

Mirror gave him 6

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/match-reports/spain-1-1-italy-match-report-871730

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/italy/9323223/Spain-v-Italy-Mario-Balotelli-fluffs-his-lines-as-Antonio-Cassano-steals-show-for-Italy-against-Spain.html

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1216090-spain-v-italy-rating-the-italian-players-in-euro-2012-group-c-showdown/page/11

Can't find any links online that ranked him well in that match. I suggest you watch it again.

G.K.

Pirlo

I was referring to Balotelli's off the ball movement, which english media and the english public tends to not understand. Balotelli was world class in this regard, but it got no mention whatsoever from those articles.

Zonal Marking, one of the best football websites out there, on his performance wrote:

Balotelli and Cassano’s movement was excellent, and their hunger to win individual battles was highly impressive

MrJoeSoap

Pirlo

Apologies to everyone for hijacking this thread with more Mario related nonsense.

G.K. wrote: »

I was referring to Balotelli's off the ball movement, which english media and the english public tends to not understand. Balotelli was world class in this regard, but it got no mention whatsoever from those articles.

So you said that Balotelli and Cassano were both world class in the first Spain match. Now you've changed your point to that their "off the ball movement" was world class. What about the petulance, the booking, the punching the ground, the wasted chance...? He was an abomination in that game and genuinely looked like he was going to be sent off. Italy only scored because he was taken off and Di Natale came on and grabbed the chance he got. Something Balotelli couldn't do.

I've compiled several sites and nobody ranked him well. All you've found is that his "off the ball movement" was excellent. And if you think you're in a better position to rate football than the English media (everyone's favourite scapegoat) or the general public then I despair, because this isn't really a good example of your judgement.

Sky Sports - 6 (4.1 by the fans)

What would you have given his overall perfomance, out of interest?

G.K.

Pirlo

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

So you said that Balotelli and Cassano were both world class in the first Spain match. Now you've changed your point to that their "off the ball movement" was world class.

That was always my point. So what if I wasn't specific. My line of thought and argument has always been "off the ball movement". You could ask people I know IRL. I could scan my A4 page of analysis of that match to show you what I thought about their movement. I've tweeted about it too.

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

What about the petulance, the booking, the punching the ground, the wasted chance...? He was an abomination in that game and genuinely looked like he was going to be sent off.

While he didn't have control of his emotions and couldn't finish, he produced a fantastic performance off the ball. He cannot be called an abomination.

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

I've compiled several sites and nobody ranked him well. All you've found is that his "off the ball movement" was excellent.

Because the movement was a large part of his job. Obviously as a striker ha has to take the scoring burden, but one of the largest facets of his role was the off-the ball work pressing, presurising, and drawing out the Spanish players. And there he was excellent. None of your sites even acknowledged that. I quoted one of the best and well-respected football sites out there, who did so.

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

And if you think you're in a better position to rate football than the English media (everyone's favourite scapegoat)

Living in England all my life has proved to me that the media is more than scapegoated. Some of the stuff it spews out is shocking. One of the better papers (The Telegraph) the other day claimed that Iniesta 'has not reached his customary heights in Poland and Ukraine' - despite him at that point clearly being one of the two standout players, and also said that Llorente had failed to impress in his appearences in Euro 2012.

Don't get me started on Sky Sports.

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

or the general public then I dismay, because this isn't really a good example of your judgement.

Sky Sports - 6 (4.1 by the fans)

The British general public tend to be ignorant, drip fed by Sky Sports. Just today in one discussion the public came up with the following nuggets of wisdom:

"Zlatan Ibrahivomic? You're f*****g kidding me right? He's so over-rated."

"Ibrahimovic should NOT be anywhere near this team!! Over-rated hook nose fcuk!!"

"Busquets seriously wtf he is one of the worst players to ever play he wins spain free kicks thats about it could name 100 midfeilders better than him"

The 4.1 again shows the lack of appreciation of off the ball movement.

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

What would you have given his overall perfomance, out of interest?

7.

Turtwig

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

I've compiled several sites and nobody ranked him well.

If you're going to go the bother of compiling stuff then at least compile something useful. Start with the first minute of the Spain-Italy game and chart Balotelli's performance minute by minute, where he was in the pitch, what he was doing there and why he was doing it. Then compare it as objectively as possible to what would be expected of a player of Balotelli's calibre.

Citing popular opinions is simply not a constructive way to build an argument. It's great that all those people agree with you but if they all jumped off a cliff would you really use the same logic or reasoning?

MrJoeSoap

Pirlo

Jernal wrote: »

Citing popular opinions is simply not a constructive way to build an argument. It's great that all those people agree with you but if they all jumped off a cliff would you really use the same logic or reasoning?

I have the video here and could easily compile the clips of Balotelli's "performance" for everyone here but it goes against copyright and wouldn't be allowed. I could jot down on piece's of paper the runs he made and the area's of the pitch he covered, the times he fouled someone, the times he punched the ground etc... but it really doesn't bother me this much that a couple of people disagree with me. I'm more than happy to go along with the 528 people who have given him the 5.2 average on the Guardian. If they jump off a cliff, I'll stand by and laugh. Soccer really doesn't mean that much to me any more.

When I quote general consensus and it suits people, nobody mentions it. When people don't agree, they get up in arms. The vast majority of people watching the game could see how poor MB was against Spain, but apparently Zonal Marking have said he did alright, so that's gospel. I haven't nit-picked certain sites that have rated MB poorly, I've gone through as many match reports as I can, and have read very little positive about his performance. This all tie's in exactly with how I felt watching the game.

If his off-the-ball play was so good, why was he taken off after 56 minutes. And moreso, why did Di Natale score within four minutes?

And more to the point, why are people still mentioning this prima donna in the Player of the Tournament thread, when he was clearly miles behind half the Spanish team in the running for it.

MrJoeSoap

Pirlo

G.K. wrote: »

That was always my point. So what if I wasn't specific. My line of thought and argument has always been "off the ball movement". You could ask people I know IRL. I could scan my A4 page of analysis of that match to show you what I thought about their movement. I've tweeted about it too.



While he didn't have control of his emotions and couldn't finish, he produced a fantastic performance off the ball. He cannot be called an abomination.



Because the movement was a large part of his job. Obviously as a striker ha has to take the scoring burden, but one of the largest facets of his role was the off-the ball work pressing, presurising, and drawing out the Spanish players. And there he was excellent. None of your sites even acknowledged that. I quoted one of the best and well-respected football sites out there, who did so.



Living in England all my life has proved to me that the media is more than scapegoated. Some of the stuff it spews out is shocking. One of the better papers (The Telegraph) the other day claimed that Iniesta 'has not reached his customary heights in Poland and Ukraine' - despite him at that point clearly being one of the two standout players, and also said that Llorente had failed to impress in his appearences in Euro 2012.

Don't get me started on Sky Sports.



The British general public tend to be ignorant, drip fed by Sky Sports. Just today in one discussion the public came up with the following nuggets of wisdom:

"Zlatan Ibrahivomic? You're f*****g kidding me right? He's so over-rated."

"Ibrahimovic should NOT be anywhere near this team!! Over-rated hook nose fcuk!!"

"Busquets seriously wtf he is one of the worst players to ever play he wins spain free kicks thats about it could name 100 midfeilders better than him"

The 4.1 again shows the lack of appreciation of off the ball movement.



7.

Believe me, I hate Sky Sports as much as the next man (probably more so). It was just another site I found that happened to have a numeric player rating on it and happily enough for me, it tied in with my argument. Discard of it at your leisure.

Beefy78

Pirlo

G.K. wrote: »

The British general public tend to be ignorant, drip fed by Sky Sports. Just today in one discussion the public came up with the following nuggets of wisdom:

"Zlatan Ibrahivomic? You're f*****g kidding me right? He's so over-rated."

"Ibrahimovic should NOT be anywhere near this team!! Over-rated hook nose fcuk!!"

"Busquets seriously wtf he is one of the worst players to ever play he wins spain free kicks thats about it could name 100 midfeilders better than him"

I'm not sure how you get away with spouting such arrogant nonsense. Three cherry-picked quotes are hardly a fair sample on which to judge 60 million people.

The Guardian poll results were tallied using votes from voters all around the World (The Guardian having a massive Worldwide online readership). It wasn't just the idiot Brits who didn't see things the way that you did.