Ireland World Cup 2014 qualifying - insurmountable task?

darkman2

Germany
Sweden
Republic of Ireland
Austria
Faroe Islands
Kazakhstan


I suppose it has to be said that we are in such a tough group due to FIFA needlessly not waiting two days for the new rankings last December which would have made us 2nd seeds. But still it's uncomfortable for Ireland isn't it?

We won't get out of that group with our current players and the same tactics as in Euro qualifying IMO. Such big changes are needed in team. Only one friendly in August before qualifying begins.

Do you see any hope of second spot in that group or have you written off qualifying for Brazil?


What do you think needs to happen with the team if we are to be competitive in that group?

Kidchameleon

darkman2 wrote: »

Germany
Sweden
Republic of Ireland
Austria
Faroe Islands
Kazakhstan


I suppose it has to be said that we are in such a tough group due to FIFA needlessly not waiting two days for the new rankings last December which would have made us 2nd seeds. But still it's uncomfortable for Ireland isn't it?

We won't get out of that group with our current players and the same tactics as in Euro qualifying IMO. Such big changes are needed in team. Only one friendly in August before qualifying begins.

Do you see any hope of second spot in that group or have you written off qualifying for Brazil?


What do you think needs to happen with the team if we are to be competitive in that group?

Well there's always hope of us getting second. We have done it the last two times in succession.

Fight_Night

Hmm yeah going on our current form(even on good form tbh) can't see us getting passed Sweden and Germany with the squad we have. Keep the faith though, 2 years is a long way away in football terms.

ArmaniJeanss

We need Austria, Kazakstan and Faroes to be competitive, in the same way Armenia and Macedonia were in the Euro2012 group.
So even if we don't beat Sweden in either game we could get second place in an attritional group (and hope we aren't the 9th best second place and miss out on a playoff )

Sadly Sweden are masters of qualifying, one of the least vulnerable second seeds we could have got.

darkman2

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Well there's always hope of us getting second. We have done it the last two times in succession.

Yeah but difference is the second seed this time is actually better than us. Do you see this Irish team beaten Sweden home or away in a competitive game? We would surely have to beat them once at least to grab second.

Also Austria might not be too bad either!

Cruel Sun

I don't think it will happen under Trap. I've lost faith in him, and we've got decent young players that could qualify (just about) under a different system.

darkman2

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Sadly Sweden are masters of qualifying

This:(

Kirby

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

We need Austria, Kazakstan and Faroes to be competitive, in the same way Armenia and Macedonia were in the Euro2012 group.
So even if we don't beat Sweden in either game we could get second place in an attritional group (and hope we aren't the 9th best second place and miss out on a playoff )

Sadly Sweden are masters of qualifying, one of the least vulnerable second seeds we could have got.

But like us they have alot of aging players so I wouldn't be so sure about past performances carrying on. Melberg? Ibrahimovic is getting on abit aswell. Didn't he come out of retirement for the euro's? There is probably a few more I've forgotten.

Fight_Night

What's the story with Austria anyway? With their wealth and population they should be competitive, and not lower seeds than us.

monkey9

We won't be getting there under Trap, that's for sure!

Paully D

monkey9 wrote: »

We won't be getting there under Trap, that's for sure!

We wouldn't be getting there under Mourinho or Fergie either. The group is just too tough and Germany and Sweden will finish 1st and 2nd with ease.

Guy:Incognito

Fight_Night wrote: »

Keep the faith though, 2 years is a long way away in football terms.

It sure is, but the qualifiers start in a few months.

LostBoy101

We have young players who are well capble of doing wonders for the team (McCarthy, Coleman, McClean to name but a few). The team at the moment isn't good enough and I think Trap knows that by now.

JerryHandbag

Any chance Ibrahimovic will retire from internationals?

On paper I dont see us qualifying but then I thought Bulgaria & then Slovakia in the last 2 qualifying campaigns would have been tough but they both kinda wilted in those groups.

Mr.Nice Guy

We'll need to beat the Swedes at least once. I reckon we can get the play-off spot but Sweden will fight all the way. Gonna be a much tougher ask this time.

klose

Write off the faroes at your peril..

Kidchameleon

I hear Austria have a few players coming through that might be dangerous. Anyone know what Austria are like at the moment? They won 3, drew 3 and lost 4 in Euro 2012 qualifying. Came fourth behind Germany, Turkey and Belgium.

Fight_Night

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

It sure is, but the qualifiers start in a few months.

A few injuries here and there for sweden and you never know what could happen. But that says it all really, that we are relying on Sweden to mess up before the thing has even started.

thatsnotmyname

Going to be tough to get out of this group

I can see some of those weaker teams being potential banana skins for us!
I hope I am wrong!

Idbatterim

i reckon are chances of qualifying are 20-30%... a real pity that we are third seeds!

thebaz

my biggest fear for Ireland , is we have no truly outstanding players coming through , to replace Dunne, Duff and keane - Coleman and Houlahan and mcLean are good , but somehow I cant see them becoming world class - hope they prove me wrong

kryogen

Don't see it, Germany are Germany, panzer tanks of qualification, and Sweden have an unbelievable record in qualifiers too.

noodler

Sweden have lost a couple of players through retirement.

We got second in the last two campaigns without beating the second seed.....drawing against Sweden twice is hardly beyond the imagaination.

We just need the consistency (we already showed in the last two campaigns) against the other seeds.


EDIT: I have to wonder if people would be more optimistic if we had missed out on the Euros...kind of perverse!

SirDelboy18

Unless the necessary changes are made we haven't a hope.

noodler

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

Unless the necessary changes are made we haven't a hope.

Has something drastically changed? Trap got second in both campaigns he has had so far.

Eathrin

noodler wrote: »

Has something drastically changed? Trap got second in both campaigns he has had so far.

Our squad is far older now and Trap isn't known for experimentation.

noodler

Eathrin wrote: »

Our squad is far older now and Trap isn't known for experimentation.

On the otherhand, Whelan and Andrews were relative nothings when Trap took over and have improved a great deal since their first games.

McGeady has improved without a shadow of a doubt.

Trap will have to bring players in if there are retirements.

There is no doubt that Sweden are an improvement on Bulgaria and Slovakia as second seeds (although I say that about Slovakia in hindsight because I think we all expected more of them in qualifying) but Germany will give them absolutely nothing the same way they will give us absolutely nothing.

So basically, imo, we are playing a slightly improved second seed and will once again be third favourites.

Don't get me wrong, an Ibra U-turn on his decision not to retire would be welcome but I can't say I am daunted to any great extent with this group than the last two.

darkman2

Might be worthwhile taking a punt on a couple of U 21 players. Maybe Clifford, Cunningham and Brady?

darkman2

noodler wrote: »

Whelan

Of all the Irish players (and I know he is a limited player but) I thought Whelan was a disgrace in Euro 2012.

I thought Andrews was a revelation tbh. He did his best and was the best player for Ireland.

noodler

darkman2 wrote: »

Of all the Irish players (and I know he is a limited player but) I thought Whelan was a disgrace in Euro 2012.

I thought Andrews was a revelation tbh. He did his best and was the best player for Ireland.

Oh....well, you can rest assured that breeding players to deal with EURO 2012 winners and finalists isn't really on Ireland's agenda . No, our goals aren't quite as lofty as that.

I know Whelan was useful enough in helping us to two consecutive play-offs, probably better to use that as a benchmark for his suitability rather than the midfields of Spain and Italy.

Eathrin

noodler wrote: »

On the otherhand, Whelan and Andrews were relative nothings when Trap took over and have improved a great deal since their first games.

McGeady has improved without a shadow of a doubt.

Trap will have to bring players in if there are retirements.

There is no doubt that Sweden are an improvement on Bulgaria and Slovakia as second seeds (although I say that about Slovakia in hindsight because I think we all expected more of them in qualifying) but Germany will give them absolutely nothing the same way they will give us absolutely nothing.

So basically, imo, we are playing a slightly improved second seed and will once again be third favourites.

Don't get me wrong, an Ibra U-turn on his decision not to retire would be welcome but I can't say I am daunted to any great extent with this group than the last two.

I still don't like Whelan, as for Andrews, I'd have him in the team but I think he's 32 now.

We had fantastic consistency in the last two qualifying, if we continue to take 3 points home and away to the minnows I think Sweden will still push us to the limit. Home result against Sweden is vital.

Last campaign we had a lot of Luck(Estonia for one) and misfortune too(Our euro group). Hopefully we get another slice of luck and Sweden drop points.

darkman2

noodler wrote: »

probably better to use that as a benchmark for his suitability rather than the midfields of Spain and Italy.

I noticed Keith Andrews playing against Spain and Italy. I didn't notice Glen Whelan.

noodler

Eathrin wrote: »

Last campaign we had a lot of Luck(Estonia for one) and misfortune too(Our euro group). Hopefully we get another slice of luck and Sweden drop points.

Agreed, it has been a requirement for the last two campaigns. Bulgaria/Slovakia getting creamed by Cyprus/Armenia.

JustAddWater

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

It sure is, but the qualifiers start in a few months.

Try 8 weeks this week!!

Banjaxed82

I'd fear for the (to quote Trap) mentality of the players. If changes aren't made and we suffer a tonking against Germany I doubt we'll see the return of that team spirit that's dragged us through other campaigns.

Sweden aren't any great shakes but I just dont see what we have to he hopeful about with this squad and those tactics.

noodler

darkman2 wrote: »

I noticed Keith Andrews playing against Spain and Italy. I didn't notice Glen Whelan.

Thats a very matter of fact statement though.

Glen Whelan may have shone in a couple of Ireland's qualifiers over the last few years, does that mean that Andrews should be discarded?

You get my point, players who can perform for us consistently in the qualifiers are vital. We should not be too quick to write off a player's worth just because they performed a little crapper than the other players against some of the world's best.

Eathrin

After seeing us against such quality opposition I fear what Germany may do to us!

ozzy jr

Our chances of getting second are slim.
Our chances of getting second and getting a team we're capable of beating in a play off are even slimmer.

Eathrin

We were lucky with Iran and Estonia, but even when given France we were within arms reach

kitakyushu

I remember our WC2002 campaign and thinking that was an insurmountable task.
However in retrospect I shouldn't have. Prior to it we were literally seconds from winning our qualifying group and qualifying automatically for EC2000. We actually managed to beat good teams in doing so (rather than just playing for a draw in every match and winning occasionally by accident). Basically the clues were there that we'd make a good go of it against Holland and Portugal.

By comparison, this time around what have we done? Got hockeyed by Russia, Spain and Croatia and made Armenia and Slovakia look like world beaters..

So no chance of qualifying if we keep up this form and style of play (and I don't see any reason to believe it will be any different this time around). We'd be better off looking over our shoulders at Austria than plotting how to overcome Sweden.

gnfnrhead

Forget about Germany. We have no chance of finishing above them. Assuming they don't implode, they'll finish top quite easily. We'll be lucky to get a point off them. Kazakhstan I reckon will be the whipping boys this time around. Realistically, six points. The Faroe's won't be easy but we should get at least four points out of them (win at home, draw away).

That puts us somewhere around ten/twelve points out of eighteen but leaves Sweden and Austria. Personally, I wouldn't be confidant of beating either side. Doable, but incredibly tough to get enough from them. Probably need around 20 points to have any chance, likely more unless we see a lot of draws for Sweden and Austria.

We can finish second, but will need the luck to be on our side each time. Other results will need to go our way quite a bit too. I don't think we will qualify, at least not with the current set up. Trap could shock us all and change things up and give us a much better chance but we all know that is incredibly unlikely.

kitakyushu

Germany's qualification record is quite startling. They have only once ever failed to qualify for a finals (1968) and only four times failed to actually win their qualification group outright (1968, 1990, 2002, 2008).

Basically they are second to none in Europe in terms of performing at the qualifying stage. One glimmer of hope is that the two world cup groups they failed to win were 1990 and 2002. A 12 year gap. Another 12 years on and it's 2014, so who knows! Tho in 90 and 02 the winners were Holland and England so it was a case of a strange draw leading to top teams getting paired.

Jesus Wept

Top the group.

Eathrin

Let's not forget we were lucky in quite a few of our matches against armenia and macedonia for example to come away with wins. 16/18 points is essential against Austria, Kazakhstan and Faroes.

Deedsie

12 points minimum against Kazakhstan & Faroe Islands. 4 minimum against Austria, Kazakhstan got a draw off Austria in the Euro Qualifiers. Also, i think Austria could take a point of germany, the came close in Vienna, took a whooping in Germany though. I reckon we could certainly get a Moscow style point in Solna or Landsdowne... Hopefully we can have one of those rare shock performances against the Germans in Dublin/Cologne. Like its not impossible for us to get a draw.

We are a small country with a small pool of players, spoiling should be our approach to the teams seeded above us. We need a big shake up in the squad, lot of faces need to go. We need a different approach also. I still believe we are not as bad as the euros suggested. I'm hoping we can take advantage of Germany/Sweden/Austria underestimating Ireland!

I know it will be tough, but still I dont think supporters should be throwing in the towel before the first punch is thrown.

Easy to be negative.

sReq | uTeK

gnfnrhead wrote: »

Forget about Germany. We have no chance of finishing above them. Assuming they don't implode, they'll finish top quite easily. We'll be lucky to get a point off them. Kazakhstan I reckon will be the whipping boys this time around. Realistically, six points. The Faroe's won't be easy but we should get at least four points out of them (win at home, draw away).

That puts us somewhere around ten/twelve points out of eighteen but leaves Sweden and Austria. Personally, I wouldn't be confidant of beating either side. Doable, but incredibly tough to get enough from them. Probably need around 20 points to have any chance, likely more unless we see a lot of draws for Sweden and Austria.

We can finish second, but will need the luck to be on our side each time. Other results will need to go our way quite a bit too. I don't think we will qualify, at least not with the current set up. Trap could shock us all and change things up and give us a much better chance but we all know that is incredibly unlikely.

Says it all really when we're talking about drawing with the Faroe Islands.

Anyway NO absolute Zero chance of getting out of this group with the current player pool and style of play.

Sweden are a team that should have beaten England and beat France quite easily, we have ZERO chance against them or Germany with the way we play.

Father Damo

^^^^^^


Exactly as above.

One must remember that in our campaigns as play off heroes and nearly men, we got results against past it Italian and French sides. Russia was one of the weakest top seeds we could have gotten for our last group, and even they beat us at home and miracalously didnt do us one in Moscow. Jesus Christ, for all our heart and all of that, the team that Prandelli has moulded this tournament would have slaughtered us home and away. Euro 2012 buried the old adage of there being few great international teams anymore. Without a radical re think on tactics by Trap and the shifting out of some dead wood we are doomed in this one. I would nearly be glad to come third and keep a half decent seeding for 2016 Without a radical squad shake up and allowing young, creative players to make their mark, Germany away could be a cricket score if we stick to the same plan we had at the Euros.

SEPT 23 1989

Germany
Sweden
Austria
Republic of Ireland
Kazakhstan
Faroe Islands

Leftist

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Germany
Sweden
Austria
Republic of Ireland
Kazakhstan
Faroe Islands

i'd take that. Don't even know if there's much point to qualifying if they just embarrass us again, and it's in brazil, think of all the poor lads saving up their dole only to get sunburnt to a crisp or lost in a favela.

The_Kew_Tour

If we were to change system and pick the best squad available can we get at least playoff?

I reckon we can.

GavRedKing

We have to beat Sweden at least once and hope they dont take points from Germany as i think we'll get beat twice by the Germans, then we have a chance at nicking 2nd but i'm not holding too much hope for this campaign.