2012-13 UEFA Champions League

The_Kew_Tour

round in circles

Melion

cson wrote: »

Ah Melon you can't have it both ways, its either League or prior European performance? Which one do you want?

Come on, you're better than that

adamski8

jesus, rub the loss in a bit more!

Melion

batistuta9 wrote: »

but they've done more in europe than city, they're ranked the 6th best team in europe atm, city are 20th

for the draw they were ranked 6th, city were ranked 14th

Thats where my issue lies.

mitosis

Soft groups for Man Utd and Bayern. Horror show for Man City. Others pretty even.

batistuta9

Melion wrote: »

Thats where my issue lies.

and what is this issue? you don't like arsenal or what?

G1032

Melion wrote: »

Why? Neither team has won the competition and thats how id base it.

http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/club/index.html

The_Kew_Tour

Ah come on now, nearly every group for Pot 1 teams is pretty straight forward not just 1 or 2.

Melion

batistuta9 wrote: »

and what is this issue? you don't like arsenal or what?

I actually like Arsenal but how can a team who hasnt won a trophy in nearly 8 years be ranked as the 6th best team in Europe?

G1032

Melion wrote: »

Thats where my issue lies.

Any why would you rank City as better than Arsenal in European terms? They've been in the Champions League once and got knocked out in the group stages.
You're not making much sense here i'm afraid

batistuta9

G1032 wrote: »

http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/club/index.html

city are now ranked 20th, should make him a bit happier :pac:

Dave0301

To be fair it's a UEFA competition, there has to be a standard for all clubs competing across Europe. They use results from European competitions to decide this.

If City keep improving on their performance as they have recently in European football they will reap the rewards, just like Arsenal have.

It makes sense to me anyway!

batistuta9

Melion wrote: »

I actually like Arsenal but how can a team who hasnt won a trophy in nearly 8 years be ranked as the 6th best team in Europe?

because only 5 clubs have preformed better than them in european competitions over the period taken in by the rules

Melion

Lads im sorry but the UEFA Rankings are a joke, Liverpool as #11 is hilarious and we all know it. Its my opinion that City should be in Pot 1, i dont see why people have such a problem with it.

G1032

Melion wrote: »

Lads im sorry but the UEFA Rankings are a joke, Liverpool as #11 is hilarious and we all know it. Its my opinion that City should be in Pot 1, i dont see why people have such a problem with it.

Because they have no European pedigree from the last number of years. It's a european competition

Dave0301

Melion wrote: »

Lads im sorry but the UEFA Rankings are a joke, Liverpool as #11 is hilarious and we all know it. Its my opinion that City should be in Pot 1, i dont see why people have such a problem with it.

Describe your way of picking pots 1-4 then and what teams you believe are deserving.

IncognitoMan

Should Dortmund not be in pot 1 by your logic Melion so. German champions last two years and same performance as city in last years champions league.

Pinturicchio

When are the fixtures decided?

Melion

Dave0301 wrote: »

Describe your way of picking pots 1-4 then and what teams you believe are deserving.

Spanish Champion
English Champion
German Champion
French Champion
Italian Champion
CL Holder

They should be the first 6 teams in Pot 1

evad_lhorg

Melion wrote: »

Lads im sorry but the UEFA Rankings are a joke, Liverpool as #11 is hilarious and we all know it. Its my opinion that City should be in Pot 1, i dont see why people have such a problem with it.

Your opinion is wrong

Melion

IncognitoMan wrote: »

Should Dortmund not be in pot 1 by your logic Melion so. German champions last two years and same performance as city in last years champions league.

See my last post

Melion

I dont see what the problem is, it would make for much better groups for everyone to watch. Imagine a group of Barca, United, Bayern and A.N.Other

The_Kew_Tour

Melion wrote: »

Spanish Champion
English Champion
German Champion
French Champion
Italian Champion
CL Holder

They should be the first 6 teams in Pot 1

and then you could still have got Barca, Bayern and Milan and you still complain.

If your good enough to win CL then you should get out of Group. Simple.

Melion

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

and then you could still have got Barca, Bayern and Milan and you still complain.

If your good enough to win CL then you should get out of Group. Simple.

I just think it would make for much better games to watch and it would mean different teams making the semi-finals rather than the usual few.

Melion

evad_lhorg wrote: »

Your opinion is wrong

Thanks for that incredible input.

Anyone

I genuinely feel that previous european history should count more heavily than the country they came from. How far back you go, well that I'm not sure about.

But its a bit cheeky to see these New Money teams get a leg up in the competition when they already have the benefit of huge resources above other teams.

The_Kew_Tour

Melion wrote: »

I just think it would make for much better games to watch and it would mean different teams making the semi-finals rather than the usual few.

tbf I can kinda see what your getting at and in some ways it would be better, but chances are not much higher and would still need luck of the draw.

Dave0301

Melion wrote: »

Spanish Champion
English Champion
German Champion
French Champion
Italian Champion
CL Holder

They should be the first 6 teams in Pot 1

And what is the fairest way to pick the last two spots?

Who goes into pot 2?

When do teams from leagues like France, Scotland, Russia and others get a look in?

Your way of picking the pots is idealistic but flawed.

Melion

Dave0301 wrote: »

And what is the fairest way to pick the last two spots?

Who goes into pot 2?

When do teams from leagues like France, Scotland, Russia and others get a look in?

Your way of picking the pots is idealistic but flawed.

2nd in the league, into Pot 2 you go, 3rd into pot 3

Obviously it would need work for countries like Scotland etc but i just think it would make for a much better competition over all.

Melion

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

tbf I can kinda see what your getting at and in some ways it would be better, but chances are not much higher and would still need luck of the draw.

Luck of the draw would play a big big part in it.

The_Kew_Tour

Melion wrote: »

Luck of the draw would play a big big part in it.

Actually the more I think about it the more I think you have good idea.

I just think though that it would still have its flaws. It hard to get that balance I guess.

Melion

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Actually the more I think about it the more I think you have good idea.

I just think though that it would still have its flaws. It hard to get that balance I guess.

It definitely has flaws as to where you fit in the likes of Celtic and other countries who only have one representative. UEFA would never go for anything like that though.

IncognitoMan

Your argument was before that man city are a better team than arsenal. Well I would argue that man utd/ barcelona are better than the french and Italian Champions and more deserving of a place in pot 1.

Melion

IncognitoMan wrote: »

Your argument was before that man city are a better team than arsenal. Well I would argue that man utd/ barcelona are better than the french and Italian Champions and more deserving of a place in pot 1.

Tough, United werent better than City last season and Barca werent better than Real.

TripleAce

Hi - would you know where can i find a calendar with all the CL features for this season (including dates)? I can't find one yet....thank you.

Hulk Hands

Melion wrote: »

Spanish Champion
English Champion
German Champion
French Champion
Italian Champion
CL Holder

They should be the first 6 teams in Pot 1

And why should you cut the line at the French league? Why not the Dutch for example?

And the Dutch used to be stronger than the French, and may be stronger sometime in the future. What happens then? Do the Dutch get the French place? Could the French not argue then that they're stronger than the italian, or German leagues.

It's all up in the air with that method. Past European performance is the fairer way

IncognitoMan

Melion wrote: »

Tough, United werent better than City last season and Barca werent better than Real.

Tough, city were not better than any of those teams in pot 1 over the last five years. Its not going to change and it shouldn't

Melion

IncognitoMan wrote: »

Tough, city were not better than any of those teams in pot 1 over the last five years. Its not going to change and it shouldn't

They were better than United, Arsenal and Chelsea over 38 games last season.

Melion

Just looking at the rankings again, its amazing what teams are ranked below Liverpool.

IncognitoMan

Melion wrote: »

They were better than United, Arsenal and Chelsea over 38 games last season.

In the UEFA champions league they have done nothing. They will just have to lump it untill they do. We not going to agree

Tox56

Melion wrote: »

Just looking at the rankings again, its amazing what teams are ranked below Liverpool.

I think you're suggestion that the likes of Montpellier and Ajax should be in Pot 1 whilst Man Utd, Bayern and Barca are put in Pot 2 is far more amazing than where UEFA ranks Liverpool.

Melion

IncognitoMan wrote: »

In the UEFA champions league they have done nothing. They will just have to lump it untill they do. We not going to agree

And either have Arsenal, like i said earlier. First is first, second is nothing. Arsenal have never done anything of note in the competition.

Magill

What a group that is ! Should be interesting to watch at least, hopefully city can step up this year.

Melion

Tox56 wrote: »

I think you're suggestion that the likes of Montpellier and Ajax should be in Pot 1 whilst Man Utd, Bayern and Barca are put in Pot 2 is far more amazing than where UEFA ranks Liverpool.

Why is that amazing? Would make for better groups for people to watch, especially the neutrals. It would make for much tougher groups for a lot of teams. It would mean different teams qualifiying for the latter stages instead of the usual crowd. I fail to see any downfalls to it.

IncognitoMan

Melion wrote: »

And either have Arsenal, like i said earlier. First is first, second is nothing. Arsenal have never done anything of note in the competition.

They have been in the competition every year for the last whatever it is 16 years? nearly always make it to the knock out stages. and have recently been in 1/4 finals, semi finals. That is something done in the competition. City had one group stage

Melion

IncognitoMan wrote: »

They have been in the competition every year for the last whatever it is 16 years? nearly always make it to the knock out stages. and have recently been in 1/4 finals, semi finals. That is something done in the competition. City had one group stage

First is first, second is nothing. They have made 1 final in those 16 years.

Drumpot

Melion wrote: »

Why is that amazing? Would make for better groups for people to watch, especially the neutrals. It would make for much tougher groups for a lot of teams. It would mean different teams qualifiying for the latter stages instead of the usual crowd. I fail to see any downfalls to it.

Then every other rich prince could buy up any club and superroid instant success like theyve done at City and have a team as a top seed in the champions league straight away . . . It actually incentives more rich children to buy expensive toys . .

Drumpot

Melion wrote: »

First is first, second is nothing. They have made 1 final in those 16 years.

They got further then City last year and might very well do so again this year . .

The_Kew_Tour

Melion wrote: »

First is first, second is nothing. They have made 1 final in those 16 years.

tbf I think thats unfair on Arsenal.

although they are possible the biggest club now not to have CL, but they still have done some good things in it.

Tox56

Melion wrote: »

Tox56 wrote: »

I think you're suggestion that the likes of Montpellier and Ajax should be in Pot 1 whilst Man Utd, Bayern and Barca are put in Pot 2 is far more amazing than where UEFA ranks Liverpool.

Why is that amazing? Would make for better groups for people to watch, especially the neutrals. It would make for much tougher groups for a lot of teams. It would mean different teams qualifiying for the latter stages instead of the usual crowd. I fail to see any downfalls to it.

European success has absolutely no bearing in your method for ranking clubs in European competition. I think that's a huge downfall, but if you can't see that then fair enough.