Need some advice on workers rights regarding uniforms

rachael2101

Our restaurant has been taken over by new people recently and they have made some changes to the way the place is run and last week they told us all to change our uniforms from black to white. Today I was told I will be sent home if I dont have a white shirt for my next shift. I dont own a white shirt and with money so tight nowadays I would need more time to work the cost of new shirts into my budget. What are my rights in this situation? What is a reasonable amount of time to expect us all to change our uniform and should I really have to fork out for four new white shirts when its impractical to wear white in our roles anyway and the black uniforms were perfectly acceptable.

Any real info would be appreciated, not looking for opinions of self important people who look down on average minimum wage workers.

Thanks

tatli_lokma

is you rbudget honestly so tight that a €4 shirt from pennys would break the bank? If so, then ask for an advance on your wages purely for the purpose of getting the new uniform and adhering to the new policy. Sorry to be brutal, I do know that times are hard, but to be honest it sounds more like you don't want to change your uniform and are looking for excuses not to. As I said Pennys do white shirts for €4...its not like they are insisting you buy a Henry Jermyn shirt for €200!

On the plus side, you are entitled to an extra tax allowance for "flat rate employment expenses"
http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/employee-expenses.html#section4

rachael2101

Actually my budget is that tight and there are no €4 shirts in penneys! Two weeks before the new owners took over we were not told that anything was happening so I went out and bought some new BLACK shirts. So yes I dont want to change my uniform, plus white ones are not practical as they get stained and need to be replaced a lot more often than black ones. I dont see why they would prefer white shirts!

tatli_lokma

I saw €4 & €7 euro shirts in Penny's last week - the reason I noticed them is because my nephew needs a few white shirts for his job as a lounge boy. They are gents shirts, but come in small to large sizes

Its not really for you to decide if it is practical or not, unfortunately it is up to your employer to dictate what you can/can't wear. You might not see why they prefer it but they do. It could be that black shirts 'hide' the dirt as you say, and in such cases some people tend not to wash them very often. Personally I think a clean white shirt looks much more appealing for people in the food industry than black ones - many black ones I have seen are grubby and faded and don't look very nice. But that is my opinion, you have yours and your employer has theirs.

Other than ask for a reason why from your employer, and politely expressing your concerns and views for consideration, there is not a lot you can do.
As I mentioned, perhaps ask for an advance to help pay for a few shirts. Explain this is the reason for you needing the advance - so you can have the required uniform. Or ask for a few extra shifts maybe to cover the costs

fasttalkerchat

I heard before that if you're on minimum wage and not paying tax, you can't pay for a uniform out of pocket. Couldn't find a relevant law so it may not be true.

tatli_lokma

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

I heard before that if you're on minimum wage and not paying tax, you can't pay for a uniform out of pocket. Couldn't find a relevant law so it may not be true.

I don't think that is true - if it were there would be something in the "flat rate employment expenses" credit to say that people under teh tax threshold were exempt.

OP, if you have worked there in 2011, what about going online, make a claim for the flat rate expense credit for 2011 if you haven't already done so and request a P21. You may well be due a rebate, which in turn could pay for your new uniform. They are usually fairly quick about issuing the payments if you apply online. Last time mine arrived within a week IIRC.

Corruptedmorals

Dunnes sell them for 5 or 6 if you can't find them in Penneys. Can you get a loan of €20 off a friend or something until you get paid and buy a few? I agree white is stupid but you don't have any input here I'm afraid.

tatli_lokma

Corruptedmorals wrote: »

Dunnes sell them for 5 or 6 if you can't find them in Pennys

TBH OP has been given a few solutions...borrow money/ get an advance/ make a revenue rebate claim but I don't really think they want this advice. They wanted someone to tell them the employer can't change the uniform. I don't think its even about the price of shirts...as both you and I pointed out you can get 2 shirts for €10 or less. They just don't want a white shirt in their uniform. If it bothers them so much I'm sure there are plenty of people out there would kill to take their job and would wear a barney the dinosaur uniform if it meant they can earn a few bob.

Mrs OBumble

Little Ted wrote: »

... They just don't want a white shirt in their uniform. If it bothers them so much I'm sure there are plenty of people out there would kill to take their job and would wear a barney the dinosaur uniform if it meant they can earn a few bob.

I think you're right about the OP - but I wonder if they have a point: is it really fair for employees to have to pay for new clothing 100% at an employer's whim? Surely if it's uniform, the employer should be paying? And if it's an impractical colour, the employer should be paying some laundry costs.

And TBH, those E4 shirts from Pennys et al are tacky as heck: no way would I want staff looking like that ...

PickledLime

JustMary wrote: »

I think you're right about the OP - but I wonder if they have a point: is it really fair for employees to have to pay for new clothing 100% at an employer's whim? Surely if it's uniform, the employer should be paying? And if it's an impractical colour, the employer should be paying some laundry costs.

And TBH, those E4 shirts from Pennys et al are tacky as heck: no way would I want staff looking like that ...

I dunno where the law stands, but i recall getting chewed out of it by a former employer because i didn't wear the appropriate uniform 5 days of the week. I told them if they don't want to spring the cash for more than 2 tshirts then i won't be wearing them more than 3 times during the week, as i wasn't scheduling a light laundry load midweek just to clean the tees. Two weeks later i was presented with 3 new tees.

As far as i'm concerned, if they want you to wear something, they have to provided it.

Edit - what does it say in your contract about the uniform?

tatli_lokma

PickledLime wrote: »

As far as i'm concerned, if they want you to wear something, they have to provided it.

I work in an office environment, I am expected to dress appropriately. I wouldn't wear the things I wear in the office in my own downtime. I don't think it is unreasonable for an employer to place sanctions on what is appropriate attire. In the hospitality/food industry it is quite normal for staff to have to buy their own shirt and trousers. If on the other hand the employer said, you must buy this particular shirt from this particular shop at a unrealistic expense, then I would push for them to provide the uniform.

However, if the employer supplies the uniform, you would probably be asked to pay a deposit for them anyway. And if the uniform is supplied, you would miss out on your €64 allowance. Two pairs of trousers and 3 white shirts from Dunnes or Pennys would cost less than €64, so you might be better off buying them yourself.

Mrs OBumble

Little Ted wrote: »

And if the uniform is supplied, you would miss out on your €64 allowance. Two pairs of trousers and 3 white shirts from Dunnes or Pennys would cost less than €64, so you might be better off buying them yourself.

Not true: flat rate allowance is based on negotiated rates between the unions and Revenue, and paid to all workers in particular occupations (provided they notify their occupation to Revenue), irrespective of their uniform status.

Also, there is no way that the clothing from Dunnes / Pennys would stand up to being worn 2-3 times per week and still last for one year. If you buy your own, you'd be paying well more than E64.

PickledLime

Little Ted wrote: »

I work in an office environment, I am expected to dress appropriately. I wouldn't wear the things I wear in the office in my own downtime. I don't think it is unreasonable for an employer to place sanctions on what is appropriate attire. In the hospitality/food industry it is quite normal for staff to have to buy their own shirt and trousers. If on the other hand the employer said, you must buy this particular shirt from this particular shop at a unrealistic expense, then I would push for them to provide the uniform.

However, if the employer supplies the uniform, you would probably be asked to pay a deposit for them anyway. And if the uniform is supplied, you would miss out on your €64 allowance. Two pairs of trousers and 3 white shirts from Dunnes or Pennys would cost less than €64, so you might be better off buying them yourself.

The OP (and fellow staff) are being asked to change their perfectly serviceable uniform for no other reason than the whim of their new employers. OP shouldn't be expected to foot the bill for this.

tatli_lokma

JustMary wrote: »

Not true: flat rate allowance is based on negotiated rates between the unions and Revenue, and paid to all workers in particular occupations (provided they notify their occupation to Revenue), irrespective of their uniform status.

sorry, my mistake. I was confusing the hospitality industry with domestic staff where there are different rates depending on who supplies and launders the unfiom.

PickledLime wrote: »

The OP (and fellow staff) are being asked to change their perfectly serviceable uniform for no other reason than the whim of their new employers. OP shouldn't be expected to foot the bill for this.

why not?

Mrs OBumble

Little Ted wrote: »

sorry, my mistake. I was confusing the hospitality industry with domestic staff where there are different rates depending on who supplies and launders the unfiom.


why not?

Even then, the Revenue staff who apply the allowance often have no way of knowing who launders the uniform. It really is a nonsense of a tax-credit, IMHO.

As to why now - because there's a difference between expected to maintain a general standard of dress, and wearing specific clothing - ie shirt and tie vs white shirt. Especially if the employer can change rules at whim (white shirt today - pink next week, to match the new colour scheme)

Fries-With-That

rachael2101 wrote: »

Our restaurant has been taken over by new people recently and they have made some changes to the way the place is run and last week they told us all to change our uniforms from black to white. Today I was told I will be sent home if I dont have a white shirt for my next shift. I dont own a white shirt and with money so tight nowadays I would need more time to work the cost of new shirts into my budget. What are my rights in this situation? What is a reasonable amount of time to expect us all to change our uniform and should I really have to fork out for four new white shirts when its impractical to wear white in our roles anyway and the black uniforms were perfectly acceptable.

Any real info would be appreciated, not looking for opinions of self important people who look down on average minimum wage workers.

Thanks

Hi Rachel,

You are in a no win situation with your employer, but you may be in a lets compromise situation.

Lets look at the situation from an employers point of view, they have taken over your restaurant. There has to be a reason that your old employer decided to sell or offload the place.

So with that in mind the new owner has decided that the place needs an image makeover, the most visual and least costly change they can make is to change the uniforms of the staff.

You have indicated that they have also made changes to the way the place was run, again there has to be a reason for these changes.

Your uniform (their branding/image) means a lot to your employer, how you look whilst performing your duties is of vital importance to any restaurant.

Its possible in this case that you may be like a new pin when it comes to uniform and appearance but are all staff members as well turned out.

Reading between the lines of your post I get the feeling that its not really just the uniform change that is bothering you.

If you can't afford to buy new white shirts(regardless of how practical you think they are in your workplace) you have only one option that will alert your employer to your situation.

You need to call to see your employer before your next shift is due to start and explain to them that you cannot afford to buy new white shirts.

Explain this in a mature non confrontational fashion and ask if its possible that they give you an advance on your wages to allow you to buy white shirts.
You would also need to explain that your budget is very tight and that they can take the money from your wages over a period of weeks.

It might also be a good idea to indicate to your employer that the shirts available in pennys, dunnes or tescos are of limited quality and tend to get very tatty over a short period of time, ask them are they considering professional white uniform shirts from one of the many catering supply companies.

If I was your employer and you came to me with this scenario I would value your maturity and professionalism and have no problem with advancing your wages at a rate that suited you.

In saying all that I have no idea why some restaurants expect their staff to provide their own uniforms it always leads to a hodge podge of trouser and shirt styles that looks far from professional.

I always provided staff with their shirts, headgear and safety shoes when they commenced employment, their trousers they had to buy themselves from a particular shop that stocked the ones we liked our staff to wear.
I always gave staff an upfront payment to buy 2 pairs of trousers and deducted €3 a week from their wages to pay for same.

Best of luck with your new employer and bear in mind that a new broom usually sweeps clean, whilst an employer will retain staff from a previous owner they may not always like what they see and embark on retraining existing staff to the standards they expect.

Look on this as an exciting new challenge provided by a new employer that has invested in your workplace and may have saved your job.

Regards,

Fries.

tatli_lokma

JustMary wrote: »

Even then, the Revenue staff who apply the allowance often have no way of knowing who launders the uniform. It really is a nonsense of a tax-credit, IMHO.

totally agree

JustMary wrote: »

As to why now - because there's a difference between expected to maintain a general standard of dress, and wearing specific clothing - ie shirt and tie vs white shirt. Especially if the employer can change rules at whim (white shirt today - pink next week, to match the new colour scheme)

but there is nothing in OP's post to indicate this is a 'whim'. A new employer has taken over the business. As Fries-with-That rightly says, it is understandable that a new employer may wish to make changes.

From reading between the lines, my impression is that OP is just digging their heels in with no real reason for it other than they don't want to change. As you, I and others have pointed out, there are several solutions, and if the matter is approached maturely then there is most likely an agreeable solution for all concerned. But OP just doesn't seem to want those answers, they want to be told, no it is illegal, they cannot make you change!
Being obtuse like this is a risky strategy, as Fries-With-That rightly points out

Fries-With-That wrote:

whilst an employer will retain staff from a previous owner they may not always like what they see and embark on retraining existing staff to the standards they expect.