The English Monarchy

robroy1234

The general consensus is that when lizzy starts pushing up daisies Australia, New Zealand and Canada will all become republics, which looking at who is next in line is entirely understandable. And, Britain will have the onerous task of replacing currency, signage, governmental letterheads, stamps etc., with Charlie's mug at the cost to the taxpayer. No wonder Scotland wants independence.,

But, that is Britain's problem and hopefully when Britain leaves the European Union we will no longer have to put up with these annoying complaining neighbours.

ResearchWill

vixdname wrote: »

I just saw on the ticker tape on Skynews tonight that in the last financial year the upkeep of the monarchy has cost the british taxpayer £32.2 million sterling.

With the UK, like ourselves going through its worst financial storm since ww2 is it really worth spending this kind of money on a family that can well afford to support themselves ?

I'd be interested to hear from any english boardsies and of course any irish ones aswell if you have an opinion on this.

The queens income comes from the public purse that is correct. But the public purse gets a huge income from the Crown Estates. George III I think did a deal, whereby Parliement agreed to pay him money to run his household and the public purse got all income from the Crown Estates. Was a great deal for George not such a good deal for Liz as income from crown Estates was £240 million in 2011. The Crown Estates remain in the name of the monarch but can not be sold.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/constructionandproperty/9345354/Record-profits-at-Crown-Estate-boost-Queens-income.html

Richard Hillman

robroy1234 wrote: »

Well Deft - We are all equal in terms of Human Rights, Equality, and all the benefits of a free democratic, egalitarian society. The right to free and proper healthcare and education means that a lowly, culchie like me can work and earn a PhD., whereas the Prince's require teachers to cheat for them and they are given degrees and military ranks without earning them. The class system only benefits those at the top and no one else, and only pathetic sycophants who are deluded that they can "rise beyond their status".
Besides that we are all equal in terms that we will all kick the bucket., however when its my time to spring off this mortal coil at least I won't cost the taxpayers a cent, which I am sure everyone will be grateful for, however when queeny lizzy pops her clogs then the taxpayers have to foot the bill, and we all know the terrible cost the jubilee and the wedding was to the economy.

And the general consensus was that those events were worth it.

DEFTLEFTHAND

wolfpawnat wrote: »

..........they never sought? Until Socialist structures came in such as free education and basic free healthcare, they were NOT ALLOWED above their menial stations. Even today it is clear, people in Medical professions who do not have a daddy or uncle in them before them are looked down upon by their "peers"

I'm in the legal profession, many people rose from nothing and joined us, It's nothing like who your Dad is anymore, take solicitor for instance the profession has been swamped with women in recent times, career girls hungry for the business.

In my fathers time (1970s) that was very rare, they were very conservative and didn't want women gaining influence in the profession at all.

wolfpawnat

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I'm in the legal profession, many people rose from nothing and joined us, It's nothing like who your Dad is anymore, take solicitor for instance the profession has been swamped with women in recent times, career girls hungry for the business.

In my fathers time (1970s) that was very rare, they were very conservative and didn't want women gaining influence in the profession at all.

In medicine it is still "my father is a consultant in X hospital" and in Veterinary it is assumed students come from homes capable of funding cars, insurance and petrol for their children while they are in college.

discus

I think the Windors are great.

O Lord our God arise
Scatter her enemies
And make them fall
Confound their politics
Frustrate their knavish tricks
On Thee our hopes we fix
God save us all

DEFTLEFTHAND

wolfpawnat wrote: »

In medicine it is still "my father is a consultant in X hospital" and in Veterinary it is assumed students come from homes capable of funding cars, insurance and petrol for their children while they are in college.

And plenty of doctors come from working class backgrounds, granted it's probably easier for those from families but it's not a closed shop.

Irish Rail for instance is a closed shop (blue collar jobs), they only hire family members, it's like La Cosa Nostra in Sicily, you have to have connections to join.

wolfpawnat

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

And plenty of doctors come from working class backgrounds, granted it's probably easier for those from families but it's not a closed shop.

Irish Rail for instance is a closed shop (blue collar jobs), they only hire family members, it's like La Cosa Nostra in Sicily, you have to have connections to join.

Finally those courses are becoming more accessible to everyone on paper, but to succeed, you need money in the background from family or the like to afford to live while slaving through those courses. There is no such thing as working weekends with them to keep yourself going.

Saab Ed

The idea, in modern society, that someone can be born into such a position of privilege just by birthright is just bizarre in my opinion.

Financial wealth, respect and positions of authority must be earned not assumed.

discus

Saab Ed wrote: »

The idea, in modern society, that someone can be born into such a position of privilege just by birthright is just bizarre in my opinion.

Financial wealth, respect and positions of authority must be earned not assumed.

I have a MASSIVE problem with that attitude. At some stage in their life, their ancestors had to earn the wealth. They didn't just find it somewhere. If you had accrued a massive amount of power and wealth, would you not pass it down your family through generations as the Royal family have?

Also, it's not as if they don't work - Prince Harry is an Army Officer (it's not an easy job I can tell you) and Prince William is a Search and Rescue Helicopter Pilot. If that's not earning your pay, I don't know what is.

robroy1234

Research - the civil list is a total farce and made up to make out that the royals cost far less than they really are, and in reality the Australians, New Zealanders, Canadians and Brits have no choice in their head of state. The last referendum in Australia was worded so badly that it was a comical to the extreme. I like Saab find it puzzling that in today's world there are still monarchies around, then again the people of those countries have no choice at all in that matter.

discus

Most people support the Monarchy, that's why there's no change.

DEFTLEFTHAND

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Finally those courses are becoming more accessible to everyone on paper, but to succeed, you need money in the background from family or the like to afford to live while slaving through those courses. There is no such thing as working weekends with them to keep yourself going.

Tough sh1t, life isn't fair, if you want something enough you'll get it without the help of Dad and Mum. It builds character in a person imo.

robroy1234

Well Discus - both Harry and Willy jumped the ranks in the military, in some cases like my late father's it took 22 years to get to Sergeant whereas Wills and Harry got to Captain in 22 hours......Harry got a free pass into Sandhurst without having an University degree and Willy was given a degree without presenting any academic material. Yeah I can see where they earned their way up...

wolfpawnat

discus wrote: »

I have a MASSIVE problem with that attitude. At some stage in their life, their ancestors had to earn the wealth. They didn't just find it somewhere. If you had accrued a massive amount of power and wealth, would you not pass it down your family through generations as the Royal family have?

Also, it's not as if they don't work - Prince Harry is an Army Officer (it's not an easy job I can tell you) and Prince William is a Search and Rescue Helicopter Pilot. If that's not earning your pay, I don't know what is.

Those two positions held by those men average at £20,000 a year salaries, those two do not live on that sort of income. Also the money that the British Monarchy accumulated over the centuries were through taxes that they never earned themselves and the taking of gold from churches and monasteries and other resources in the Commonwealth countries.

Also the assumption that Harry and William would ever be in a position where their lives would be truly at risk is laughable. They would never be frontline and their would be many a man and woman sacrificed to keep them safe.

robroy1234

If the British people love the monarchy so much they can pay from them and stop complaining when their economy is in sh*t. Its their fault if they are living beyond their means and its their fault if their government chooses to freely give the royals money and at the same time cut everything else.

Saab Ed

discus wrote: »

I have a MASSIVE problem with that attitude. At some stage in their life, their ancestors had to earn the wealth. They didn't just find it somewhere. If you had accrued a massive amount of power and wealth, would you not pass it down your family through generations as the Royal family have?.

P

If you feel its right to play subordinate to a mere family then you fire ahead. In my mind there's no one more powerful or influential on my life than myself. The idea that (if I lived in the UK). I'd have to get out of the way to let these folk ride roughshod ovdrr me is mental.

I hearby declare myself king of the world, now obey me . Mental!

discus

robroy1234 wrote: »

Well Discus - both Harry and Willy jumped the ranks in the military, in some cases like my late father's it took 22 years to get to Sergeant whereas Wills and Harry got to Captain in 22 hours......Harry got a free pass into Sandhurst without having an University degree and Willy was given a degree without presenting any academic material. Yeah I can see where they earned their way up...

Hahaha, let's take this apart.

Harry got a free pass into Sandhurst without having an University degree

You don't need one to get into Sandhurst. A levels or Leaving Cert will do. Next!

Willy was given a degree without presenting any academic material. Yeah I can see where they earned their way up...

Errr, he learned to fly a helicopter to such an acceptable standard that he does it to save lives. Considering that he hasn't killed himself or his crew, must be testament to the fact that he has obviously trained hard and successfully.

Harry and Willy jumped the ranks in the military, in some cases like my late father's it took 22 years to get to Sergeant

Well, it's a pity you're so ill informed on the career paths within 99% of all armed forces. If you join as an Officer, you can expect to be Captain within 2 years (or sooner) of finishing Sandhurst.

However, if you join as a soldier, you start as a private, followed by corporal and then sergeant. I'm sorry to hear it took your dad 22 years to get there, most make it by 12. Irish (DF) Army I presume?

Two very different career streams, I thought that would be obvious. Much like joining a company as a manager or as a truck driver.

discus

Saab Ed wrote: »

P

If you feel its right to play subordinate to a mere family then you fire ahead. In my mind there's no one more powerful or influential on my life than myself. The idea that (if I lived in the UK). I'd have to get out of the way to let these folk ride roughshod ovdrr me is mental.

Haha, you're quite influential all right! Wether you like it or not, you play subordinate every day of your life. You pay taxes every year, stamp duty on the house you buy, car tax to drive on government roads. You are nothing but a tenant of the business that is Teachta Dail.

wolfpawnat

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Tough sh1t, life isn't fair, if you want something enough you'll get it without the help of Dad and Mum. It builds character in a person imo.

So, it is not as easy as a working class lad getting in to those courses and getting ahead as you claimed, you have just proven the point I was trying to make yourself.

But sure, this isn't about college courses, there are plenty a thread on that. This is about one family being put above the rest of an entire island comprising of three different nations. All because of the great accident of who they were born to. They are just like everyone else, but yet through no grteat feat of their own taking, they are to be held up as better than the rest. Mikey who will be born this summer and will be playing soccer in the street of his counsel estate in seven years time is the same as that child being carried by William's wife in my eyes. The only different is she married a guy born to wealth while Mickey's parents work in Tesco and Sainsbury's. But to many, the birth of William's child is more significant than any other on that island.

robroy1234

Wrong Discus - entry into Sandhurst requires an University Degree and you don't actually believe they would let Willy fly the helicopter by himself? Everyone knows that the British military establishment is well and truly structured on the class system and that the royals jump the system - that's why Eddy is colonel in chief of various regiments and why there was an outcry when one year he led the salute on remembrance sunday - especially when he turned up wearing more medals than anyone else. Why else is Harry called Sicknote...

Play To Kill

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Also the assumption that Harry and William would ever be in a position where their lives would be truly at risk is laughable. They would never be frontline and their would be many a man and woman sacrificed to keep them safe.

robroy1234

So in all - it is the fault of the Brits if they are in the economic mess that they are in and still pay in excess for these leaches. At least we don't have to pay for them....

Saab Ed

discus wrote: »

Haha, you're quite influential all right! Wether you like it or not, you play subordinate every day of your life. You pay taxes every year, stamp duty on the house you buy, car tax to drive on government roads. You are nothing but a tenant of the business that is Teachta Dail.

You think

Anyway they're elected members of government not egotistical inbreds ..... Oh wait, that's not right :-)

robroy1234

Was that when Harry ran and hid when the Taliban attacked and it was stated that they took him to a guarded situation? running and hiding whilst two American soldiers were killed - yes that's very brave....

wolfpawnat

Saab Ed wrote: »

If you feel its right to play subordinate to a mere family then you fire ahead. In my mind there's no one more powerful or influential on my life than myself. The idea that (if I lived in the UK). I'd have to get out of the way to let these folk ride roughshod ovdrr me is mental.

This I don't get. I am as much a human as them, but if I were to meet them (and I am sure they are lovely people and all, I don't know anything to the contrary as I have never met them) I would be expected to curtsy and wait for them to extend their hand to me and be grateful to be in their presence. F that. I got where I am, which isn't far, but I got here, by myself. I don't expect anything for nothing off anyone. I am not below them and they most certainly are not below me, they go for a shíte like the rest of us and they were all born kicking and screaming into this life like the rest of us, so why are they seen as above any of the rest of us? I say that about the British royals, the Danish, the Dutch all of them!

discus

robroy1234 wrote: »

Wrong Discus - entry into Sandhurst requires an University Degree and you don't actually believe they would let Willy fly the helicopter by himself? Everyone knows that the British military establishment is well and truly structured on the class system and that the royals jump the system - that's why Eddy is colonel in chief of various regiments and why there was an outcry when one year he led the salute on remembrance sunday - especially when he turned up wearing more medals than anyone else. Why else is Harry called Sicknote...

Never heard Harry being called sicknot tbh.

From the Sandhurst website:

The days of Sandhurst being full of cadets educated at private schools have passed and now more than 50% of cadets come from state-funded education, with around 90% holding university degrees

Of the 6 Officers I shared a room with last year (I'm not an officer) 1 played poker as a job before he joined, another worked for the nhs in audiology, another was a uni student, 1 was a total uni hippie, another was a film studies student and the last one was a builder!!

Not what you want to hear, is it? So 4 had degrees, 2 didn't.

I know a few Irish lads who went straight to Sandhurst from the LC.

robroy1234

Well I wouldn't bow or be subordinate to them. They are no more special than anyone else, even if they give themselves titles, and ranks they are really just a bunch of inbred twits....they would be more entertaining and were excellent fodder for Spitting Image, but they do cost the Brits a hefty tax bill......

robroy1234

Harry was called Sicknote throughout Sandhurst due to the amount of time he was absent from training and exercises. Very much like his jaunts in Las Vegas...urm I mean Afghanistan....

discus

robroy1234 wrote: »

Was that when Harry ran and hid when the Taliban attacked and it was stated that they took him to a guarded situation? running and hiding whilst two American soldiers were killed - yes that's very brave....

HAHA Yeah, that's how we're trained!!! INCOMING FIRE, QUICKLY, EVERYBODY DON'T TAKE COVER! :rolleyes:

To be honest, there are riflemen for a reason. If he's cutting about the base with a pistol (which is standard pilot personal weapon), I don't expect him to start engaging enemy who have rifles, mortars and RPGs.

sam34

wolfpawnat wrote: »

In medicine it is still "my father is a consultant in X hospital"

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Finally those courses are becoming more accessible to everyone on paper, but to succeed, you need money in the background from family or the like to afford to live while slaving through those courses. There is no such thing as working weekends with them to keep yourself going.

that's a bit of a generalisation. I'm a doctor, the first in my family on either side, my father worked all his life as a tradesman. there were certainly some people in my class in clever who had a parent a consultant but they were the minority.


most of those in my class were from regular, not overly privileged, backgrounds and most worked or took out student loans or did both to survive college.

it's very possible to do a course like medicine whilst also working part-time.

wolfpawnat

Play To Kill wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vbLLHL6fbk

A documentary, by the BBC, a British broadcaster..... They wouldn't of course have an agenda would they? Perhaps propaganda for their unpopular war or anything like that?

discus

robroy1234 wrote: »

Harry was called Sicknote throughout Sandhurst due to the amount of time he was absent from training and exercises. Very much like his jaunts in Las Vegas...urm I mean Afghanistan....

Ah, roight now I get ya. Anyone who goes sick is called biffchit or sicknote. Banter and all that. You wouldn't know, and obviously your dad didn't pass squaddie banter down to you.

wolfpawnat

sam34 wrote: »

that's a bit of a generalisation. I'm a doctor, the first in my family on either side, my father worked all his life as a tradesman. there were certainly some people in my class in clever who had a parent a consultant but they were the minority.


most of those in my class were from regular, not overly privileged, backgrounds and most worked or took out student loans or did both to survive college.

it's very possible to do a course like medicine whilst also working part-time.

I never said all, but there are a few and you would know that yourself. My partner was in the course, came out to do veterinary. The most of his class were from better off backgrounds and the only ones with jobs were writing for their columns in the Irish Times (yes, no joke) and a guy working weekends that had to give it up as soon as they got into the biochemistry and pharmacology which you know yourself is extensive study.

discus

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Those two positions held by those men average at £20,000 a year salaries, those two do not live on that sort of income. Also the money that the British Monarchy accumulated over the centuries were through taxes that they never earned themselves and the taking of gold from churches and monasteries and other resources in the Commonwealth countries.

Also the assumption that Harry and William would ever be in a position where their lives would be truly at risk is laughable. They would never be frontline and their would be many a man and woman sacrificed to keep them safe.

Flying a helicopter is risky, let alone as a SAR pilot.

Oh, and everyone is for plundering the Roman Catholic Church in Ireland, why is not acceptable for them to have done it in the past?

ResearchWill

robroy1234 wrote: »

Wrong Discus - entry into Sandhurst requires an University Degree and you don't actually believe they would let Willy fly the helicopter by himself? Everyone knows that the British military establishment is well and truly structured on the class system and that the royals jump the system - that's why Eddy is colonel in chief of various regiments and why there was an outcry when one year he led the salute on remembrance sunday - especially when he turned up wearing more medals than anyone else. Why else is Harry called Sicknote...

"More than 80% of Officer Cadets are university graduates, but some arrive with A-Levels or equivalent. Others are serving soldiers who have been selected for Officer training and some come from overseas, having been chosen by their own armies to train at the world famous Academy. It is not possible for anyone to undertake training at their own private expense."
From

http://www.army.mod.uk/training_education/training/17057.aspx

wolfpawnat

discus wrote: »

Oh, and everyone is for plundering the Roman Catholic Church in Ireland, why is not acceptable for them to have done it in the past?

How do you mean? That does not make much sense as is.

Saab Ed

wolfpawnat wrote: »

How do you mean? That does not make much sense as is.

I think he sees everyone being dominated by something. He doesn't understand that you can be the top of your own tree.

kowloon

I'm not sure if it has come into the argument yet, but the royal family have ceremonial roles in the Army that are separate from any actual job they might have in the armed forces, if they have one at all.

Prince William is the Colonel of The Irish Guards, even though he actually serves as a chopper pilot as a Lieutentant (or Captain?). Their regimental system is messed up looking to the outsider, even if it's been reduced to a few super regiments. So, I don't think it's fair to have a go at the military side of things until you know a bit more about the system. You can, however, land yourself in a regiment before you go through any training and this can make your results a lot less important.

On the tourism argument: Versailles brings in more tourists than all the British royal sites combined and the French left their royals without heads quite a while ago. The family themselves aren't important, it's not like the tourists go for tea with the Queen. But you can argue that the people themselves are the adverts for the sites.

Philip makes the news more fun.

discus

Saab Ed wrote: »

I think he sees everyone being dominated by something. He doesn't understand that you can be the top of your own tree.

Tell yourself what you want

Saab Ed

discus wrote: »

Tell yourself what you want

Its a monarchy ffs, they're nothing. They have no hold or command over what you do what so ever. The fact that you kneel and kowtow to them is pathetic. You are a submissive human being. What a terribly sad way to live. Generations after generations of your family have clearly become subservient. Your mind needs to be controlled because after years of believing you're being dominated, you now struggle to see clarity for yourself. You're a serf I'm afraid to say.

discus

Saab Ed wrote: »

Its a monarchy ffs, they're nothing. They have no hold or command over what you do what so ever. The fact that you kneel and kowtow to them is pathetic. You are a submissive human being. What a terribly sad way to live. Generations after generations of your family have clearly become subservient. Your mind needs to be controlled because after years of believing you're being dominated, you now struggle to see clarity for yourself. You're a serf I'm afraid to say.

I'm just as subservient as you are. Maybe I'm slightly fatalistic about it though.

Think of the bosses who employ you. Making money from your labour. Think of the politicians, who take a cut of that pay too. And what about VAT? You want to buy something in the shops, you have to pay for the priveledge of buying something!

Thats ok though! Sure, after all, when you drive back from the shop, you're in the car that is powered by petrol. Not only do you pay taxes on that, you're at the whim of some Middle Eastern Royalty who might one day decide to cut off petrol sales to our country. They hold us to ransom every now and again, by raising prices or cutting shipments, just to remind us who holds the power.

Top of your tree? Not unless you're Ray Mears, mate.

Saab Ed

You've missed the point. Governments, taxes, laws. They're all decesions of elected representitives. Deciding to pay homage to another human being for nothing more than their hereditary title is moronic. Its as stupid as worshiping a mouse.

discus

Saab Ed wrote: »

You've missed the point. Governments, taxes, laws. They're all decesions of elected representitives. Deciding to pay homage to another human being for nothing more than their hereditary title is moronic. Its as stupid as worshiping a mouse.

What can I say, the Royal Family must be doing something right if people still support them!

Where can I worship a mouse plz?

bhamsteve

I despise everything they stand for. The behavior of the nobility in Britain over it's history has been disgusting and they can go and feck off back to Germany or wherever it was they came from.

http://www.republic.org.uk/

Happyman42

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I'm in the legal profession, many people rose from nothing and joined us, It's nothing like who your Dad is anymore, take solicitor for instance the profession has been swamped with women in recent times, career girls hungry for the business.

In my fathers time (1970s) that was very rare, they were very conservative and didn't want women gaining influence in the profession at all.

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Tough sh1t, life isn't fair, if you want something enough you'll get it without the help of Dad and Mum. It builds character in a person imo.

You're right, if there wasn't a class system and a monarchy then professions like the law would have nothing to fawn over and no ass to kiss. If it wasn't for the lower orders 'taking stuff' they'd have nothing to prey on either.

discus

bhamsteve wrote: »

I despise everything they stand for. The behavior of the nobility in Britain over it's history has been disgusting and they can go and feck off back to Germany or wherever it was they came from.

http://www.republic.org.uk/

Tell me, do you reside in Britain?

bhamsteve

discus wrote: »

Tell me, do you reside in Britain?

I'm English, lived in Ireland the past 7 years, why?

discus

Just wondering. I can give your opinion a bit more creedance since you've actually lived there.

Saab Ed

[quote="discus;84367277

Where can I worship a mouse plz?[/quote]

The same place you worship other Human beings that sh!t and piss just like us ....

Your head.