PILOT TRAINING COLLEGE(PTC) GOING OUT OF BUSINESS

Keepon

LeftBase wrote: »

The IAA would have been accusing the FAA inspectors of negligence and that would have been a can of worm right there.

I find it extremely hard to believe that the IAA would tolerate and supervise "lax" training standards for fear of upsetting another regulator. But I'm not in aviation, so maybe you know better.

LeftBase wrote: »

My personal viewpoint is that no amount of beefed up law etc can protect someone who would give 80k to people without doing a blind bit of research.

It's working quite well in jurisdictions that have introduced mandatory insurance funds for that very purpose, due mainly to the failure of flight training companies. Just as exists in the travel industry already in Ireland. To leave consumer protection to searching on Google is by no means sufficient.

It's not just students who are owed money - there are airlines, service providers, other creditors. They are all deserving of better protection than relying purely on search engines and forums.

LeftBase

Keepon wrote: »

I find it extremely hard to believe that the IAA would tolerate and supervise "lax" training standards for fear of upsetting another regulator. But I'm not in aviation, so maybe you know better.

If you pass a JAA flight test that's all the IAA care about. The Airlines sort the men from the boys after that.
It is the FAA who oversea US airspace. Their more flexible boundaries are in part what attract a lot of schools.

bluecode

LeftBase wrote: »

However for the IAA to step in would have been a big thing as the training was taking place in the states where FAA standards are a little more.."lax" than they would be here. The IAA would have been accusing the FAA inspectors of negligence and that would have been a can of worm right there.

Have you trained in the US? Suggesting FAA standards are in any way lax is way over the top. Many tens of thousands of pilots worldwide have been trained in the USA. If anything FAA flight tests are more rigorous than over here. But in any case if there was a doubt about training standards. The IAA would be well within their rights to point it out as the PTC students were training under JARs not the FARs.

But in reality training standards were not the issue with PTC. They produced decent pilots just like any other school. After all if the associate airlines were being supplied with sub standard pilots. They would quickly terminate their arrangement.

Their problem was the way they marketed themselves as the Pilot Training College with all that implies. They had a pilot aptitude test which they hyped leading the unitiated to believe that their whole career hung on whether or not they passed it. In reality almost everyone passed. But the impression given was that this qualified you to begin pilot training with the 'college'. Add to that their misrepresentation of the flight training as an 'airline pilot courses', as an integrated course when it wasn't. The use of uniforms etc. All of this was designed to give the impression that this was a superior course, as were the students. Others have commented on the attitude of some PTC students. This was a product of the marketing hype.

The reality was that PTC were no better than worse than any comparable flight school.

As for Keepon's points. Mandatory insurance is a non runner in Ireland. There are only two CPL flight schools left in Ireland now with PTC's demise. Even with PTC in place it's unrealistic. Any insurance would have to be borne by the student's themselves. Another expense piled on an expensive training course. There is no comparison to other countries with multiple flight schools or the travel industry in Ireland. It's not going to happen.

As for the IAA's responsibilities, I think there's a misunderstanding here. The IAA is there to enforce aviation standards. It's really outside their remit to be enforcing corporate and business practices. They can have their opinion like anyone else. But their main job is to ensure that minimum standards are mets in terms of training, maintenance, employees etc are met.

The company I work for are regularly audited by the IAA. There's always something than can be modified or improved. But they are absolutely not interested in the financial viability of the company. If they tried they would be politely shown the door.

I simply do not think the IAA or government,ie: taxpayers have any responsibility to recompense the former PTC students. Only one taxpayer funded my training and that was me. I for one am reluctant to fund anyone else.

tippilot

Leftbase,

I dont think you understand the concept of undergoing a JAA course in the US.

The school must be JAA approved, the examiners must be JAA examiners. When I did my CPL skills test in Florida it was with a CAA examiner. I had undergone training to the JAA syllabus.

The only non JAA aspect of flight training in the US is the price. Cheaper fuel means cheaper per hour than in Ireland or elsewhere in Europe. It is not for the weather or the suntan that people go to America. It's exactly the same training, only cheaper per hour.

There are those who go to America and undergo an FAA course and then do conversions when they come back, but it's not the same thing. You need to differentiate between the two routes. It is obvious from the above and in other threads that it is a concept you do not grasp.

The problems with PTC were not regulation, rather more creating an illusion without foundation and believing their own hype. It is hard to have sympathy with those who handed over money without research and then demanded reimbursement from the Irish taxpayer. I have met no former PTC student with anything good to say about the place.

An acquaintance, on the morning of his PPL skills test(in Waterford at the time) was sitting in an aircraft doing some touch drills. He asked for clarification on a procedure from a passing instructor and was shocked to subsequently receive a bill for groundschool for same. He wouldnt reccommend the place to his worst enemy.

There is a multitude of anecdotal evidence to support a similar point of view.

Their graduation "ceremonies". Pilot aptitude tests(if you had the money you passed). Students wearing 3 stripes.The marketing budget and magazine adverts. The place reeked of bull**** and hype. If people chose to beleive that rather than engage in some proper research and part with €80,0000 then it's hard to empathise.

All the while, two other less glamorous non bull**** schools continue to churn out high quality students.

erazer

Word has it that a new company Clear Skys Training has been set up by edgeworth in Waterford Airport in place of the liquidated PTC...

LeftBase

erazer wrote: »

Word has it that a new company Clear Skys Training has been set up by edgeworth in Waterford Airport in place of the liquidated PTC...

Gotta admire the guy's balls.......

Anyone who attends should be officially classed mentally retarded and given a special parking space......

donkey balls

Who in their right mind would work for someone like edgeworth after all the crap that has happened and what fool would part with their hard earned cash:eek: And if it was true about him setting up a new FTO I'm sure a few questions would have to be answered by the IAA for the reasons in given the company a licence.

Su Campu

erazer wrote: »

Word has it that a new company Clear Skys Training has been set up by edgeworth in Waterford Airport in place of the liquidated PTC...

Is the mis-spelling of Skies just a typo on your part or is that really what he's called it? Wouldn't surprise me one bit. :rolleyes:

erazer

From www.cro.ie

Details

Type Company
Number 518376
Name CLEARSKY PILOT TRAINING COLLEGE LIMITED
Address BOEING AVENUE, AIRPORT BUSINESS PARK
KILLOWEN
CO. WATERFORD
Registered 03/10/2012
Status Normal

Effective date: 03/10/2012
Last AR Date Not Available
Next AR Date 03/04/2013
Last Accounts to Date Not Available

dukedalton

erazer wrote: »

From www.cro.ie

Details

Type Company
Number 518376
Name CLEARSKY PILOT TRAINING COLLEGE LIMITED
Address BOEING AVENUE, AIRPORT BUSINESS PARK
KILLOWEN
CO. WATERFORD
Registered 03/10/2012
Status Normal

Effective date: 03/10/2012
Last AR Date Not Available
Next AR Date 03/04/2013
Last Accounts to Date Not Available

Just out of interest, who came up with the name "Boeing Avenue"?

LeftBase

dukedalton wrote: »

Just out of interest, who came up with the name "Boeing Avenue"?

It is the Airport industrial estate beside Waterford Airport. It's a little bit of a Celtic Tiger venture and was a ghost town last time I was there. But all the roads in the estate have aircraft names like Boeing, Airbus etc

bombs away

How is a person like that allowed set up another enterprise, surely with his reputation he should be banned from setting up any business for life

LeftBase

bombs away wrote: »

How is a person like that allowed set up another enterprise, surely with his reputation he should be banned from setting up any business for life

Is there not a law that bars people or can bar people from being a company director if they go hopelessly bankrupt and screw a whole load of people?

If I had little sympathy for the PTC students, I will not have 1 iota of sympathy for anyone who ends up on the wrong end of this new venture. They could perhaps be given some sort of living Darwin award!

edgeworthless

More stupidity by stupid people. Anyone foolish enough to part with money to Edgeworthless for the third, yes the third time deserves what they get. A fake college run by a fake captain.
Rest assured that the name and reputation of this new organisation is already on its way to ALL the operators and Airlines throughout the world.:D

Good luck to one man and his dog(or is that Bitch)

LeftBase

edgeworthless wrote: »

More stupidity by stupid people. Anyone foolish enough to part with money to Edgeworthless for the third, yes the third time deserves what they get. A fake college run by a fake captain.
Rest assured that the name and reputation of this new organisation is already on its way to ALL the operators and Airlines throughout the world.:D

Good luck to one man and his dog(or is that Bitch)

In fairness I know plenty of people with the exact same attitude last year.....yet all these poor "victims" ignored what they were told. My opinion of edgeworth cannot get worse than it was this time last year....because it was at rock bottom then!

erazer

Public Information:

From Whois.com - Domain Names & Identity for Everyone

Clearsky Pilot Training

Registrant:
Pilot Training College
Mike Edgeworth (diarmuid.maher@clearskypilottraining.com)
Pilot Trianing College
Waterford Airport
Co. Waterford,0000
IE
Tel. +353.051876706

Creation Date: 27-Sep-2012
Expiration Date: 27-Sep-2013

Domain servers in listed order:
ns1.webhostingireland.ie
ns2.webhostingireland.ie
ns3.webhostingireland.ie


Administrative Contact:
Pilot Training College
Mike Edgeworth (diarmuid.maher@clearskypilottraining.com)
Pilot Trianing College
Waterford Airport
Co. Waterford,0000
IE
Tel. +353.051876706

Technical Contact:
Pilot Training College
Mike Edgeworth (diarmuid.maher@clearskypilottraining.com)
Pilot Trianing College
Waterford Airport
Co. Waterford,0000
IE
Tel. +353.051876706

Billing Contact:
Pilot Training College
Mike Edgeworth (diarmuid.maher@clearskypilottraining.com)
Pilot Trianing College
Waterford Airport
Co. Waterford,0000
IE
Tel. +353.051876706

Status:ACTIVE

Mike Edgeworth :mad:
Diarmuid Maher :mad:

Pilot Training College

Fraud :cool:

Rolls Rotax

Pilot Training College

Seanad Éireann Debate



An Cathaoirleach: I welcome the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Varadkar, to the House.

Senator Denis O'Donovan: I welcome the Minister and thank him for taking this debate. In or around 1 July, I was contacted by a distraught mother who had paid approximately €85,000 to have her son trained as an airline pilot. She borrowed some of that money and remortgaged a property, a story that is typical of many of the students caught in this situation. How much money has been lost by the students in total? The figure I have been given is between €5 million and €10 million. Why did the Pilot Training College, PTC, in Waterford accept money from unsuspecting students when there apparently were concerns about the company's viability as long ago as the end of 2011? That an organisation accredited by the Irish Aviation Authority, IAA, took substantial sums of money in such a situation is a serious issue.

What investigation has the Department carried out to date, if any? What investigation has the IAA conducted? Is the Minister in a position to ensure the trainee pilots, some of whom have only received part of their training, will have their training completed by another accredited college? Is the Director of Corporate Enforcement inquiring into this debacle? If not, why not? Did an auditor for the IAA or the PTC raise questions about the company's viability more than 12 months ago?

A further issue has come to my attention. I will not be disparaging towards the directors or others involved, but some students e-mailed me. Has another company set up shop in recent days in the premises owned and operated by the PTC since that company's liquidation? If so, are any of the old company's directors involved with the new one? They may not be.

During my probing of the issue, I learned that the training institute in Florida was owed approximately €1.4 million by the PTC. What became of that money? The PTC extracted substantial sums from many young people, primarily boys but also some girls, so that they might be trained as pilots. Something is rotten. I felt for the mother who approached me at a wedding. I knew her to see her. She explained her extreme plight. That was early in the situation when the trainees were still in Florida. The Minister assisted in getting them home, but a cost of $500 or $600 per student to bring them back from America is small change compared with the substantial sums they have lost.

I am deeply concerned by a number of the issues that have arisen. I do not know whether the situation is as serious as I have been led to believe by some of the students and their families, who are scattered throughout Ireland. Would it be appropriate to notify the Garda of what the company was doing? The issue has come to light again. In the past week to ten days, the High Court appointed a liquidator to PTC. During the summer, there was some hope for a plan to save the company and complete the trainees' training.
[Senator Denis O'Donovan: ] These people have been wronged and the State owes them a duty. I hope the Minister will be able to answer some of these questions or give some good news about the Department guaranteeing the completion of the training for these pilots.

Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport (Deputy Leo Varadkar): I thank the Senator for raising this important issue. The position which has arisen is most regrettable and came about from the failure of the Pilot Training College, PTC, a privately-owned and operated flight training school, to meet its contractual obligations to its students in the completion of their training in Florida. I fully understand the frustration felt by the students involved and their families and I expressed my sympathy when I met some of their representatives on 20 July last. Unfortunately in the current economic climate, many businesses have failed, leaving their suppliers, etc., out of pocket, including businesses where a State body has a regulatory role.

It is important that the role of the Irish Aviation Authority, IAA, with regard to flight training organisations is properly understood. The IAA has responsibility for approving and overseeing flight training organisations in Ireland and the primary functions in this regard are the oversight of the safety, quality and standard of the training being delivered, the conduct of examinations and flight tests. It considers whether the company has sufficient resources to safely provide the training required to the internationally-determined standards but has no involvement in, or responsibility for, the contractual arrangements between PTC and its students. The IAA's role in the approval and oversight of flight training organisations is based on European rules and, unfortunately, PTC is not an isolated example, as there have been other similar failures in other countries in the recent past, with students suffering losses also.

As part of its regulatory role, the IAA completed audits on PTC in May 2011 and April 2012 and on PTC Florida in April 2011 and in October 2011. The IAA also made site visits in the first quarter of 2012 and in June 2012. During these various inspections it was clear that PTC complied with all EU and international requirements as a flight training organisation and there was no indication of any deficiencies. PTC's accounts were signed off by professional auditors and were not qualified in any way.

EU and international requirements state clearly that the financial evaluation carried out as part of the approval and oversight process is not intended to be a consumer protection provision. However, the IAA has tried to offer assistance to affected students where possible. On 26 June, when the IAA was notified that PTC were ceasing all training activities, it immediately despatched a representative to Florida to secure the records of all students, and all training carried out to date was credited towards the students' final qualifications where possible. The IAA has also worked with other flight schools to explore how students might complete their training elsewhere at as reasonable a cost as possible.

I am advised by the IAA that some 79 students have opted to continue their training with other approved Irish flight training organisations, 20 of whom are self-funded students. There are a further 19 self-funded students who have remained in Florida to pursue their training under the US system, with another 24 who have not decided on their future career. As a gesture of goodwill and without prejudice, the IAA funded the costs of students who wished to return to Ireland and 65 students availed of this offer.

On 26 July the High Court appointed an examiner to PTC Ireland. The IAA worked with the examiner to assess the options available but unfortunately two weeks ago the examiner advised the court that a potential investor had withdrawn and it ordered the liquidation of PTC. Whereas I and my Government colleagues sympathise with the plight of the students and their families who have suffered considerable financial losses through the collapse of this company, neither the Government nor the IAA accepts any liability in this regard. The Irish taxpayer cannot be liable for a company's debts just because it had an approval of some form from a State agency.

The Senator asks about reports that a new company has been established at the same address as PTC. I understand that a company, Clearsky Pilot Training College Limited, has been registered at that address. The IAA has not received any application for approval from the company involved. However, following these reports, last Thursday, 4 October, the IAA inspected the premises of the company in question and found that the company is providing refresher training for an international non-EU client. That training does not meet the standard required for an Irish or EU pilot's licence. Should this new entity wish to provide training meeting stringent EU standards, like any other company it will have to apply to the IAA for approval.

While the Companies Acts do not come within my remit, I am advised that a registered company is a legal entity separate from its owners, shareholders and directors. The owners of a limited liability company are liable only for the amount of money that they have invested in the company and are not liable for the entire debts of the company. PTC was such a limited liability company. Distressing as it may be for all creditors of PTC, whether students or firms, under the Companies Act, if a person is the owner or director of a company that is put into liquidation, the directors and owners are legally entitled to establish or continue to be involved with another company and the debts of the first company do not transfer with the owners or directors to the new company. Creditors of the failed private entity should pursue the recovery of their debts with the liquidator if possible. As I have said already, neither the Government nor the IAA accept any liability for a private company's debts. Nevertheless, I acknowledge the Senator's comments that the students and their families have been wronged. They have been wronged by the company involved and not the Irish taxpayer.

I cannot provide a figure on how much has been lost but it will amount to several million euro. It is important to bear in mind that this does not just affect the young guy down the road or his mother but other parties are also involved, such as foreign airlines, a business in Florida and many other creditors. It would not be possible for the Government to compensate some creditors because we have sympathy, but not compensate all creditors. That would run into many millions of euro, including payments to foreign colleges, students and airlines.

I cannot answer the question of why the company accepted money up to the point that it ceased trading but unfortunately it is not uncommon for a business to continue to operate until the day it ceases trading. I do not know if the Director of Corporate Enforcement or the Garda are involved in this case and I cannot speak for them. I hope they will take an interest in the case and if there is a case to be answered in terms of company law or any other matter.

Senator Denis O'Donovan: I thank the Minister for being so frank. I am disappointed as I feel much concern for the students who have been wronged and there has been much light touch regulation from the IAA. Perhaps we could examine that in future. The IAA experienced a company getting into difficulty in the not too distant past, although it may have been before the current Minister took office. I am a solicitor by profession and it is my opinion that if a person or company takes in substantial sums of money up-front knowing that commitments cannot be fulfilled, it is bordering on criminal. The company sent these students to Florida knowing that fact, which is reckless trading. There should be some mechanism to punish such companies as we are talking about unsuspecting young people and their families. Some of these people put their life savings into the training scheme but the company was accepting this money up to the difficulties arising on 1 July. Somebody in the company knew damn well that within weeks it would be in a trading position where it would not be possible to survive.

The Minister should have another look at the matter because it will not go away. The liquidator will probably not even consider the people who have been wronged as priority debtors. These students should receive greater attention from the State as we sent them to be trained. The light touch regulation of the IAA must be tightened, and it is a bit like the banking regulation in the past, which had terrible consequences for the country. I respect the Minister in coming here to take this matter and I understand his plight.

Deputy Leo Varadkar: I absolutely share the Senator's feelings in this regard. Some of my own constituents are in the same position as the people he describes. We have a shared experience of the feelings of the people who have been wronged. If there was reckless trading in the case, it is a matter for other authorities and the Senator makes a valid point in that regard.

There was a failure of another training college but that was more than 20 years ago. At a policy level we are considering the introduction of a bonding system where if this happens again, at least the customers and trainees would be protected. I do not accept that the IAA has been involved in light touch regulation and it is important to ponder the point. If the IAA had discovered that the company was in trouble financially, what could it have done?

[Deputy Leo Varadkar: ] All it could have done was close the company and told it that it could no longer trade and the people affected would be in exactly the same position they are in now except perhaps for the one or two who may have paid full fees in the past week or two. When it comes to bodies that are licensed, regulated or approved by a Government body, we should bear in mind that all the airlines are licensed or approved by government. Radio stations, all our public and private bus companies, hauliers, driving schools, private colleges and other institutions are all in some way regulated, licensed or approved by government. It would be very reckless of me as a Minister to put the Irish taxpayer on the hook for the failure of companies such as those.

END

Clearsky Pilot Training

Company Registration Office

Details


Name CLEARSKY PILOT TRAINING COLLEGE LIMITED
Type Company
Number 518376
Address BOEING AVENUE,
AIRPORT BUSINESS PARK
KILLOWEN
CO. WATERFORD
Registered 03/10/2012

Latest Financial Reports and Company Information for CLEARSKY PILOT TRAINING COLLEGE

www.clearskypilottraining.com

Domain Name: CLEARSKYPILOTTRAINING.COM

Registrant:

Pilot Training College
Mike Edgeworth (diarmuid.maher@clearskypilottraining.com)
Pilot Trianing College
Waterford Airport
Co. Waterford,0000
IE
Tel. +353.051876706

LeftBase

The above again shows the ugly face of "the state should pay for our onward training". This I feel is a subject they will not drop and will push for the govt to "bail them out".

I dont know about the rest of you but when I started on the rocky road I looked into possible govt grants for training and was laughed out the door. Should the govt give them any financial assistance(which they won't) I would sue the govt for my own training costs!

I wont say I made all the smart decisions when picking my FTO, but I did some research at least and was not dragged in to any of them with the glitzy rhetoric etc. I'm still bleeding money out of everywhere to repay loans etc atm. Due care and attention would have steered many of the these students clear of PTC, but it didn't.

donkey balls

If the IAA did guarantee the students to finish there training ,it would open up a can of worms in that other parties/companies that also lost out due to the PTC closure could take a case aagainst the govt .
As for the new scheme training foreign pilot's which I presume is FAA how many lads in Europe fly on a US licence

de biz

One of the students told his story on TV3 Morning show.

Hope things work out for him.

http://www.tv3.ie/3player/show/155/54410/1/The-Morning-Show

LeftBase

de biz wrote: »

One of the students told his story on TV3 Morning show.

Hope things work out for him.

http://www.tv3.ie/3player/show/155/54410/1/The-Morning-Show

I'm sorry with this guy is a ****wit full stop. He makes several statements that display he STILL has no idea what is actually going on with PTC and then displays a total LACK of knowledge as to how aviation works.

He says that nobody suggested PTC were in financial difficulty.....perhaps only the entire Irish aviation community wasn't enough for them......

EVERYONE would have told them their money was not secure!!

The IAA regulate safety and standards primarily and audit financially yes....however it is the responsibility of ANYONE who hands over 85k for ANYTHING to do extensive research on who they are giving it to! A simple google search would tell them all they need to know.

He then says that PTC were one of the most famous schools in Europe.....yes they were...but not for the reason they told gullible students!

Su Campu

I ask you, with the level of intelligence exhibited by some of these guys, would you want any of them up the pointy end of your plane if anything went wrong?

IngazZagni

LeftBase wrote: »

I'm sorry with this guy is a ****wit full stop. He makes several statements that display he STILL has no idea what is actually going on with PTC and then displays a total LACK of knowledge as to how aviation works.

He says that nobody suggested PTC were in financial difficulty.....perhaps only the entire Irish aviation community wasn't enough for them......

EVERYONE would have told them their money was not secure!!

The IAA regulate safety and standards primarily and audit financially yes....however it is the responsibility of ANYONE who hands over 85k for ANYTHING to do extensive research on who they are giving it to! A simple google search would tell them all they need to know.

He then says that PTC were one of the most famous schools in Europe.....yes they were...but not for the reason they told gullible students!

Relax Leftbase. No need for the attitude.

Sure people have made their points very clear but there is a lot of "hindsight" views here. I never took sides in this debate. Both sides have points.

If "everyone" could tell them that their money was not safe with PTC then why were there 100+ and growing students there? Because that wasn't the general concesous. I've read many posts about PTC back when it was running and it was more 50-50 positive/negative than you think. I don't ever remember people on here or other forums questioning whether your money was safe with them, just that you could be paying too much for what you get. It was only in the latter days that the general concesous became more negative and a bigger spotlight was put on them.

There are many people who finished with PTC between 2008 and 2011 that had positive experiences. Okay they mightn't have all had great reviews but very few would've said do not go to this training provider.

As for this supposed new startup company. Anybody joining a company with Edgworth in its staffing ranks now would not get any support from me.

bluecode

IngazZagni, I refer you to this thread in PPRuNe back in 2009:

http://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/357798-ptc-trouble.html

The writing was on the wall there for anyone to see.

The guy on TV came across as terribly naive and I agree with Leftbase, even if he's a bit harsh. He still doesn't seem to have a clue how aviation works. But to be fair that's exactly the type PTC marketed too.

There is less hindsight here than 'I told you so'. If you read PPRuNe or this forum or a number of others. You would have found out that PTC were overpriced, they were misleading in their marketing. The claimed their modular course was an integrated airline pilot course. They were in financial trouble in 2009 that was well recorded.

But overall the biggest advice anyone would get is 'Don't pay upfront'.

But they fell for the hype and went to one of the 'best known flying schools in Europe.' But like all Ponsi schemes it had to collapse and those guys were the unlucky ones.

Now they think the IAA should bail them out. Well the only people who bailed out in this country are reckless gambling bond holders. Hopefully most of the students there have learned their lesson and are moving on.

I note the guy on TV is back in his old job. He's lucky. But in reality he'd have been back in his old job in December anyway. There are next to no pilot jobs out there. That was another thing PTC neglected to tell their students.

donkey balls

The fact that the company books were audited by a auditing company and shown to the IAA to be in order, I must be missing something ? on what basis would the IAA have reason to question an FTO independing auditing company.
As for the senator mouthing off you would think that him been a solicitor that he would do his homework in regards to how the IAA operates and what role they play in aviation,.

Bawn

I was a member in Skytrace. Granted, I had only about 8 hours training put in (hobby) but recently I realised they were closed down. I had no idea. I didn't realise they would be affected by the troubles of the PTC in Waterford.

I had a few hundred quid on my account in there.

Anyone any idea if / how I could get that back?

LeftBase

Bawn wrote: »

I was a member in Skytrace. Granted, I had only about 8 hours training put in (hobby) but recently I realised they were closed down. I had no idea. I didn't realise they would be affected by the troubles of the PTC in Waterford.

I had a few hundred quid on my account in there.

Anyone any idea if / how I could get that back?

At a guess I would say you have very little chance of seeing that money again.

Skytrace operated as a hook for people. Do you PPL there and they get roped in to doing the rest at PTC. The irony was that people would have an IAA PPL and then have to redo the whole thing on the "Integrated Course" giving Edgeworth more cash!

donkey balls

If you paid money by credit card in to your account get in contact with the card company and explain the situation, They should be able to get some of your funds back.

de biz

From todays Irish Examiner:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/iaa-pilot-college-financing-like-a-ponzi-scheme-211915.html

GearUp

I drove passed my local airport yesterday (an airport I would spend a lot of time) to find a Seminole parked on the apron of G-OPTC.

I thought i'd g-info it to see if it was from PTC and it was! Registered to Edgeworth under a different company name to which I believe he "leased" his own planes to his own school. I imagine this means a technicality is in the way of taking his (from I am lead to believe are 5 seminoles and 3 arrows) planes away from him. Aparently he's trying to move his fleet from waterford to Enniskillen to where he has even been heard talking about setting up an FTO!

I'm struggling to understand the mentality of a man that has the cheek to set up another FTO or even hangar his planes within driving distance of students to whom he owes 5.5million euros too.

I don't think the people at the airport are that stupid to let that kind of publicity come to their door step. It's definitely a talking point down there which is obviously causing everyone to worry. It's not exactly the best climate to be turning down any income.