PILOT TRAINING COLLEGE(PTC) GOING OUT OF BUSINESS

flyingcowboys

flight training in waterford has been suspended by the IAA

also


Here is a list of the planes belonging to PTC.

EI-SKB
EI-SKC
EI-SKD
EI-SKE
EI-SKP
EI-SKR
EI-SKS
EI-SKT
EI-SKU
EI-SKV
EI-SKW

everyone of them have been placed for sale today

http://www.globalplanesearch.com/ireland/piper/

PTCSTUDENT123

@flyingcowboys, I've heard that there are atpl exams coming up in the next week or so and PTC make you do mock ones so they can make more money off you. will these go ahead?

nuggetclv

http://www.iaa.ie/index.jsp?p=143&n=197
Shouldn't they be on that list?

@flyingcowboys:

Where did you hear training was suspended?

flyingcowboys

no we dont thankfully, besides how can we. the IAA has suspended operations in florida and waterford for how long i dont know. we just have to apply ourselves and fork out even more money even though i paid PTC for the exams. The IAA still needs to get paid

flyingcowboys

@nuggetclv

was talking to them. they set up a hotline for PTC students. i apologise as i left out temporarily. They are temporarily suspended so they wouldnt be up on that list just yet anyway

coylemj

I just listened to the news headlines on RTE Radio1, the bad guys apparently are the people in Florida who have not fulfilled their side of the deal so PTC have pulled out of the arrangement and because they have already paid over a lot of money, the students will be out of pocket.

I've read the earlier posts so I'm pretty well informed of this situation, you guys will be choking on your tea when you listen to the spin that PTC have gotten RTE to swallow.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0704/irish-trainee-pilots-stranded-in-florida.html

happyb

@LeftBase
"This is fantasy and if this happened that training provider may be in hot water with it's current students."
"I should certainly hope that this does not mean that these students will be offered free training."

What a disgusting rant from someone shoving other peoples faces in the mud when they are down. People worked years and took out morgages to pay for the training,Not everyone had the benefit of choosing Schools due to structure and location or Parents pockets. Careers ruined and you want to tell the world that you have super hindsight ability and are great because you chose the course that is not in trouble.
One Word for You
Karma

coylemj

RTE Radio1 News at 6 p.m....

PTC says (about the Florida flight school) that 'The training has not been delivered in a timely and professional manner because of staffing and other issues.' so they have terminated the contract.

Irish Times have just tweeted it .. http://t.co/NhVmvbm9

Of course there is nobody available in Florida because of the 4th of July so none of the news organisations can get the other side of the story, good news management on the part of PTC.

jmayo

LeftBase wrote: »

That would be through PTC Ireland, and officially that is still going, although it would seem not for long.

My above post about free training etc wasn't meant to suggest that they would get free training paid for by the taxpayer or the IAA or Dennis O'Brien or whoever else pays for stuff when people don't have the cash. I was just pointing out the fact that some of the PTC students I have seen comment on the net and the few I personally know have seemed to be looking for the training they paid for and some are hoping that somebody will pick up the contract and train them rest of the way without having to pay any more.

Bailout for PTC students ehhh ?

happyb wrote: »

...
What a disgusting rant from someone shoving other peoples faces in the mud when they are down. People worked years and took out morgages to pay for the training,Not everyone had the benefit of choosing Schools due to structure and location or Parents pockets. Careers ruined and you want to tell the world that you have super hindsight ability and are great because you chose the course that is not in trouble.
One Word for You
Karma

Ahh FFS.
When are people going to wise up that if they are going to spend 5 figure sums, and especially if they are having to scrape to do, that they should do a huge amount of research.

It is the same thing with how some people have been badly burnt with property and are complaining when some people said I told you so.
It is not fooking great hindsight, but most often someone using a bit of common sense together with a fair bit of research.

I remember a thread on here where someone was braying how PTC had assured their girlfriend/boyfriend of an airline job and promotion to captain's seat within 5 odd years.
Of course those that questioned that rosey outlook were lambasted by the original poster and a few others.

Lustrum

happyb wrote: »

@LeftBase
"This is fantasy and if this happened that training provider may be in hot water with it's current students."
"I should certainly hope that this does not mean that these students will be offered free training."

What a disgusting rant from someone shoving other peoples faces in the mud when they are down. People worked years and took out morgages to pay for the training,Not everyone had the benefit of choosing Schools due to structure and location or Parents pockets. Careers ruined and you want to tell the world that you have super hindsight ability and are great because you chose the course that is not in trouble.
One Word for You
Karma

It's not hindsight, it's foresight! No-one deserves to be in this mess, but it is not the first time this has happened - Cabair closed it's doors in the UK not long ago leaving plenty of people high and dry, and a good few Irish lost a lot of money through the scam in Canada a few years back.

I'm not coming on here to gloat, but as many have said, parting with that kind of cash should involves some serious research beforehand, and there is plenty of bad news about PTC from years past all over the web. I spent 3 months visiting flight schools in Ireland and the UK before I decided on a FTO, including chasing down past students to talk to them, and I spent a lot less than €80000.

I hope something works out for the guys over there as it's not their fault at all

Jesus Nut

Lustrum wrote: »

but it is not the first time this has happened - Cabair closed it's doors in the UK not long ago leaving plenty of people high and dry, and a good few Irish lost a lot of money through the scam in Canada a few years back.
l

And dont forget the Sigmar Cityjet guys who got screwed over to the tune of €95,000 not that very long ago either in South Africa, remember?

LeftBase

Very ill informed post and I shall take it in isolation to explain just how off you are happyb

happyb wrote: »

@LeftBase
What a disgusting rant from someone shoving other peoples faces in the mud when they are down. People worked years and took out morgages to pay for the training,

Those years would have been better spent seemingly asking 1 person in the aviation industry about PTC. Talk to 1 person roughly involved in Irish aviation and they will tell you to steer well clear!

Not everyone had the benefit of choosing Schools due to structure and location or Parents pockets.

In my experiance PTC students have plenty of money and financial resources/security. The people with small pockets and no mammies and daddies to fund them are the ones who have to do the real research to get themselves the best deal which means they never end up at PTC. I would never have been able to afford 80-100k which is what PTC charge. I got a better deal through research and a level head. These guys had too much money and security to splash around

Careers ruined and you want to tell the world that you have super hindsight ability and are great because you chose the course that is not in trouble.

A lot of these guys never had a hope in the industry given PTC's tattered rep with the airlines and the huge debts they would have built up. A brief chat with an aviation person in Ireland or a google search would have told them this! Where would they get the capital for a TR for example? I feel sorry for them, but cant help but assume they didnt do the background work before handing such a vulgar sum of money over.

One Word for You
Karma

Yes Karma...you do silly or bad things and you get burned! Your seeming knowledge of the industry(or lack there of) is congruent a PTC student or relative of a PTC student.

MrPoker

happyb wrote: »

What a disgusting rant from someone shoving other peoples faces in the mud when they are down. People worked years and took out morgages to pay for the training,Not everyone had the benefit of choosing Schools due to structure and location or Parents pockets. Careers ruined and you want to tell the world that you have super hindsight ability and are great because you chose the course that is not in trouble.
One Word for You
Karma

I hate to see anybody in this situation but these guys were cleary duped and bought into the slick PTC salesmanship. I mean PTC promising a glorious career at the end of it all in todays climate and for what? The small sum of E85000 minimum? A bit of research could have saved these students alot of money as there are flight schools that charge nearly half of what PTC charge and have a good reputation. I think that ASA judgement from two years ago sums it up.

A couple of years ago I went to one of their expos and told them straight out that I didnt have the money to do an integrated course and would prefer to go the modular route over time whenever I had the money. The saleswoman/FI suddenly didn't want to talk to me and I then felt that something wasn't right with them.

Good luck to the stranded students and I hope it gets resolved soon.

Xpro

Lads nobody said that PTc students might be offered free training, what IAA said that they will be credited with what ever they have achieved so far, as you all know once you start integrated if you stop half way, you have nothing. So if lads already have cpl skill test past, they might credited that licence so they can continue elsewhere.

As for the aircrafts for sale, i wonder who operates PTC planes in weston. I was there today and both G reg Warrior and Robin 400 were flat out today.

LeftBase

Xpro wrote: »

So if lads already have cpl skill test past, they might credited that licence so they can continue elsewhere.

A lot of people who's cash dried up in the past and were shipped out with nothing may find that hard to swallow

Xpro

LeftBase wrote: »

A lot of people who's cash dried up in the past and were shipped out with nothing may find that hard to swallow

True enough

saspeir

LeftBase wrote: »

A lot of people who's cash dried up in the past and were shipped out with nothing may find that hard to swallow

I get the feeling you're revelling in their misery.

The fact that somebody's cash may have dried up is nothing to do with the Regulator (I.A.A.). When a flying school has gone bust and records are left behind and integrated courses unfinished (which were overseen and aproved by the I.A.A. and were started in good faith) that has everything to do with the I.A.A.

Instead of gloating in somebody elses hardship would you not be better off hitting the books?

Delancey

Given the record of Flight Schools going belly up I would run a million miles from a provider that sought up front payment.

This thread reminds me of someone who posted here a couple of years ago that he wanted to be an airline pilot and was seeking advice on which school was best.
Someone suggested he could also apply for the RAF to which our earnest would-be-pilot asked - '' what does RAF mean ? '' - sounds like the perfect candidate for PTC.

LeftBase

saspeir wrote: »

I get the feeling you're revelling in their misery.

The fact that somebody's cash may have dried up is nothing to do with the Regulator (I.A.A.). When a flying school has gone bust and records are left behind and integrated courses unfinished (which were overseen and aproved by the I.A.A. and were started in good faith) that has everything to do with the I.A.A.

Instead of gloating in somebody elses hardship would you not be better off hitting the books?

I wont lie and will admit that there is a flicker of satisfaction in seeing their sometimes arrogant students reap what they sow. However I do know a few of the guys hit by this and can assure you that I do no revel in their misery.

The point I am making is that an unfinished integrated course is a regulatory matter and in aviation regulations are black and white. If you stop an integrated course half way through for whatever reason be it no more money or the school going bust you cannot pick it up so easy.
I know of one lad who was booted from an FTO after he finished the ATPLs over being a week late paying his latest installment. When the money came through he applied to pick up the course in another course provider and was told that this was not allowed as regulations stated that an FTO provides a plan for it's integrated course for approval by the authority and you cannot move from one integrated course half way through and do the second half on another integrated course at another provider. He ended up sitting a PPL flight test back in Ireland for issue of his PPL and was credited the ATPLs by the IAA. However he had to do about 50 hours extra which was a strain on finances and as a result he couldn't get the cash to fly for a good while. He ended up running over his 3 years and is clawing the money together to resit the ATPLs through a part-time job.
Now if the PTC guys are allowed to slot into another course I'd imagine he will have a few choice words for the IAA!

If they can complete their training that is great...however in the past people in a similar situations have not been allowed switch schools or cut into an approved course at another provider. Those people would ask serious questions if this was suddenly allowed now.

Su Campu

Xpro wrote: »

As for the aircrafts for sale, i wonder who operates PTC planes in weston. I was there today and both G reg Warrior and Robin 400 were flat out today.

East Coast Flight Training, set up independently in the wake of Skytrace, now operate the Warrior. Skytrace told me a few weeks back that they had the Robin in Weston to honour the remaining vouchers.

king2

Of course in the old pre jar days, someone could come back from florida or wherever for whatever reason and all their flight training would count towards their Irish Licence. Happier, simpler times.Now someone can come back with 150hrs that cost 80 grand and none of it counts for anything. Another fine example of EU "progress".

Carvair

jmayo wrote: »

Bailout for PTC students ehhh ?

Ahh FFS.
When are people going to wise up that if they are going to spend 5 figure sums, and especially if they are having to scrape to do, that they should do a huge amount of research.

.

Its nice to see you putting the boot in as well, I dont think I have ever seen so many people prepared to kick others when they are down as I am seeing here on Boards.

LeftBase

Carvair wrote: »

Its nice to see you putting the boot in as well, I dont think I have ever seen so many people prepared to kick others when they are down as I am seeing here on Boards.

Pointing out obvious facts is hardly putting the boot in. We all could have told these students this was going to happen and you can look back over other threads and other sites to see the various examples of people flagging up issues with PTC that stretch back well over 3 or 4 years. Everyone in the aviation community in Ireland knew Skytrace was gone to the wall and most knew about the shakey asset base PTC operated on. Most knew the attitude a lot of airlines held towards PTC too. Anyone one of these facts would have discouraged a potential pilot who did their research and asked around, and so the obvious conclusion is that they did no research before parting with 80-100k.....I mean a simple google search of PTC would show you the horror stories.

The fact is these PTC students regularly told all of us how mistaken we were for training anywhere but PTC and how they would all have guaranteed jobs with the airlines queuing up to get their signature on a career long 100k a year FO contract on the A380...and after 10 mins in the right seat they'd be promoted to Captain and paid 300k a year and live in a gold house! They put the boot into us when we were trying to claw the money together for a flight or study for our ATPL exams without their "learning aids" or pass our flight tests with their in house examiners.
Their arrogance knew no bounds at times and the frustrating thing was these guys knew so little about the industry yet they were clogging up application processes in airlines for the rest of us.
Many many times we told friends, family and various others that they were gambling with huge sums of money and they told us we were "jealous" and gloated even though a trip to a PTC open day would show you various jobless graduates being hidden away in rooms away from public sight.

PTC pick on the most vulnerable people..the kids who have parents that love them and want them to be happy and successful in life. These chancers have literally torn families apart now. I do not believe they will see much if any of their money back and that could have an effect on families for generations even. Some people may lose their house, car or business over this!
I pity these students...I really do...some of them have seen their dreams shattered, but I always did my best to steer people away from PTC, as did everyone else I know in the game. I can only guess that a lot of those stung now are those who didn't listen or thought they knew better. The writing was on the wall and I'm sorry...but a lot of them have nobody but themselves to blame....

It's the truth and they cannot escape that.

APM

Jesus Nut wrote: »

And dont forget the Sigmar Cityjet guys who got screwed over to the tune of €95,000 not that very long ago either in South Africa, remember?

and guys who werent with cityjet also lost even more money completing their flight training.

troposphere

Leftbase, you seem to be getting way too much satisfaction out of this.

LeftBase

troposphere wrote: »

Leftbase, you seem to be getting way too much satisfaction out of this.

I'm just glad to see the scam exposed on the mainstream media!

McNulty737

I too have campaigned for years about what a ****ty school PTC is/was....however i must say this "told you so" attitude is disgusting. My heart goes out to those students that have been screwed over by these crooks. The only positive to come out of this is that its the end of PTC, and in particular hopefully the end of a certain chief executives career in aviation.

I don't understand why peoples hours in the states dont directly transfer back here. Hours in cessna's/seminole's are the same regardless of whether they are done in america or europe - stupid bloody bureaucrats rearing their ugly head in aviation as usual.

Carvair

LeftBase wrote: »

Everyone in the aviation community in Ireland knew Skytrace was gone to the wall and most knew about the shakey asset base PTC operated on. Most knew the attitude a lot of airlines held towards PTC too. .

Your "My holier than everybody" attititude is really appalling. Not evryone is in the Aviation community, nor does everyone outside it have contacts on the inside and No one on the outside has a clue about what "A lot of airlines" think of PTC.

I am not defending PTC in any way, as I know very liuttle about the company, but what about those people who have completed their flying courses with the company and are now working in the industry

Instead of appearing almost delighted with yourself and your self righteous attitude, you should at the very least show some sympathy to those who have been stung.

saspeir

SUITS/LeftBase/Whatever your name is... Your psychologically compromised attitude is a dead give away...

Neworder79

What are the implications for Waterford airport from this closure, did the PTC contribute signifigantly to the airports income? Are the other flight schools operating?

WAT are already in a difficult position relying on €2m+ annual operational subvention (highest of all regionals) while the Department of Transport plan to further cut the scheme. FlyBE have replaced one lost route but overall scheduled movements are down on previous years.