PILOT TRAINING COLLEGE(PTC) GOING OUT OF BUSINESS

Xpro

i wonder where mr Suits vanished:D

saspeir

Neworder79 wrote: »

What are the implications for Waterford airport from this closure, did the PTC contribute signifigantly to the airports income? Are the other flight schools operating?

WAT are already in a difficult position relying on €2m+ annual operational subvention (highest of all regionals) while the Department of Transport plan to further cut the scheme. FlyBE have replaced one lost route but overall scheduled movements are down on previous years.

They're probably owed quite a bit I reckon. If previous action is anything to go by I wouldn't be surprised if a couple of sturdy objects are placed around aircraft belonging to PTC until payment is received...

Cessna_Pilot

NEVER EVER PAY UP FRONT.

How many times do we have to say it and warn people. A lot of these lads were warned many many times, not to pay up front. Not to believe the bull**** that this school was selling to parents of these wannabes. Go do some research. But no, they ignored it, they believed the bull**** because it sounded great and ignored the experience of others that had gone before.
I've come across many of them in the last few years, and advised them against going here. But they ALL knew better, the school promised them jobs, and rubbished the other options available to them.
6 years ago I was "not involved in aviation community" but I still had the cop on to do my research, go on forums and ask questions and investigate the negative responses. I went to an open day in PTC back in 2006 and walked out in disgust after my questions were ignored and dodgy replies given to them, but the rest of the people there were lapping up the horse****. Typical response was along the lines of "the airlines only select from us, if your children want to work for Ryanair, Aer Lingus, BA, QANTAS etc we are the only school with the connections to get them jobs as future captains.

The attidudes of a lot of the students that comes out of the place is appalling also, they must spend a full semester or term being taught the art of arrogance and cockiness, because they sure don't teach much along the lines of airmanship.

I recently bumped into a student who was planning on going there, he asked me about my training etc and how I managed to slip through the net and get a good job with an airline having not gone to PTC. He was genuinely confused and baffled. Says it all really doesn't it.

While some of Leftbase's comments there may be a tad extreme, he/she is on the right track. Unfortunately.

jmayo

Lustrum wrote: »

It's not hindsight, it's foresight! No-one deserves to be in this mess, but it is not the first time this has happened - Cabair closed it's doors in the UK not long ago leaving plenty of people high and dry, and a good few Irish lost a lot of money through the scam in Canada a few years back.

Cabair were pretty big at one stage.
it just shows how even a fairly big organisation can come a cropper in the aviation world.

Xpro wrote: »

Lads nobody said that PTc students might be offered free training, what IAA said that they will be credited with what ever they have achieved so far, as you all know once you start integrated if you stop half way, you have nothing. So if lads already have cpl skill test past, they might credited that licence so they can continue elsewhere.

If some had passed a skills test (with all the requsitie flight training/hours) I would have presumed nobody can take that license away from them ?

king2 wrote: »

Of course in the old pre jar days, someone could come back from florida or wherever for whatever reason and all their flight training would count towards their Irish Licence. Happier, simpler times.Now someone can come back with 150hrs that cost 80 grand and none of it counts for anything. Another fine example of EU "progress".

if the 150 hours was done with a JAA accredited school then it counts for JAA license in JAA state that approved the school AFAIK.
Also if the 150 hours were done with FAA accredited school, which if in the US then it probably is, then the hours would count towards FAA licenses.

Carvair wrote: »

Its nice to see you putting the boot in as well, I dont think I have ever seen so many people prepared to kick others when they are down as I am seeing here on Boards.

It is not putting the boot in, but having a go at posters who seem to think that nobody saw anything wrong with this school and anyway that now says otherwise are somehow just being wise in hindsight.
I post a lot in Accommodation and Property and the same mindset is exhibited there by people who made some very unwise property investment decisions.

Carvair wrote: »

Your "My holier than everybody" attititude is really appalling. Not evryone is in the Aviation community, nor does everyone outside it have contacts on the inside and No one on the outside has a clue about what "A lot of airlines" think of PTC.

You don't have to have inside contacts in the aviation industry to find out a lot of information about a flight training organisation.
There are a lot of aviation forums and a lot of people talk.
In fact some in the aviation business have tried to gag the most famous aviation discussion forum because they don't want their dodgy dealings being exposed.

I have flown with flight training organisations in 5 different countries doing PPL, taildragger, mountain and floats.

Even though I was only spending maybe a few thousand I did a lot of research into the history, the reputation and capabilities of all the organisations.
I never agreed to pay more than a couple of grand upfront and that was only in case of basic PPL.
All other training, revalidation, etc was paid after the actual training.
I have always found that the schools (usually small bar one in Florida) are agreeable to you paying them at the end of that day for that days flying.
In fact some schools like the hard cash.

I know that may be impossible to do when studying for ATPL/CPL, but I find it crazy that one would fork out over 50,000 grand up front for training you may get in 12 months.
How much did these guys fork out at the start of the course and how long was it before they actually got to sit their ar** in an actual aircraft.
I heard yesterday it was 3 months before they actually flew, is that true ?

This whole scenario just reaffirms how I always thought the guys I met hour building whilst going the modular route are doing it the right way.
They don't fork out crazy amounts up front, face huge debts after they finish and run the risk of being left like these guys with PTC.

Some of those modular guys are now airline pilots and added to the fact that they didn't run the risk of losing massive amounts of money, I think they would also have a more diverse flying background than having done all the training with the one FTO.

Carvair wrote: »

Instead of appearing almost delighted with yourself and your self righteous attitude, you should at the very least show some sympathy to those who have been stung.

I think people do have sympathy for the students, but I can see where the poster is coming from.
Flying attracts some rich kids who have wads of cash to keep them going whilst the rest are scraping by.
The ones I have real smypathy for are the ones who were scraping by, trying to live a dream.
Funny thing is all the guys I met going the modular route were the ones scraping by.

Xpro

Cessna_Pilot wrote: »

NEVER EVER PAY UP FRONT.

Rich people dont think that way:rolleyes:

I dont want to pour more petrol on the fire, but what annoys me now especially after listening Minister of Transport " Leo Vardakar"on radio, he says we will do anything we can to credit the students and find the lowest cost FTO so they can continue their training.
Now when you have money, you will always do well.

This people as you can see from all the media hype can obviously afford to bring the news to the top

In the end of the day i really dont understand whats all the hype about, we all knew PTC was dodgy, they were overcharging left right and centre and people still fell for their top class misleading advertisment.

Number of companys go under every day, people are losing thousands and nobody gives a damn.
Are they special?

Xpro

jmayo wrote: »

If some had passed a skills test (with all the requsitie flight training/hours) I would have presumed nobody can take that license away from them ?

Not really.
Licences are only awarded on completion of the full course.

Thats integrated for you, often FTO`s dont mention this to you when you sign up

CharlieOscar

As Xpro said companies go under every day and people are losing alot more than €80 odd grand.

I was almost lured by the temptation back in 2007 of getting the finance and signing over my life to PTC, however sense prevailed, and I thought, the customer is what keeps a company afloat, not to other way around, so it should be on my terms not theirs, they after all are looking for the business (and in PTC's case to pay for their appeallng/alluring/misleading advertisments).

Unfortunate for the students over there, but who on earth hands over the price of a 3 bed rural house with nothing in return only the promise of training?

Someone earlier said that NFC are going the same route, at least the maximum outlay per payment there is something like €10k/€15k, but at that stage, at least you have a PPL and are some way into your CPL by the time your are on the different stages of payments.

Leo just wants to be in the media again saying what the voters want to hear. I would suggest that those unfortunate student/parents of student get together and seek legal advise somewhat promptly and attempt to recover whatever they can.

LeftBase

saspeir wrote: »

SUITS/LeftBase/Whatever your name is... Your psychologically compromised attitude is a dead give away...

I had to go through a quick boards search to find out who Suits was. I've been long enough on the internet to know that accusing other posters of being "another poster" is the last act of a desperate argument, when you cannot field a point.:rolleyes:

Your "My holier than everybody" attititude is really appalling. Not evryone is in the Aviation community, nor does everyone outside it have contacts on the inside and No one on the outside has a clue about what "A lot of airlines" think of PTC.

That is a remarkable statement I must say and is really quite appalling in itself. You don't need contacts in the industry or even a working knowledge of it. You just need a google search or a 10 second conversation with anyone who is training to be a pilot or involved in aviation....or even post a question about PTC here. The only conclusion that can be drawn is that most of these guys never bothered to do even a most basic background check on PTC before handing over a giant sum of money to them!
Some people commenting here are obviously informed on aviation, but others ironically enough are perfect PTC targets!

I am not defending PTC in any way, as I know very little about the company, but what about those people who have completed their flying courses with the company and are now working in the industry

Those are very few in the past couple of years. It's more about those who are left on the scrapheap. A guy from my FTO did his MCC at Simtech and was signed up by Ryanair a few weeks later luckily. He said that there were 8 PTC grads hanging around like ghosts there helping out and trying to keep the hours up by sitting in on sim sessions and MCC work. Down in PTC itself there is another raft of them all floating around like ghosts. Edgeworth's sometimes "aggressive" marketing knocked Ryanair's nose out of joint and once you do that you may as well pack up and go home if you are an FTO. Very few of their graduates have gotten actual in the cockpit airline jobs. A good few are on the holding pool at Flybe and may never emerge, while others have packed in aviation as they have to feed themselves. The fact you say you dont know much about PTC leads me to believe you dont really get what I'm saying in previous posts and so I appear a bit harsh. If you do 10 mins research your opinion of me may soften.

Look people are picking me up the wrong way here. I am not unsympathetic to these students..I would never rub their noses in it and I have friends there who I have been in contact with and who I told before not to go near the place but alas they knew better...I'm not gloating I'm just pointing out the practical issues involved...I really do have sympathy for them as they were badly duped by a shower of con artists...and now may suffer for many years. However the evidence of the con was there for a pro-active, level headed, forward thinking(sound like attributes a certain career choice may need?) person to see. Aviation boards such as these throughout Europe have been filled with negative comments and stories about PTC for years now. Past students say nothing but negatives about them for the most part and any pilot will tell you they are a crock. The very simple question I ask without being "unsympathetic" and "putting the boot in" or "kicking people while they're down" is why given this huge body of warning did they still go there and hand over 80-100k?? Did they fail to do any research at all? or did they see all of this and still press on anyway...I really would be fascinated to know their side of that story and their reasoning behind it. Flying in Ireland is a community and if I could I would do what I could to help these students stranded in Florida.
As other posters have said we have spent years getting it in the neck from PTC students and being treated like dirt as they "laugh it up" about us. They put the boot in at every opportunity and rubbed our faces in their "great job prospects" too!

I personally have had to claw money together to chase my dream. I was almost tempted to run down the road shouting "stand and deliver" at cars at one point. I have worked my ass off for the few 100e I can get together every few weeks to chase the dream. Anyone who truly worked hard to get that 80k together would never have parted with it if they saw the negative talk on PTC a basic google search or question to a pilot would bring. It seems that the only people who were going to PTC in the past few years were those with more money than sense. What I'd do for 80k to train.....

I know a lot more about PTC than I can post on an open board I might add.

saspeir

@LeftBase

Nobody is disagreeing with you on the basic facts:

• PTC were dodgy.
• Do your research when spending money (not just large sums).
• Don't jump in on something with false promises, again, do research.
• Don't pay upfront.

But FFS, you're like a broken record... STFU! Please... God help your family if you ever do get in a cockpit, they'll never hear the end of it.

LeftBase

saspeir wrote: »

But FFS, you're like a broken record... STFU! Please... God help your family if you ever do get in a cockpit, they'll never hear the end of it.

Yeh I'll be sure to warn my family........:rolleyes:

I have addressed the points made in response to my posts with my views...as per the point of being here. Posting only to insult another poster and telling them to STFU is really helpful in a dialouge...

ChicaneAuto

From my experience in recessionary Ireland I'd imagine these lads and lassies will find that they are unsecured creditors, so the banks and any suppliers the crowd of cowboys want to deal with in future will be first in line to get paid, if there is any money left in the kitty after that then maybe some of the students money will be paid back. However judging by the way this outfit has conducted business so far, they've probably flogged a dead horse so far that there is going to be nothing left.
If there is or was there's a chance it was siphoned off already, like when topgifts was going bust, they spent about 150k refitting an office a few weeks before it went wallop.

I really feel for these students, whether or not they were foolish to pay up front, they are being severely ripped off, and a bit of good taste and compassion from some people, however wise wouldnt go amiss.

LeftBase

ChicaneAuto wrote: »

From my experience in recessionary Ireland I'd imagine these lads and lassies will find that they are unsecured creditors, so the banks and any suppliers the crowd of cowboys want to deal with in future will be first in line to get paid, if there is any money left in the kitty after that then maybe some of the students money will be paid back. However judging by the way this outfit has conducted business so far, they've probably flogged a dead horse so far that there is going to be nothing left.
If there is or was there's a chance it was siphoned off already, like when topgifts was going bust, they spent about 150k refitting an office a few weeks before it went wallop.

I really feel for these students, whether or not they were foolish to pay up front, they are being severely ripped off, and a bit of good taste and compassion from some people, however wise wouldnt go amiss.

The money of recent admissions has been used to pay for the training of more advanced students seemingly. The general chatter from the guys I know there is that guys around the CPL/IR stage may get something back, but money of the newer guys has gone poof. Seemingly there are 8 guys there who had to pay an installment of 83k to start training and they haven't even been given headsets yet....let alone see an aircraft.

I read over some of my previous posts and point taken they are a little heavy. However it will no great mystery to posters here NOW that I hate PTC and their ways with a passion. I have had bad experiences with some of their students....2 of which called me an "idiot" and "totally screwed" at the FLYER expo for training modular. They almost offered me "salvation in the blood of our Lord Mike Edgeworth"....you'd swear it was a cult!

Anyhow..point taken and apologies...I was a little heavy and lost the run of myself a bit.....I just have a boiling rage within me toward PTC.

ChicaneAuto

leftBase wrote: »

I have had bad experiences with some of their students....2 of which called me an "idiot" and "totally screwed" at the FLYER expo for training modular.

Well to be honest if I had been condescended to and ridiculed like that by some ptc students, I'll admit that my flawed character would have me dancing on the graves of their aviation careers.
However I am sure there were decent people without such an attitude who do not deserve this ****.

saspeir

I was just reading through the comments attached to the story on RTé and it's truely awful stuff...

One family lost a parent and used the compensation to fund the course. That could so easily happen to anybody. The remaining parent just wants to give the child a chance, the child is young and still learning (not business-wise) and they get totally taken in by Mike 'No-morals' Edgeworth and his crew in Waterford...

I hope they pick themselves up and that other successes will dwarf this unfortunate situation.

@LeftBase, you should be ashamed.

LeftBase

saspeir wrote: »

@LeftBase, you should be ashamed.

How dare you try and use people's circumstance to attack me. That's a really cheap shot there and you show no class in outlining such a story and trying to pin it to an emotive statement aimed at me! You should really look at yourself after such a disgraceful post.

I told many many many more people who were in this bad a state and worse financially and domestically to steer clear and they did and I can tell you now that my phone was flooded yesterday with calls and texts from people thanking me for saving their lives and talking sense into them! Many other guys have similar stories of how they steered people away and those people are just as happy for it now!

I only outline the fact that there was clear evidence for years to warn of this and it was not heeded by those who have now lost out. Sometimes they were quite coarse and vulgar in their rebuff to helpful advice.
I have the strength of my own convictions not to throw false sentiment upon this situation. Something I think some people here are doing all too much.

Ask me a week ago what a thought of PTC students I'd have told you they were a bunch of ill informed sometimes arrogant kids sold a false story and on a road to disaster....and I stand by that now.

saspeir

LeftBase wrote: »

How dare you try and use people's circumstance to attack me. That's a really cheap shot there and you show no class in outlining such a story and trying to pin it to an emotive statement aimed at me! You should really look at yourself after such a disgraceful post.

I told many many many more people who were in this bad a state and worse financially and domestically to steer clear and they did and I can tell you now that my phone was flooded yesterday with calls and texts from people thanking me for saving their lives and talking sense into them! Many other guys have similar stories of how they steered people away and those people are just as happy for it now!

I only outline the fact that there was clear evidence for years to warn of this and it was not heeded by those who have now lost out. Sometimes they were quite coarse and vulgar in their rebuff to helpful advice.
I have the strength of my own convictions not to throw false sentiment upon this situation. Something I think some people here are doing all too much.

Ask me a week ago what a thought of PTC students I'd have told you they were a bunch of ill informed sometimes arrogant kids sold a false story and on a road to disaster....and I stand by that now.

I don't want to continue this. I'm staying out of now as I have no connection whatsoever to the story but for my interest in aviation.

I'll say it again. Shame on you for the manner in which you said what you said. There was no need for it. It's one thing to have made a good call but it's another to gloat in the wake of it. I think you have major character flaws.

LeftBase

saspeir wrote: »

I'll say it again. Shame on you for the manner in which you said what you said. There was no need for it. It's one thing to have made a good call but it's another to gloat in the wake of it. I think you have major character flaws.

The truth is the truth even if people don't like it. These people need to know the reality of the situation so they can move forward properly and not under a false impression.

If you bet on a lame horse and lose, you should not attack those who point out what a silly thing it was to do.

I've read the rte comments and things from other boards. A lot of the students are still living in the dream world they were in last week. Some are calling on the govt to get the air corps to finish their training.....I mean come on.....others are using the defence of "we dont understand the terms to the 80k contract we signed"...I mean lets call a spade a spade here.....

My character has nothing to do with the topic and is a diversion tactic I feel.

saspeir

LeftBase wrote: »

The truth is the truth even if people don't like it. These people need to know the reality of the situation so they can move forward properly and not under a false impression.

If you bet on a lame horse and lose, you should not attack those who point out what a silly thing it was to do.

I've read the rte comments and things from other boards. A lot of the students are still living in the dream world they were in last week. Some are calling on the govt to get the air corps to finish their training.....I mean come on.....others are using the defence of "we dont understand the terms to the 80k contract we signed"...I mean lets call a spade a spade here.....

My character has nothing to do with the topic and is a diversion tactic I feel.

To be fair to the students it was random ppl calling for the Aer Corp. to finish the training. That won't happen and shouldn't happen.

Everybody should look over legalise with a magnifying glass beforehand. We all know that. But again, why rub it in? They've lost out big time and I'm sure they won't do it again. It won't get them their money back either way.

And other people are saying since Enterprise Ireland supported PTC it now becomes the Irish gov.'s problem... Again, ppl say sh!t but it gives you no right to come on with your attitude and shove it in ppl's faces. I have a few words that describe that and if I posted here it wouldn't be up for long...

Goodbye...

saspeir

@LeftBase

Your name Pat by any chance from the comments left on RTé? The only comment posted today and within minutes of my above comment quoting RTé. :pac:

None of this would have happened if the students out there and their parents had listened to and read the immense amount of advice out there freely available on the internet about this organisation. People with experience have been advising against paying up front for training anywhere, but especially at the PTC so these people were all warned. I myself warned many many guys in the past and they all told me to feck off because the lovely people at PTC told them I was spoofing. Not much sympathy from me here guys I'm afraid. Pat

LeftBase

saspeir wrote: »

@LeftBase

Your name Pat by any chance from the comments left on RTé? The only comment posted today and within minutes of my above comment quoting RTé. :pac:

No I didnt post on RTE I just read the comments. That does look like I wrote it but hand on heart it isnt me!:pac:

I find it impossible to assume that these students never heard the bad side of PTC...they must have...nobody who dreams of being a pilot their whole life could not and no parents who works overtime to get the money would hand it over without checking out the company before...so the question stands..why are they there at all? I may sound like a broken record but I just dont get it! It is a mystery to me. They cannot claim they were never told the truth...they must have been As I said before and as my seeming alter ego echoed they most likely told those trying to talk sense into them to feck off. If they did....I have no sympathy for them.

However if they really were in the dark and caught out then I have a lot of sympathy!

An accountant working for one of the families of my friend who is out there said they more or less have to get stuck into PTC as quick as possible and stop waiting for something to happen before all the money disappears down a safe rabbit hole somewhere in Edgeworth's garden.

Delancey

LeftBase has clarified his position regarding PTC and has admitted some of his comments were likely to be perceived as perhaps less-than-sympathetic - poor form for folks to continue trying to beat him up.

I find the lack of basic precautions taken by PTC students to be staggering - FFS all they had to do was use Google or indeed this forum and they would have seen the issues . Frankly I doubt if many of them have as much interest in Aviation as the folks on this forum - I suspect they saw a glossy brochure and saw themselves in a ' glamorous ' airline job from day 1 with lots of Cabin Crew falling over them .....pure nonsense.

The suggestion that the Air Corps pick up their training should be treated with the contempt it deserves.

saspeir

Delancey wrote: »

LeftBase has clarified his position regarding PTC and has admitted some of his comments were likely to be perceived as perhaps less-than-sympathetic - poor form for folks to continue trying to beat him up.

So that makes it O.K. to revell in someone elses misfortune? Maybe, I must be the odd one out here that while I know they could have made better choices on the back of better research I wouldn't kick 'em while they're down... Poor form from me so...

I find the lack of basic precautions taken by PTC students to be staggering - FFS all they had to do was use Google or indeed this forum and they would have seen the issues . Frankly I doubt if many of them have as much interest in Aviation as the folks on this forum - I suspect they saw a glossy brochure and saw themselves in a ' glamorous ' airline job from day 1 with lots of Cabin Crew falling over them .....pure nonsense.

And what's the point in continuing this victriolic pumping of the chests? Will it give them back their money? - No. Will it do you any good other than inflating your ego? - No.

The suggestion that the Air Corps pick up their training should be treated with the contempt it deserves.

I agree. Do you really, even for a second, think that's going to happen?

Delancey

saspeir wrote: »

I agree. Do you really, even for a second, think that's going to happen?

Fair point , no I don't really expect that would be taken seriously though thats not to say some populist gobshyte politician won't push the idea.

bombs away

saspeir wrote: »

@LeftBase

Your name Pat by any chance from the comments left on RTé? The only comment posted today and within minutes of my above comment quoting RTé. :pac:

Just wondering why naming a user is relevant, sounds like your taking this personally

LeftBase

bombs away wrote: »

Just wondering why naming a user is relevant, sounds like your taking this personally

I think he is.

@ saspeir

So that makes it O.K. to revell in someone elses misfortune? Maybe, I must be the odd one out here that while I know they could have made better choices on the back of better research I wouldn't kick 'em while they're down... Poor form from me so...

I reject that assertion. I am just questioning how they ended up there in the 1st place given the body of readily available anti-PTC material there has been over many years.

I have written no open letter to PTC students sticking their faces in it and if one came on here to post I would not have a go at him. I am simpley raising the issue of how on earth PTC was still getting students even though most people have known their game for years. I have been asking that question well over 2-3 years now so I don't see why I should stop. I am not directing that question toward PTC students...just expressing my dismay at how it happened.

As I have stated before I have friends in FIT at the moment and I have not once said I told you so or anything remotely near it to them.
Nobody would knowingly hand over 80k if they knew what PTC was like...so I'd just like to know why they did'nt know? I'm not rubbing anyone's face in it or reveling in anyone's misfortune. I've just never been one to jump on the emotional bandwagon.

saspeir

LeftBase wrote: »

I have written no open letter to PTC students sticking their faces in it and if one came on here to post I would not have a go at him. I am simpley raising the issue of how on earth PTC was still getting students even though most people have known their game for years. I have been asking that question well over 2-3 years now so I don't see why I should stop. I am not directing that question toward PTC students...just expressing my dismay at how it happened.

Is that all now?

Their arrogance knew no bounds at times and the frustrating thing was these guys knew so little about the industry yet they were clogging up application processes in airlines for the rest of us.
Many many times we told friends, family and various others that they were gambling with huge sums of money and they told us we were "jealous" and gloated even though a trip to a PTC open day would show you various jobless graduates being hidden away in rooms away from public sight.

And, even by your own admission:

I read over some of my previous posts and point taken they are a little heavy. However it will no great mystery to posters here NOW that I hate PTC and their ways with a passion. I have had bad experiences with some of their students....2 of which called me an "idiot" and "totally screwed" at the FLYER expo for training modular. They almost offered me "salvation in the blood of our Lord Mike Edgeworth"....you'd swear it was a cult!

Anyhow..point taken and apologies...I was a little heavy and lost the run of myself a bit.....I just have a boiling rage within me toward PTC.

LeftBase

saspeir wrote: »

Is that all now?



And, even by your own admission:

That's a little sad on your part I must say. I stated these were incidents with students in isolation. I am not having a go at all 80 students out there. However I would imagine a few are the types who would have engaged in the behavior I outlined above and I will cry no tears for any of them who did do or say such things to students of other schools.
As I stated above there are no PTC students here and so I am expressing my opinion in an open discussion.
They made a huge error and entered into a dream world. Errors in life and especially in aviation should always be pointed out if they lead to serious negative consequences for any party. Nobody denies these students got it very wrong and made an error that many would find it hard to justify....I dont see why we all have to pussy foot around that fact. Not once have I said "ha ha stupid PTC idiots....maybe you'll be one of my passengers some day"...that is a line more favored by some of them. When they thought they were great they rubbed our faces in it...now we cannot even state they made an error without getting rebuffed.

Delancey

Given what I would consider to be the high risk of a Flight School collapsing and taking its students money with it the question must be asked : Why has the industry failed to protect students , either by holding funds in Escrow or some sort of Bonding arrangement ?

Whats the bets in a year or 2 there will be an exact replica of this discussion on this forum when another provider goes wallop ?

Crey86

Having read the last two pages of posts. I can't agree more with saspeir, your attitude is shocking leftbase. You seem to thoroughly enjoy the suffering of others. But, what you don't realise now, is that someday it'll be you in the spot light and you'll be cursing the "I told you so" gang.

These guys and girls did something very naive but they were coerced by a well greased marketing/bluffing machine and I'm sure they'll be wiser in the future.

Hopefully they get their money back but I wouldn't be holding my breath.

Anyone else feel a little bit of sick coming up when they see "Cpt." Mike Edgeworth. What exactly is he captain of?

bombs away

Crey86 wrote: »

What exactly is he captain of?

Bull**** it seems