PILOT TRAINING COLLEGE(PTC) GOING OUT OF BUSINESS

pclancy

Would appreciate it if people would calm the emotions and refrain from insulting each other. You have no idea who people are or what their connection is to this collapse so some empathy for their plight would be nice. If you get annoyed take a break and rethink your point, severl posts before this were infringable.

Hindsight's a great thing, sadly when chasing the dream of being a pilot its easy get sucked into a scheme like this

Jesus Nut

Is the department considering using the Irish Air Corps Cadet Training Wing to help complete the PTC's students training did I hear ?

king2

bombs away wrote: »

Bull**** it seems

He never flew commercially AFAIK. Strictly Speaking, anyone who ever commanded an Aircraft, even a C172 can refer to themselves as Captain, although its usually only Twats that do!

LeftBase

Crey86 wrote: »

Having read the last two pages of posts. I can't agree more with saspeir, your attitude is shocking leftbase. You seem to thoroughly enjoy the suffering of others. But, what you don't realise now, is that someday it'll be you in the spot light and you'll be cursing the "I told you so" gang.

It's easy to say that they are all innocent victims however anyone who has every dealt with PTC or it's students would not be so quick to shower them in sympathy.

6 months ago if I told these 80 students that they were making a mistake and this would happen they would have met me with a string that would make a merchant navy man blush. Nobody is as quick to snap at them when they attack a struggling modular student.
The problem is a lot of people here who are telling me my attitude is wrong have not trekked the hard path of pilot training and dealt with PTC and it's students. Perhaps if they had they would understand.

bluecode

Sorry I must defend Leftbase on this. He over does it but his comments reflect my experience too. Saspeir you may not like like what he says but he's right. PTC were exposed as con merchants quite some time ago. Even the simplest google would have revealed to the naive individuals now stranded out there in Florida that they were taking a massive gamble by investing their Daddies money in the dream.

I went to one of the the pilot recruitment show in Dublin. I couldn't believe it when a PTC student earnestly told me he was on an integrated course, long before they ever started one.

It's not schadenfraude, this was never a secret. This moment had to come, PTC were always more marketing than substance. It was always going to come to this.

I don't really blame Mr Edgeworth, the truth is that pilots are crap businessmen. The best flying schools are run by business men first, pilots second.

PTC was always a triumph of marketing over reality. This moment was inevitable. The tragedy is that there are too many dreamers in this business.

McNulty737

Edgeworth flew corporate for a while, whether or not he was ever made captain i dont know, i would guess probably not. He also has done quite alot of instructing. So is he a legit captain? almost certainly not.

HOWEVER!

If you think that's bad, you should have seen some of the muppets walking around ptc with 4 bars on their shoulders. Guys with zero airline experience, zero instructor rating/experience, being dressed up and referred to as captains. Basically Edgeworth was using ex students that didnt make it into airlines and making them ground instructors (cheap labour). Stick 4 bars on their shoulders, tag them on facebook as "Captain xxx", and voila, watch the 85k cheques come flying in.

Absolute conman.

LeftBase

McNulty737 wrote: »

Edgeworth flew corporate for a while, whether or not he was ever made captain i dont know, i would guess probably not. He also has done quite alot of instructing. So is he a legit captain? almost certainly not.

HOWEVER!

If you think that's bad, you should have seen some of the muppets walking around ptc with 4 bars on their shoulders. Guys with zero airline experience, zero instructor rating/experience, being dressed up and referred to as captains. Basically Edgeworth was using ex students that didnt make it into airlines and making them ground instructors (cheap labour). Stick 4 bars on their shoulders, tag them on facebook as "Captain xxx", and voila, watch the 85k cheques come flying in.

Absolute conman.

And their "flagship pilot" who I think was either CFI or CGI in Waterford was only in an airline for 8 years and was never a captain there...yet he wears 4 bars....and is called Capt xxx

McNulty737

LeftBase wrote: »

And their "flagship pilot" who I think was either CFI or CGI in Waterford was only in an airline for 8 years and was never a captain there...yet he wears 4 bars....and is called Capt xxx

Yeah, but to be fair, at least that twat flew an a330 for a few years. When you're sticking 4 bars on guys who have never been paid a penny to fly an airplane, and promoting them to "chief ground instructor"....well, speaks for itself really.

LeftBase

McNulty737 wrote: »

Yeah, but to be fair, at least that twat flew an a330 for a few years. When you're sticking 4 bars on guys who have never been paid a penny to fly an airplane, and promoting them to "chief ground instructor"....well, speaks for itself really.

I have it on fair authority that he didn't fly an a330 much more than a year...and a bulk of his hours were on the Fokker, before a short enough stint on the 737-500.

I know who you are talking about on the zero hour count.

G19911

http://life-as-a-pilot.blogspot.ie/2012/07/pilot-training-college-comes-to-end.html

Su Campu

I'm with Leftbase on this one. Yes it's **** what happened, but like an air accident, it could have been avoided if proper precautions had been adopted, such as eg. doing a proper walk around check on the aircraft (in this case PTC). As he said, the info's out there, but the only info they chose to read was the glossy brochure.

If you saw someone going over two a 3-card trick guy despite you having toldthat person he was a con man, would you feel the same for them as you do for the students? Or if they got a letter from a Nigerian prince?I think the personal abuse being thrown at Leftbase for stating the obvious is typical of the class of people we have that blame everyone else for everything but themselves. Pathetic.

But again for the record, I think it's an awful situation the students find themselves in, whomever's to blame, and I hope some precautions are put in place (apart from the obvious caveat emptor above) to ensure that this can't happen again.

troposphere

So are they here in the US on some educational visa? How long do they have before that expires now that the school closed?

LeftBase

troposphere wrote: »

So are they here in the US on some educational visa? How long do they have before that expires now that the school closed?

July 12th is the date being thrown around. They have 1 week after the course finishes to vacate the country it would seem. The 2nd most controversial march that day perhaps!

troposphere

Are they mostly using their parents money or did some bank help out with loans? I know a few years ago here in the US one of the loan companies ending up settling with flight school students.

TALLAHASSEE, FL –Attorney General Bill McCollum today announced that Florida and 11 other states have obtained a settlement with a private student loan provider, resolving an 18-month multistate investigation. Student Loan Xpress, a subsidiary of CIT Group, total of $112.7 million in debt for students who obtained non-government guaranteed educational loans to attend a now-bankrupt helicopter training school, Silver State Helicopters, LLC. Florida was the lead state in the investigation and settlement negotiations; Florida victims will be entitled to over $17 million in student loan forgiveness.

“This is an excellent resolution for those students whose dreams of flying were grounded, but who were still stuck with student loans to pay back,” said Attorney General Bill McCollum.

Silver State Helicopters began operating in 2002 as a small helicopter pilot training school and ultimately operated 34 flight schools throughout the country. For at least two years, Student Loan Xpress served as the preferred student lender for Silver State Helicopters, providing approximately $172 million to over 2,800 students nationwide. Records showed that only a small percentage of students graduated and drop-out rates were exceptionally high.

By 2008, Silver State Helicopters had discontinued operations entirely and had filed for bankruptcy. Most students were left owing Student Loan Xpress a substantial amount of debt for training and certifications they never received. The Florida Attorney General’s Office received over 300 complaints about the school’s bankruptcy and the student loans still owed. Silver State had school locations in Jacksonville, Ft. Lauderdale, Lakeland, and Melbourne with at least 375 Florida students.

The settlement requires Student Loan Xpress forgive up to 75 percent of the total amount borrowed by the majority of Silver State Helicopters students as part of its resolution of a pending class action. The percentage of loan forgiveness will vary based upon the number of flight certifications each student obtained.

In addition to the loan forgiveness, the agreement includes several terms of injunctive relief which will preclude Student Loan Xpress from providing negative information to any credit reporting agencies about settling students who failed to make payments on their loans prior to the settlement.. Further, in the future, where Student Loan Xpress acts as the exclusive private loan provider to students of a private post-secondary, trade or vocational institution not certified or accredited by state or federal authorities, the company must provide written disclosures to each prospective student-borrower stating the loans do not constitute an endorsement of the school, its principals, or the quality of education or training offered.

The related national private class action settlement was also today filed in Federal court in Florida. The settlement and benefits provided are available generally to students who were attending Silver State as of the date of its closure, February 4, 2008.

Delancey

Has ' Captain ' Edgeworth ever posted in this forum does anyone know ?

Cessna_Pilot

G19911 wrote: »

http://life-as-a-pilot.blogspot.ie/2012/07/pilot-training-college-comes-to-end.html

"mixed with other students and enjoyed the kudos that came with walking around in a pilot's uniform"


Sums a PTC student up in one sentence.

jmayo

LeftBase wrote: »

No I didnt post on RTE I just read the comments. That does look like I wrote it but hand on heart it isnt me!:pac:

Speaking of RTE how come this was the lead story on Monring ireland news at 8 and 8.30 ?

Why has this story being pushed so much by RTE ?
Am I being cynical in thinking someone who ahs top RTE news room connections has gotten burnt by PTC ?

The other interesting thing I would like answered as an Irish taxpayer is why Entrerprise Ireland pumped so much money into an organisation with such questionable reputation ?

Come on lets get an answer on that ?
Did someone in Enterprise Ireland get a few free lessons thrown in ?

pclancy wrote: »

Would appreciate it if people would calm the emotions and refrain from insulting each other. You have no idea who people are or what their connection is to this collapse so some empathy for their plight would be nice. If you get annoyed take a break and rethink your point, severl posts before this were infringable.

Hindsight's a great thing, sadly when chasing the dream of being a pilot its easy get sucked into a scheme like this

Sorry I know you are mod, but I hate this cr** about "hindsight is a great thing".

This is always being uttered as some form of cop out for people who don't do enough research or are totally gullible and end up spending and loosing huge amounts of money.
Those that warn about probable impending problems and past quesitonable history are usually ignored and even disaparaged to the point of insult.
Then when their original warnings come to pass they are further insulted by claims that they got lucky and hindsight is great.

It is the very same thing being uttered by the people who blew huge amounts of money on idiotic property bets.

troposphere wrote: »

So are they here in the US on some educational visa? How long do they have before that expires now that the school closed?

You have to have a visa to engage in flight training in the US.
Hour building or leisure flying no AFAIK.
Just thank Mr Atta.

jmayo

Just to further show how someone with a little bit of research could have avoided ending up out of pocket with PTC by believing the hype and bull that PTC had been caught spinning.
Basically the ASA found that PTC were making up cr**.
BTW this happened in Oct 2010, not last week or 12 months ago when I presume some of the current students signed up.

ASA Adjudication on The Pilot Training College
The Pilot Training College
Waterford Training Centre
Waterford Airport, Boeing Avenue
Killowen
County Waterford
Ireland

Date:
6 October 2010

Number of complaints:
2
Complaint Ref:
130693

Ad
An advertorial in an aviation magazine was headlined "THE PILOT TRAINING COLLEGE PATHWAY TO A BRIGHT NEW CAREER". Text underneath stated "As the economy gathers momentum, it has never been more critical to ensure your investment in a career in commercial aviation is made with the right training organisation. Captain Mike Edgeworth, PTC's Group Executive Chairman, spoke to us about what makes PTC one of the leading suppliers of commercial pilots to the major airlines like Emirates, Flybe, Virgin, Qantas and Ryanair".

Text under the heading "HOW HAS THE RECESSION AFFECTED THE AVIATION INDUSTRY?" stated "Not only has the number of jobs in aviation remained fairly constant, the downturn is in fact masking an imminent and serious pilot shortage in the industry, due to increased retirement rates and expansion in areas like the Middle and Far East. Industry projections forecast a need for over 18,000 pilots per year for the next 20 years, with over 3300 annually in Europe alone".

Further text under the heading "LEARNING TO FLY CAN BE COSTLY!" stated "... crucially, the cost is more than made up for by the average salary post-graduation; as a group, pilots are the fifth-highest earners in the UK. As a guide, training to become an airline pilot will cost less that one yearis [sic] salary for a Captain, which is a level reached by most graduates within five years of graduation during a career that should last 35 years".

Issue
A pilot and a trainee pilot challenged whether the following claims were misleading and could be substantiated:

1. that PTC were "one of the leading suppliers of commercial pilots to the major airlines like Emirates, Flybe, Virgin, Qantas and Ryanair";

2. "As a guide, training to become an airline pilot will cost less that one yearis [sic] salary for a Captain, which is a level reached by most graduates within five years of graduation";

3. "Not only has the number of jobs remained fairly constant, the downturn is in fact masking an imminent and serious pilot shortage in the industry, due to increased retirement rates and expansion in areas like the Middle and Far East".

Assessment
1. Upheld

The ASA considered that the claim "one of the leading suppliers of commercial pilots to the major airlines like Emirates, Flybe, Virgin, Qantas and Ryanair" would be understood by readers to mean that each of the listed companies recruited a significant proportion of new pilots from the PTC. While we welcomed the PTCs acknowledgement that the claim was inaccurate and that they had now withdrawn it, we considered that PTC should have taken greater care to ensure the accuracy of the claim. Because we understood that the claim could not be substantiated, we concluded that it was misleading.

2. Upheld

We noted that the documentation from the ONS showed that the mean salary for an airline pilot in 2009 was over £70,000, and we understood that PTCs training programme cost around £66,000. However, we also noted that we had not seen evidence that demonstrated that the rank of Captain was achieved by most graduates within five years, and we therefore concluded that the claim was misleading.

3. Upheld

We considered that the claims that there was an "imminent and serious pilot shortage" and that "Already, PTC graduates are benefitting, with over 70% employed as professional pilots since graduation with industry leading airlines", conveyed a sense of urgency and suggested that the need for pilots was immediate. We noted that the ad explained that that was due to increased retirement rates and airline expansion in the Middle and Far East, but we also noted we had not seen evidence to demonstrate that.

We noted that the PTC referred to various independent industry reports that they believed showed that there would be a worldwide demand for 300,000 extra pilots over the next 20 years, as well as the order projections from Boeing. However, we also noted that we had not seen those reports, and we considered that forecast demand for pilots over such a time period would not in itself show that there was an immediate demand that was not being met, nor did we consider that a projected increase in orders for one aircraft manufacturer over a twenty-year period was sufficient to demonstrate an imminent and serious shortage of pilots.

Because we had not seen evidence that the supply of jobs for pilots had remained constant throughout the downturn or that showed that there was an imminent and serious shortage of pilots, we concluded that the claim was misleading.

The ad breached CAP Code clauses 3.1 (Substantiation) and 7.1 (Truthfulness).

LeftBase

troposphere wrote: »

Are they mostly using their parents money or did some bank help out with loans? I know a few years ago here in the US one of the loan companies ending up settling with flight school students.

A lot of them would be bank loans I would imagine from the stories that have been coming out of there. This loan company settling with the students of that other school is great and would be great in this situation...however these are cash strapped Irish banks that don't have 2 pennies to rub together at the best of times. I'd imagine some of them have multiple exposures to students and may even stand to lose a few million out of it. I think AIB and PTC had a scheme together that allowed students to get finance from AIB easier. We all know that our banks need money and so I dont think any settlement would cut the students debts by too much. Even if they were nice and halfed the debt, a 40k debt with no job is still pretty crap! The students need to band together and make themselves a force, because the bank and FIT will be 1st in line for paying!
Good look to anyone trying to borrow in future for pilot training anyhow!:(

On the issue of the Visa. A US student Visa allows you residency in the US and the right to train in whatever field you are in as long as you have documents from the course provider and all is above board. Once the course has ended you must leave the country within a week, however you can apply for a 90 day extension if you are from a visa waiver country(all EU and non-Iran types countries). That is a holiday visa and means you can do a bit of travelling as some students do. One of my siblings studied a year at Boston College so this is the brief he gave me on it when I asked him.
There have been incidents in the past where at student has finished a course and blew so much money on drink etc that they cannot afford a ticket home. In that case they have to present themselves at a police station and they will be deported with a stern handshake. When you enter the US on any Visa it is on condition that you have in your possession or have the financial means to purchase a return ticket. The issue for a lot of these PTC guys seems to be that they don't have the means to purchase a return ticket. That if it stays unresolved will mean deportation as it violates their Visa(eventhough it isnt their fault), and even if that deportation is done willingly it still goes on your record as being deported from the United States of America. How that looks on an airline CV(especially one that does TA ops) is up to the airlines. I do know that students that travel there are warned that deportation in any form means possible barring from entry into the States in future.
The law has no grey on the States. It's very black and white and in case like this is very unfair.

saspeir

jmayo wrote: »

Speaking of RTE how come this was the lead story on Monring ireland news at 8 and 8.30 ?

Why has this story being pushed so much by RTE ?
Am I being cynical in thinking someone who ahs top RTE news room connections has gotten burnt by PTC ?

I was thinking the same... It is surprising to see it get so much air time. I don't think TV3 are even reporting it...

The other interesting thing I would like answered as an Irish taxpayer is why Entrerprise Ireland pumped so much money into an organisation with such questionable reputation ?

Come on lets get an answer on that ?
Did someone in Enterprise Ireland get a few free lessons thrown in ?

I'd like to know more about the relationship with Waterford Institute of Technology also. That's two State organisations giving this outfit an air of respectability. In doing research for a course I was looking to buy I called WIT and made enquiries. From what I gathered PTC only rent rooms at the college and course is not accredited by WIT yet PTC make out as though it's a fully fledged college course online.

Sorry I know you are mod, but I hate this cr** about "hindsight is a great thing".

This is always being uttered as some form of cop out for people who don't do enough research or are totally gullible and end up spending and loosing huge amounts of money.
Those that warn about probable impending problems and past quesitonable history are usually ignored and even disaparaged to the point of insult.
Then when their original warnings come to pass they are further insulted by claims that they got lucky and hindsight is great.

It is the very same thing being uttered by the people who blew huge amounts of money on idiotic property bets.

I disagree. There's an element in this thread of really rubbing it in 'I told ya so' s*ite. It's like a man at a funeral of someone that jumped Niagra Falls going around telling everyone with a smile on his face saying 'I told the fecker if he jumped it he'd die...' Stating the obvious really...

I researched PTC for one of my courses. I asked two questions of them: 1) Could I pay in installments? Answer was No
2) Where would I stand if the school went bust? I was told the school wouldn't go bust.

The answer to the two questions wasn't what I wanted so I didn't buy. The second question especially got to me 'cause they didn't answer my question. I didn't buy. End of. I don't go on here shouting to the rafters about it. I think it's been quite obvious for a time that this was going to happen though...

Delancey

I share the suspicion that someone in RTE is keeping this story alive ( probably a freind or relative of someone who got burned ). RTE have reported that Enterprise Ireland blew 400,000 of tax payers money on shares in PTC - kiss goodbye to that .

Years ago I considered a career as a pilot - I went to the medical and the Dr. turned out to be a former airline pilot ( gave up commercial flying due to a chronic medical condidtion ).
I remember his wise words : '' when a flying school tell you how quickly they will get you into an airline job and how there is such a shortage of pilots , etc , then it's time to walk away. When a flying school tell you how hard it is and that after shelling out your hard-earned cash you will struggle to find any sort of paid work , when you do work you will be paid crap money and treated crap and will wait years for a chance with the airlines then you know thats the school to go with ''

Pilotdude5

LeftBase wrote: »

A lot of them would be bank loans I would imagine from the stories that have been coming out of there. This loan company settling with the students of that other school is great and would be great in this situation...however these are cash strapped Irish banks that don't have 2 pennies to rub together at the best of times. I'd imagine some of them have multiple exposures to students and may even stand to lose a few million out of it. I think AIB and PTC had a scheme together that allowed students to get finance from AIB easier. We all know that our banks need money and so I dont think any settlement would cut the students debts by too much. Even if they were nice and halfed the debt, a 40k debt with no job is still pretty crap! The students need to band together and make themselves a force, because the bank and FIT will be 1st in line for paying!
Good look to anyone trying to borrow in future for pilot training anyhow!:(

Even though its a horrible situation to be in, if any of them get loans halved I would be the first to set up a new "occupy movement" outside the bank:pac:

I worked hard since I was 17, went the modular route and funded the PPL, ATPL's, Hourbuilding and half the MEP/CPL myself. I took out a student loan from AIB to finish the CPL and MEIR. My loan won't be written off, in fact the interest rate climbed ever so slightly lately:mad:

saspeir

It can't be written down, not the amounts involved here. I'd imagine you'd be looking at the new insolvency package being brought forward by the gov. But that means very strict conditions for 2 years I think (you effectively go bankrupt) and it comes after all other options have been exhausted. So, if you have re-mortgaged and can pay, you will have to pay... I can't see any other way around it unless you get some proceeds from the sale of assets, which for flight schools rarely covers anything more than the administrators fees.

bluecode

I don't know if someone in RTE has a personal involvement. It could simply be that someone there is well informed and interested. After all interest in aviation is not the sole province of aerosexuals and pilots.

It is a newsworthy item. A lot of people lost a lot of money in this. They won't be getting it back either, at least not all of it. Clearly FIT were not being paid, that's why the pulled the plug. Wasn't there a previous issue with another Florida provider with PTC?

I can see the operation either going into receivership or liquidated. The only chance for it is that a real businessman moves in and buys it for a Euro.

If there's a silver lining then potential pilots will see the pitfalls. But it was all too obvious this was on the cards for a long time.

coylemj

jmayo wrote: »

Speaking of RTE how come this was the lead story on Monring ireland news at 8 and 8.30 ?

Why has this story being pushed so much by RTE ?
Am I being cynical in thinking someone who ahs top RTE news room connections has gotten burnt by PTC ?

saspeir wrote: »

I was thinking the same... It is surprising to see it get so much air time. I don't think TV3 are even reporting it...

Delancey wrote: »

I share the suspicion that someone in RTE is keeping this story alive ( probably a friend or relative of someone who got burned ).'

Let's just turn the clock back to July 4th for a moment. PTC got their retaliation in first by saying they had terminated the contract with the Florida school because the training services were not being delivered 'in a professional and timely manner'

Both the Irish Times and RTE reported the story as if the fault lay entirely with the Florida gang but of course being July 4th with everyone in the US away for the day, they couldn't get a response from the other side so they took the PTC press release at face value and included that quote and others from PTC in their news reports. They now realise the PTC spin was grossly misleading.

Now that they know they were had, it's payback time. That's why it's getting such mileage in the media. So instead of inventing conspiracy theories I think RTE deserve praise for sticking the boot in where it's deserved.

jmayo

coylemj wrote: »

Let's just turn the clock back to July 4th for a moment. PTC got their retaliation in first by saying they had terminated the contract with the Florida school because the training services were not being delivered 'in a professional and timely manner'

Both the Irish Times and RTE reported the story as if the fault lay entirely with the Florida gang but of course being July 4th with everyone in the US away for the day, they couldn't get a response from the other side so they took the PTC press release at face value and included that quote and others from PTC in their news reports. They now realise the PTC spin was grossly misleading.

All that shows is how lazy the journalists in two of our supposed best media outlets in this country are.
Anyone who did a bit of research on PTC would have found their questionable track record, particularly how the ASA had rapped them on the knuckles for theri stretching of the truth.

That should have raised concerns and should have at least prevented them from just reguriating a press release.

coylemj wrote: »

Now that they know they were had, it's payback time. That's why it's getting such mileage in the media. So instead of inventing conspiracy theories I think RTE deserve praise for sticking the boot in where it's deserved.

Yeah right.
Ehh why was the Enterprise Ireland investment the lead story on the Radio news this morning ?
It's not as if our state agencies haven't blown wads of cash before.
There is something fishy going on and it is pretty obvious over the last few years when RTE make concerted efforts to push a story.

Cessna_Pilot

Remember back I guess 6 months ago, TV3 had a highly decorated, as I would call him, student on their morning show selling the dream and ranting and raving about how great he and PTC were? Martin and that other yoke oogling over him and believing every word that fell out of his mouth.

That's probably why there's nothing on their news about it whatsoever:rolleyes:

coylemj

jmayo wrote: »

All that shows is how lazy the journalists in two of our supposed best media outlets in this country are.

I agree with the 'lazy journalists' line, they should not have printed the story without a response from Florida but the nature of the media in Ireland and in most countries is that if one media body reports the story, everyone else has to row in as well.

jmayo wrote: »

Yeah right.
Ehh why was the Enterprise Ireland investment the lead story on the Radio news this morning ?

It's another angle on the story, gives them an excuse to keep it running as a news story, otherwise they'd have to drop it.

Like I said, it's payback time. I'd say RTE will keep it running for as long as they can to make an example of PTC and discourage others from hijacking the news media for the purposes of spin.

saspeir

coylemj wrote: »

Now that they know they were had, it's payback time. That's why it's getting such mileage in the media. So instead of inventing conspiracy theories I think RTE deserve praise for sticking the boot in where it's deserved.

'Payback time'? Come on...

Sounds a bit Fr. Reyoldish to me...

I'd say it's a bit of slow news, mixed with the drama and sob of young people getting screwed over and left abroad and maybe a popular interest story too. Aren't we all talking about it?

I don't think the BBC would have a popular interest story on top anyways. I wouldn't think Cabair got top spot. It should be reported but not like it is. Sure Ulster Bank is still ongoing (people not getting paid, credit ratings at risk, lack of accountability etc. etc.) and this tops that... Weird...

Jumboman

Cessna_Pilot wrote: »

Remember back I guess 6 months ago, TV3 had a highly decorated, as I would call him, student on their morning show selling the dream and ranting and raving about how great he and PTC were? Martin and that other yoke oogling over him and believing every word that fell out of his mouth.

That's probably why there's nothing on their news about it whatsoever:rolleyes:

I think this is the interview your referring to.

http://www.tv3.ie/videos.php?video=29834&locID=1.65.74&page=1