Are we getting soft.

BennyMul

I was out with a group on Sunday for a spin this was a mix of triathletes and cyclists, and going up one small drag, a few riders went out the back; so once over the crest of the hill I turned around and cycled back down to meet them, only to find them “suffering” on the hill but yet they could hold a perfect conversation and were having a good chat, I got them to sit on the wheel and paced them back, the next small hill the same thing, after the third time I gave up.
(these were not hard hills only a drag on a main road)

After following the threads on Science\lack of and tools gadgets etc. I was wondering is it as simple as we have gotten soft and do not know how to truly suffer?

I read an article from Sean Kelly who said "cycling was 30% physical and 70% mental" the mental been the ability to suffer more than your competitor.
in triathlon which is more important, genetics or mental attitude,

peter kern

its an intersting question when you see that 2 of the top 5 at last weeks nationals are vets.

Bambaata

its a mix of both really. I know i dont suffer well all the time. Only a few times have i truely experienced the goosebumps, eye-balls popping out of my head and on the limit in a race and those times i think i was suffering well. Its one thing suffering in races but in training is whole other issue. I would guess that 95% or more of people doing their "max" are not really doing their max in sessions where max is called for. I know for instance that if im in a bad mood and stressed my ability to suffer is woeful. Whereas if im happy in my daily life and stress free i can suffer with the best, unfortunately that doesn't happen enough. To truly develop you have to suffer and roll with it but its easier said than done (particularly alone!)

Nwm2

BennyMul wrote: »

I was out with a group on Sunday for a spin this was a mix of triathletes and cyclists, and going up one small drag, a few riders went out the back; so once over the crest of the hill I turned around and cycled back down to meet them, only to find them “suffering” on the hill but yet they could hold a perfect conversation and were having a good chat, I got them to sit on the wheel and paced them back, the next small hill the same thing, after the third time I gave up.
(these were not hard hills only a drag on a main road)

This is why I rarely go on triathlete group cycles, too much of a spread in abilities and too much of a spread in what people are looking for out of the cycle ('can we keep it under 30kph, I'm IM training').

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

I love a bit of suffering both racing and in training. I can go a bit OTT at times and on a few occasions particularly around FTP testing on the turbo when i felt close to collapsing at the end of it:rolleyes: You cannot beat when you are in that moment, only happens a few times over the season.

I agree that the mental side has a huge part to play. Group sessions always seem a bit soft to me and you do not get the full training benefit from it. Either train with like minded people or train solo.

griffin100

I suppose it depends on what you want from your training. If you are training to win races or race hard, eg JB or Bambatta, then you have to learn to suffer when doing both.

For me tri is a hobby designed to keep me less fat than I would normally be and whilst I like the suffering you get from a steep hill climb on the bike or a run speed session tbh I don't push myself anywhere near as hard as I should or could, just look at my effort in Conn this year

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

peter kern wrote: »

its an intersting question when you see that 2 of the top 5 at last weeks nationals are vets.

Do you mean old school are not as soft, can suffer more?

peter kern

Darian Defeated Lavatory wrote: »

peter kern wrote: »

its an intersting question when you see that 2 of the top 5 at last weeks nationals are vets.

Do you mean old school are not as soft, can suffer more?

Iam sure I missed a few but trevor and paul wkere only outpained by bmc to
call trevor old school would be very wrong though

Bambaata

Darian Defeated Lavatory wrote: »

I can go a bit OTT at times and on a few occasions particularly around FTP testing on the turbo when i felt close to collapsing at the end of it:rolleyes:

I think that's how you're supposed to be though. Its a horrible test but the satisfaction of having it done is immense!

Briando

I can push my self till i vomit on the bike. Still pretty ****e though.

BennyMul

I find it so much easier to suffer in races, training on my own I find it very hard to push myself continuously in training, but the fitter I am the easier it is to push my body.

Trig1

I train on my own the whole time and constantly race against the clock, I can't go "easy", I am very disappointed if I come back from a spin and my avg kph is less than 33kph, on saying that I would love to get in with a few group cycles but work shift work and usually do my cycles weekdays around 12 (when kids are in bed), I dont do ftp or stats or anything, I'm a grinder and just try going hard the whole time in hard gears- probably wrong but thats how I do it

Peterx

Yes we are getting softer and I occasionally thank my lucky stars I was born into the luxury of a first world country with weekends off, evenings off, reliable infrastructure and all that entails.
There's nothing romantic about working 16 hour days 7 days a week down the mines and thank Grud I don't!

Of course we are softer!
I got a blister the other evening mowing the grass, as an apprentice I had gnarly unblisterable skin from all the work, thank Grud those days are gone.

The competitive spirit however is quite another thing.

The mighty Sean Kelly never did a "good" (relative to his 6 year world number 1 status) lab test. He could never see the point unless it was a race. Where he was savage.

For me the more and more I race the less and less I can be enticed into half wheeling and pushing against other lads on training spins, seriously - who would I be kidding?
As one of the doughty ould lads down at the running club training is wont to say "no-one wins medals at a Tuesday interval session"

BennyMul

Peterx wrote: »

Yes we are getting softer and I occasionally thank my lucky stars I was born into the luxury of a first world country with weekends off, evenings off, reliable infrastructure and all that entails.
There's nothing romantic about working 16 hour days 7 days a week down the mines and thank Grud I don't!

Of course we are softer!
I got a blister the other evening mowing the grass, as an apprentice I had gnarly unblisterable skin from all the work, thank Grud those days are gone.

The competitive spirit however is quite another thing.

The mighty Sean Kelly never did a "good" (relative to his 6 year world number 1 status) lab test. He could never see the point unless it was a race. Where he was savage.

For me the more and more I race the less and less I can be enticed into half wheeling and pushing against other lads on training spins, seriously - who would I be kidding?
As one of the doughty ould lads down at the running club training is wont to say "no-one wins medals at a Tuesday interval session"

I believe Mark Cavendish was almost not selcted for a pro team as his FTP test scores were not good enough, :eek: ( i think he has won a few races since then)