states

tommyboy26

I have a relation going to the states next week. im just wondering what the craic is with them bringin parts back with them? ie triggers

TB26

hedzball

Trigger is classed as part of a firearm here..

Id reckon your cousin would get done for having an unlicensed firearm I'd say
















'hdz

Mike87

hedzball wrote: »

Trigger is classed as part of a firearm here..

Id reckon your cousin would get done for having an unlicensed firearm I'd say

Maybe they could post it back to an RFD maybe...?? (minus the boxes/manuals/wrapping to save on tax).

gunhappy_ie

The legal side of things from Brownells website on international shipping:

Part 1: General Information, International

There are a number of items which Brownells sells which need US State Department approval and an export license before they can be shipped out of the country. The regulations are complex and constantly changing but our staff is here to help you understand what is needed and will gladly work with you to correctly accomplish the task.

Generally speaking, items which usually need a license are:

Frames
Receivers
Barrels
Barrel Liners
Various other gun parts such as triggers, sears, ejectors, magazine tubes, scopes, and other items if the ordered amount is over $100.00 US.

Licenses from the US State Department take time to receive. You will need a DSP-83 form from the US State Department for regulated items. It can easily take 30-60 days to obtain an export license, so plan ahead accordingly. Many other countries also require the buyer to apply for and receive an import permit or certificate in order to be able to import a licensed item into their country; so again, you will have to be aware of what the laws are for your country.

More can be found on: Brownells international shipping

GH

BattleCorp

Whatever about you bringing stuff home from the States, somebody with no licence could "get done" for possession of an illegal firearm.

Parts of firearms are classed as firearms here


Not worth the possibility probability of your cousin being in serious bother if caught.


I know it's frustrating because the stuff over there is so cheap compared to here but that's just the world we live in.

Grizzly 45

If it is just the one part,and under 100 dollars tell him to mail it to you.
Your liscense is your permit to own the part and import it as well.

Cass

hedzball wrote: »

Trigger is classed as part of a firearm here..

Id reckon your cousin would get done for having an unlicensed firearm I'd say

BattleCorp wrote: »

........ somebody with no licence could "get done" for possession of an illegal firearm.............

More likely to be done for illegal importation of component parts of a firearm.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Your liscense is your permit to own the part and import it as well.

No it's not. Your license is your authorisation own your firearm. Any other part must have the proper importation documents, and be imported through the correct channels.

Under NO circumstances import any component part without the necessary documentation. DO NOT get a family member to throw any part into their case, and bring it in. (irrespective of whether they have a firearms license or not).

Grizzly 45

Sorry EZ I beg to differ!!! That is from the DOJ we DO NOT have a import cert paperwork with the US.It is one of the standard problems with importing full functional firearms on a personal basis..The US state Dept will now accept that the Irish liscense is also your permit to import the gun to the ROI.Now unless this has changed within the last 12 months......???
Also as pointed out in the post from brownells,if the part or order is under 100usd in value it can be shipped outside CONUS
Also it is accepted that if you are liscensed to own the firearm,you are also entitled to own the spare ,replacement or component parts thereof and import them.

FISMA

tommyboy26 wrote: »

I have a relation going to the states next week. im just wondering what the craic is with them bringin parts back with them? ie triggers

TB26

TB26,
What gun are the parts for?

Parts can be tricky. From what I remember from the TSA, any gun part has to be treated as a firearm: hard cased and declared.

Once I brought back some sights, plain old simple sights and had to declare. They just looked, nodded, and walked away. I really didn't have to fill out any paperwork (that little orange tag) but asked politely that they did anyhow, just to be safe.

Some parts I would just put in to the case: scope, rings, mounts, bag, sling. However, if it is a part that the firearm requires for function: slide, pin, bolt, or the like, better to be safe than sorry.

PM more with other specifics as I have done this a few times.

Chiparus

If you have a license for a particular firearm, how can you get done for importing a component of same firearm ?

Cass

Section one of the firearms act describes a firearm as "any component part".

“firearm” means—
(a) a lethal firearm or other lethal weapon of any description from which any shot, bullet or other missile can be discharged,
(b) an air gun (including an air rifle and air pistol) with a muzzle energy greater than one joule or any other weapon incorporating a barrel from which any projectile can be discharged with such a muzzle energy,
(c) a crossbow,
(d) any type of stun gun or other weapon for causing any shock or other disablement to a person by means of electricity or any other kind of energy emission,
(e) a prohibited weapon,
(f) any article which would be a firearm under any of the foregoing paragraphs but for the fact that, owing to the lack of a necessary component part or parts, or to any other defect or condition, it is incapable of discharging a shot, bullet or other missile or projectile or of causing a shock or other disablement, as the case may be,
(g) except where the context otherwise requires, any component part of any article referred to in any of the foregoing paragraphs and, without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing, the following articles shall be deemed to be such component parts:
...

Not essential, not named parts, but ANY component part. This vagueness in it's description means that even screws, bolts, stocks, etc fall under this category.

Also if we take it that a trigger does not need an import license even though it is a component part then the same could be applied to a barrel, action, etc. All of which i know need import documents to bring into the country.

Lastly while i am by no means ell versed in import/export law i will say this much. I have seen on Brownel's, Sinclair's, MidwayUSA's, etc website that they will ship to most countries, but there is a small disclaimer saying that while the items may be shipped out of the states that each individual country has it's own set of laws, and these laws should be known, and followed.

IOW if the company will ship the item out does not mean you can just buy/bring it in.


As said i'm not expert, and if you want to chance it well frankly i cannot stop you. What i am saying is do nothing unless 100% certain that it's legal. The law does not allow for "i didn't know" as an excuse. Any the penalties, other than possible fines/imprisonment, could also include the loss of all existing firearms. This is not a scare tactic merely a cautionary note. Be sure, check twice then act.

Grizzly 45

Ok,there is a very simple way of sorting this out..
IF there is a requirement for documentation to import non critical parts [IE springs,stocks, pins,mags,triggers,sears and related ] from the United States to Ireland on a private individual basis by a liscensed firearm holder for their particular model then there has to be a corrosponding Govt form and procedure.Stands to reason there would be.

Can anyone post up the document reference number or a scan of it,and an explanation of the procedure of application to which dept of the DOJ/AGS to do so???

dax121

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Sorry EZ I beg to differ!!! That is from the DOJ we DO NOT have a import cert paperwork with the US.It is one of the standard problems with importing full functional firearms on a personal basis..The US state Dept will now accept that the Irish liscense is also your permit to import the gun to the ROI.Now unless this has changed within the last 12 months......???
Also as pointed out in the post from brownells,if the part or order is under 100usd in value it can be shipped outside CONUS
Also it is accepted that if you are liscensed to own the firearm,you are also entitled to own the spare ,replacement or component parts thereof and import them.

i would have to agree with grizzly on this one.i filled out all the paper work for a import cert to get a vq bolt from the states as i had someone their on hols. i got a e mail back saying " an import licence is not needed for an individual with a firearms certificate importing from an non EU country in the first instance. when importing replacement parts for the gun, all that is required is a firearms cert"
i ended up not buying it in the states as i didnt want to post it with out paper work. i also didnt want my friend to bring it unto the plane with them as i didnt know how airport security would react.
since then i e mailed airport security at the said airport and i was told once their is no recievers or ammo in the checked bags its fine. just to declare it and the items will be inspected and cleared to be put on the plane.

Cass

As always i am ever open to correction.

If lads have previously imported firearm components without import paperwork, and done so within the full confines of the law then i will stand as corrected.

tommyboy26

Thanks for all the replies lads. havin thought about it alot i think i will leave it. its just not worth the risk.

TB26

Glensman

dax121 wrote: »

i would have to agree with grizzly on this one.i filled out all the paper work for a import cert to get a vq bolt from the states as i had someone their on hols. i got a e mail back saying " an import licence is not needed for an individual with a firearms certificate importing from an non EU country in the first instance. when importing replacement parts for the gun, all that is required is a firearms cert"
i ended up not buying it in the states as i didnt want to post it with out paper work. i also didnt want my friend to bring it unto the plane with them as i didnt know how airport security would react.
since then i e mailed airport security at the said airport and i was told once their is no recievers or ammo in the checked bags its fine. just to declare it and the items will be inspected and cleared to be put on the plane.

So lets say a barrel for a 10/22?

They aren't serial numbered and I am licensed for a 10/22...

Can I just put it in my luggage? or do I need paperwork?

dax121

i would contact the airport that ur flying out from and see what they say. i never asked about barrels but was told just no recievers or ammo.
also contact the doj and see what they say. but if u do need a import licence on this side you can do that urself and have it back in about a week.

juice1304

In america the only part of a firearm considered a firearm is the receiver so i would'nt see any problem on their side.

dax121

juice1304 wrote: »

In america the only part of a firearm considered a firearm is the receiver so i would'nt see any problem on their side.

yes ur right but wouldnt hurt to e mail airport security and make sure you can carry that in ur checked in luggage.

tac foley

I guess the RoI is different - again - but in the rest of Europe a rifled and chambered barrel is considered to be 'an intrinsic and pressure-bearing component of any firearm' and is required to be imported via an authorised firearms dealer.

Whinemeal, I've called a friend of mine who is a lawyer in TX specialising in firearms related matters since 1976, asking about the legal status of the purchaser who might be a furriner.

tac

Cass

Okay, this is doing my head in. Just cannot get my head around what is being said as it would seem to fly in the face of just about every other law in the country.

What people are saying is that if you want to bring in gun parts (a firearm under irish law) from the US you DO NOT need to import them. For example;

dax121 wrote: »

.................i got a e mail back saying " an import licence is not needed for an individual with a firearms certificate importing from an non EU country in the first instance. when importing replacement parts for the gun, all that is required is a firearms cert"..............

So you don't need an import authorisation, just that you have a firearms license. So i order a replacement barrel, trigger, stock, etc, etc.

Also the point about not needing to import, but only form the US. Why is that we need an import authorisation from the EU (supposedly an open market), but not from the US.

Lastly because an export license is not needed on the other side of the pond does that negate the need to legally import the parts here? IOW because one country does not class them as firearms does that mean that an import is not needed even though they are classed as firearms here?

dax121

that is the response e mail from the doj and i never said anything about a barrel on the e mail. but i was on about a bolt for a 10/22 and i was told i didnt need a import licence.

Cass

I think i'm loosing context here so let me be clear.

I'm not challenging you or anyone else for that matter, I'm not saying i don't believe you. My post above is a set of genuine questions. I only quoted your post as you say you got a response from the DoJ (ergo - official) saying an import license is not needed when importing firearm parts from the US.

Also under the law a bolt, barrel, action, trigger, etc are all classed as component parts. However anyone wishes to rationalise the word component to make it fit is their business, but it basically means if you wanted a screw for a firearm you need to import it.

Again i'm asking questions because some have said they have brought in stuff without an import license or were informed they did not need one and i have serious trouble believing that the DoJ/An Gardaí, with all the laws we have restricting everything else to such a severe extent, would allow this "open" importation.

dax121

i can only speak from my experence and the e mail i got back from them. i didnt go thru with the import. i taught it was strange that someone could import parts like a bolt from the states without a import cert. but that was the reply i got back.

Grizzly 45

Ezridax wrote: »

What people are saying is that if you want to bring in gun parts (a firearm under irish law) from the US you DO NOT need to import them. For example;

BELIVE it...It is the facts EZ.I have done this for a firearm and for component parts,and got the same reply as the other posters here...:)

Also the point about not needing to import, but only form the US. Why is that we need an import authorisation from the EU (supposedly an open market), but not from the US.

Ah the EU...Not as free,equal and as jolly as we were led to belive ..:rolleyes::rolleyes:
I think you will have to ask that one off your MEP and all the many other anti private gun ownership MEPs of various red greenish hues who promote this kind of nonsense in Brussells European wide..In short it is EU law this one,not Irish law.

Lastly because an export license is not needed on the other side of the pond does that negate the need to legally import the parts here? IOW because one country does not class them as firearms does that mean that an import is not needed even though they are classed as firearms here?[/

Simply put..YES you dont need an import liscense if the firearm is liscensed to you..Its logical,if you are allowed to legally posses the gun,you are allowed to have spare parts for it.That is why I asked was there a Govt form to do this,as if there was a procedure there must be a form to fill out to do so...There isnt,or at least there isnt one..yet!
Its about the only SANE bit of legislation in the entire firearms laws debacle here.

juice1304

page 14 also defines what a firearm is in relation to it all

(g)Except where the context otherwise requires, any component part of any article referred to in any of the foregoing paragraphs and, without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing, the following articles shall be deemed to be such component parts:
(i)Telescope sights with a light beam, or telescope sights with an electronic light amplification device or an infra-red device, designed to be fitted to a firearm specified in paragraph (a), (b), (c) or (e),
(ii)A silencer designed to be fitted to a firearm specified in paragraph (a), (b) or (e), and
14
(iii)Any object:
(I)Manufactured for use as a component in connection with the operation of a firearm, and
(II)Without which it could not function as originally designed,

Cass

As said above i am not challenging anyone or even saying i don't believe ye. I simply don't believe that the situation exists where (barring the receiver) you can import firearm components without a license.

Genuinely surprised.

juice1304

the thing is though if it's value is worth more than $100 dollars you then need an export licence and that can take a few weeks, So unless you buy the barrel really cheap in a sale you would be braking the law.:D

Grizzly 45

tac foley wrote: »

I guess the RoI is different - again - but in the rest of Europe a rifled and chambered barrel is considered to be 'an intrinsic and pressure-bearing component of any firearm' and is required to be imported via an authorised firearms dealer.

Whinemeal, I've called a friend of mine who is a lawyer in TX specialising in firearms related matters since 1976, asking about the legal status of the purchaser who might be a furriner.

tac

Very true,technically it would be questionable legality could you sell the spare barrel,or even fire it unless it has been proof marked and proof shot here in the EU??

Simple answer to wether you can buy a gun in the US as a non national.If you think you can walk in, plonk down your dollars and an Irish ID and walk out again with what your heart desires,answer NO!!
Fact is,you cant even do this as a US citizen either,if you are purchasing away from your home state. IOW a Californian cant hop over the state line to Arizona and buy a gun and walk out with it and go home to Cali. This is where the interstate transactions of Federal Firearms Liscenses [FFL ] comes into play.Buy the gun in AZ,it is sent to your local dealer in CA where you collect it,subject to whatever the local,and state law is on owning the type of firearm you bought.
You need to be a resident of whatever state you want to buy a firearm in for either 60 or 90 days,and have State ID [drivers liscense]and some utility bills to prove your residency,if you are a non national,they will want to see the green card,or whatever visa entitles you to be there that long.

Can you buy parts and ship out of the CONUS as a non national??

DEPENDS.On what it is,there is a whole gamut of non exportable outright still classified as military or dual use equipment out there.Hence,you are better off dealing with some company like Brownells,or Gunparts Inc,as they ship internationally and have the experiance to tell you what can or cant be shipped that week.It can literally change that often.
Thanks to the UN and their ITAR regulations..Which is up for discussion again in that waste of the worlds taxpayers money and ginormus talk shop and financial drain in New York City.:mad:

Grizzly 45

juice1304 wrote: »

the thing is though if it's value is worth more than $100 dollars you then need an export licence and that can take a few weeks, So unless you buy the barrel really cheap in a sale you would be braking the law.:D

Dont forget ..That also includes in that 100 dollar limit the shipping and handling costs!!:eek::DSo it is going to have to be a mighty cheap barrel,as your shipping costs could run to 50/75% of the entire sale price to Europe..
Somhow I dont think many criminals or terrorists will be shopping to rebuild their guns from the US this way.:p
Should add the export liscense on this isnt really a biggie for the customer buying somthing,they have a turnaround of about 14/21 days,by LAW.It is a PITA for the dealer,and some wont do it because the cost on a single item doesnt justify it.

juice1304

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CGAQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.revenue.ie%2Fen%2Fabout%2Ffoi%2Fs16%2Fcustoms%2Fprohibitions-restrictions%2Fmanual-on-the-movement-of-firearms-%26-ammunition.pdf%3Fdownload%3Dtrue&ei=wST2T8ngLM6YhQf68cDpBg&usg=AFQjCNFeAdp1NyOZhv3Fm3Wt5rraIYqg3A