What happens if I strike oil / find artefacts on my own property?

Goafer

If, hypothetically I strike oil or find some Roman artefacts or gold / silver ... you name it, etc. on MYOWN property, does the government have the right to seize it from me ?? I mean when I bought my house, I was essentially buying everything that came with it, the grass it is on, the air surrounding it and the contents which may or may not be interred therein.

NoQuarter

Here's your answer:

http://www.bailii.org/ie/cases/IESC/1987/2.html

Farcear

If you don't want to read that judgment, short answer: Yes.



Longer answer:

Goafer wrote: »

If, hypothetically I strike oil or find some Roman artefacts or gold / silver ... you name it, etc. on MYOWN property, does the government have the right to seize it from me ??

The State owns it.

There is no issue of seizure. Neither you nor the person you bought the land from ever owned those natural resources.

I mean when I bought my house, I was essentially buying everything that came with it, the grass it is on, the air surrounding it and the contents which may or may not be interred therein.

No, that's just a misconception.

You bought the "space" but not the "air", ownership of that is retained by the State.

getz

Goafer wrote: »

If, hypothetically I strike oil or find some Roman artefacts or gold / silver ... you name it, etc. on MYOWN property, does the government have the right to seize it from me ?? I mean when I bought my house, I was essentially buying everything that came with it, the grass it is on, the air surrounding it and the contents which may or may not be interred therein.

tell you what,i will send you a ton of sand from blackpool beach,if you strike oil,tell them its english oil,not irish

chops018

Ah good old Treasure Trove: the main case would be (as NoQuarter linked you to above) Webb .v. Ireland (1988) - where a hoard was found that included a gold chalice. The plaintiffs were told by the museum that they would be "honourably treated" if they gave up the hoard. The case made its way to the Supreme Court after the museum didn't follow through. Finlay J. said that the plaintiffs did not have a prima facie title to the hoard. The landowners had a superior right, to which the State succeeded an agreement. The argument then came to whether the State had a prerogative right to Treasure Trove, as the defendant could claim title and the plaintiff a reward. Article 10 of the constitution (state dominion over mineral rights) was used to ground the defendants claim to title. However the plaintiffs were grounded to have a legitimate expectation to be honourably treated and had a right to an reward. As a result of this case section 2(1) of the National Monuments (Amendment) Act 1994 was created which provides:
"Without prejudice to any other rights howsoever arising in relation to any archaeological object found before the coming into operation of this section, there shall stand vested in the state ownership of an archaeological object found in the State after coming into operation of this section where such an object has no known owner when it was found".

234

Regarding oil:

If the land is registered, most folios stated that "registration does not extend to mines and minerals". I'm not sure if "minerals" would cover oil, but that is exactly what this particular provision is trying ot cover.

Goafer

Oil is not a mineral, but a hydrocarbon.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Bunreacht na Eireann wrote:

1. All natural resources, including the air and all forms of potential energy, within the jurisdiction of the Parliament and Government established by this Constitution and all royalties and franchises within that jurisdiction belong to the State subject to all estates and interests therein for the time being lawfully vested in any person or body.

Regarding the issue of oil it belongs to the estate

Procrastastudy

Ah the Republic Perogative

sealgaire

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Regarding the issue of oil it belongs to the estate

My feckin management company will be delighted

Mech1

Hypothetically me arse, come on...... tell us what you found!

amitooearly

Its interesting isn’t it. What would happen if I buried something, which I owned, in my back garden, say, for example, some gold coins. Then I died and the coins remained buried for one hundred years and were recovered by my descendants, who now own the land. Would they have any claim over the find or would the state have a right to it?

I guess my question is when is something legally considered an artefact? (I have no stash of gold coins by the way, I wish!)

Farcear

amitooearly wrote: »

I guess my question is when is something legally considered an artefact? (I have no stash of gold coins by the way, I wish!)

Edit: Update.

The definition was discussed obiter (as a by the way remark by a judge) by Chief Justice Finlay in the Webb case linked above as being:

(1) Objects made exclusively or substantially of gold or silver; and

(2) Buried with the intention of being recovered.


I would say the State has an arguable claim to your coins. 50/50 at best given that it's _only_ 100 years.

Procrastastudy

Farcear wrote: »

Edit: Update.

The definition was discussed obiter (as a by the way remark by a judge) by Chief Justice Finlay in the Webb case linked above as being:

(1) Objects made exclusively or substantially of gold or silver; and

(2) Buried with the intention of being recovered.


I would say the State has an arguable claim to your coins. 50/50 at best given that it's _only_ 100 years.

Hmmm - I think that generous. Wasn't it the situation in Webb that it was found on State property and there was no way to trace the owner (I've inferred that bit)

Surely it'd just be a case of looking at the will?

What if it wasn't his decendents though and someone that had bought the house?

Not really OT but that story about all those vintage sports cars in a barn prings to mind.

lawfilly

Under a 100 years and you be ok. Its the generally accepted cut off point. Anything over 100years or a significance to the States archaeological record (and this can be under 100years as sometimes with shipwrecks) It belongs to the State.

Bemis v. Minister for Arts, Heritage etc, is an interesting case to look at.

odds_on

Goafer wrote: »

Oil is not a mineral, but a hydrocarbon.

I believe oils are classed as either Mineral oil or vegetable oil. Could be wrong though!!

krd

odds_on wrote: »

I believe oils are classed as either Mineral oil or vegetable oil. Could be wrong though!!

A mineral, is a substance obtained through mining. Get it? Min-er-al ..From a mine.

I came to mean all kinds of things afterwards but it's from mining.