Ideas for change .....

CabanSail

We have had a Poll in this thread and the outcome was a call for "change".

There was a similar call back in 2010 and it resulted in the present structure. Back then the predominant feeling was that the main forum was being over run with gear chatter and the photography, the Art bit, was getting lost. Thus "The Workshop" was born. Threads to do with Gear & the Mechanics have their home there.

Can I ask that you give some thought to what you want and why. Then when you have it clear post it here.

Please, no back and forth chatter. Try to keep to one well thought out post per person. If you want to add more then edit your post or ask a Mod to edit for you.

Will leave this run for a couple of weeks and then it can be taken to the Skunk Werks to be examined.

dirtyghettokid

the only thing that bothers me is one big sticky about gear advice and whatnot. i was down in a shop one day and saw a pentax k1000 i was thinking about buying .. i searched boards on my phone, to see if there was a thread about this camera (user experiences) but it came up with a post about it in the sticky thread. it's hard to navigate on a phone at the best of times. there could have been more posts about this camera on that thread, but i didn't have the time to wade through the whole thread on my phone.
i know people re-start the same topics, time & time again.. but i think there should be a single thread for a camera (like one thread for canon 5D mkII for example) instead of a super thread for all gear advice.

i don't mind there being a separate forum for gear and stuff, but i do forget to look in there, unless i'm looking for something specific.
i mean, it should be split into "art" & tech anyways.. but that's just IMO.

as for stickies... a legal thread sticky would be ideal for people to look to for advice for when "someone stole my pic!" etc.

ThOnda

I have few suggestions...

• Turn down moderation from 11 to a bit lower setting.
• Do not move threads to subforums before 7 days from their posting, unless requested by the author of the thread. (Activity is dying here.)
• And opposite, if requested by author of a thread, do not move such thread into subforum till the date requested by the author (in case of events and courses, that become lost in subforums).
• Merge subforums to one - "What is happening", or just similar. (We don't have such big traffic here anymore.)
• Do not moderate discussions, even when it steers away from the original topic. Focus on social moderation (abuse, personal attacks).
• Implement "thumbs down" button.

This few are permanently on my mind, whenever I come for a look here. I hope to come up with more.

DaireQuinlan

If I might make a suggestion...

I think moving the gear related stuff out of the main forum was a blessing. I think that moving all the technique and process stuff into that same sub forum wasn't such a great idea. There's a kind of grey area between the photographic Process (capital P ) and the process (small p) of taking, selecting, editing etc etc that results in the final shot.

My suggestion would be to rename that workshop as a dedicated gear forum, mercilessly cull any gear related threads in the main forum, and allow all else that is currently moved into that forum to remain on the main forum. This'll hopefully bring back up the volume of posting on the main page to some critical mass that'll encourage more people to post.

Everything else, sub-fora, stickies, moderation, all good.

Gregor Samsa

I have no problem with the gear talk (Workshop) being in a sub forum - and I say that as someone who enjoys contributing to it. But I think the "Advice/Questions" sticky megathread isn't very useful to anyone. I'm sure people get tired with seeing "I want a really good camera. I have 100 euro. What should I get?" threads, but to be honest, if we as a community are striving to support photographers of all abilities and backgrounds, then questions like this are something that we should be willing to put up with, even if individuals want to ignore them.

The questions about whether one should buy a 5D mk ii or a mk iii don't tend to end up in that sticky - where technically (under the current rules) they should. I just think that thread doesn't serve it's intended purpose well.

If we do want to concentrate on a slightly more considered level of photography that omits the casual snapshooter, then maybe the P&S buying advice posts should be moved to a forum in the Technology section altogether. At least then they'd each have their own thread, instead of getting lost in a mess of a sticky.

I also think that the main forum should be about celebrating and promoting photography as much as possible. To that end, I'd like to see the
Photo Challenge and Events & Projects moved back there. I think that would help encourage a better sense of community and involvement. And the "What's happening" thread in Events & Projects makes no sense. You have a sub forum specifically for events, but half of them end up in an impenetrable sticky? Lets have each event have it's own thread, even if it just ends up being an announcement. At least that way they'll be seen and be of some use.

So in summary, my proposal would be:

Main Forum (general photography, C&C, Random Photos, events, challenges)
Workshop sub forum (Maybe renamed "Gear Talk", with no advice megathread, and a little more tolerance for P&S buying advice)
Pix.ie (effectively a commercial support forum, so needs to be left as is)

I'd like to finish by saying that I think the Random Photos thread is the best thread on any forum on the internet, hands down. It's something for anyone who contributes to it (by posting or voting) to be very proud of.

EyeBlinks

As has been said activity is dying here and I count myself top of the list there. If this was The Catholic Church forum, I'd class myself as a lapsed member not an Atheist (yet).

I think the forum suffers from structural problems and does not develop and maximise its strengths.

Membership - I use the term in its most general sense. Definitely, the best strength of the forum is a diverse and a steady amount of new members. A regular fall off of more established members is a huge problem though (and I don't accept the argument "that's just how it is").[/COLOR]

The diverse membership is imo not used enough to make the forum interesting and fresh. A lot of the positive things involving the membership are offline (no harm in that at all), i.e. photowalks (very successful) but the online aspect of membership and the forum is dying. Membership is broadly made up of 3 categories, Hobby, Commercial and Art photographers, with of course blurred lines between all three. Some Hobby photographers move on to the other 2 categories and then, generally, there is a huge fall off in these on the forum. That is a real problem to the general membership as these skills/pov are lost to the forum and to new members who may join and results in the forum becoming very samey.

So how do we involve the members at all levels more?

Suggestions :

a) Mentor Scheme - Where more experienced members would make themselves available (limited obviously) to less experienced members. This would maybe benefit less experienced members (and could be very focused) and maybe act as a motivating factor for more experienced members to remain around here. It could be offline or maybe straggle both online and offline.

b) Member Profile - A while back (too lazy to look) there was a suggestion that a Member be interviewed every so often to find out what motivates them, where they are going, showcase their portfolio.
If I remember right it started with Dakar and faded away. (see Mods Comment later down on how this might be organised).

c) POTW - For me the POTW is somewhat boring and reproduces very similar ( nice sure ) photos every week, with little variety of subject or genre. I think it's a natural thing when you base it on a general thumbs up. My suggestion would be to have a member choose each week, which would involve the membership in the forum more and would produce a different viewpoint each week.

d) ??? I'm sure there are loads of other ways of making "membership" around here be more inclusive interactive and interesting. Lets have them !

MODS

I think the mod structure of the forum could do with updating. Mod's generally do a good job, if you are talking order etc (a few striking exceptions aside) but I think the function of the Mods could be broader to include the development of the forum, something we are now discussing because it has become a problem once again. This should be ongoing and progressive and not something that erupts eventually every so often.

Suggestions :

Order Mods -

More or less what we have at the moment. Should be changed regularly (every 2 yrs maybe) as with the best will in the world people get stale. Should listen more acutely to the membership, as “Thecageyone Episode” was let get totally out of hand and lost many people to the forum.

Aside from the obvious, abuse, legal etc, moderation should be more or less invisible and light touch as order is generally good around here.

Content Mods -

This is something we don't have at the moment (or if we have it isn't working) and is a major gap imo.
These would have none of the responsibilities/functionality of the Order Mods and would be solely responsible for the forum layout, progression, keeping it fresh and looking at and implementing members requests/ suggestions. This would be ongoing and hopefully keep the forum fresh, the members involved and avoid these periodic cries for progess !

Forum Layout
Not going to labour the point here as others have far more ideas than me on this.

Just to say that the main forum should be the main forum not the items missed on the sub forums.

If regular members are missing their entry to the Boards Book, because it's hidden away in a sub-forum under an obscure heading, it should be obvious to everyone that something is amiss.

Sub-forums are not areas for everyone in my experience. Hence they should be more specific and specialist, especially to the point of providing a platform for minority interests, especially where they are only the interest of a relative few. More ways of member retention.

Arts

Hey, the photography forum is a sub-section of the Arts Forum. You could be on here quite a while without realising that. That should be addressed. People with an interest in photography as an art form should be accommodated too, encouraged even. The last review saw most become inactive when it was suggested that we should maybe be pursuing this elsewhere. Some of us did exactly that.

A lot of people progress from hobbyist to having an interest in Photography as an art form and the members that should be here to facilate and nurture that are mainly gone.

Suggestions :

Interaction - The forum should positively engage with the art world. Q&A sessions, getting specialists to introduce their work i.e. curators etc, private viewings and a multitude of other things.

A while ago PhotoIreland introduced themselves here and promptly left without a trace. That was an ideal situation to become involved with the Photographic Art World and build on the forum profile, basically lost. We should be pro-actively making such connections and building on them not pushing them away.

Cue: The Content Mod above.

Exhibitions :

There have never been so many Photo Exhibitions in Ireland. It's overwhelming almost. Who goes to see them? Could group visits be organised? Feedback/Opinion on the Forums. Things to be learned? etc etc.

Arts Students

A lot of members here are or were Arts Students. They could be encouraged to share and explore some of the knowledge they have learned, in a more formal way maybe than the odd post here and there.

Using The Forum Profile

As I said at the start the main thing here are the members. This should be used more to build the profile of the Forum and use the strengths it has through the membership. Lots have been done on boards by individual members, brilliant things like the annual Photobook, various Printauctions etc. These have mainly harvested the interest and generosity of the Members and very successfully too. Utilising the Forum Profile the other way around rarely if ever happens.

Suggestions :

Competitions –

There’s nothing to up the interest than a competition with a prize. With such a diverse membership, who obviously contribute to the profits of Photo Stores, Manufacturers etc it should be no problem surely to interact with these for the benefit of the members and generate some forum interest.

Special Deals –

Again discounts, special hire rates, course fees etc could easily be sought for the benefit of the members. Businesses are crying out for any business they can get out there.

T&C’s

At least one Mod has expressed the view that the T&C’s are a major reason some people don’t post photos on the forum. If that’s the case should that not be looked at?

Change them, if they are stopping people posting (where possible) and why not make exceptions for the Photoforum if needed. For instance, removing old photos from posts where requested.

Summary

I’ve been here before a few times and would be very skeptical about change around here. Contributed majorly to debate in the past only to see it all come to nothing.

As a lapsed member, who will probably remain so, this will be my sole contribution this time around.

Fujiguy

As a recent returnee to boards, i thought i would throw in my opinion.

When i rejoined and went right to photography, i saw workshop and thought " this is going to be great! " instead, i found myself going through really old posts to try and find answers. Terrified to ask a question in case i make a right idiot of myself ( am i in the right section or sub forum etc, is this the stupidest question ever etc ) i lurked for a while, then asked a question, even got great responses and knew where to go from there.

Random Photo works so well, why not a random newbie question of the day thread or something like it to encourage people to post beginners questions more, in a place where they should be?

Thanks.

OldGoat

I don't believe any change is necessary. However if a change is inevitable then I put this forward for concideration.

Reduce the forums to just two, Photography and a sub for Photographs.

In the Photography forum you would have all the events, gear, Pix.ie, chat and advice type threads. Include a 'Diary' sticky for upcoming events, photowalks etc.. The Diary sticky is just for noting the event, all chat about the event goes into a seperate post. That way current and future events are easy to find and then a search of the forum will bring you to any chat about the event.

In the Photograph subforum you put all the C&C, Random and challange threads.

Think of them as the Artistry forum and the Art forum. Or think of them as the nice quiet gallery and the loud lively bar.

There will always be a spill over of advice into the Photograph forum and of photos into the Photography forum but blurry borders and grey areas are part & parcel for photographers.

chisel

Since I contributed to the poll/discussion I'd like to throw in my 2p (2c?):

There are too many sub fora - this means the traffic gets diluted out, and when you log in daily, it appears as if there are no new posts. So you leave it 2 days to check in, then 3 days and so on. I would humbly have thought that 1 forum with a number of stickies might do the job, but this would need some analysis. Something like 1 x photo discussion and 1 x gear discussion maybe?

Things like photowalks, events etc can be stickied until no longer relevant. Past aggro between members/mods - that's a more difficult issue as it involves people and attitudes (I missed the issues referred to above so have no clue). Maybe fewer mods rather than more, but changed more often might be good for forum + the mods too?

I just believe that the fresher it looks, the more bold blue threads you see when you check in the better. This forum is a great resource, with many things going very right for it - its great to have it.

ronanc15

I think the Photography forum already has a great foundation to work with so i don't think the change needed is too drastic.

For me it is as mentioned by DaireQuinlan. Just rename "The Workshop" to "Gear Talk" or something similar. Let all the discussion of the techy type hardware/software & equipment stuff go in there. No megathread though, an increased level of tolerance could be required but this may be appeased somewhat by a good informative sticky or buyers guide

The main photography forum then I would like to see everything else. Techniques, c&c, events, general topic discussions.

I can see where OldGoat is coming from with the Photography and Photograph separation aspect but I have to disagree. I think that would be unnecessarily taking requests for constructive feedback away from a larger audience (as the main forum inevitably is).

dinneenp

not a major change but somehow promote/encouage more discussion, comments on photos in the random X threads.
Some people don't want to create an individual thread to post 1 or 2 photos...

AnCatDubh

DaireQuinlan wrote: »

I think moving the gear related stuff out of the main forum was a blessing. I think that moving all the technique and process stuff into that same sub forum wasn't such a great idea. There's a kind of grey area between the photographic Process (capital P ) and the process (small p) of taking, selecting, editing etc etc that results in the final shot.

Ah, this sounds really good so i'll save myself retyping something similar. I think following up on Daire's suggestion will get people back with eyeballs on lots of threads that they may be interested in and stimulating interaction. They can simply ignore what doesn't interest them.

After that, imho people get out of the forum in equal doses to what they put in.

CabanSail

This thread has been open 2 weeks now.

Will leave it open a couple more days for those who still wish to contribute.

CabanSail

Plan on closing this thread at about midnight (ish)

So if anyone has been considering an input please make it soon.

CabanSail

The posts above have been discussed by the Mod Team. Some things were outside of the scope of this forum and were more site wide matters. Others have been really good and we have come up with the proposed changes below.


1. Rename "The Workshop" to "The Camera Forum"

This will be the home for all the Gear Talk and Software, as it is now, but the techniques will be returned to the main forum. Processing methods will also be in the main forum.

2. In the Camera Forum merge threads into common inquiries when possible. For example it will be Nikon DSLR, Canon DSLR, Canon FF, Nikon FF etc. The curent Mega Thread can be for just the Newbie "Which camera?" posts.

3. Introduce a system for Mentors. We will be looking for volunteers soon. If you would like to be a Mentor then please PM one of the Mods. As a minimum include your geographical location, years of experience, specialist areas, who you would like to mentor.

4. Re-introduce Photographer Profiles. The Photographer Profiles was started a long time ago but died after two or three. It was very time hungry on the person doing the interview.
The new method will be a Photographer from the forum will post examples of their work and we invite to forum to ask them questions about their art and views on photography, etc. Keep the thread open and sticky for two weeks, or a bit longer if required. On closing the thread the subject names the next victim subject, whom they have already had an acceptance from via PM.


Once again this thread will be open for about a week. Thank this post if you agree with the above changes. Modifications can be as added below. Single post per person to keep thing concise.