RTE1: Creedon's Cities - except Waterford!

Dunmoreroader

Eh it's not just those banging on about KK that are missing the point of my post but also the "Dublin is the only city" brigade.
I started off with; "here we go again" because this slight on Waterford by RTE, small and seemingly insignificant, is just the latest in a very long line of slights, snubs and put downs that Waterford has had to endure in its slide into insignificance at the hands of the state and all it's outposts; govt. depts, IDA, RTE, HSE, the bloody lot of them.
Do you think the people of Galway were embarrassed when their town was upgraded to city status in the 80's and it proceeded to pass out Waterford in size and stature within a few years? No chance and good luck to them, the City of the Tribes spurns no chance to get its profile up.
These things matter. It's not about the name, it's about what goes with it, same as the University debate.

Whatsisname

My friend made a blog entry about this, thought it might interest some of ye.

http://seandefoe.wordpress.com/2012/07/09/creedon-cant-count/

7upfree

mfitzy wrote: »

Seriously, you're dead right. Just had a flick through this thread I'm actually shocked that people in Waterford city believe that to bang on about Kilkenny not being a city that somehow it makes Waterford more of a city. It's actually bordering on obsession. Is this going to get RTE to notice Waterford or put it on an equal footing with Galway et al? Not a hope.
Pretty much every second post here mentions how Kilkenny is not a city.If that makes ya's feel better then fair enough, but is it going to gain recognition of Waterford outside? As somewhere people would visit for the weekend?
You would all be better served put forward real arguments as to why Waterford should be included in the show. Rather than repeatedly mention Kilkenny not being a city. And Kilkenny was not even included in the RTE Show; I'd hate to see the vitriol had we been
P.S. the RTE guy that emailed threw Kilkenny in as a red herring; I'd say the truth was they had never considered Waterford as part of their show and the "two smallest cities" was a way of softening the blow . But that as I was saying has zilch to do with Kilkenny.

Indeed it doesn't. It was a clever distraction (which KK is) by RTE. Vitriol? Vitriol is when you have someone living a mile outside the Waterford city limits driving to Kilkenny for shopping because she hates Waterford - then rings the Waterford radio station to which she listens each day to proclaim this behaviour. Ah, people from south KK. God love them!

The "real argument" is that Waterford is the oldest City in Ireland - before even Dublin. That in itself - leaving aside all the other good things about it - qualifies it.

As for smallest - there are housing estates on the Dunmore Road which would dwarf Kilkenny town. Literally.

The only thing that will put Waterford on an equal footing is a University. Two Unis within 60 miles of each other on the West coast, but Waterford is deemed unsuitable by successive Governments, including this one, courtesy of the laughable Labour stalwart, Ruairi Quinn.

As for vitriol, your own is fairly palpable there.

Jason Todd

mfitzy wrote: »

Seriously, you're dead right. Just had a flick through this thread I'm actually shocked that people in Waterford city believe that to bang on about Kilkenny not being a city that somehow it makes Waterford more of a city. It's actually bordering on obsession. Is this going to get RTE to notice Waterford or put it on an equal footing with Galway et al? Not a hope.
Pretty much every second post here mentions how Kilkenny is not a city.If that makes ya's feel better then fair enough, but is it going to gain recognition of Waterford outside? As somewhere people would visit for the weekend?
You would all be better served put forward real arguments as to why Waterford should be included in the show. Rather than repeatedly mention Kilkenny not being a city. And Kilkenny was not even included in the RTE Show; I'd hate to see the vitriol had we been
P.S. the RTE guy that emailed threw Kilkenny in as a red herring; I'd say the truth was they had never considered Waterford as part of their show and the "two smallest cities" was a way of softening the blow . But that as I was saying has zilch to do with Kilkenny.

Nobody here was slagging Kilkenny's lack of city status... no-one here was using our City status to feel better about ourselves at Kilkenny's expense!! People were highlighting that KK doesn't have City stays anymore because someone on the thread (and the RTE guy) incorrectly claimed it did!! Is that really hard to comprehend?

Whether or not Waterford deserves 'city status' is irrelevant here. We are a city by law and thus should have been included in the RTE programme. You are probably right with the 'softening the blow' thing, he was just fobbing us off.

labratd22

mccarthy37 wrote: »

Kilkenny is a city it was granted a city charter by the British. You should write to the BBC at least they would give you an intelligent reply.

Kilkenny was only granted formal city status at the behest of Big Phil in 2001, even though it used the city title before that see here and Minister of State Tom Kitt explanation of why is was granted at that time

"It was never intended that Kilkenny would be a city such as Dublin or Cork. All Kilkenny wanted was to be allowed to continue to use the term “city” in recognition of its ancient tradition"

But then in 2002, Phil Hogan asked for "full city status" for Kilkenny, in 2009 he said "Kilkenny has lost its City status courtesy of Fianna Fáil".

That man is never happy

leduke

excellent letter on this topic in this weeks edition of the news and star!

fricatus

Lads, I know the Kilkenny phenomenon muddies the water, but I'm tired of seeing people attack the place and calling it Kilkenny Town and so on. Kilkenny is a fine city that a lot of people like, and maybe we should - I don't know - learn some lessons from up the road? It says a lot about our own self confidence that we have to attack somewhere half our size just to make ourselves feel better.

Can't we just be proud of what we have and let our argument with RTE stand on its own merits?

abouttobebanned

fricatus wrote: »

Lads, I know the Kilkenny phenomenon muddies the water, but I'm tired of seeing people attack the place and calling it Kilkenny Town and so on. Kilkenny is a fine city that a lot of people like, and maybe we should - I don't know - learn some lessons from up the road? It says a lot about our own self confidence that we have to attack somewhere half our size just to make ourselves feel better.

Can't we just be proud of what we have and let our argument with RTE stand on its own merits?

Exactly. The KK bashing is starting to make us look very small and petty.

Professey Chin

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Exactly. The KK bashing is starting to make us look very small and petty.

We need to take on bigger fish.
UP YOURS CORK!

comeraghs

There was no KK bashing!

Someone from KK said it was a city, It was pointed out to them that officialy & legally it isn't a city & it should rest there.


Back to the point! Waterford deserves & should be respected as 1 of the 5 official cities of the Irish Republic. It hasn't been & unless Waterfordians stand up & demand that it is, it will never be!

starch4ser

they left out kilkenny city as well

comeraghs wrote: »

This complete disregard for Waterford really pisses me off!

to be fair, every city outside dublin suffers this to some extent. rte is completely dublin centric

johnnykilo

Just saw this on John Creedon's Twitter account:

Thanks so much for the kind words re CreedonsCities.Genuinely appreciate it.3 more to go and who knows Kilkny,Watrfd,Bfast, Derry nxt year ?

Although having watched last nights show I couldn't believe how cringey it was, plus what a strange unlikable presenter John Creedon is. The show was a small step above Nationwide and who ever decided to show it in a Prime Time slot on RTE 1 must be mad!

7upfree

johnnykilo wrote: »

Just saw this on John Creedon's Twitter account:



Although having watched last nights show I couldn't believe how cringey it was, plus what a strange unlikable presenter John Creedon is. The show was a small step above Nationwide and who ever decided to show it in a Prime Time slot on RTE 1 must be mad!

At least Nationwide gives Waterford City good coverage. Can these people even count? Three to go: Waterford, KK, Derry, Belfast? Another fobbing off. Two of them are outside the State.

7upfree

starch4ser wrote: »

they left out kilkenny city as well

Have you read the first few pages of this thread???

starch4ser wrote: »

to be fair, every city outside dublin suffers this to some extent. rte is completely dublin centric

Not in this instant.

Teebor15

Thanks so much for the kind words re CreedonsCities.Genuinely appreciate it.3 more to go and who knows Kilkny,Watrfd,Bfast, Derry nxt year ?

Can these people even count? Three to go: Waterford, KK, Derry, Belfast? Another fobbing off. Two of them are outside the State.

Can you even read?? One program / city has been shown. so THREE more in the series to go. Then who knows Kilkenny, Waterford, Belfast, Derry next year.

Its so obvious what he is saying its ridiculous.

Johnny Johnson

7upfree wrote: »

Can these people even count?

Can you read?

7upfree

Teebor15 wrote: »

Can you even read?? One program / city has been shown. so THREE more in the series to go. Then who knows Kilkenny, Waterford, Belfast, Derry next year.

Its so obvious what he is saying its ridiculous.

Doesn't matter a damn. He's just backtracking. RTE have seriously messed up here. And they know it.

membersonly

7upfree wrote: »

Doesn't matter a damn. He's just backtracking. RTE have seriously messed up here. And they know it.

How so?

road_high

starch4ser wrote: »

they left out kilkenny city as well



to be fair, every city outside dublin suffers this to some extent. rte is completely dublin centric

I'd say it's very west of Ireland centric to be honest. Every second presenter is from the bloody Gaeltacht!! Who is there from South Leinster/south east?
Katherine Thomas and Aobheann Ni Chuillen (Cullen) are two I can only think of off hand. Not exactly huge profilers. Is there anybody from Waterford? They adore Galway and Connemara on RTE and TnaG is even based over there!!
The whole south East is an afterthought as far as RTE are concerned to be honest. Cork/Kerry seem to punch above their weight also on RTE. I guess as the countries second biggest city and population that is natural (much as it pains me to say it!).

Green Hornet

Lads, this whole thread is full of paranoia..........I dont think for a moment that RTE have any agenda against Waterford or anywhere else for that matter.

The fact is that Waterford is just not considered significant enough to have a program in this series. He's already said that Waterford and Kilkenny etc. may be included in another series.

merlante

Green Hornet wrote: »

The fact is that Waterford is just not considered significant enough to have a program in this series. He's already said that Waterford and Kilkenny etc. may be included in another series.

The questions are,
a) Whether what locations RTE considers 'significant enough' actually matters, when it has a mandate to be objective and impartial, as set out in the Broadcasting act of 2009. I *personally* would hold the view that leaving out one city out of the five is being partial to a particular view that RTE itself holds (and therefore not impartial), as opposed to an objective representation of reality. People can argue this, but this is my opinion.
b) Whether RTE is basing its idea of 'significance' (if that's what it is) on objective measures, such as demographics and actual administrative and political significance; or whether it is, consciously or not, basing its idea of 'significance' on its own internal consensus, which does not accurately reflect the reality.

So there are two things there, one is a question about whether RTE was right to pick and choose a city to leave in or out and the other whether RTE did so on the basis of a certain bias. Both of these criticisms are at least credible, and worthy of discussion, in my opinion, whether people go along with them or not.

7upfree

membersonly wrote: »

7upfree wrote: »

Doesn't matter a damn. He's just backtracking. RTE have seriously messed up here. And they know it.

How so?

If you note in the original reply from RTE there was only the mention of not including Waterford or Kilkenny no mention of the cities in the north. Now that complaints are being made he is trying to add cities from the north to the list to somehow justify his actions. At the end of the day the title is Creedons Cities I'm sure he has some say in what goes into it. He was damn well happy to promote our local talent on the all Ireland talent show 3 years ago.

If the show is about all the cities in the Island of Ireland than ok plausible explanation although why you'd leave out the oldest is beyond me.

Although from the initial reply from RTE it appears that they were simply only considering the cities in the republic of Ireland and under the local government act 2001 there are only 5 recognised cities in Ireland. So why make a programme and leave out only one.

Even if you did include Kilkenny as a city it seems a bit silly making a four part series that could have easily been a six part and considering they gave it a prime time spot they obviously thought it was going to do well, so you'd imagine they wanted to make it longer not shorter.

At the end of the day the main point if the thread is that the south easy as a whole was ignored. The only city under the government act excluded was Waterford but leaving acts etc out of it the only 2 cities (kilkenny being allowed to call itself a city) excluded are both in the south east.

If we don't stick up for our city then it will simply become history. Evidently our broadcasters don't care about it but us the people of this great city do and we will fight to get recognised for positive things rather than redundancies or crime ( which seems to be the only time rte take an interest)

membersonly

7upfree wrote: »

If you note in the original reply from RTE there was only the mention of not including Waterford or Kilkenny no mention of the cities in the north. Now that complaints are being made he is trying to add cities from the north to the list to somehow justify his actions. At the end of the day the title is Creedons Cities I'm sure he has some say in what goes into it. He was damn well happy to promote our local talent on the all Ireland talent show 3 years ago.

If the show is about all the cities in the Island of Ireland than ok plausible explanation although why you'd leave out the oldest is beyond me.

Although from the initial reply from RTE it appears that they were simply only considering the cities in the republic of Ireland and under the local government act 2001 there are only 5 recognised cities in Ireland. So why make a programme and leave out only one.

Even if you did include Kilkenny as a city it seems a bit silly making a four part series that could have easily been a six part and considering they gave it a prime time spot they obviously thought it was going to do well, so you'd imagine they wanted to make it longer not shorter.

At the end of the day the main point if the thread is that the south easy as a whole was ignored. The only city under the government act excluded was Waterford but leaving acts etc out of it the only 2 cities (kilkenny being allowed to call itself a city) excluded are both in the south east.

If we don't stick up for our city then it will simply become history. Evidently our broadcasters don't care about it but us the people of this great city do and we will fight to get recognised for positive things rather than redundancies or crime ( which seems to be the only time rte take an interest)

Yeah but how have they messed up like? How will it affect them? Literally no one outside of Waterford cares about this.

merlante

membersonly wrote: »

Yeah but how have they messed up like? How will it affect them? Literally no one outside of Waterford cares about this.

See my post above for how they (may have/probably) messed up.

Given that what they've done is leave out one city, of course only people in Waterford care about it. What's your point?

7upfree

membersonly wrote: »

Yeah but how have they messed up like? How will it affect them? Literally no one outside of Waterford cares about this.

Everyone inside does....are you grasping this yet?

abouttobebanned

Not everyone. I genuinely have more pressing things to be worrying about. I cringe everytime I see people getting excited about this.

Green Hornet

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Not everyone. I genuinely have more pressing things to be worrying about. I cringe everytime I see people getting excited about this.

Yep, same here. To me, it seems to be cropping up in threads all the time and I just think to myself "Here we go again".

membersonly

7upfree wrote: »

Everyone inside does....are you grasping this yet?

Nope, cos I'm inside and couldn't care less. I wouldn't even know about it if I wasn't a member on here. I would say that 90% of people in Waterford don't have a clue about it, and wouldn't care if they did. They have much more important things to worry about.

Seriously, tis a relatively nice evening, grab a 7up and chill out

merlante

Green Hornet wrote: »

Yep, same here. To me, it seems to be cropping up in threads all the time and I just think to myself "Here we go again".

And then the usual suspects come on whinging about people whinging, and I think "here we go again", now the thread is 3 times longer and just .. will .. not .. die.

Pity people couldn't just have their gripe about Waterford being omitted from Creedon's cities and leave it at that. Instead, we have a 6+ page thread. Why? Because people *need* to define *again* what a city is, because people need to defend Kilkenny against illusory attacks and because people who have absolutely no interest in the topic continuously whinge and complain about other people having an interest in the topic. If the topic doesn't appeal to you, stop reading, or at least stop replying.

fricatus

membersonly wrote: »

Nope, cos I'm inside and couldn't care less. I wouldn't even know about it if I wasn't a member on here. I would say that 90% of people in Waterford don't have a clue about it, and wouldn't care if they did. They have much more important things to worry about.

Where you're missing the point is that this is sort of like the zero-tolerance approach to policing. You don't allow a single wall to have graffitti or a single window to be broken, because they create the atmosphere. The little things matter, like tiny raindrops all gathering to a torrent.

Our problem is not that Waterford is left out of Creedon's Cities, or off the TV3 weather map. It's that the cumulative effect of not being mentioned, not being listed alongside the other cities in countless lists, is that we drop out of the national consciousness, so when say a business decides it wants to expand out of Dublin, its decision-makers think "where should we locate? Galway, Cork, Limerick?" rather than "Galway, Cork, Limerick and Waterford?". Now we've been forgotten about for a five- or six-job investment!

On then it goes, and when national decision-makers are deciding where to put the VEC HQ, they don't think of Waterford as a major city, they just think "Waterford, Wexford, where were we on holidays again? Wexford!" or something daft like that.

And it's only when you get an insight into how such decisions are made that you understand that there is often very little analysis. Usually it's "cover Munster from Cork, Leinster from Dublin and Connacht from Galway" rather than any sort of serious demographic analysis of population catchments.

Why do you think we don't have a university? We have a similar population catchment to Galway, yet they have a Uni and an IT. They have a higher profile, which is the result of years and years of pushing their case and getting people into positions of influence and using that influence.

Do you think Galway would have been left out of this programme? It would in its fcuk, because Galway has the largest concentration of media outside of Dublin! RTE has about 10 times the number of staff there that it does in Waterford or Limerick.

We absolutely, positively need to be on the agenda in this country. Waterford needs to be at the forefront of people's minds when they think of Ireland's cities, and something like this programme influences that. So yes it does matter.

abouttobebanned

Waterford needs to do more to stand out from the crowd, and in fairness, it is starting to try. The monstrosity that is the flour mills opposite the Quay needs to be seriously looked at. Getting people back into town after 6pm...parking...improving the nightlife and social scene...there are lots that we need to do if we want to compete with the country's big cities.

Silentcorner

fricatus wrote: »

Where you're missing the point is that this is sort of like the zero-tolerance approach to policing. You don't allow a single wall to have graffitti or a single window to be broken, because they create the atmosphere. The little things matter, like tiny raindrops all gathering to a torrent.

Our problem is not that Waterford is left out of Creedon's Cities, or off the TV3 weather map. It's that the cumulative effect of not being mentioned, not being listed alongside the other cities in countless lists, is that we drop out of the national consciousness, so when say a business decides it wants to expand out of Dublin, its decision-makers think "where should we locate? Galway, Cork, Limerick?" rather than "Galway, Cork, Limerick and Waterford?". Now we've been forgotten about for a five- or six-job investment!

On then it goes, and when national decision-makers are deciding where to put the VEC HQ, they don't think of Waterford as a major city, they just think "Waterford, Wexford, where were we on holidays again? Wexford!" or something daft like that.

And it's only when you get an insight into how such decisions are made that you understand that there is often very little analysis. Usually it's "cover Munster from Cork, Leinster from Dublin and Connacht from Galway" rather than any sort of serious demographic analysis of population catchments.

Why do you think we don't have a university? We have a similar population catchment to Galway, yet they have a Uni and an IT. They have a higher profile, which is the result of years and years of pushing their case and getting people into positions of influence and using that influence.

Do you think Galway would have been left out of this programme? It would in its fcuk, because Galway has the largest concentration of media outside of Dublin! RTE has about 10 times the number of staff there that it does in Waterford or Limerick.

We absolutely, positively need to be on the agenda in this country. Waterford needs to be at the forefront of people's minds when they think of Ireland's cities, and something like this programme influences that. So yes it does matter.

Hope you don't mind my posting in your forum but came accross this thread and the above quote is IMO absolutely spot on

Waterford rarely gets national coverage, therefore when people around the country are heading away for a weekend they rarely think of waterford ( hence the cheap hotel room rates ) which leads to quieter streets, local pubs/restuarants under more pressure, less of an atmosphere that tourists seem to bring/seek out

Where I am from, Limerick, the vast majority of media coverage we get is negative ( I believe wrongly ) that is having an effect every day here ( hence even cheaper hotel room rates )

What do Limerick and Waterford have in common aside from low room rates and fewer tourists, less IDA backed jobs, and on and on it goes...

For christ sake Limerick ( if some commentators are to be believed) is the fourth largest city in ireland, despite being a good 20% bigger in population than Galway. I am merely pointing this out to back up the point being made above about where RTE place their staff

Only when the general population see the damage that RTE are doing to your city, can you do anything about it...

Best of luck, I look foward to visiting your city sometime soon.

fricatus

abouttobebanned wrote: »

...compete with the country's big cities.

Sorry for nitpicking your post, but it's not as if Waterford is competing with Chicago, Moscow or Bangkok. In world terms, we have no "big cities", just an average sized one in Dublin, and that's it. A million people is a drop in the ocean when you consider there are seven billion of us on the planet.

So when we look at Waterford, it has to be in context. It's not as if Galway and Limerick are "big cities" regardless of whether you compare them to Waterford. Maybe "major cities" is a better term, because it's all relative.

And there's no reason not to think of Waterford as a "major city" in an Irish context. It's the fifth-largest urban centre, and there's nowhere bigger for 80 miles. So instead of saying stuff like "we need to compete with the major cities", we need to say "we need to compete with the other major cities".

Nitpicking I know, but it's all about how we see ourselves!

fricatus

Silentcorner wrote: »

Hope you don't mind my posting in your forum

Please, do come in!

Silentcorner wrote: »

What do Limerick and Waterford have in common aside from low room rates and fewer tourists, less IDA backed jobs, and on and on it goes...

Plenty in my view. No coincidence that Phil Hogan is getting rid of yeer city council as well as ours.

Silentcorner wrote: »

For christ sake Limerick ( if some commentators are to be believed) is the fourth largest city in ireland, despite being a good 20% bigger in population than Galway. I am merely pointing this out to back up the point being made above about where RTE place their staff

Yeah, when I hear the major cities being listed as "Dublin, Cork and Galway", I sometimes wonder why Shannonsiders aren't kicking up more of a fuss!

Silentcorner wrote: »

Best of luck, I look foward to visiting your city sometime soon.

And when you do, please let us know so that we can give you a few pointers!

7upfree

fricatus wrote: »

Nitpicking I know, but it's all about how we see ourselves!

Precisely. And the core point. I am genuinely sad to see posters proclaiming that they "don't care" or "couldn't care less". Thankfully, having discussed this matter with many people, the "don't care" brigade are in the minority.

As a Waterfordian, it is our duty to highlight the ongoing discrimination against the oldest City in Ireland, a city that has been consistently denied University status by a motley collection of people with agendas.

The people on the West coast cared - and have two Universities within spitting distance of each other.

The people on the West coast cared - and have two international airports.

The people on the West coast cared - and organised themselves into a strong political force. The results are there for all to see.

Continue "not caring" and Waterford is finished.

7upfree

Green Hornet wrote: »

Lads, this whole thread is full of paranoia..........I dont think for a moment that RTE have any agenda against Waterford or anywhere else for that matter.

The fact is that Waterford is just not considered significant enough to have a program in this series. He's already said that Waterford and Kilkenny etc. may be included in another series.

How do you define "not significant enough"? And how does this warrant the exclusion of the oldest City in Ireland?

7upfree

fricatus wrote: »

So when we look at Waterford, it has to be in context. It's not as if Galway and Limerick are "big cities" regardless of whether you compare them to Waterford.

Galway had a smaller population than Waterford in 1970. See what a University does?

7upfree

abouttobebanned wrote: »

...parking...

And the City Council needs to get off its combined ass. The parking is a huge issue for traders.

The Council needs to introduce a "frequent parking" rate to encourage trade.

7upfree

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Not everyone.

Only the ones who care about the city's prestige, profile, and development.

abouttobebanned

7upfree wrote: »

Only the ones who care about the city's prestige, profile, and development.

Caring about Waterford and its development does not go hand in hand with caring about what RTE and TV3 think of us.

Jason Todd

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Caring about Waterford and its development does not go hand in hand with caring about what RTE and TV3 think of us.

More people would care about Waterford and it's development if we had a more significant public profile through the likes of RTE and TV3, would you agree?

The way I look at it, every little helps, throw enough mud at the wall and some of it will stick etc, etc.

abouttobebanned

I really wouldn't agree. The only people who care about Waterford's development are Waterford people. There are a number of citizens who put an extraordinary amount of energy into trying to get satisfaction from RTE and TV3. If they were to use that energy and vigor to actually do something constructive in Waterford then we could be well on our way.

7upfree

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Caring about Waterford and its development does not go hand in hand with caring about what RTE and TV3 think of us.

Strange viewpoint. It's something called National (and International) exposure. Look it up.

merlante

abouttobebanned wrote: »

There are a number of citizens who put an extraordinary amount of energy into trying to get satisfaction from RTE and TV3. If they were to use that energy and vigor to actually do something constructive in Waterford then we could be well on our way.

It's been pointed out by fricatus very clearly, and others, why Waterford's image is extremely important for every facet of the development of the city. You'd want to be blind not to see the link between profile and development, investment, and so on. The efforts that people make in this direction, such as sending complaints, and so on, take relatively little time but cumulatively they do have an impact. The likes of RTE are required by law to address official complaints as to their objectivity and impartiality. You can be sure that TV3 are sick of hearing about it, and they might just keep Waterford in mind for the map rather than have to answer a bunch of emails. So people get reasonable bang for their buck doing this sort of thing, and why not, a bit of catharsis as well if they are upset about it.

And regarding this nobody cares outside Waterford rubbish, we live in a sovereign republic that is supposed to treat all citizens equally, which means treating regions and localities equally, where it doesn't run against the national interest. People may not be too bothered about Waterford, but citizens in general would not be happy if certain parts of the country were systematically treated better or worse than the rest. Where this is the norm, it's the mark of a corrupt jurisdiction.

Having said all that, tell us about your great ideas for how people could be (more) constructive about promoting Waterford in Waterford? Picking up litter off the streets? Standing around the viking triangle giving tourists directions? What exactly? Maybe people will agree with you and start doing those things.

7upfree

abouttobebanned wrote: »

I really wouldn't agree. The only people who care about Waterford's development are Waterford people. There are a number of citizens who put an extraordinary amount of energy into trying to get satisfaction from RTE and TV3. If they were to use that energy and vigor to actually do something constructive in Waterford then we could be well on our way.

Jesus. People in a community........caring about that community. Now isn't that radical. Facing down discrimination of said community would be top of anyone's list. And if the naysayers would only do something constructive like lodging a compliant with RTE it might be a good starting point.

abouttobebanned

7upfree wrote: »

Jesus. People in a community........caring about that community. Now isn't that radical. Facing down discrimination of said community would be top of anyone's list. And if the naysayers would only do something constructive like lodging a compliant with RTE it might be a good starting point.

You've arrived here on the arrogant bus I see. Someone has a different opinion to you and you can't handle it?

The fact is, all I see are Waterford people whinging because they don't get as much "national exposure" as they'd like. Kilkenny, Limerick, Wexford etc...get about as much as we get but they don't seem to have a similar chip on their shoulder. It's that chip that gets us a bad reputation and probably contributes to the fact that we're sometimes "ignored".

I wonder do these people who expend so much energy complaining to TV stations, take a little time to do some volunteer work to make things a bit better around here?

abouttobebanned

merlante wrote: »

It's been pointed out by fricatus very clearly, and others, why Waterford's image is extremely important for every facet of the development of the city. You'd want to be blind not to see the link between profile and development, investment, and so on. The efforts that people make in this direction, such as sending complaints, and so on, take relatively little time but cumulatively they do have an impact. The likes of RTE are required by law to address official complaints as to their objectivity and impartiality. You can be sure that TV3 are sick of hearing about it, and they might just keep Waterford in mind for the map rather than have to answer a bunch of emails. So people get reasonable bang for their buck doing this sort of thing, and why not, a bit of catharsis as well if they are upset about it.

And regarding this nobody cares outside Waterford rubbish, we live in a sovereign republic that is supposed to treat all citizens equally, which means treating regions and localities equally, where it doesn't run against the national interest. People may not be too bothered about Waterford, but citizens in general would not be happy if certain parts of the country were systematically treated better or worse than the rest. Where this is the norm, it's the mark of a corrupt jurisdiction.

Having said all that, tell us about your great ideas for how people could be (more) constructive about promoting Waterford in Waterford? Picking up litter off the streets? Standing around the viking triangle giving tourists directions? What exactly? Maybe people will agree with you and start doing those things.

I have volunteered for the Imagine Festival and the Spraoi Festival in recent years. I sat in on meetings that brought the merry go round to John Roberts Square and put forward a number of other ideas at said meetings. I've helped get our press releases to National media to try and get out the word about a number of local events that we have tried to get off the ground.

You can be facetious all you want, but what's wrong with going out and picking up litter or spending a weekend trying to make a particular area look better? Are you one of these people that love nothing more than to sit at home on your ass and complain about stuff but actually do very little work to contribute to your locality. Tell us, what in the last year, have you done to make waterford a better place. Besides complain about TV3 and RTE that is.

fricatus

abouttobebanned wrote: »

I have volunteered for the Imagine Festival and the Spraoi Festival in recent years. I sat in on meetings that brought the merry go round to John Roberts Square and put forward a number of other ideas at said meetings. I've helped get our press releases to National media to try and get out the word about a number of local events that we have tried to get off the ground.

You can be facetious all you want, but what's wrong with going out and picking up litter or spending a weekend trying to make a particular area look better? Are you one of these people that love nothing more than to sit at home on your ass and complain about stuff but actually do very little work to contribute to your locality. Tell us, what in the last year, have you done to make waterford a better place. Besides complain about TV3 and RTE that is.

I don't think Merlante is in any way being facetious, and I'm certainly not either when I take my hat off to you for all the things you list above.

I think you're misunderstanding the motivation behind much of what's being discussed here though. You speak of a chip on our shoulder, and how this causes us to be "disliked" nationally. I disagree - I think we are completely and utterly ignored, and this is the problem!

Aside from a few isolated individuals, I'm not aware of anyone disliking us, even when we point out where Waterford is left off "lists". Most people seem to have no opinion either way - rather they just didn't think Waterford was significant enough to be mentioned, because they were of the same mindset that allows this thing to be perpetuated. Most people are happy enough to oblige us when the issue is pointed out. This effort of contacting RTE, etc. has paid dividends: the fact that Waterford is listed at the end of the weather forecast is a direct result of such a campaign!

I think it's unfair of you not to acknowledge that this is a worthwhile topic for discussion and campaigning. For example you mention Spraoi and Imagine - two superb festivals. But for all the wonderful work that is put into those, and all the great fun we have, is the work of people like yourself ever acknowledged at a national level? Only barely I would say!

I have to ask you the question: are you happy that you volunteer for a wonderful festival like Spraoi, but that when you travel up the country and discuss street theatre, everyone mentions Macnas? Surely wider acclaim for your effort is a motivation?

What motivates me is that I think Waterford is a great place because of the things being done on the ground, and that it could be so much better with relatively little effort from certain national decision makers. In fairness I've never seen a lack of local effort as ever being a problem, but that can only ever be part of the picture. We need national support in so many areas too, and that can only come when we are at the forefront of the national mind - which we're not.

merlante

abouttobebanned wrote: »

I have volunteered for the Imagine Festival and the Spraoi Festival in recent years. I sat in on meetings that brought the merry go round to John Roberts Square and put forward a number of other ideas at said meetings. I've helped get our press releases to National media to try and get out the word about a number of local events that we have tried to get off the ground.

You can be facetious all you want, but what's wrong with going out and picking up litter or spending a weekend trying to make a particular area look better? Are you one of these people that love nothing more than to sit at home on your ass and complain about stuff but actually do very little work to contribute to your locality. Tell us, what in the last year, have you done to make waterford a better place. Besides complain about TV3 and RTE that is.

I'm not being facetious, although it is pretty ridiculous telling people what they're doing is pointless and they should be doing better when you give no indication of what would be better. Fair play to you for what you have done in Waterford. However, other people have their own ideas about what should be done, and these ideas are naturally aligned with their own interests. Rather than pitting what other people are doing against what you are doing, why can't you just accept that people have different ideas about what should be done?

As for myself, I do plenty here and there, and I don't feel the need to broadcast it. I'm not the one coming on here, deriding what other people are doing. You are. Telling us about your wonderful achievements is not the same thing as suggesting to people in general how their time is better spent than in highlighting issues relating to Waterford's national profile. I, and plenty of people on here, happen to think that is hugely important. A few small wins on the profile front could indirectly swing a few grants for some of the things that you are involved in. You should be aware that it has been traditionally a lot more difficult to get Arts Council and Bord Failte cash into Waterford than into other locations. You should also be aware that Spraoi's profile is low outside of the south east, mostly because Waterford's profile is low, which is linked to lower tourism priorities and even to inferior coverage in the likes of the Lonely Planet and so on and so on. (Although this seems to be changing.) All of this is intricately linked together. So instead of moaning why can't you leave people get on with what their doing?

abouttobebanned

I'm just not sure that we're being ignored on the level that you think we are.

You make some good points that would be impossible for me to argue with but, for me, the main issue is people becoming side tracked (to one extent), and obsessed (to another extent) with RTE and TV3's supposed vendetta against Waterford. There is of course a pro-Dublin anti-rest of the country agenda that I couldn't possibly defend, but to suggest that Waterford is singled out for exclusion is a bit far fetched. (in my opinion)

Mind you, we're in the second stage of pitching a pilot set in Waterford to RTE...if they show us the door I'll stand behind you with a pitch fork and a flaming bale of hay.