RTE1: Creedon's Cities - except Waterford!

Neeson

fricatus wrote: »

How about Dublin? They've a whole series called "Capital D", so how did they have their programme made?

Think that finished years ago. And that's the capital city, substantially larger than the next largest city and would take more than even one programme by Creedon to get through.

abouttobebanned

I see the munster express have been reading threads again.

shockwave

Was also mentioned in the Phoenix column in the News & Star.

fricatus

Neeson wrote: »

Think that finished years ago.

It's still up on their website. It might or might not have finished its run, but it doesn't change my point. Anyway, RTE's programming is so infused with Dublin people and locations that it's hard to draw the line and say "this programme is about Dublin and that one isn't". What about Prime Time when they look at the economy? It's all pictures of the Docklands and people walking along Grafton St, and interviews with the manager of Arnott's or Dundrum.

Neeson wrote: »

And that's the capital city, substantially larger than the next largest city and would take more than even one programme by Creedon to get through.

The whole point of the series was not to "get through" anywhere in particular. It was to get a flavour of each place and see how each one is distinct from the others. As it dealt with the cities as a grouped unit, it's all the more shameful that the oldest one of them all was left out...

...And since Waterford has been around since 914 and seen the marriage of Strongbow and Aoife, been the main port in Ireland for wine importation, been visited by countless kings, built many ships, crafted many top sporting trophies (including the Cricket World Cup), been the scene for the invention of the cream cracker and the rasher, gave birth to the showbands... will I go on? ...it would take far more than one programme with John Creedon to get through too!

deisemum wrote: »

On a similar vein I noticed Mothercare have a free premier screening for their cardholders to see a children's film in Dublin, Cork, Limerick and Galway.

Waterford is excluded :rolleyes:

Yet again, no surprise... so what's their excuse I wonder? When people say this isn't important, this sort of thing is why I disagree. OK, so mothers in Waterford don't get a freebie that's available elsewhere in the country - big deal! Get over it, you might say. But it's the cumulative effect of always being on the hind tit that causes us real problems.

Neeson

fricatus wrote: »

It's still up on their website. It might or might not have finished its run, but it doesn't change my point. Anyway, RTE's programming is so infused with Dublin people and locations that it's hard to draw the line and say "this programme is about Dublin and that one isn't". What about Prime Time when they look at the economy? It's all pictures of the Docklands and people walking along Grafton St, and interviews with the manager of Arnott's or Dundrum.

Well I suppose it is based in Dublin. Rte would find it easier to head over to grafton street than go to record people walking along some street in Waterford. Grafton street is synonymous with shopping anyway and recognisable by most citizens.

fricatus

Neeson wrote: »

Well I suppose it is based in Dublin.

Well that's not good enough. The whole country pays for RTE, not just Dublin.

Neeson wrote: »

Rte would find it easier to head over to grafton street than go to record people walking along some street in Waterford. Grafton street is synonymous with shopping anyway and recognisable by most citizens.

This may be true, but the reason everyone in Ireland recognises Grafton St is because it's on RTÉ TV all the time. I would say that if you showed most people a picture of John Roberts Square in Waterford, they wouldn't recognise it. Even if you made it really easy and showed the whole city from the other side of the river, the recognition factor still wouldn't be any great shakes. And why? Because you never see it on RTE!

And this is where it stops being just a Waterford thing. I would have great difficulty picking Dundalk or Sligo out of a lineup, I freely admit. This raises the issue of whether RTE is failing in its duty to licence payers outside of Dublin to reflect and comment on their lives too. I certainly think it is. What are the big issues in Limerick, other than the gangs? I have no idea! How about in Athlone? Might as well be Mars!

One day I heard Marian Finucane on the radio, talking to someone about something that happened in Waterford, and she brushed over it, saying "oh right, well I don't know Waterford" and went back to talking about the Southside and whatnot. Someone who we pay six figures to, for as many hours of radio a week hasn't got the curiosity or the desire to visit the country's oldest city every now and again and get to know it? I really despair sometimes...

Neeson

fricatus wrote: »

And this is where it stops being just a Waterford thing. I would have great difficulty picking Dundalk or Sligo out of a lineup, I freely admit. This raises the issue of whether RTE is failing in its duty to licence payers outside of Dublin to reflect and comment on their lives too. I certainly think it is. What are the big issues in Limerick, other than the gangs? I have no idea! How about in Athlone? Might as well be Mars!

You can't expect rte to report on all towns and cities. That's what local radio is for. If someone was murdered in Waterford you can be sure we'd hear it on rte. same with Dublin.

The economic news is of national interest and affects all locations in Ireland, not just Dublin.

avant reguard

in 1911 galway "cities" population was 13000. waterfords population was 28000. galway cities population now is about 80000. waterfords is fractionally over 50000. we have always been marginalised. we should do what galway does and throw on festivals all year round, pop up smaller festivals that cost not so much to organise but would have alot of enthusiastic specialist interests which would bring alot of different types of people to the city and help spread the word about the place. of course what kills us the most is not having a university. galway has a university and an it as does limerick. what did we get during the boom boom years, 1 outer ring road, a motorway and a bypass bridge to cork, classic.

avant reguard

like avant garde 16mm film festivals i could organise there, experimental music festivals, underground art workshops etc

avant reguard

Baby4 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

and that proves it. the perception is there are only 4 real cities followed by waterford and kilkenny. kilkenny is a nice town of about 16000 people. they (national media, politicians, powers that be) all perceive waterford as a big town with no university.

avant reguard

avant reguard wrote: »

and that proves it. the perception is there are only 4 real cities followed by waterford and kilkenny. kilkenny is a nice town of about 16000 people. they (national media, politicians, powers that be) all perceive waterford as a big town with no university.

and this coming from the series producer. just proves how ignorant they are of waterford, lumping us in with kilkenny. so yes u should point out to the powers that be that waterford is the only city left out of the series.

avant reguard

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

Eh it's not just those banging on about KK that are missing the point of my post but also the "Dublin is the only city" brigade.
I started off with; "here we go again" because this slight on Waterford by RTE, small and seemingly insignificant, is just the latest in a very long line of slights, snubs and put downs that Waterford has had to endure in its slide into insignificance at the hands of the state and all it's outposts; govt. depts, IDA, RTE, HSE, the bloody lot of them.
Do you think the people of Galway were embarrassed when their town was upgraded to city status in the 80's and it proceeded to pass out Waterford in size and stature within a few years? No chance and good luck to them, the City of the Tribes spurns no chance to get its profile up.
These things matter. It's not about the name, it's about what goes with it, same as the University debate.

100% correct dunmoreroader.

avant reguard

fricatus wrote: »

Where you're missing the point is that this is sort of like the zero-tolerance approach to policing. You don't allow a single wall to have graffitti or a single window to be broken, because they create the atmosphere. The little things matter, like tiny raindrops all gathering to a torrent.

Our problem is not that Waterford is left out of Creedon's Cities, or off the TV3 weather map. It's that the cumulative effect of not being mentioned, not being listed alongside the other cities in countless lists, is that we drop out of the national consciousness, so when say a business decides it wants to expand out of Dublin, its decision-makers think "where should we locate? Galway, Cork, Limerick?" rather than "Galway, Cork, Limerick and Waterford?". Now we've been forgotten about for a five- or six-job investment!

On then it goes, and when national decision-makers are deciding where to put the VEC HQ, they don't think of Waterford as a major city, they just think "Waterford, Wexford, where were we on holidays again? Wexford!" or something daft like that.

And it's only when you get an insight into how such decisions are made that you understand that there is often very little analysis. Usually it's "cover Munster from Cork, Leinster from Dublin and Connacht from Galway" rather than any sort of serious demographic analysis of population catchments.

Why do you think we don't have a university? We have a similar population catchment to Galway, yet they have a Uni and an IT. They have a higher profile, which is the result of years and years of pushing their case and getting people into positions of influence and using that influence.

Do you think Galway would have been left out of this programme? It would in its fcuk, because Galway has the largest concentration of media outside of Dublin! RTE has about 10 times the number of staff there that it does in Waterford or Limerick.

We absolutely, positively need to be on the agenda in this country. Waterford needs to be at the forefront of people's minds when they think of Ireland's cities, and something like this programme influences that. So yes it does matter.

well said fricatus. completely on the button.

avant reguard

Silentcorner wrote: »

Hope you don't mind my posting in your forum but came accross this thread and the above quote is IMO absolutely spot on

Waterford rarely gets national coverage, therefore when people around the country are heading away for a weekend they rarely think of waterford ( hence the cheap hotel room rates ) which leads to quieter streets, local pubs/restuarants under more pressure, less of an atmosphere that tourists seem to bring/seek out

Where I am from, Limerick, the vast majority of media coverage we get is negative ( I believe wrongly ) that is having an effect every day here ( hence even cheaper hotel room rates )

What do Limerick and Waterford have in common aside from low room rates and fewer tourists, less IDA backed jobs, and on and on it goes...

For christ sake Limerick ( if some commentators are to be believed) is the fourth largest city in ireland, despite being a good 20% bigger in population than Galway. I am merely pointing this out to back up the point being made above about where RTE place their staff

Only when the general population see the damage that RTE are doing to your city, can you do anything about it...

Best of luck, I look foward to visiting your city sometime soon.

and silent corner is also right. limerick is regularly demoted to fourth city after galway. this is not accidental. maybe waterford and limerick should join up and try to organise specialist events/festivals between themselves.

calvin_zola

i think limerick and waterford are similiar like that, lost a lot to the closure of one company dell and the crystal... They are at risk of becoming donut cities

membersonly

So do ye think it's an RTE/Mothercare conspiracy? Or do they both just happen to hate Waterford separately?

Jason Todd

membersonly wrote: »

So do ye think it's an RTE/Mothercare conspiracy? Or do they both just happen to hate Waterford separately?

How droll. :rolleyes: This thread has finally resembled a civilised discussion on the matter at hand. Please don't derail it if you have nothing useful to add.

membersonly

Jason Todd wrote: »

How droll. :rolleyes: This thread has finally resembled a civilised discussion on the matter at hand. Please don't derail it if you have nothing useful to add.

Yes sir... when did you become a Mod?

7upfree

Jason Todd wrote: »

Anyway... back on-topic, I got a mail from the Ray D'Arcy Show this morning who looked in to our omission from the programme and this is the response they got from RTE:

What complete and utter bunkum. So they've decided it would be "unfair" to feature Waterford....while doing a series on Ireland's cities? Sweet Jesus, RTE are straight out of Monthy Python - they are so out of touch with reality.

7upfree

fricatus wrote: »

That argument is nonsense though: "we left ye out because we already did programs kind of about ye already this decade, now fcuk off and stop bugging us" is what it amounts to.

So by that argument, then Creedon's Cities should automatically bar the other four from other programmes for the next twelve months or so........

7upfree

Jason Todd wrote: »

How droll. :rolleyes: This thread has finally resembled a civilised discussion on the matter at hand. Please don't derail it if you have nothing useful to add.

Well said.

abouttobebanned

Sprite Boy, you really need to learn to lighten the fcuk up.

Jason Todd

membersonly wrote: »

Yes sir... when did you become a Mod?

Fair enough

7upfree

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Sprite Boy, you really need to learn to lighten the fcuk up.

Yeah, you're probably right. We should just roll over and die. If it were left to some.

membersonly

7upfree wrote: »

Yeah, you're probably right. We should just roll over and die. If it were left to some.

Ha! This is my favourite thread ever now, hands down!

7upfree

membersonly wrote: »

Ha! This is my favourite thread ever now, hands down!

I'd imagine so.........:rolleyes:

daenerysstormborn3

Can someone explain to me, in a rational manner, in comparison to the other cities featured, what does Waterford have to offer?

I mean on a comparison scale that the other four cities can offer x, y and z as hugely popular tourist attractions and a, b and c as hugely popular amenities to local people and 1, 2 and 3 as infrastructure that can be used on a national level etc.

There seems to be a mentality in this thread that Waterford is just as good as the other cities featured and offers just as much, when in my opinion it doesn't.

This whole thread seems to boil down to posters thinking that Waterford is just as good as all the other cities, rather than just promoting it as a unique city, different from the others.

Jason Todd

pixiebean22 wrote: »

There seems to be a mentality in this thread that Waterford is just as good as the other cities featured and offers just as much

You're right, it probably isn't and doesn't, but doesn't mean we can't aim high. :pac:

pixiebean22 wrote: »

This whole thread seems to boil down to posters thinking that Waterford is just as good as all the other cities, rather than just promoting it as a unique city, different from the others.

Again, you're right, we should be promoting it as a unique city... but I think the point of the OP was that we weren't getting the same chance as the other cities of promoting it at all!

7upfree

pixiebean22 wrote: »

There seems to be a mentality in this thread that Waterford is just as good as the other cities featured and offers just as much, when in my opinion it doesn't.

This whole thread seems to boil down to posters thinking that Waterford is just as good as all the other cities, rather than just promoting it as a unique city, different from the others.

I've bolded the crucial bit above. The programme wasn't called "are Dublin, Cork, Limerick and Galway better than Waterford".

membersonly

7upfree wrote: »

I've bolded the crucial bit above. The programme wasn't called "are Dublin, Cork, Limerick and Galway better than Waterford".

I've bolded the condescending, smug bit above.

daenerysstormborn3

More condescending posts but nobody seems to be able to answer the questions I asked.

I don't see where I suggested the programme should be called that or where that even fits into my post.

Another question, if it's all so unfair and (as has been suggested) Waterford doesn't get the same chances as the other cities, what are you, as an outraged native, doing about it?

mike65

I was wondering about the editorial process when the idea for this series was first pitched. Was it Creedon or some producer? And once the basic idea was agreed then what happened?

We can only afford 4 hours
Okay, so do we squeeze two cities into the final programme?
We could but that would annoy the viewers of two cities so I think we should leave out one
Which City then?
Well the smallest of course....

fricatus

Mike, maybe it was more like:
Let's do a programme about Ireland's cities!
Great idea - all four?
Yeah, Dublin, Cork, Galway, and what's the other one? Belfast?
No, we're not including the North... Limerick.
Oh yeah, Limerick!
Yeah, let's do that!

S28382

But there is no cities in Ireland apart from Dublin, the other places are just towns/large urban areas. Waterford is a town plain and simple, its bigger than Wexford town/Kilkenny town,Tipperary town, and many other towns around the country so its not a big deal, now if the program was called Creedons towns and we didnt get a look then we could have a right to be annoyed but as it stands we dont and the complaining is about something that we just aint.

mike65

You clearly have no idea what a city actually is then! Its got nothing to do with size and everything to do with legal definition - Waterford is a city so is St Davids in Wales (pop 3000) while Luton pop 200,000 is not a city.

S28382

mike65 wrote: »

You clearly have no idea what a city actually is then! Its got nothing to do with size and everything to do with legal definition - Waterford is a city so is St Davids in Wales (pop 3000) while Luton pop 200,000 is not a city.[/Q

My girlfriend tells me different:pac:

hardybuck

pixiebean22 wrote: »

Can someone explain to me, in a rational manner, in comparison to the other cities featured, what does Waterford have to offer?

I mean on a comparison scale that the other four cities can offer x, y and z as hugely popular tourist attractions and a, b and c as hugely popular amenities to local people and 1, 2 and 3 as infrastructure that can be used on a national level etc.

There seems to be a mentality in this thread that Waterford is just as good as the other cities featured and offers just as much, when in my opinion it doesn't.

This whole thread seems to boil down to posters thinking that Waterford is just as good as all the other cities, rather than just promoting it as a unique city, different from the others.

Personally I feel that the history of Waterford is unrivaled and should have been recognised in this show. It is Ireland's oldest city, and a whole show in itself could have been spent discussing the various periods in time.

fricatus

S28382 wrote: »

But there is no cities in Ireland apart from Dublin, the other places are just towns/large urban areas. Waterford is a town plain and simple, its bigger than Wexford town/Kilkenny town,Tipperary town, and many other towns around the country so its not a big deal, now if the program was called Creedons towns and we didnt get a look then we could have a right to be annoyed but as it stands we dont and the complaining is about something that we just aint.

Well then it should have been a single programme featuring only Dublin!

You're missing the essential point, which is quite simple: there are five cities defined in law in this country, but Creedon and RTE decided to leave one out when making this programme.

If you accept Kilkenny into the fold because of its particular legal right to use the term, then the point still stands that RTE left two out - and now it's worse, since both are in the south-east!

Arguments about what you think is or isn't a city are simply irrelevant. In a book I'm reading at the moment (Aftershock; Philippe Legrain), a Chinese guy he interviews refers to his hometown of Hohhot (pop 2.5 million) as a "small town". Where does that leave Dublin?

S28382

fricatus wrote: »

Well then it should have been a single programme featuring only Dublin!

You're missing the essential point, which is quite simple: there are five cities defined in law in this country, but Creedon and RTE decided to leave one out when making this programme.

If you accept Kilkenny into the fold because of its particular legal right to use the term, then the point still stands that RTE left two out - and now it's worse, since both are in the south-east!

Arguments about what you think is or isn't a city are simply irrelevant. In a book I'm reading at the moment (Aftershock; Philippe Legrain), a Chinese guy he interviews refers to his hometown of Hohhot (pop 2.5 million) as a "small town". Where does that leave Dublin?

Kilkenny isnt in the south east! and im not missing the point at all, people are getting all hot and bothered over the fact that we got left out of a programme on RTE i mean its not like Creedons cities is going to set the world alight or change anything in Waterford, yes we have historical significance, the Waterford glass, beautiful scenery but one thing we dont have is a city plain and simple.

If the law was changed to make us call an apple an orange would it actually be an apple noooo it would still be an orange and all them laws are ancient laws in them times a plce like Waterford if anyway decent in size was classed as a city but in these modern times its just not a city.

7upfree

S28382 wrote: »

But there is no cities in Ireland apart from Dublin, the other places are just towns/large urban areas. Waterford is a town plain and simple, its bigger than Wexford town/Kilkenny town,Tipperary town, and many other towns around the country so its not a big deal, now if the program was called Creedons towns and we didnt get a look then we could have a right to be annoyed but as it stands we dont and the complaining is about something that we just aint.

Rubbish.Waterford is bigger than (and then some) the combination of those towns you mention. You don't ask - you don't get. Until Waterford people get their heads around this nothing will change. If complaints have to be lodged - then do it!

7upfree

hardybuck wrote: »

Personally I feel that the history of Waterford is unrivaled and should have been recognised in this show. It is Ireland's oldest city, and a whole show in itself could have been spent discussing the various periods in time.

Indeed. Great points. Sadly, our "national broadcaster" seems to care little for history....or just getting content right.

7upfree

S28382 wrote: »

Kilkenny isnt in the south east!

:D

7upfree

pixiebean22 wrote: »

More condescending posts but nobody seems to be able to answer the questions I asked.

I don't see where I suggested the programme should be called that or where that even fits into my post.

Another question, if it's all so unfair and (as has been suggested) Waterford doesn't get the same chances as the other cities, what are you, as an outraged native, doing about it?

Lodging complaints with he relevant people - the best place to start. The only condescension being practiced is that of RTE towards Waterford City and its citizens.

S28382

7upfree wrote: »

Rubbish.Waterford is bigger than (and then some) the combination of those towns you mention. You don't ask - you don't get. Until Waterford people get their heads around this nothing will change. If complaints have to be lodged - then do it!

I know its bigger than the towns i mentioned if you read my post you would of seen that i said it was bigger but it still doesnt make Waterford a city.

7upfree

S28382 wrote: »

I know its bigger than the towns i mentioned if you read my post you would of seen that i said it was bigger but it still doesnt make Waterford a city.

According to you. Knock yourself out.....:rolleyes:

bullpost

I think that we have a great history but unfortunately we are a bit behind places like Galway and Kilkenny in marketing ourselves in this way.
This is down to the fact that unlike those two we had a big industrial base and therefore there was not the need to go for the tourist market .
This has all changed now and I believe we will catch up and probably over time pass out some of other tourist centres because we have something that cant be manufactured.

7upfree wrote: »

Indeed. Great points. Sadly, our "national broadcaster" seems to care little for history....or just getting content right.

abouttobebanned

A lot of people care about this issue, some bordering on obsession. I asked the question of someone earlier in the thread and I'll ask again now. Apart from posting in this thread, a lot, what else are you doing to right this wrong?

"a little less conversation and a little more action baby"

S28382

7upfree wrote: »

According to you. Knock yourself out.....:rolleyes:

What? how old are you .....im guessing 10.

mike65

S28382 wrote: »

Kilkenny isnt in the south east! and im not missing the point at all, people are getting all hot and bothered over the fact that we got left out of a programme on RTE i mean its not like Creedons cities is going to set the world alight or change anything in Waterford, yes we have historical significance, the Waterford glass, beautiful scenery but one thing we dont have is a city plain and simple.

If the law was changed to make us call an apple an orange would it actually be an apple noooo it would still be an orange and all them laws are ancient laws in them times a plce like Waterford if anyway decent in size was classed as a city but in these modern times its just not a city.

This will come as news to about 23,000 people.

S28382

mike65 wrote: »

This will come as news to about 23,000 people.

Haha it sure will, well its not the sunny south east, thats Waterford and Wexford:D