Pornography to blame for girls rape in todays society?Change of culture?Your thoughts

paddyandy

OP .Immodesty is rampant in Society and the teasing is continuous it's everywhere
add alcohol + whatever else and it's no surprise at all . What is in the news holds no surprises at all .

Scioch

Would there be a case for saying these kinds thing may have been more common in the by gone days with the lack of anyone actually reporting this ? If this was cousins back in the old days it would have been hushed up with the guy watched like a hawk every time he came around but nobody ever talking about it for fear of making a show of the family.

I've heard a hell of a lot of stories about the old days and the stuff that went on. Sexual crimes were probably rampant back then but nothing ever done about them. Some now may be influenced by society and porn but they are not the root cause.

Logical Fallacy

christmas2012 wrote: »

Tell that to the fourteen year old boy who was watching whatever type of porn he was watching before he raped that five year old..

Im not saying the two are directly linked but i think his consumption of porn does play a role in it,he was young full of hormones,had a low moral code,and decided to go for it on a five year old..

Well it's hardly shocking that a 14 year old boy would get access to porn, so why not have parents sit kids down and say "just so you know, porn is total bull****" and have a decent chat about sex with them?

And you are saying the two are directly linked, you have been saying it endlessly throughout this thread.

Shenshen

christmas2012 wrote: »

Tell that to the fourteen year old boy who was watching whatever type of porn he was watching before he raped that five year old..

Im not saying the two are directly linked but i think his consumption of porn does play a role in it,he was young full of hormones,had a low moral code,and decided to go for it on a five year old..

To paraphrase Michael Moore here, the two lads who shot and killed children in Columbine Highschool went bowling right before they went on their killing spree. So bowling must be linked to mass murder.

I think the issue here was not porn, it was the kid's mental state and emotional detachment.
Most children will enjoy watching Superman, but only the ones with serious other problems will jump out of the window in red undies.

christmas2012

bowling and mass murder are two different catagories,bad analogy,however,porn and sex are in the same bracket pretty much as its to do with sex exclusively..

mikom

paddyandy wrote: »

OP .Immodesty is rampant in Society and the teasing is continuous it's everywhere
add alcohol + whatever else and it's no surprise at all . What is in the news holds no surprises at all .

I once jerked it to a Monet painting.
Damn thing ended up all blurry.

christmas2012 wrote: »

bowling and mass murder are two different catagories,bad analogy,however,porn and sex are in the same bracket pretty much as its to do with sex exclusively..

Have you never heard of someone going "spare".

Logical Fallacy

christmas2012 wrote: »

bowling and mass murder are two different catagories,bad analogy,however,porn and sex are in the same bracket pretty much as its to do with sex exclusively..

But porn and rape are not.

Sex and rape are vastly different things.

Scioch

christmas2012 wrote: »

Tell that to the fourteen year old boy who was watching whatever type of porn he was watching before he raped that five year old..

Im not saying the two are directly linked but i think his consumption of porn does play a role in it,he was young full of hormones,had a low moral code,and decided to go for it on a five year old..

The most it was likely to affect him and his decisions though is probably getting him so worked up he ignored his better judgement. I doubt just knowing about porn or seeing it would have pushed him past that moral barrier. At 14 he really is old enough to know how wrong it was. So if it was just that he watched it at the house and got worked up then is it really any different than reading an erotic story or fantasizing about something ?

Scanlas The 2nd

christmas2012 wrote: »

not according to irish central,i think our perceptions on who is the object are different,but i think porn as a whole objectifies the act of sex..

What do you mean by "objectifies the act of sex"?

Does a televised football match objectify the act of playing football?

Shenshen

christmas2012 wrote: »

bowling and mass murder are two different catagories,bad analogy,however,porn and sex are in the same bracket pretty much as its to do with sex exclusively..

So would you blame Jamie Oliver and Gordon Ramsey for the growing obesity problem?

By the way, I still haven't seen you post any figures supporting your claims that rape is on the increase. All I could find online says numbers are decreasing...

christmas2012

no an erotic story is different,theres no visual prompts or suggestions as to gang rape scenes and torture porn and whatnot..

to the other poster yes sex and rape are inter related,young people are suggestible and more so than adults,so they can get ideas from rape scenes,im not advocating a lack of responsiblity either,its ultimately up to the individual as to what they want to do with that information..

Shenshen

christmas2012 wrote: »

no an erotic story is different,theres no visual prompts or suggestions as to gang rape scenes and torture porn and whatnot..

to the other poster yes sex and rape are inter related,young people are suggestible and more so than adults,so they can get ideas from rape scenes,im not advocating a lack of responsiblity either,its ultimately up to the individual as to what they want to do with that information..

*lol I would suggest you read some erotic literature, you will be amazed.
Books have always been far more outrageous than any film or picture.

christmas2012

Shenshen wrote: »

So would you blame Jamie Oliver and Gordon Ramsey for the growing obesity problem?

By the way, I still haven't seen you post any figures supporting your claims that rape is on the increase. All I could find online says numbers are decreasing...

check it up on google for yourself,here is what i got from irish central:

''Shocking new data compiled by Children at Risk in Ireland reveals that girls as young as 11 years old are too often becoming victims of gang rape and other sexual exploits.
The Irish Examiner reports on the upsetting new finds. Children at Risk clinical director Dr Niall Muldoon commented on the research, which he believes is becoming “normalized,” and whose prevalence has increased with the growing accessibility to pornography by youths.
Dr. Muldoon noted how gang rape is becoming more common''

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Gang-rape-becoming-the-norm-for-many-young-girls-in-Ireland--159403845.html

Logical Fallacy

christmas2012 wrote: »

no an erotic story is different,theres no visual prompts or suggestions as to gang rape scenes and torture porn and whatnot..

to the other poster yes sex and rape are inter related,young people are suggestible and more so than adults,so they can get ideas from rape scenes,im not advocating a lack of responsiblity either,its ultimately up to the individual as to what they want to do with that information..

For the first bit of your post, health professionals are worried about the impact of erotic literature on the readers perception of reality, sexual health and sexual expectations. (sound familiar?) - http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011/jul/07/mills-and-boon-sexual-health-problems

You can say that sex and rape are interrelated because indeed, they are!!! It still doesn't mean that seeing crap porn sex will make someone rape someone else.

You keep jumping between talking about porn, torture porn, rape porn and generally just talking completely rubbish tbh. Make your points clearer and more relevant to the question you are asking...reading all your posts in this thread is a freaking car crash.

mikom

christmas2012 wrote: »

Here is another link:


http://www.irishcentral.com/news/16-year-old-girl-allegedly-gang-raped-for-6-hours-in-Cork-and-Limerick-139631163.html


also another piece which you might find interesting,is that there is a rise in gang rape in ireland,is this a new phenomenon or is it just more reported?and is porn to blame for all this,should the individual take criminal responsiblity?

*Opens link*
*reads*

Irish police are investigating allegations from a 16-year-old girl that she was gang raped and sexually assaulted in different locations in Limerick and Cork, reports the Irish Independent.

The girl, who gave a statement to Limerick police this week, claims she was raped and sexually abused by several men over a six hour period on February 1. The girl was examined at a sexual assault clinic in Limerick.

The assaults allegedly occurred in the Bruff area in Co Limerick and near Charleville in Co Cork.

*Puts on bull**** detector*
*reads again*

Irish police are investigating allegations from a 16-year-old girl that she was gang raped and sexually assaulted in different locations in Limerick and Cork, reports the Irish Independent.

The girl, who gave a statement to Limerick police this week, claims she was raped and sexually abused by several men over a six hour period on February 1. The girl was examined at a sexual assault clinic in Limerick.

The assaults allegedly occurred in the Bruff area in Co Limerick and near Charleville in Co Cork.

The girl was examined at a sexual assault clinic in Limerick....... and the result?

Daveysil15

Suppose you have a school where every 14 year old boy watches porn. Most of them are not going to rape anyone as a consequence of watching it, and those that do, would have some serious psychological issues. There was a kid in America who shot some people after playing Grand Theft Auto. People said the game was responsible for it. There's millions of other kids who play Grand Theft Auto and don't go around killing people. People who commit these sort of crimes usually have some sort of psychological problems that go far beyond the influence of porn, games, films etc.

Scioch

christmas2012 wrote: »

no an erotic story is different,theres no visual prompts or suggestions as to gang rape scenes and torture porn and whatnot..

An erotic story may be much more involving and influential on the character than a couple of strangers banging away. He was 14, he knew it was wrong. So the only reason I'd see to link the porn to his act is that it got him horny and he then did what he did. He's 14 though so damp rag would give him a horn in the right light. I dont think the porn made him do anything he wouldnt have done anyway if he was excited enough.

Shenshen

christmas2012 wrote: »

check it up on google for yourself,here is what i got from irish central:

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Gang-rape-becoming-the-norm-for-many-young-girls-in-Ireland--159403845.html

So you don't have any numbers, you have someone's personal impression.

Good to know.

christmas2012

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

What do you mean by "objectifies the act of sex"?

Does a televised football match objectify the act of playing football?

It commericalizes it,and objectifies the players,whos the best player,whos the best goalie etc,this guy should be fired,that guy should be fired,it objectifies the people as commoditites ya,but its not the best analogy..

Eggy Baby!

What I've noticed these days is a common tendency for defendants to blame their own actions on "video games", "violent movies" or "porn". I don't know whether this kind of tactic appeals to judges or not but it seems to be effective, almost like pleading insanity. Lawyers usually thrive on this kind of stuff ("His mind was warped by porn, he's just a kid!" etc.) to make their case in such trials. Like for example, Anders Breivik (admittedly skillfully) mentioned in passing that he played COD and WOW (how WOW has anything to do with shooting people violently I have no idea) and this might affect a judge's decision more than it should.

Whether or not these things have a huge influence on a person's psychology remains to be seen, as on some people it has no effect whereas we have seen "copycat" murders due to (particularly films) some forms of violent media.

But, as the first poster said, it's up to the individual!

christmas2012

Shenshen wrote: »

So you don't have any numbers, you have someone's personal impression.

Good to know.

Its not just someones impression its what they have found to be the case,they cant just print lies,there could be legal reprecussions for that..

Tym

how gang rape is becoming more common but is not being reported

Eh, seems more like a theory. Although I do agree there should be an increase in sexual education. I think Britain has one of lowest sex-eds but one of the highest STIs and young pregnancies (compared to the scandanavian countries)

Read more: http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Gang-rape-becoming-the-norm-for-many-young-girls-in-Ireland--159403845.html#ixzz1zmOFe3Hx

I find it a bit disgraceful that people are relating sex to rape:S Rape is about dominance, not attraction.

Shenshen

Eggy Baby! wrote: »

What I've noticed these days is a common tendency for defendants to blame their own actions on "video games", "violent movies" or "porn". I don't know whether this kind of tactic appeals to judges or not but it seems to be effective, almost like pleading insanity. Lawyers usually thrive on this kind of stuff ("His mind was warped by porn, he's just a kid!" etc.) to make their case in such trials. Like for example, Anders Breivik (admittedly skillfully) mentioned in passing that he played COD and WOW (how WOW has anything to do with shooting people violently I have no idea) and this might affect a judge's decision more than it should.

Whether or not these things have a huge influence on a person's psychology remains to be seen, as on some people it has no effect whereas we have seen "copycat" murders due to (particularly films) some forms of violent media.

But, as the first poster said, it's up to the individual!

I remember the days when Dungeons and Dragons was blamed for some kids in the US going out and killing someone. Dungeons and Dragons, for feck's sake!

Anything will do as an excuse in court.

mikom

To NORA

Dublin 2 December 1909
………………………….
My love for you allows me to pray to the spirit of eternal beauty and tenderness mirrored in your eyes or fling you down under me on that softy belly of yours and **** you up behind, like a hog riding a sow, glorying in the very stink and sweat that rises from your arse, glorying in the open shape of your upturned dress and white girlish drawers and in the confusion of your flushed cheeks and tangled hair. It allows me to burst into tears of pity and love at some slight word, to tremble with love for you at the sounding of some chord or cadence of music or to lie heads and tails with you feeling your fingers fondling and tickling my ballocks or stuck up in me behind and your hot lips sucking off my cock while my head is wedged in between your fat thighs, my hands clutching the round cushions of your bum and my tongue licking ravenously up your rank red ****. I have taught you almost to swoon at the hearing of my voice singing or murmuring to your soul the passion and sorrow and mystery of life and at the same time have taught you to make filthy signs to me with your lips and tongue, to provoke me by obscene touches and noises, and even to do in my presence the most shameful and filthy act of the body. You remember the day you pulled up your clothes and let me lie under you looking up at you while you did it? Then you were ashamed even to meet my eyes.

You are mine, darling, mine! I love you. All I have written above is only a moment or two of brutal madness. The last drop of seed has hardly been squirted up your **** before it is over and my true love for you, the love of my verses, the love of my eyes for your strange luring eyes, comes blowing over my soul like a wind of spices. My prick is still hot and stiff and quivering from the last brutal drive it has given you when a faint hymn is heard rising in tender pitiful worship of you from the dim cloisters of my heart.

Nora, my faithful darling, my seet-eyed blackguard schoolgirl, be my whore, my mistress, as much as you like (my little frigging mistress! My little ****ing whore!) you are always my beautiful wild flower of the hedges, my dark-blue rain-drenched flower.

James Joyce.

Shenshen

christmas2012 wrote: »

Its not just someones impression its what they have found to be the case,they cant just print lies,there could be legal reprecussions for that..

What, you think they couldn't print a quote of something a politician said, just in case it might turn out not to be true?

How old are you?

christmas2012

where are they quoting a politician?

Shenshen

christmas2012 wrote: »

where are they quoting a politician?

So now only politicians can lie?
Or do you think unsubstantiated claims can only legally printed when made by certain professions?

christmas2012

what i want to know,is where is a politician being misquoted?

Eggy Baby!

Dublin 2 December 1909
………………………….
My love for you allows me to pray to the spirit of eternal beauty and tenderness mirrored in your eyes or fling you down under me on that softy belly of yours and **** you up behind, like a hog riding a sow, glorying in the very stink and sweat that rises from your arse, glorying in the open shape of your upturned dress and white girlish drawers and in the confusion of your flushed cheeks and tangled hair. It allows me to burst into tears of pity and love at some slight word, to tremble with love for you at the sounding of some chord or cadence of music or to lie heads and tails with you feeling your fingers fondling and tickling my ballocks or stuck up in me behind and your hot lips sucking off my cock while my head is wedged in between your fat thighs, my hands clutching the round cushions of your bum and my tongue licking ravenously up your rank red ****. I have taught you almost to swoon at the hearing of my voice singing or murmuring to your soul the passion and sorrow and mystery of life and at the same time have taught you to make filthy signs to me with your lips and tongue, to provoke me by obscene touches and noises, and even to do in my presence the most shameful and filthy act of the body. You remember the day you pulled up your clothes and let me lie under you looking up at you while you did it? Then you were ashamed even to meet my eyes.

You are mine, darling, mine! I love you. All I have written above is only a moment or two of brutal madness. The last drop of seed has hardly been squirted up your **** before it is over and my true love for you, the love of my verses, the love of my eyes for your strange luring eyes, comes blowing over my soul like a wind of spices. My prick is still hot and stiff and quivering from the last brutal drive it has given you when a faint hymn is heard rising in tender pitiful worship of you from the dim cloisters of my heart.

Nora, my faithful darling, my seet-eyed blackguard schoolgirl, be my whore, my mistress, as much as you like (my little frigging mistress! My little ****ing whore!) you are always my beautiful wild flower of the hedges, my dark-blue rain-drenched flower.

Rahoo rahoo!

Scanlas The 2nd

christmas2012 wrote: »

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

What do you mean by "objectifies the act of sex"?

Does a televised football match objectify the act of playing football?

It commericalizes it,and objectifies the players,whos the best player,whos the best goalie etc,this guy should be fired,that guy should be fired,it objectifies the people as commoditites ya,but its not the best analogy..

It is a good analogy. I'm trying determine if you have an issue with sex being "objectified" or everything being " objectified". I just fail to see what's wrong with watching people ob tv having sex if it gives you pleasure. What if the porn actors enjoy or don't mind being objectified. Would you still have a problem with it?

My instincts tell me people who object to porn on moral grounds are often really objecting because they are insecure sexually. Maybe they don't like better looking people having sex, maybe they can't make a woman/man cum like in porn, maybe they are insecure over their penis size.

christmas2012

what my problem with porn is,its not porn itself,its the fact that there are a lot of negative themes attached to it such as rape,torture etc..

for a young impressionable mind(not trying to get them off the hook or anything),it can be disasterous..

rossie1977

Shenshen wrote: »

I remember the days when Dungeons and Dragons was blamed for some kids in the US going out and killing someone. Dungeons and Dragons, for feck's sake!

Anything will do as an excuse in court.

in the 1980s it was rock music getting blamed left and right and centre for everything, i remember my secondary school teacher showing us videos about the "evils" of led zep and how stairway to heaven contained hidden messages :rolleyes:

not to forget all the stupid court cases that the likes of priest and ozzy had to deal with back then

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvvLL_oAvus

K-9

Shenshen wrote: »

So would you blame Jamie Oliver and Gordon Ramsey for the growing obesity problem?

By the way, I still haven't seen you post any figures supporting your claims that rape is on the increase. All I could find online says numbers are decreasing...

If the numbers are decreasing that would suggest there is no correlation, so christmas2012 shouldn't worry too much, this would have happened anyway!

Sometimes it can seem these cases are on the rise when I see so many in court but it's only really in the last 20 years that awareness of cases like this increased, we all know the cover ups in the Church etc.

I assume the judge had an assessment done on the lad, he was 14, saying it was an isolated incident seems a bit pointless, I should bloody hope so!

Eggy Baby!

This sort of stuff reminds me of Bobby Bouchet's mother in Waterboy.

"Fussball is the devil! Vicky Vallencourt is the devil!"

christmas2012

I dont think that people really think of the harm that watching so much porn can do to a young impressionable mind and by then its too late..(again not trying to get anybody off the hook here)..

Eggy Baby!

Also, Political correctness to the max here-

http://uk.tv.yahoo.com/viewers-complain-about-new-go-compare-ad-starring-sue-barker-%E2%80%93-daily-tv-round-up.html

K-9

christmas2012 wrote: »

check it up on google for yourself,here is what i got from irish central:

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Gang-rape-becoming-the-norm-for-many-young-girls-in-Ireland--159403845.html

If you look at the Examiner piece here it seems to be a British study that is mentioned, rather sensationally too. I don't see any data from Ireland just a comment from the head of Children at Risk in Ireland.

wonderfulname

christmas2012 wrote: »

I dont think that people really think of the harm that watching so much porn can do to a young impressionable mind and by then its too late..(again not trying to get anybody off the hook here)..

Other than giving them a very poor education on the actual act I don't see any harm whatsoever in young people watching porn. Could you illustrate any negative impacts across a significant percentage? Bearing in mind internet porn is old enough that the effects should now be visible in the adult population.

On the subject of rape porn I was always of the impression that was at least as much a female interest as male?

christmas2012

K-9 wrote: »

If you look at the Examiner piece here it seems to be a British study that is mentioned, rather sensationally too. I don't see any data from Ireland just a comment from the head of Children at Risk in Ireland.

a comment from him that said it was more common..

christmas2012

wonderfulname wrote: »

Other than giving them a very poor education on the actual act I don't see any harm whatsoever in young people watching porn. Could you illustrate any negative impacts across a significant percentage? Bearing in mind internet porn is old enough that the effects should now be visible in the adult population.

On the subject of rape porn I was always of the impression that was at least as much a female interest as male?

i dont think an overwhelming majority of the female population would support porn,let alone watch it,although i might be wrong,check the ladies lounge for opinions,although a lot of them could be pretending to be ladies,ask women yourself..

wonderfulname

christmas2012 wrote: »

i dont think an overwhelming majority of the female population would support porn,let alone watch it,although i might be wrong,check the ladies lounge for opinions,although a lot of them could be pretending to be ladies,ask women yourself..

You poor misguided soul, care to back that nugget up and all?

Women watch porn, they also fart.

prinz

wonderfulname wrote: »

Other than giving them a very poor education on the actual act I don't see any harm whatsoever in young people watching porn.

So you wouldn't have any problems with early teens watching a scene of a woman being choked, slapped, urinated on, gangbanged, made to vomit, called names, pushed around and in between maybe has sex?

Daveysil15

prinz wrote: »

So you wouldn't have any problems with early teens watching a scene of a woman being choked, slapped, urinated on, gangbanged, made to vomit, called names, pushed around and in between maybe has sex?

Jesus! What sort of porn do you be watching? Obviously there's different genre's.

V_Moth

prinz wrote: »

So you wouldn't have any problems with early teens watching a scene of a woman being choked, slapped, urinated on, gangbanged, made to vomit, called names, pushed around and in between maybe has sex?

Thats not porn, that was A Serbian Film...

prinz

Daveysil15 wrote: »

Jesus! What sort of porn do you be watching? Obviously there's different genre's.

I don't watch porn myself. I have better things to be doing tbh... but now you get on to are certain genres ok for teens? What porn is ok, what porn isn't ok.......etc etc.

Daveysil15

prinz wrote: »

I don't watch porn myself. I have better things to be doing tbh... but now you get on to are certain genres ok for teens? What porn is ok, what porn isn't ok.......etc etc.

Good question. It would be the same with films. Some films are not suited for younger people, but that still doesn't mean its going to cause them to do harm.

Scioch

prinz wrote: »

I don't watch porn myself. I have better things to be doing tbh... but now you get on to are certain genres ok for teens? What porn is ok, what porn isn't ok.......etc etc.

Thats the problem you cant expose them to one specific type. If they are exposed to porn they are exposed to the entire porn industry which includes some pretty sick shít. Quite often one thing leads to the next too as teens explore and they will explore.

So although regular porn may not have that much of a negative effect how do you stop them being exposed to the stuff that will have a significant negative effect if you already validate the industry to them ?

mattjack

prinz wrote: »

So you wouldn't have any problems with early teens watching a scene of a woman being choked, slapped, urinated on, gangbanged, made to vomit, called names, pushed around and in between maybe has sex?

prinz wrote: »

I don't watch porn myself. I have better things to be doing tbh... but now you get on to are certain genres ok for teens? What porn is ok, what porn isn't ok.......etc etc.

For someone who very clearly states you don't watch any porn , you seem to have quite a bit of knowledge on it.

Jaxxy

prinz wrote: »

Daveysil15 wrote: »

Jesus! What sort of porn do you be watching? Obviously there's different genre's.

I don't watch porn myself. I have better things to be doing tbh... but now you get on to are certain genres ok for teens? What porn is ok, what porn isn't ok.......etc etc.

Did you ever see a porno as a teen, prinz? Have a look at a pal's "dirty" mag perhaps?

Sexual curiosity is a normal thing. Teens need to be educated, not dismissed and told "NO! THAT'S DIRTY!"

I watched hetero and lesbian porn when I was younger, I turned out perfectly well-adjusted thank you very much.

I still enjoy it every now and then, it can be a pleasant enough release/escape. Having some "me" time is never a waste of time in my book.

And Christmas, a lot of other ladies enjoy porn too.

M_Bovary

Pornography usually seems to have a very strong misogynistic vibe. It's pretty disgusting to think that a lot of men actually get their jollies from watching the degradation of women. It also illustrates the deep insecurity within the psyche of these men.