Pornography to blame for girls rape in todays society?Change of culture?Your thoughts

K-9

christmas2012 wrote: »

a comment from him that said it was more common..

Fair enough, from his position he should have a good idea if teenage gang rapes are happening more. The problem with rapes is so many go unreported as he points, out so it does cast doubt on their reliability.

Shenshen

prinz wrote: »

I don't watch porn myself. I have better things to be doing tbh... but now you get on to are certain genres ok for teens? What porn is ok, what porn isn't ok.......etc etc.

I usually think that when the level of graphic violence is such that you wouldn't see it on daytime telly, that's when it becomes a film about violence, not sex.

But then, that's just me. Lots of kids out there watch rather disgusting splatter films, I don't see a bit of sex making much of an impact in any of those.

prinz

mattjack wrote: »

For someone who very clearly states you don't watch any porn , you seem to have quite a bit of knowledge on it.

I don't live in a bubble, and I used to share a house with a few lads whose idea of fun was trying to -each other with what they could turn up online... so I quickly came acquainted with things like 2 girls 1 cup and so on.

V_Moth

M_Bovary wrote: »

Pornography usually seems to have a very strong misogynistic vibe. It's pretty disgusting to think that a lot of men actually get their jollies from watching the degradation of women. It also illustrates the deep insecurity within the psyche of these men.

*faints*

Scioch

Jaxxy wrote: »

Did you ever see a porno as a teen, prinz? Have a look at a pal's "dirty" mag perhaps?

Sexual curiosity is a normal thing. Teens need to be educated, not dismissed and told "NO! THAT'S DIRTY!"

I watched hetero and lesbian porn when I was younger, I turned out perfectly well-adjusted thank you very much.

I still enjoy it every now and then, it can be a pleasant enough release/escape. Having some "me" time is never a waste of time in my book.

And Christmas, a lot of other ladies enjoy porn too.

Education is fine but allowing them to watch questionable porn isnt. By all means buy a porn dvd that you have seen and judged to be decent as education and leave it where they might happen on it when they hit that phase.

But a carte blanche regards to internet porn isnt what I'd call good education.

Shenshen

M_Bovary wrote: »

Pornography usually seems to have a very strong misogynistic vibe. It's pretty disgusting to think that a lot of men actually get their jollies from watching the degradation of women. It also illustrates the deep insecurity within the psyche of these men.

Why would you assume only men watch porn?
I can guarantee you that this female here loves watching a bit, and I know for a fact that all my female friends do.

prinz

Jaxxy wrote: »

Teens need to be educated, not dismissed and told "NO! THAT'S DIRTY!".

When have I ever suggested otherwise? I'll tell you, nowhere.

However I would question whether unrestricted access to porn actually equates to education on sex. Does porn educate users on emotions? On feelings? On personal histories of those involved? On compromise and discussion? There's a lot more to sex education than the basic mechanics of the physical act IMO.

Shenshen

LordSmeg wrote: »

Education is fine but allowing them to watch questionable porn isnt. By all means buy a porn dvd that you have seen and judged to be decent as education and leave it where they might happen on it when they hit that phase.

But a carte blanche regards to internet porn isnt what I'd call good education.

Well, maybe not buy it for them, they'll die of embarrassment. Buy it, and hide it somewhere they are guaranteed to find it.
Part of the imense fun of porn is the forbidden fruit element

But other than that, I couldn't agree more.

christmas2012

so would you have a porn easter egg hunt type thing for your son?

Daveysil15

M_Bovary wrote: »

Pornography usually seems to have a very strong misogynistic vibe. It's pretty disgusting to think that a lot of men actually get their jollies from watching the degradation of women. It also illustrates the deep insecurity within the psyche of these men.

Women watch porn too. Do they find it misogynistic? What if a couple decide to make a sex tape and put it on the internet? How would that be degrading to either gender?

Jaxxy

LordSmeg wrote: »

Jaxxy wrote: »

Did you ever see a porno as a teen, prinz? Have a look at a pal's "dirty" mag perhaps?

Sexual curiosity is a normal thing. Teens need to be educated, not dismissed and told "NO! THAT'S DIRTY!"

I watched hetero and lesbian porn when I was younger, I turned out perfectly well-adjusted thank you very much.

I still enjoy it every now and then, it can be a pleasant enough release/escape. Having some "me" time is never a waste of time in my book.

And Christmas, a lot of other ladies enjoy porn too.

Education is fine but allowing them to watch questionable porn isnt. By all means buy a porn dvd that you have seen and judged to be decent as education and leave it where they might happen on it when they hit that phase.

But a carte blanche regards to internet porn isnt what I'd call good education.

I never said carte blanche, I said educate. Porn isn't an acceptable method for sex education. I'm talking about discussing it. Realistically porn teaches you little about the actual act of regular sex. Realism vs fantasy should be discussed with teens, in all aspects of life, not just pertaining to sex.

Shenshen

christmas2012 wrote: »

so would you have a porn easter egg hunt type thing for your son?

My daughter.

christmas2012

Women watch porn too. Do they find it misogynistic? What if a couple decide to make a sex tape and put it on the internet? How would that be degrading to either gender

Its degrading if their boss finds it :pac: but other than that its ultimately a co decision so ya i agree its not that demeaning as other scenarios...

Scioch

Shenshen wrote: »

Well, maybe not buy it for them, they'll die of embarrassment. Buy it, and hide it somewhere they are guaranteed to find it.
Part of the imense fun of porn is the forbidden fruit element

But other than that, I couldn't agree more.

Thats what I meant yeah. Dont go wrapping it up and leaving it under the Christmas tree or anything.

M_Bovary

Shenshen wrote: »

Why would you assume only men watch porn?
I can guarantee you that this female here loves watching a bit, and I know for a fact that all my female friends do.

The only assumption was on your part. I didn't assume that women don't watch pornography, but I know that it is more common for men to watch it. With this in mind it is fair to say that a lot more pornography is targeted at a male audience, and the misogynistic element is something which pornography producers believe appeals to a male audience.

mattjack

prinz wrote: »

I don't live in a bubble, and I used to share a house with a few lads whose idea of fun was trying to -each other with what they could turn up online... so I quickly came acquainted with things like 2 girls 1 cup and so on.

That's fair enough, but I'd say most people can see that there is no connection between what your house mates idea of fun is and porn.Hardly likely they were cracking one off trying to shock each other.

Even the more extreme porn you described in your post would appeal to very few.

Jaxxy

prinz wrote: »

Jaxxy wrote: »

Teens need to be educated, not dismissed and told "NO! THAT'S DIRTY!".

When have I ever suggested otherwise? I'll tell you, nowhere.

However I would question whether unrestricted access to porn actually equates to education on sex. Does porn educate users on emotions? On feelings? On personal histories of those involved? On compromise and discussion? There's a lot more to sex education than the basic mechanics of the physical act IMO.

Sorry prinz, I believe I touched on that in my above post, it seems more than yourself picked up on the issue.

As I said, not an acceptable method of sex education at all. But I don't see the harm in discussing what is out there.

And just on another point, not all porn is degrading, involves rape or torture or anything so distasteful. And not every individual is going to gravitate towards it just because it is available.

prinz

mattjack wrote: »

That's fair enough, but I'd say most people can see that there is no connection between what your house mates idea of fun is and porn

So the fact that most of crap they looked out was to be found on porn sites was a coincidence was it?

Scioch

Jaxxy wrote: »

I never said carte blanche, I said educate. Porn isn't an acceptable method for sex education. I'm talking about discussing it. Realistically porn teaches you little about the actual act of regular sex. Realism vs fantasy should be discussed with teens, in all aspects of life, not just pertaining to sex.

I agree that discussion is the best education but you seemed to be of the opinion there was nothing wrong with porn (which I'd agree with to an extent) but kids at that age wont want to listen to what you have to say about it and will find porn. Its an awkward age where self discovery is the focus of everything they do. A little discussion will help to separate fantasy and reality but ultimately sexual discovery is a personal journey I think.

Trouble is in this day and age porn is being accessed via the internet and its impossible to shield kids from the more extreme areas of the industry.

prinz

Jaxxy wrote: »

And just on another point, not all porn is degrading, involves rape or torture or anything so distasteful. And not every individual is going to gravitate towards it just because it is available.

I never said it was, I was just questioning what a poster means when they say there is no harm whatsoever in letting young people watch porn.... like I said does that mean some porn, some genres, a certain level of hardcore, how do you police it when it comes to the net.

Jaxxy

LordSmeg wrote: »

Jaxxy wrote: »

I never said carte blanche, I said educate. Porn isn't an acceptable method for sex education. I'm talking about discussing it. Realistically porn teaches you little about the actual act of regular sex. Realism vs fantasy should be discussed with teens, in all aspects of life, not just pertaining to sex.

I agree that discussion is the best education but you seemed to be of the opinion there was nothing wrong with porn (which I'd agree with to an extent) but kids at that age wont want to listen to what you have to say about it and will find porn. Its an awkward age where self discovery is the focus of everything they do. A little discussion will help to separate fantasy and reality but ultimately sexual discovery is a personal journey I think.

Trouble is in this day and age porn is being accessed via the internet and its impossible to shield kids from the more extreme areas of the industry.

I agree, it is a very personal journey. Doesn't mean I won't try to arm any Jaxxy Juniors with as much information as I possibly can though.

Look, there are things out there that you're never going to want your teen to see. But chances are, they're going to see it at some stage. As long as they know the difference between real-life and imaginary porno world I think I'd be pleased enough.

And it's not just porn that exposes them to a new world, they're a constant source of information for each other too.

mattjack

prinz wrote: »

So the fact that most of crap they looked out was to be found on porn sites was a coincidence was it?

Easy there, I'm acknowledging your point,
most of those sites are at the best of times lowbrow.
You could probally find anything from adverts for dating/swingers , medication to enhance your performance , improve your attraction to the opposite sex etc..within a few clicks on these sites.

Scioch

mattjack wrote: »

That's fair enough, but I'd say most people can see that there is no connection between what your house mates idea of fun is and porn.Hardly likely they were cracking one off trying to shock each other.

Even the more extreme porn you described in your post would appeal to very few.

I dont think so, I think the amount of this stuff reflects the market for it. And although I have no stats on it any sizable part of the porn industry (which is absolutely huge) is nothing to be sniffed at.

Nodin

christmas2012 wrote: »

there have been reports on the rise in gang rape incidents in ireland over the last ten years

....theres might be a rise in the reporting of rape generally. That doesn't mean rape is on the increase.

christmas2012 wrote: »

Tell that to the fourteen year old boy who was watching whatever type of porn he was watching before he raped that five year old..

Im not saying the two are directly linked but i think his consumption of porn does play a role in it,

So you're saying it, but you're not saying it but your sort of saying it.

I can see you've thought this through.

Prinz wrote:

I never said it was, I was just questioning what a poster means when they say there is no harm whatsoever in letting young people watch porn.... like I said does that mean some porn, some genres, a certain level of hardcore, how do you police it when it comes to the net.

Whats that to do with the OP, exactly?

Shenshen

M_Bovary wrote: »

The only assumption was on your part. I didn't assume that women don't watch pornography, but I know that it is more common for men to watch it. With this in mind it is fair to say that a lot more pornography is targeted at a male audience, and the misogynistic element is something which pornography producers believe appeals to a male audience.

I have to assume now that you are talking about violent porn, because mainstream porn certainly is only misogynistic in focusing too much on the woman and reducing the man to mere genitalia, thereby reducing the enjoyment of this particular consumer somewhat.

mattjack

LordSmeg wrote: »

I dont think so, I think the amount of this stuff reflects the market for it. And although I have no stats on it any sizable part of the porn industry (which is absolutely huge) is nothing to be sniffed at.

Would you reckon so ? That's a good point, acknowledging the size of the industry, though would they not be niche parts of the industry ?

prinz

Nodin wrote: »

Whats that to do with the OP, exactly?

I was responding to a post. Do you have a problem with that? If you do report it.

Shenshen

prinz wrote: »

I never said it was, I was just questioning what a poster means when they say there is no harm whatsoever in letting young people watch porn.... like I said does that mean some porn, some genres, a certain level of hardcore, how do you police it when it comes to the net.

How do you police the net at all?
Education is the only practical option, I think.

Scioch

mattjack wrote: »

Would you reckon so ? That's a good point, acknowledging the size of the industry, though would they not be niche parts of the industry ?

They probably would be classed as niche markets I suppose but ad em all together and you have something pretty big. I'd say the fetish/bondage stuff on its own is probably pretty substantial.

mattjack

prinz wrote: »

I was responding to a post. Do you have a problem with that? If you do report it.

Jesus wep't, report for what, the poster is just engaging with you.

prinz

Shenshen wrote: »

How do you police the net at all?

Good question but I don't think letting them watch whatever is a solution either.

Shenshen wrote: »

Education is the only practical option, I think.

I agree 100%

mattjack

LordSmeg wrote: »

They probably would be classed as niche markets I suppose but ad em all together and you have something pretty big. I'd say the fetish/bondage stuff on its own is probably pretty substantial.

Yeah, probally... though fetish/bondage could almost be described as a separate entity altogether , almost fantasy like ?

Daveysil15

mattjack wrote: »

Yeah, probally... though fetish/bondage could almost be described as a separate entity altogether , almost fantasy like ?

A lot of this is fantasy anyway. Just the same as women fantasize over a handsome man sweeping them off their feet while watching a rom-com. Porn may give men unrealistic expectations about sex, but you could argue that rom-coms give women unrealistic expectations about relationships and life in general.

Have women been heavily influenced by Sex and the city? Do women act like glorified whores after watching this, or is it just a fantasy - a form of escapism?

Scioch

mattjack wrote: »

Yeah, probally... though fetish/bondage could almost be described as a separate entity altogether , almost fantasy like ?

I dont want to go into too much detail in case I accidentally sound like I know what I'm talking about.

I suppose fetish really describes a lot of harmless stuff too. Lickin feet and smelling farts and what have ya. But the bondage part seems pretty big to me, fantasy too but still sexual violence. Seems that way to me anyway, I dont know if its in the same category as what was mentioned before though seeing as its not aimed at degrading a woman, or is it ?

I dunno. I'm bailing out before I get the old "You seem to know an awful lot about smellin farts, lickin feet and gettin your arse reddened with a ping pong paddle!".

Time to head for shore.

Scanlas The 2nd

M_Bovary wrote: »

Shenshen wrote: »

Why would you assume only men watch porn?
I can guarantee you that this female here loves watching a bit, and I know for a fact that all my female friends do.

The only assumption was on your part. I didn't assume that women don't watch pornography, but I know that it is more common for men to watch it. With this in mind it is fair to say that a lot more pornography is targeted at a male audience, and the misogynistic element is something which pornography producers believe appeals to a male audience.

Describe the misogynistic elements?

mattjack

Daveysil15 wrote: »

A lot of this is fantasy anyway. Just the same as women fantasize over a handsome man sweeping them off their feet while watching a rom-com. Porn may give men unrealistic expectations about sex, but you could argue that rom-coms give women unrealistic expectations about relationships and life in general.

Have women been heavily influenced by Sex and the city? Do women act like glorified whores after watching this, or is it just a fantasy - a form of escapism?

Unless you're married to a porn star, not that I am ..

prinz

Daveysil15 wrote: »

Have women been heavily influenced by Sex and the city?

I know a few who have :pac: well not so much since the recession kicked in.

Jaxxy

prinz wrote: »

Daveysil15 wrote: »

Have women been heavily influenced by Sex and the city?

I know a few who have :pac: well not so much since the recession kicked in.

Well there's one positive to the recession!

mitosis

christmas2012 wrote: »

gang rape porn is all over the internet,torture porn etc,its everywhere..

I must not be looking in the right places...........

christmas2012

there are themes of rape and torture porn in a lot of them now,and people can go look obviously the snuff rape/murder stuff would be harder to find,and you could get a conviction for it too..

mrduffy

the parents or guardians should have been convicted in this case they provided a service not fit for the kid in the civilised europe.

philologos

People are personally responsible for whatever they do. Society is responsible for creating a climate whereby people are widely regarded as sexual objects rather than human beings. A huge and significant part of that climate is pornography.

christmas2012

the parents or guardians should have been convicted in this case they provided a service not fit for the kid in the civilised europe.

no i think that lets the kid off the hook,and whos going to be the guardian in the meantime,just chuck them into care?more cost to the state..

Eggy Baby!

M_Bovary wrote: »

Pornography usually seems to have a very strong misogynistic vibe.

I agree with you somewhat here, but there is also "Porn for ladies" that is straight.

It also illustrates the deep insecurity within the psyche of these men.

..but no. That's honestly a load of crap. People from all walks of life watch and enjoy porn. What happens if women watch porn? Are they insecure too?

How are men insecure from watching sexually gratifying videos/pictures? Is it not natural? By your logic, to sate sexual desire in general makes a person insecure. So everybody who has sex is insecure?

Have you ever watched porn? Does that make you insecure?

Society is responsible for creating a climate whereby people are widely regarded as sexual objects rather than human beings. A huge and significant part of that climate is pornography.

Come on. As if people were never viewed as sex objects before pornography took off.

mrduffy

christmas2012 wrote: »

no i think that lets the kid off the hook,and whos going to be the guardian in the meantime,just chuck them into care?more cost to the state..

a little girl has lost her life at 5 and may never full fill her potential in school, relationships or be a stable mother with her own children. This will cost state more in the long term.

If parents had been convicted a lot of parents would check the history of what child is looking at on internet or installed software that restricts over 18 content ! the child got off and it will only lead to more and less awareness

validusername1

the person who does the raping is to blame, not porn. it's not porn's fault that certain people are so sick. back in the days before the internet and things of that sort when porn wasn't as popular/didn't exist, i'm sure rapes still happened a lot. what did they try to blame then??
it's the rapist's fault, end of

christmas2012

I know and understand that rape and murder has always been there,but what im talking about is the casual disregard these children have to set up gang rape initiations..Something is going wrong..

mrduffy

validusername1 wrote: »

the person who does the raping is to blame, not porn. it's not porn's fault that certain people are so sick. back in the days before the internet and things of that sort when porn wasn't as popular/didn't exist, i'm sure rapes still happened a lot. what did they try to blame then??
it's the rapist's fault, end of

I agree the rapist is at fault and should be charged some one has to be charged for this crime it must be offal for that girl and her family

blacklilly

This kid that rapped the 5year old is exactly that....a kid,yes we could argue that at his age he should know / understand right from wrong. However if his viewing of porn was his first experience into sexuality / sex then it is not illogical to say that porn may have somehow warped his mind. If he was watching porn which was based around the "fantasy" of rough sex / forced sex then in his mind consciously or not this may seem somewhat normal.
These scenes may have aroused him and therefore he tried to re enact the scene he witnessed to gain arousel.
Porn can have a negative impact on adults never mind minors anyone who suggests that there are no negative side effects of viewing porn is mistaken.
Im not saying porn is necessarily bad but for certain people it may lead them to carry out acts they otherwise wouldn't.

woodoo

The little s**tbag should have got 10 years. I don't buy this he is only a kid nonsense. Most 14 year olds know right from wrong. Anyway the fact that he raped a 5 year old means he is likely a pedophile and jail or 6 feet under is the best place for them.