Who would get mixed up in Scientology?

Biggins

Wibbs wrote: »

I don't buy this lazy(IMHO) comparison between scientology and religions like Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, etc that seems to reduce the argument to "ahh sure they're all the same, they were all cults once". Not quite. Even in the earliest stages of say Christianity they weren't pulling the kind of guff scientology does. For a start at no point in the other world faiths did you have to write a cheque for attending your local church, mosque or temple. Sure you could donate, but there isn't a pricelist in your local church. The Catholic church tried that for a time with indulgences and got the reformation on their arses for it. Even then you didn't have to pay if you didn't want to.

Even if we suggest that scientology is the same, do we really need another one? Especially one as threatening and insidious as this one? Hell no. We certainly not one cooked up by a third rate, paranoid, drug addled eejit like Hubbard. Remove the elements of magical thinking involved and line up Jesus, Muhammed, Buddha and Hubbard in a room and Stevie wonder on a bad day could win a spot the difference competition.

Amen.

...And on the topic of the latest cult tactics and death, they are trying to kill off media content now in opposition to their latest exposure.
Plus they have suffered a death - but that isn't stopping them from still carrying out their "Disconnection" tactics against related families.
(See my sig' if you wish to learn more)

Now tell me the best (or the worse?) of the more genuine religions, operate on this evil level!

There is a huge difference.

I am pie

This is all a bit disappointing, I was looking forward to hearing someone come along and attempt to build a case for the defence. One of my favourite parts is that they believe the billions of aliens who got blown up in a volcano where transported here on space planes...which look like DC-8's, but with no engines. Marvellous. I never quite understood where aul L Ron 'officially' got his story from.

sbsquarepants

I'm not sure, but at a guess i'd say the drugs could have had a lot to do with it!!:D

I am pie

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I'm not sure, but at a guess i'd say the drugs could have had a lot to do with it!!:D

They don't make em like they used to. That is some potent stuff right there..

Biggins

I am pie wrote: »

This is all a bit disappointing, I was looking forward to hearing someone come along and attempt to build a case for the defence. One of my favourite parts is that they believe the billions of aliens who got blown up in a volcano where transported here on space planes...which look like DC-8's, but with no engines. Marvellous. I never quite understood where aul L Ron 'officially' got his story from.

For accuracy:

Their cult belief is we are all infected with the dead souls of ancient evil aliens that had been brainwashed by another alien warlord (who lived for 80 Trillion years), who had previously dumped their bodies around an Earth volcano, before dumping a hydrogen bomb into it!
...And for all the above information - by the time you get through all their invented levels - you will have been charged hundreds and hundreds of thousands of pounds!

Lucky you!

sbsquarepants

Biggins wrote: »

Now tell me the best (or the worse?) of the more genuine religions, operate on this evil level!
.

Surely biggins, you jest!
Fatwas, child abuse scandals, death for apostates, adulterers, blasphemers and so on and so forth. The "more genuine"* religions, have done an awful lot worse, for an awful lot longer.


* oxymoron of the year ward nominee!

Biggins

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Surely biggins, you jest!
Fatwas, child abuse scandals, death for apostates, adulterers, blasphemers and so on and so forth. The "more genuine"* religions, have done an awful lot worse, for an awful lot longer.

* oxymoron of the year ward nominee!

Indeed - all bad at times, throughout previous time. No argument.

However I would say that at present modern day level, the cult's tactics are far, far worse than the genuine religions today, in a lot of ways.

You DO have a valid point though.

Kinski

Biggins wrote: »

...And for all the above information - by the time you get through all their invented levels - you will have been charged hundreds and hundreds of thousands of pounds!

Lucky you!

I read an account somewhere by a former member, who said that when this "secret" was revealed to him, his first reaction was incredulity...but that only lasted a spilt-second, and he began convincing himself this was all indeed true.

I guess by the time this is revealed to members, they're so heavily-invested, financially and personally, in the organisation, they have to convince themselves this is true (there's a statistic that doomsday cults can falsely predict the end of the world three times before followers will start walking away.)

But Scientology's "secrets" are all over the internet now - fewer people are likely to sign-up when they can read this beforehand. I doubt it has much of a future in the long run.

sbsquarepants

Biggins wrote: »

For accuracy:

Their cult belief is we are all infected with the dead souls of ancient evil aliens that had been brainwashed by another alien warlord (who lived for 80 Trillion years), who had previously dumped their bodies around an Earth volcano, before dumping a hydrogen bomb into it!
...And for all the above information - by the time you get through all their invented levels - you will have been charged hundreds and hundreds of thousands of pounds!

Lucky you!

That's obviously mental. What really happened was there was this hippy, now he's obviously a lot older than this 80 trillion year old youngster, now what he done is he made the entire universe, took him a week or so. He made 2 people, a man and a woman and put them in paradise, the only rule was they couldn't touch his favourite apple tree, but unfortunately as luck would have it, a talking snake got in their ear and they got fúcked out, they then had 2 sons and we are all descended from them, somehow........
Biggins, face facts they are both as fúcking mental as each other!!!

Biggins

Kinski wrote: »

I read an account somewhere by a former member, who said that when this "secret" was revealed to him, his first reaction was incredulity...but that only lasted a spilt-second, and he began convincing himself this was all indeed true.

I guess by the time this is revealed to members, they're so heavily-invested, financially and personally, in the organisation, they have to convince themselves this is true (there's a statistic that doomsday cults can falsely predict the end of the world three times before followers will start walking away.)

But Scientology's "secrets" are all over the internet now - fewer people are likely to sign-up when they can read this beforehand. I doubt it has much of a future in the long run.

When you get to the top levels - and thus earn the privilege to read the ultimate Ron Hubbard secret, they put you into a locked room and give you a copy of Hubbards inner most secret writings (which consist of this alien and H-bomb garbage).

They claim that cult members are not allowed to find out such 'secrets' at the start of their enrolment into the cult, because their minds wouldn't be able to handle such important information - in other words, new members might (should!) see through the stupidity of it all.

sbsquarepants wrote: »

That's obviously mental. What really happened was there was this hippy, now he's obviously a lot older than this 80 trillion year old youngster...

Biggins, face facts they are both as fúcking mental as each other!!!

Well look at it this way, they at Scientology Inc' and the religious creationists would have a good old argument over the 'years' thing alone!

FIGHT!!! :pac:

This thread should really be in the Massively Multiplayer section

sbsquarepants

Biggins wrote: »

Indeed - all bad at times, throughout previous time. No argument.

However I would say that at present modern day level, the cult's tactics are far, far worse than the genuine religions today, in a lot of ways.

You DO have a valid point though.

I would agree with you, but kinda i see it as a case of them having to be to catch up with the big boys!
They are slimy insidious organisations, no argument there. But in my opinion so are the more established religions. I honestly believe the world would be a better place without any religion of any description. All we need to turn this place into a paradise is ethics, morality and decency and as far as i can tell religion, any religion, is a piss poor teacher of any of those things.

Biggins

sbsquarepants wrote: »

...I honestly believe the world would be a better place without any religion of any description. All we need to turn this place into a paradise is ethics, morality and decency and as far as i can tell religion, any religion, is a piss poor teacher of any of those things.

I 100% agree.

forfuxsake

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Believing in santa as a child is fine, as an adult it's crazy!

Agreed. Believing in an afterlife though is not crazy it's human. To say that most people are crazy is crazy. That you and I believe there is no afterlife doesn't mean that those who do believe are crazy.

sbsquarepants

Biggins wrote: »

Well look at it this way, they at Scientology Inc' and the religious creationists would have a good old argument over the 'years' thing alone!

FIGHT!!! :pac:

As with all extremists the truth lies somewhere in the middle. So i say the world is somewhere between 6 thousand and 80 trillion years old.
And i'm absolutely sure of that!!:D

sbsquarepants

forfuxsake wrote: »

Agreed. Believing in an afterlife though is not crazy it's human. To say that most people are crazy is crazy. That you and I believe there is no afterlife doesn't mean that those who do believe are crazy.

That is a very good point!
So if they aren't the crazy ones, does that mean ..........:eek: Shít!!!

JohnMarston

Biggins wrote: »

Well look at it this way, they at Scientology Inc' and the religious creationists would have a good old argument over the 'years' thing alone!

FIGHT!!! :pac:

I want to put Scientologys leader and the most outspoken creationist in the world in a cage match. Whoever loses shuts up forever.

Biggins

JohnMarston wrote: »

I want to put Scientologys leader and the most outspoken creationist in the world in a cage match. Whoever loses shuts up forever.

The cults current (and for some time) head is David Miscavige.
He reportedly (many reports) has a fierce temper and many statements have been made that he is used to fighting/beating members - so I suspect sadly that the cult would win out in a fight!

Fuinseog

Nancy Cartwright, the voice of Bart Simpson belongs to this cult. she was welcomed here a year or two ago

McChubbin

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Surely biggins, you jest!
Fatwas, child abuse scandals, death for apostates, adulterers, blasphemers and so on and so forth. The "more genuine"* religions, have done an awful lot worse, for an awful lot longer.


* oxymoron of the year ward nominee!

F'uck the Chantry!

EoghanIRL

Scientology members need to be sent to
The camps. I mean seriously what a load of rubbish. And all the celebrities joing aswell. Are celebs just asking to be mocked by south park

LH Pathe

Dem chemtrails.. sedatin' us....

Funglegunk

In transition year we had a guy come to our school to warn us of the dangers of cults, in particular Scientology. About a week later Scientologists were calling up the school claiming the guy was basically a paedophile. Mad stuff.

Snowie

Ye just as stupid to bye into Catholicism....

Or even claim you are even tho you don't go to church.....

Rasheed

Snowie wrote: »

Ye just as stupid to bye into Catholicism....

Or even claim you are even tho you don't go to church.....

Ah come on now, slight difference. You aren't forced to pay thousands of euro to be accepted or saved in Catholicism and I could go on. Comparing the two is ridiculous.

Scanlas The 2nd

forfuxsake wrote: »

Methinks this is gonna be the end of Tommy Cruise.

He's gay - who gives a fúck?
He's a scientologist -ok he's weird but essentially most people still don't give a fúck?
Dirty nasty divorce when he tries to take a beautiful little child away from her brave (and beautiful) mother in a bitter public fight = people gonna start giving a fúck and I for one could certainly stop going to the cinema, renting his dvds being arsed downloading his movies.

The media has begun the job of destroying him and I'm getting me popcorn.

Taking pleasure in other people's suffering doesn't sit well with me.

Biggins

Funglegunk wrote: »

In transition year we had a guy come to our school to warn us of the dangers of cults, in particular Scientology. About a week later Scientologists were calling up the school claiming the guy was basically a paedophile. Mad stuff.

Absolute standard procedure.

Any person that is opposition to them is a "suppressive person" (SP) and the practice of "fair game" is applied when all else (usually the lawyers) fails.

ENEMY..........SP Order. Fair game. May be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed.

See here:http://www.xenu.net/fairgame-e.html
And as the creator of that website has also noted:

When brought up, they often try to change the subject and for example attack you, asking what criminal acts you have on your conscience or if you are payed by the drug cartells or something. According to Scientology all critics of Scientology are criminals...

The cult has since denied they are doing this but there are just far too many examples of this in the hundreds, if not thousands that show them to be liars.

By the way, no doubt they are continuously monitoring this thread currently too.
I'm known to them, as they are to me.

Shenshen

Rasheed wrote: »

Ah come on now, slight difference. You aren't forced to pay thousands of euro to be accepted or saved in Catholicism and I could go on. Comparing the two is ridiculous.

They're just more subtle... How else could they keep their popes and bishops in silk and gold?

c_man

Rasheed wrote: »

Ah come on now, slight difference. You aren't forced to pay thousands of euro to be accepted or saved in Catholicism and I could go on. Comparing the two is ridiculous.

One is just newer is all. Why does the money aspect make them particularly different? Both are exceedingly wealthy from the money of their followers.

stanley1

nicky hopkins, ace session piano man, rolling stones, lennon etc.

AngeGal

Funglegunk wrote: »

In transition year we had a guy come to our school to warn us of the dangers of cults, in particular Scientology. About a week later Scientologists were calling up the school claiming the guy was basically a paedophile. Mad stuff.

Having watched some of the clips that seems to be their first line of attach, anyone who attacks them likes little boys apparently.

Germany is the most hostile European country towards the 'religion', you can't be a member of a political party if you are a member of scientology and other job restrictions too. They considered banning it outright a couple of years ago aswell and had seventy percent public support for it, but didn't pull the trigger in the end.

Not quite sure if I would like to see it 'banned'. Don't get me wrong, its complete nonsense and people definitely need to be educated about their tricks but it's a slippery slope when the Govt. starts to ban such things.

AngeGal

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

Taking pleasure in other people's suffering doesn't sit well with me.

I will take pleasure in it if it results even one less person joining the cult that he fronts for.

Pantsface

This is a great read: "The top 25 people crippling Scientology"

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/09/l_ron_hubbard_top_25_crippling_scientology.php

Biggins

A full list of countries that have banned, partially banned or (sadly) accepted it is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_status_by_country

More important is also that many have not recognised it as a religion!
They have seen it for what it really is. Scientology Incorporated.

Sappa

Biggins wrote: »

JohnMarston wrote: »

I want to put Scientologys leader and the most outspoken creationist in the world in a cage match. Whoever loses shuts up forever.

The cults current (and for some time) head is David Miscavige.
He reportedly (many reports) has a fierce temper and many statements have been made that he is used to fighting/beating members - so I suspect sadly that the cult would win out in a fight!

Didn't his wife go missing recently and no one knows whether she is alive or in hiding,seems very strange.

emzolita

c_man wrote: »

One is just newer is all. Why does the money aspect make them particularly different? Both are exceedingly wealthy from the money of their followers.

i've never paid a penny to the church and im a catholic.
I heard they're having Katie Holmes followed and all, it's so sinister how they can publicly bully people....So interesting though.

Pantsface

Sappa wrote: »

Didn't his wife go missing recently and no one knows whether she is alive or in hiding,seems very strange.

Not seen since 06 / 07 I think

c_man

emzolita wrote: »

i've never paid a penny to the church and im a catholic.

That being so (you never give to the collection or the envelopes through the door? You mustn't be getting a good mass :pac: ) you can't deny that the church is raking in the cash from its followers. Same as the other crowd and 99% of religions.

Rasheed

Shenshen wrote: »

They're just more subtle... How else could they keep their popes and bishops in silk and gold?

Well my parish and I don't. I give a few euro at the gate to a local cause and a few euro in my envelope for church upkeep. Nobody follows me to buy books, rosary beads, special blessings etc. If I never gave a cent, I'd still be welcome to mass.

Biggins

Sappa wrote: »

Didn't his wife go missing recently and no one knows whether she is alive or in hiding,seems very strange.

Yes, supposedly she was supposed to be staying at Gold Camp at one stage but is reported as missing.
She hasn't been seen in a long time.
The current glorious leader had recently have more of his own family escape from the camp and religion. See here.

A religious camp that comes with barbed wire, spikes facing inwards to keep people in rather than out, armed guards and a sniper bunker to observe people within (in case they try to make a break for it?).

grenache

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Similar thing happened to me a few years ago!

Some guy was standing outside Supermacs on o'connell street. Me and my then girlfriend were walking in his direction. Cue the "would you like a free personality test?" I didnt want too. She did. We end up doing it :rolleyes:

Was a paper and pen 'test' but some of the questions were just weird.... "would it take a definite act to kill yourself?" Yes or No.

Then I noticed some dvds on the wall. With big writing that said "L. ron hubbard" ... Have to thank south park cause I then quietly said to the gf we're getting the f**k outta here.

I was offered the Dianetics Personality test outside Supermacs too. I'd been eating inside and noticed this obscure looking guy standing outside, eyeing people up. Myself included. I obviously looked vunerable, or so he thought. Give him short shrift when he approached me. I new immediately he was a Scientologist. Told him i wasn't interested in joining money making cults. The look on his face was priceless.

I don't understand why they're allowed operate. They are clearly a scam cult preying on vunerable people. They are nothing more than scum.

CodyJarrett

The thing is: Scientology is responsible for many people achieving their goals.

Goes without saying that it has destroyed lives (and then some) but if Tom Cruise (for example) had not adopted the beliefs of Scientology, he would most likely have just been another forgotten member of the brat pack as (from his own comments in interveiws) he was a mess mentally and emotionally.

So, how does he reconcile that in his own head? How could he ever question something that has brought him so much? It has become the very fabric of his being and resulted in him living a life that most people could only dream of.

If a belief system I adopted resulted in me living the life he lives, not sure I would ever question it tbh, as the results would be all the proof I needed that what L.Ron was right.

dark crystal

Pantsface wrote: »

This is a great read: "The top 25 people crippling Scientology"

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/09/l_ron_hubbard_top_25_crippling_scientology.php

That was a genuinely interesting article. Cheers for that.

Pantsface

whiplashed wrote: »

The thing is: Scientology is responsible for many people achieving their goals.

Goes without saying that it has destroyed lives (and then some) but if Tom Cruise (for example) had not adopted the beliefs of Scientology, he would most likely have just been another forgotten member of the brat pack as (from his own comments in interveiws) he was a mess mentally and emotionally.

So, how does he reconcile that in his own head? How could he ever question something that has brought him so much? It has become the very fabric of his being and resulted in him living a life that most people could only dream of.

If a belief system I adopted resulted in me living the life he lives, not sure I would ever question it tbh, as the results would be all the proof I needed that what L.Ron was right.

When Cruise married Kidman he pretty much left the cult for 10 years, he got dragged back in after the divorce.

He did pretty good on his own for those 10 years IMO

The King of Moo

whiplashed wrote: »

The thing is: Scientology is responsible for many people achieving their goals.

Goes without saying that it has destroyed lives (and then some) but if Tom Cruise (for example) had not adopted the beliefs of Scientology, he would most likely have just been another forgotten member of the brat pack as (from his own comments in interveiws) he was a mess mentally and emotionally.

So, how does he reconcile that in his own head? How could he ever question something that has brought him so much? It has become the very fabric of his being and resulted in him living a life that most people could only dream of.

If a belief system I adopted resulted in me living the life he lives, not sure I would ever question it tbh, as the results would be all the proof I needed that what L.Ron was right.

I think you can chalk his success up to his considerable acting talent and charisma, which none of the other members of the Brat Pack had to anywhere close to the same extent.

But of course Scientology are going to tell him that his success is down to them, rather than his own talents.

Biggins

whiplashed wrote: »

The thing is: Scientology is responsible for many people achieving their goals.

Thats a total misconception.

People have reportedly been helped - but by the cults use of the process called "Dianetics".

There are other non-Scientology orgs that use the same "Dianetics" process but don't do the disgusting, money rip-off, family splitting, bullying, that they do.

O' and the nutcase Hubbard, actually stole the idea!
See:
* http://www.lermanet.com/sources.htm
* http://www.lermanet.com/reference/whyworse.htm
* http://www.lermanet.com/scientology/scientologyandcommunism.htm

dark crystal

whiplashed wrote: »

The thing is: Scientology is responsible for many people achieving their goals.

It's not, though. They would just have you believe that.

Goes without saying that it has destroyed lives (and then some) but if Tom Cruise (for example) had not adopted the beliefs of Scientology, he would most likely have just been another forgotten member of the brat pack as (from his own comments in interveiws) he was a mess mentally and emotionally.

Tom Cruise did not publicly embrace Scientology until around 1990, so by then he was already a huge star.

Biggins

dark crystal wrote: »

It's not, though. They would just have you believe that.

Tom Cruise did not publicly embrace Scientology until around 1990, so by then he was already a huge star.

Both totally correct and right.

Shenshen

Rasheed wrote: »

Well my parish and I don't. I give a few euro at the gate to a local cause and a few euro in my envelope for church upkeep. Nobody follows me to buy books, rosary beads, special blessings etc. If I never gave a cent, I'd still be welcome to mass.

As I said, if that were the case, church officials wouldn't walk round in expensive frocks, wouldn't drive round in expensive cars, and wouldn't be able to adorn tneir temples n gold, jewels and expensive art.
They're not working, and the money must be coming from somewhere.

Rasheed

Shenshen wrote: »

As I said, if that were the case, church officials wouldn't walk round in expensive frocks, wouldn't drive round in expensive cars, and wouldn't be able to adorn tneir temples n gold, jewels and expensive art.
They're not working, and the money must be coming from somewhere.

Must be a miracle!