Who would get mixed up in Scientology?

DEFTLEFTHAND

Shenshen wrote: »

As I said, if that were the case, church officials wouldn't walk round in expensive frocks, wouldn't drive round in expensive cars, and wouldn't be able to adorn tneir temples n gold, jewels and expensive art.
They're not working, and the money must be coming from somewhere.

They've a huge following who contribute to their financial upkeep, as well as multiple other revenue streams and business interests. The RCC is a mega global corporation. They don't however force their followers to hand over money to them, so its not really fair to compare them to Scientology.

Biggins

I've kept out of the Rome V's Scientology debate because up to now, frankly in present day terms is there really is no comparison.
* I want it on record that I am NOT a fan of the current Rome Org either, just to be clear.

The truth is that in the past, various popes in Rome have committed terrible crimes and have taken and taken much wealth for the people under various guises.
This is fact and cannot be argued with. The Rome Org's previous history is a coloured one and thats putting it mildly. Their crimes are much. End of story.

---

We are now dealing in the present tense though. We are dealing with today and tomorrow. We cannot change the past.

For as bad as Rome was - right now they do not:

* have policy of attacking viciously, slandering to the point of openly calling people criminals and perverts (yes, I know, ironic) any critics of their organisation, it retorts against.

* They don't have a policy of "fair game". All enemies (SP's - Suppressive Persons) must be attacked by any means possible.

* They don't make you cough up front for every bit of teaching that YOU MUST do with the cult, in order to progress.

* They do not have a policy of splitting up families called "Disconnection" or anything of similar name - unlike the cult.

* They do not have a naval wing - unlike the cult (Sea Org).

* They do have have 'camps' in which reportedly more effort is used to keep the people in that trying to keep people out.

* Rome has not stolen other peoples ideas/theories and passed them off as their own, for the sake of MASSIVE profit!

* They do not stalk and trail people everywhere, harass their families and damages connected business by the use of inner members and hired goons.

* They do not run work agencies and other services under various subsidiary names (to hide from various countries government regulations and banning orders)

* They do not have an official celebrity section!

* They do not produce countless regurgitated 'bibles' just for the same of making more money - whereas the cult does for their Hubbard scribblings "O' you must buy this gold edged copy if you are a loyal member. The price is..."
(Then six months later they produce yet another version!)
...Ka-ching!!!

* Rome doesn't steal other religions symbols and use them to make their own profit making org look like a religion more so!

* Rome does not espouse that gayness is a mental illness and that they have the cure!

* Rome doesn't espouse that the holocaust that sadly happened in Europe, in WW2, was all made up and a con!

* Rome doesn't have a daft process of getting people to hold on to two pieces of metal tubes and claim these tubes can read ones inner thoughts!

* Rome doesn't have countless bunkers in camps that are reportedly filled with weapons!

* Rome doesn't have a policy of denying drugs to sick people!

* Rome doesn't have entire block of investigators and a genuine dirty tricks, official organisation like the (The Office Of Special Affairs), the cult runs with its headquarters in Hemet, California, operating worldwide.

* Rome does not kidnap people!

* Rome' does not commit criminal activities committed on behalf of the church for advancement and/or profit - unlike the cult. For example see: Operation Snow White, Operation Freakout.

There are MANY more reasons why in the present day, there is absolutely NO comparison between other GENUINE religions of today that includes the one in Rome, with the cult/business of Scientology Inc'.

For anyone to say different, shows just how much they are uninformed.

If someone espouses that "O' well they all take money, then they are all the same!" - its exposes their inability to see present important major differences and frankly is stupidity in action, by tarring all with the same brush!

holystungun9

Biggins wrote: »

I've kept out of the Rome V's Scientology debate because up to now, frankly in present day terms is there really is no comparison.
* I want it on record that I am NOT a fan of the current Rome Org either, just to be clear.

The truth is that in the past, various popes in Rome have committed terrible crimes and have taken and taken much wealth for the people under various guises.
This is fact and cannot be argued with. The Rome Org's previous history is a coloured one and thats putting it mildly. Their crimes are much. End of story.

---

We are now dealing in the present tense though. We are dealing with today and tomorrow. We cannot change the past.

For as bad as Rome was - right now they do not:

* have policy of attacking viciously, slandering to the point of openly calling people criminals and perverts (yes, I know, ironic) any critics of their organisation, it retorts against.

* They don't have a policy of "fair game". All enemies (SP's - Suppressive Persons) must be attacked by any means possible.

* They don't make you cough up front for every bit of teaching that YOU MUST do with the cult, in order to progress.

* They do not have a policy of splitting up families called "Disconnection" or anything of similar name - unlike the cult.

* They do not have a naval wing - unlike the cult (Sea Org).

* They do have have 'camps' in which reportedly more effort is used to keep the people in that trying to keep people out.

* Rome has not stolen other peoples ideas/theories and passed them off as their own, for the sake of MASSIVE profit!

* They do not stalk and trail people everywhere, harass their families and damages connected business by the use of inner members and hired goons.

* They do not run work agencies and other services under various subsidiary names (to hide from various countries government regulations and banning orders)

* They do not have an official celebrity section!

* They do not produce countless regurgitated 'bibles' just for the same of making more money - whereas the cult does for their Hubbard scribblings "O' you must buy this gold edged copy if you are a loyal member. The price is..."
(Then six months later they produce yet another version!)
...Ka-ching!!!

* Rome doesn't steal other religions symbols and use them to make their own profit making org look like a religion more so!

* Rome does not espouse that gayness is a mental illness and that they have the cure!

* Rome doesn't espouse that the holocaust that sadly happened in Europe, in WW2, was all made up and a con!

* Rome doesn't have a daft process of getting people to hold on to two pieces of metal tubes and claim these tubes can read ones inner thoughts!

* Rome doesn't have countless bunkers in camps that are reportedly filled with weapons!

* Rome doesn't have a policy of denying drugs to sick people!

* Rome doesn't have entire block of investigators and a genuine dirty tricks, official organisation like the (The Office Of Special Affairs), the cult runs with its headquarters in Clearwater, operating world wide.

* Rome does not kidnap people!

* Rome' does not commit criminal activities committed on behalf of the church for advancement and/or profit - unlike the cult. For example see: Operation Snow White, Operation Freakout.

There are MANY more reasons why in the present day, there is absolutely NO comparison between other GENUINE religions of today that includes the one in Rome, with the cult/business of Scientology Inc'.

For anyone to say different, shows just how much they are uninformed.

If someone espouses that "O' well they all take money, then they are all the same!" - its exposes their inability to see major differences and frankly is stupid in action, by tarring all with the same brush!

Yes, oh bearded one.

Biggins

holystungun9 wrote: »

Yes, oh bearded one.

narfsnonsense

Biggins - any suggested documentaries?

ZeitgeistGlee

Came across them when I was in Melbourne a few years ago. They had a rather pretty girl outside the "Temple" encouraging people to go inside and take a survey. I got chatting to her and she seemed perfectly pleasant, even a bit flirty, not realising what she was part of until I caught spy of the Scientology sign rather carefully obscured from plain sight. Needless to say I very politely extricated myself, bemoaning a merciless schedule, and moved as quickly as I could away.

I'm not a religious person, but try to respect people's right to believe in something to the best of my ability. But groups like this who are so clearly in it for the money, and have destroyed so many lives in the process, I really wish something could be done about them.

Biggins

narfsnonsense wrote: »

Biggins - any suggested documentaries?

Certainly - the bottom of the two Youtube video's HERE is a good introduction.

BroomBurner

Biggins wrote: »

We are now dealing in the present tense though. We are dealing with today and tomorrow. We cannot change the past.

You should read up on the case of Sanal Edamaruku, the head of the Indian Rationalist Association, who debunked a supposed "miracle" of holy water coming from a statue that people were led to believe would cure them. He investigated and found that it was a backed-up and leaking pipe from nearby washrooms. Leaders of two Catholic groups have filed charges against him for "deliberately hurting religious feelings and attempting malicious acts intended to outrage the religious sentiments of any class or community" (the full interview is in New Scientist No. 2871).

While you can argue that if such law exists in a country, its down to the government. However, the catholic groups are more than happy to use this law to attempt to have a scientist prosecuted for saving people from drinking water that may have been contaminated. Thankfully, the man himself doesn't believe he would be prosecuted under a trial.

Sorry, I also despise the named cult that's being discussed, but seeing as you're talking about present-day catholicism being not as bad, thought I would bring the above to your attention. They might not be as bad in this country, but in developing nations, and third world countries (see all evidence about their refusal to allow condoms and its affect) then they really are as bad as Scientology.

Biggins

BroomBurner wrote: »

...Sorry, I also despise the named cult that's being discussed, but seeing as you're talking about present-day catholicism being not as bad, thought I would bring the above to your attention. They might not be as bad in this country, but in developing nations, and third world countries (see all evidence about their refusal to allow condoms and its affect) then they really are as bad as Scientology.

Said with good respect to yourself, I disagree with your last seven words.
You do have a valid point about Rome in the past centuries and a few of their activities even today - but in terms of crime, out and out brainwashing methods, money extraction processes, besides how they treat their own members never mind outsiders, there is still a huge difference.

We must agree to disagree.

Shryke

BroomBurner wrote: »

Biggins wrote: »

We are now dealing in the present tense though. We are dealing with today and tomorrow. We cannot change the past.

You should read up on the case of Sanal Edamaruku, the head of the Indian Rationalist Association, who debunked a supposed "miracle" of holy water coming from a statue that people were led to believe would cure them. He investigated and found that it was a backed-up and leaking pipe from nearby washrooms. Leaders of two Catholic groups have filed charges against him for "deliberately hurting religious feelings and attempting malicious acts intended to outrage the religious sentiments of any class or community" (the full interview is in New Scientist No. 2871).

While you can argue that if such law exists in a country, its down to the government. However, the catholic groups are more than happy to use this law to attempt to have a scientist prosecuted for saving people from drinking water that may have been contaminated. Thankfully, the man himself doesn't believe he would be prosecuted under a trial.

Sorry, I also despise the named cult that's being discussed, but seeing as you're talking about present-day catholicism being not as bad, thought I would bring the above to your attention. They might not be as bad in this country, but in developing nations, and third world countries (see all evidence about their refusal to allow condoms and its affect) then they really are as bad as Scientology.

No they are not. You're implying an episode of only fools and horses is as bad as scientology. It's like you haven't read the thread at all.
Contraception was approved of in Africa by the church a few years back wasn't it?

CodyJarrett

dark crystal wrote: »

It's not, though. They would just have you believe that.

I am referring to Tom's own words, not what the Scientology organisation has stated.

Tom Cruise did not publicly embrace Scientology until around 1990, so by then he was already a huge star.

Doesn't matter whether he embraced it publicly or not, the fact is that he was adopting the teachings of Scientology to overcome dyslexia and family issues before he hit became box office.

The King of Moo wrote: »

I think you can chalk his success up to his considerable acting talent and charisma, which none of the other members of the Brat Pack had to anywhere close to the same extent.

Nobody would watch TAPS, Risky Business etc and think that this kid was gonna be a big star. If he had faded into obscurity, nobody would have blinked an eye. I am not denying his talent, just saying that talent and potential alone do nothing unless there is a driving will to succeed and Cruise has stated that Scientology is what helped him with his problems and had him striving for further success.

But of course Scientology are going to tell him that his success is down to them, rather than his own talents.

Of course and as I said in my opening post, they have "destroyed lives".

Users are replying to my post as if I have said Scientology works. If people read it again you will see that I am not saying that at all. What I am saying is that Cruise used these teachings and they have been successful for him and so it is understandable that he can see no wrong in it, as he has had amazing results by applying their techniques to his life.

Only he can truly know what worked for him and what didn't and there is a fine tapestry to life, pull one thread of anything that we have partaken in in our lives and it all falls apart and whether people like it or not, Scientology has been a massive part of his life and he is a successful guy.

You can't just say that: "Oh well, he was talented and so that would have happened anyway".

Again, for those wanting to jump down my throat: I am NOT saying that the teachings of Scientology are something that people should adopt in their lives, just that for those that have done so and achieved stunningly positive results, you can understand their reluctance and hesitancy when they hear negative comments being directed at it.

It's like the Catholic Church: many people have adopted it's teachings and lived excellent lives as a result. It has given them peace, strength and hope in times of distress, without which they may have folded at tough times in their lives. That doesn't negate the negative aspects of the Church, but the negative aspects also don't negate the positive results that some people attribute to having applied it's teachings throughout their daily lives.

The Church of Scientology of course wants people (like Cruise) to put all their positive achievements down to having applied it's "tools" to their member's decision making in life, it means more money for them at the end of the day but the positive results from using the Church's teachings are still life changing for certain people and whether they would have occurred without the Church's help or not is irrelevant, as in their mind, they wouldn't.

That is biggest obstacle for those (I being one of them) who would like to see this particular Church being disbanded. Cruise & Co are walking billboards for this religion and when they make statements that, had they not have applied the Church's teachings to their life then they would not have been nearly as successful, then people sit up and listen. Especially when it comes from someone like Tom Cruise.

Kirsty Alley must have been the antithesis of all that considering she couldn't even be successful in losing fecking weight of course.

BroomBurner

Shryke wrote: »

No they are not. You're implying an episode of only fools and horses is as bad as scientology. It's like you haven't read the thread at all.
Contraception was approved of in Africa by the church a few years back wasn't it?

No, I fully understand that where Rome differs is that it has history, it is built on the deaths and thievery from centuries, but one of Biggins' point was that they don't try to intimidate people in the same manner in the present day. I would suggest that trying to ruin someone's career and have them imprisoned is most definitely intimidation.

Also, didn't Rome change the rules recently whereby you can no longer denounce catholicism?

Anyway, this is getting slightly off-topic, there are accepted differences between cults and religions, but remember, the catholic church may be benign in this country (and growing more so), but are you sure it is so clean and innocent in countries were there is little to no reporting?

Pantsface

read this on another site:

SCIENTOLOGY PRESIDENT'S SON DIES; DEATH OF ALEXANDER JENTZSCH KEPT FROM MOTHER, AN EX-MEMBER

I just received this anguished e-mail from Karen de la Carriere, formerly a member of the Church of Scientology who studied directly under L. Ron Hubbard and who was at one time married to the current (and disappeared) president of the Church of Scientology International, Heber Jentzsch...

My son is DEAD.

My 27 year old son is dead.
Mike Rinder confirmed it and the Los Angeles Coroner's Office just confirmed it.

His body is lying at the morgue.
They had him disconnect from me 2 years ago and now he is dead never to speak to me again.

Born and Bred in Big Blue

The Church is trying to cover it up.
I will send you death certificate

After the jump: I just got off the phone with Karen, who managed to give me the details before she broke down.

"He had a high fever, and the next morning he was icy cold and he was dead," she says.

Karen says she just found out a few minutes ago about her son's death, but was told by the LA County coroner's office that Alexander Jentzsch, 27, died on Tuesday at his home in Sunland, in north Los Angeles County.

"They didn't inform me. They didn't inform Heber," she said.

"I'm going down to the coroner's office in a few minutes. I have the birth certificate, I can prove I'm the mom, but the coroner said I can't have him out for a viewing," she said.

"The dead body of the president of the Church of Scientology has been sitting in a morgue for days, and they didn't tell me because I'm a declared SP," Karen said, referring to herself as an excommunicated church member, a "suppressive person."

She said that two years ago, the church's Office of Special Affairs -- it's intelligence and legal affairs wing -- had pressured Alexander to "disconnect" from her because of her excommunicated status.

"Two years ago they created a hate website on me, and they put Alexander on the phone, and with OSA in the room -- you could hear them in the background -- he said, 'Never phone me, never e-mail me. Until you have your **** together, we can have no communication. Until then we are disconnected.' He was spoon fed those words," she says.

"For two years he disconnected from me, and he's now dead."

She says that after his death Tuesday, Alexander's wife began telling Scientologist Facebook friends about it, and that had eventually got to Mike Rinder, the former church spokesman, who lives in Florida. Rinder did what he could to confirm the matter, and then broke the news to Karen. She then confirmed it this evening with the coroner.

"They'll never tell Heber," she says. Her ex-husband, Heber Jentzsch, is still nominally the president of the Church of Scientology, but he hasn't been seen in public since about 2004, one of several "disappeared" executives of the church.

Biggins

BroomBurner wrote: »

...didn't Rome change the rules recently whereby you can no longer denounce catholicism?

No.

They changed their rules so that you can no longer officially leave the catholic organisation technically.

You can still walk out of any church building or property though without any hassle then, now or in the future.

The same CANNOT be said for anyone trying to leave the cult.

...but are you sure it is so clean and innocent in countries were there is little to no reporting?

The absence of a negative or non-reporting of one - does not confirm that there is a negative!

Biggins

Pantsface wrote: »

read this on another site:

SCIENTOLOGY PRESIDENT'S SON DIES; DEATH OF ALEXANDER JENTZSCH KEPT FROM MOTHER, AN EX-MEMBER

I reported that on my news site two days ago. Bottom section.

Shryke

BroomBurner wrote: »

Shryke wrote: »

No they are not. You're implying an episode of only fools and horses is as bad as scientology. It's like you haven't read the thread at all.
Contraception was approved of in Africa by the church a few years back wasn't it?

No, I fully understand that where Rome differs is that it has history, it is built on the deaths and thievery from centuries, but one of Biggins' point was that they don't try to intimidate people in the same manner in the present day. I would suggest that trying to ruin someone's career and have them imprisoned is most definitely intimidation.

Also, didn't Rome change the rules recently whereby you can no longer denounce catholicism?

Anyway, this is getting slightly off-topic, there are accepted differences between cults and religions, but remember, the catholic church may be benign in this country (and growing more so), but are you sure it is so clean and innocent in countries were there is little to no reporting?

"Catholic groups" doesn't sound much like Rome. It's a Mickey Mouse news story and that's all it is.
You're last paragraph is just hyperbole.
Agree to disagree I suppose.

Latchy

I first came across Scientology in Amsterdam way back in the 1980's and my opinion on them back then is same as now , a cult that preys on vunerable people while screwing them for every penny they can . Katie Holmes may have other agendas besides not wanting her child to up around that influence but getting away from that weirdo and control freak Cruise is a wise move in my opinion .

The King of Moo

whiplashed wrote: »

Nobody would watch TAPS, Risky Business etc and think that this kid was gonna be a big star. If he had faded into obscurity, nobody would have blinked an eye. I am not denying his talent, just saying that talent and potential alone do nothing unless there is a driving will to succeed and Cruise has stated that Scientology is what helped him with his problems and had him striving for further success.



Of course and as I said in my opening post, they have "destroyed lives".

Users are replying to my post as if I have said Scientology works. If people read it again you will see that I am not saying that at all. What I am saying is that Cruise used these teachings and they have been successful for him and so it is understandable that he can see no wrong in it, as he has had amazing results by applying their techniques to his life.

I still don't think that's the case. I think he thinks that applying Scientology's teachings helped him, but I think he would've been a star without them. He already was by the end of the 80s.

The guy is a great actor and a natural movie star. His beliefs are incidental to his success.

Biggins

Originally Posted by whiplashed
Nobody would watch TAPS, Risky Business etc and think that this kid was gonna be a big star. If he had faded into obscurity, nobody would have blinked an eye. I am not denying his talent, just saying that talent and potential alone do nothing unless there is a driving will to succeed and Cruise has stated that Scientology is what helped him with his problems and had him striving for further success.

Of course and as I said in my opening post, they have "destroyed lives".

Users are replying to my post as if I have said Scientology works. If people read it again you will see that I am not saying that at all. What I am saying is that Cruise used these teachings and they have been successful for him and so it is understandable that he can see no wrong in it, as he has had amazing results by applying their techniques to his life.

Ok, there seems to be A LOT of details that folk aren't aware of.

The following is done by years of research, reports (The Times, Andrew Mortons book about Cruise, celeb reports, TMZ and other websites, etc) and collected and compared statements from ex-members that escaped - for those interested in what really went on, I hope the following helps.

Here goes...


Hubbard preached that man was an endlessly reincarnated spirit who could become his own god — for a price. Many took endless expensive courses in the belief that they were destined to become superhuman beings who could leave their bodies at will, move inanimate objects with their minds and be totally free from the physical universe. One day Scientologists would take over the world, Hubbard said.

Hubbard set great store by enticing celebrities into his cult, recognising that their involvement would give it credibility and encourage others to join. His recruitment advice was to go after the “old and faded” or the “up and coming”, realising that those at the top of their game had no need of his nostrums. John Travolta was recruited in 1975, when his career had taken a nosedive. “Scientology put me into the big time,” he later also claimed.

In the mid-1980s, when actress Mimi Rogers made a play for Tom Cruise, two inches shorter and six years younger than her, he was already the most talked-about actor in Hollywood, starring in Top Gun, the blockbuster movie of 1986.

Her success in landing him not only saved the cult financially but also maybe legally too - its also created the foundations for Cruise that would lead him on a path that has now left three marriages in its wake.

At the time Cruise signed up, Scientology was in disarray. The biggest FBI raid in American history had put several senior Scientologists, including Hubbard’s wife, in jail after they had been convicted of wire tapping, theft and breaking into government offices. The cult however (surprise!) does not want to talk about these things nor mention them to new people they are trying to suck in!

At that time alone Cruise was adored by his fans and many more already growing ones, he was even then financially secure and professionally appreciated, so what was missing from his life? That's good question but when the cult caught him they made it their job to find his “ruin”? That parts of his life which supposedly they said, he was unhappy about!
...Or at least thats what they told him!

He made his film debut at 19, with a small role in one of Franco Zeffirelli's worst films, Endless Love (1981). He received good notices for his performance as a belligerent cadet in Taps (1981), and appeared in Francis Ford Coppola's The Outsiders. Cruise became a leading man in a forgettable 1983 sex comedy, Losin' It. Most Americans, though, first noticed him in another '83 sex comedy, Risky Business. He has made an almost uninterrupted cavalcade of hit movies since then, including Top Gun, Rain Man, and three Mission: Impossible films.

LINK

People are drawn to Scientology because of personal difficulties, be it drugs, drink, loneliness or failed relationships. Everyone who joins is searching for salvation. “Tom found what we all found — something that worked. Simple as that,” a former high-ranking cult member once stated.

Years later Cruise claimed that Hubbard’s study techniques had helped to cure his dyslexia — although the junior-school teachers who taught him to read would deny that assertion.

Actors respond well to Scientology teachings. For a profession that is so self-involved, the idea of following a faith in which the object of devotion is the self — in which a man becomes his own god — is alluring. Scientology strokes the ego as it lightens the wallet.

For Cruise, who had childhood memories of an abusive, drunken father and a mother who worked tirelessly to keep him and his sisters fed and clothed, the notion of an instant family had a deep appeal. Scientology feeds and soothes, “love-bombing” celebrities, praising them, cosseting them and keeping them secure.

Cruise was always looking to belong. Dustin Hoffman, his co-star in Rain Man, observed: “I think he desperately needed family, [whether] it was my family or the makeshift family of the crew.”

Hubbard’s dictum “If it isn’t true for you, it isn’t true” also enabled Cruise to rewrite the script of his life. With Hubbard by his side he could become the superman of his dreams.

LINK

As we know now, his success continued. He was further by skill of trained technique professionals, reeled further into Scientology. In the summer of 1989 he was invited to its secluded lair deep in the California desert near the remote township of Hemet (REMEMBER - also the HQ of their Dirty Tricks section "The Office of Special Affairs"). This was the nerve centre of Scientology, where its leaders pursued their mission of world domination and the spreading of the gospel of Hubbard.

It was here that the nutty naval Sea Org, the most fanatical followers, are still stationed. Dressed in paramilitary uniforms, they were the 'special ones' who signed “billion-year” contracts to prove their commitment. Working punishing hours for little or no money (they were in effect the monks and nuns of the cult according to The Times as a description) and the supposed abuses by heads above them was reportedly very harsh. Female Sea Org members who became pregnant were encouraged to have an abortion, according to former members who have managed to escape. They describe the conditions as slave labour. Scientology spokesmen of course deny this - but there is too many now on separate record to conclude that it was all made up. EXAMPLE.

Cruise’s first stay was organised with the precision of a royal visit. Hundreds of Sea Org members had worked tirelessly to make the place pristine but were told to stay indoors or avert their eyes if they came near the “presence”. For this was not just the visit of any old queen, but of Tom Cruise, the uncrowned king of Hollywood. Miscavige, the diminutive cult leader, told Scientology managers: “The most important recruit ever is in the process of being secured. His arrival will change the face of Scientology for ever.”
The place was spruced up. Members were actually given lines to say, phrases to include in talking and repeat them when possible espousing love and welcomes (more Love-bombing)

Not only did the visit reinforce Cruise’s new faith, but it also introduced him to the man who would have a profound influence over his life and career. When he and David Miscavige (the current fierce tempered head) shook hands, the chemistry between the cult leader and Hollywood star was palpable.

Controlling, competitive and macho though he was - and he was - Cruise had met his match in the Scientology leader. “They are both driven, demanding, focused perfectionists,” a former Scientologist once said, who was present at that first weekend. “Let’s call it the short man syndrome.”

Miscavige was the dominant force in their friendship. His ferocious will, aggressive ambition and willingness to live on the edge were more than a match for Cruise’s own alpha male behaviour. He was the puppetmaster. The actor, whose name is a byword for control, was in turn manipulated by his doppelganger.

When Cruise’s brief marriage to Rogers ended in December 1989, Scientology managers made sure they were rapid on hand to help sort out the intricate financial details and give a safe haven to his new lover, Nicole Kidman. The next few years set a pattern. which a lot of outsiders could see! They being us, the enemies (SP's - Suppressive Persons) of the cult.

Kidman was his leading lady in the racing movie Days of Thunder. In breaks between filming they flew to the secret Scientology compound, staying in a VIP bungalow with their chef and butler. Greg Wilhere, a senior Scientologist who is now the church’s inspector-general, played such a pivotal role in smoothing the path of romance that Cruise named a character in the movie after him. It was their private joke.

As Cruise wooed Kidman with daily supplies of love notes, chocolates and roses — a familiar manoeuvre — he was constantly on the phone to Miscavige, the third wheel in his life, asking for advice on everything from scripts to his weight and film sound quality. Miscavige told him to reject the role of Edward Scissorhands, for example. The part went to Johnny Depp.

While Cruise was moving up the Bridge — Hubbard’s term for more advanced courses — Kidman was gently introduced to basic Scientology tenets. Raised a Catholic, she had one big problem: her father. Dr Antony Kidman was a clinical psychologist and by definition an enemy of Scientology.

Scientologists blame psychiatry and psychiatric drugs for all the ills on earth, including the wacky idea, also 9/11, the fake Holocaust and Stalin’s purges. Psychology, although a different branch of medicine, is no better in their view. They consider it all nuts! (Yea, ironic) For Kidman truly to be adopted into the sect, she should “disconnect” from her father — that is, never see or communicate with him again.

Disconnection, along with the constant leaching of money from the faithful, is one of the most common complaints about the cult. Those who decide to leave the faith are treated as enemies (or again, “suppressive persons”). Family members who remain inside the cult are encouraged to disconnect from them.
...And sadly this has happened maybe thousands of times.
See even the effect of this with a recent death mentioned a number of posts back. The 'Disconnection' process of the cult continues - ripping families apart.

Treading carefully, the Scientology hierarchy decided to live with the daddy issue and made Kidman feel at home. As a wedding present Miscavige ordered 20 Sea Org members to cultivate a meadow of wild flowers for her to run through, realising a childhood dream. It took weeks of back-breaking work. (Scientology officials deny this story - but again there is too many people on record now that can testify to this.)

After a while Kidman railed against the role of Scientology in their marriage. It was way too intrusive. Though she took a number of courses, she was never particularly excited by Hubbard’s teachings. In 1996, when Stanley Kubrick offered the couple starring parts in his movie Eyes Wide Shut, to be filmed in London, Kidman thought it was a chance for her husband to open his own eyes and distance himself from his Scientology pal.

When she spoke about her faith in a 1998 interview, warning bells rang at Scientology headquarters. “There’s a little bit Buddhism, a little Scientology,” she confided. “I was raised a Catholic, and a big part of me is still a Catholic girl.”

Alarm bells began to ring in the cult!

Scientology executives asked Cruise to attend a special course designed to anchor his faith and pinpoint those in his life who created difficulties. The fear was that a lukewarm Kidman could fatally compromise his commitment. They could not afford to lose their poster boy. After taking the course, many Scientologists, of their own free will, write letters to loved ones no longer in the faith, saying they never want to see them again.

Apparently there were certainly no tears shed among the faithful when the couple divorced in 2001.

By this stage Kidman hated Scientology and was fearful of Cruise’s plan to educate their children, Isabella and Connor, inside the cult. A former high-ranking Scientologist secretly advised her to keep quiet and not to speak out about Scientology if she wanted to see her children again. It seems that history is repeating itself with Katie Holmes!

His second divorce saw Cruise run at full speed back into the arms of Scientology, frenziedly extolling the virtues of his faith to movers and shakers worldwide. During international film promotion tours he met ambassadors and politicians in Germany, France and Spain, which are hostile to the cult, arguing the case for “religious freedom”.

According to his former auditor Marty Rathbun, he contacted Bill Clinton and used Clinton’s friendship with Tony Blair to try to gain tax exemption for Scientology in Britain. The attempt failed (but as a non-profit organisation it is exempt from paying Vat).

After 9/11 Cruise paid for New York firemen and other workers at the World Trade Center site to go on Scientology-designed detoxification programmes. The programmes were dismissed as quackery by toxicologists.

In 2002, Cruise unsuccessfully lobbied the German government to change its official stance against Scientology. Since the late 1990's, German law has seen Scientology as a shady money-making enterprise, not a religion. Scientologists, of course, somehow see this as an infringement of their civil rights. It is also bad for business. In 2006, Cruise threatened to do no promotional tours for Mission Impossible 3 unless the studio, Paramount Pictures, leaned on its subsidiary Comedy Central to squelch an episode of South Park that was critical of Scientology.

LINK

As a reward for these efforts Miscavige presented him with the first Scientology Freedom Medal of Valor in November 2004. During the wacky ceremony where they saluted each other, Cruise opined of his best friend: “I have never met a more competent, more intelligent, a more tolerant, a more compassionate being. And I’ve met the leader of leaders.”

Watching from the audience was Yolanda Pecoraro, an actress and Scientologist who had been auditioned by Miscavige for the role of Cruise’s new girlfriend. It was a short-lived performance (details in a previous post, I have already posted), however. Cruise then dated the Colombian actress Sofia Vergara, before being introduced to Holmes. Once again Greg Wilhere played Cupid after Holmes said in an interview that she had dreamt of marrying Cruise.

Within days Cruise was bouncing on Oprah Winfrey’s couch, declaring his love, before going on to browbeat another television host about psychiatry — “You don’t know the history of psychiatry. I do” — and publicly berating Brooke Shields for taking medication for post-partum depression.

Holmes’s parents, Martin and Kathy, were from a staunchly Catholic community in quiet Toledo, Ohio. Watching Cruise, alarm bells started to ring with them about what kind of freakshow their cherished daughter was getting into. They soon found out!

In June 2005 Holmes signed a legal document when she joined the church of Scientology — the first time her lawyer father had not looked over legal papers for her.

Then she was cocooned inside Cruise’s world, where everyone from the gardener to his mother and sisters, who lived with him, are members of the faith.

It was not long before “Free Katie” T-shirts appeared. By then it was too late. She was pregnant and seemingly in a trance. The sparky, self-deprecating actress looked like a Stepford Wife, dull-eyed and lifeless. She repeated the mantra that life was “magical” and when she couldn’t find the words to describe her ecstasy, her Scientology minder Jessica Feshbach, a Sea Org member, did it for her.

Her pregnancy conformed to Hubbard’s teachings. She gave birth to their daughter, Suri, in silence. Tom promised to eat the placenta. (YUCK!!!) At their marriage in an Italian castle in November 2006, Miscavige was the best man. There were reports, denied by Scientology, that he and his wife, Shelly (the one now missing since 2007 - but David still says she is still alive) , also accompanied the couple on their honeymoon.

A few weeks later the newlyweds joined 2,000 other Scientologists at the Shrine Auditorium in Los Angeles to listen to Miscavige speak apocalyptically about the “global obliteration” of psychiatry with smart bombs and grenades.
Yea, seriously!

As he outlined the organisation’s plans for world domination and what he called “planetary clearing”, it was clear how critical the Cruises were to his strategy for expansion. Membership estimates are hard to come by but there are about 50,000 active Scientologists in the world — although the church inflates its figure by including everyone who has ever read a Hubbard pamphlet.

Miscavige wants more. The presence of Mr and Mrs Cruise, as Miscavige made clear at the rally, gives the church an effortless worldwide reach. He heralded the “wedding of the century” as a chance to introduce the planet to the concepts of Scientology.

His utterances fuelled the suspicion that the birth of baby Suri and the wedding were as much a marketing opportunity for Scientology as a union between two people. Miscavige had succeeded brilliantly in selling his religion through the medium of his best friend. In his turn Cruise had been prepared to sacrifice his credibility and his popularity for his faith — and pay handsomely for the privilege, donating tens of millions to the church.

As Frank Zappa once said, the difference between a cult and a church is real estate, and over the years Miscavige has cleverly built up a huge portfolio of property in Hollywood, Florida, Berlin, London and elsewhere with donations from Cruise and other wealthy adherents.

Miscavige and Cruise has underestimated the doe-eyed Holmes, however. Fearful that her daughter Suri, now six and ready for the next stage of Scientology (known as “security checking”), would be brainwashed against her, she made her great escape from the Camp Cruise open prison. She could see at first hand how Kidman’s relationship with her adoptive children Connor and Isabella is distant at best — both children are educated at Scientology schools. Holmes was determined that it wasn’t going to happen to her.

With the help of her father she secretly rented an apartment in New York and hired her former public relations representative, new non- Scientology bodyguards and a hotshot divorce lawyer. The covert planning demonstrated that she and her family — like many others before them — now understand a sobering reality. It is a risky business to take on Cruise and his church.

Holmes's decision to flee from Cruise and all his works has given Scientology a problem. If the church’s poster girl is going to go to such elaborate lengths to escape her husband and the tentacles of the church — there are also reports that Miscavige’s father and Hubbard’s granddaughter have “blown” from the organisation — what does that say about the nature of the faith?

LINK

The current unfolding drama focuses attention on the sinister side of the cult, particularly the way families are routinely torn asunder because of church lore. Former Scientologists, most prominently Jenna Miscavige Hill, niece of the leader, have publicly and courageously criticised the church, singling out Cruise for “supporting a religion that tears apart families, both in the media and monetarily”. The actor Jason Beghe has also added, stating that the cult is a “rip-off” after he spent a million on courses. He still cannot move an ashtray with his mind!

As a long-time Scientology watcher observed: “This whole episode is a big negative. Now the international mass media have to explain Scientology and why it is so creepy and why Katie is running scared. That is anathema to them. They will be hating this worse than the FBI raid.”

From a much long PR poster boy to now bad smell, Tom Cruise’s chequered love life has left a sour odour around the star and his cult. Under normal circumstances Miscavige would be distancing himself and the church from Cruise, the actor having become more of a liability than an asset - but as he is its biggest donor (Nancy Cartwright of Simpsons fame is not far behind) and the man who has become the public face of a secretive cult, that is truly a mission implausible. Scientology exists in the form it does today thanks only to Cruise!

David Miscavige and Tom Cruise apparently stand or or will possibly fall together!

It leaves Miscavige little choice but to batten down the hatches, take the flak (the dirty tricks have already started on the internet with them trying to close down postings) and send out a search party for the fourth Mrs Cruise eventually. Only docile Stepford wife type need apply.
Anyone want to apply for wife number four for Tom Cruise?

Again, the above is taken in parts from many reports including The New York Times, The English Times, and many other good detailed, quality sources.
It not just my research but many others who have separately, independently got same information from their own sources.
I recommend Andrew Mortons books for a good intro also to the cults effect on Tom Cruise.
Further additional info on the cult and Tom Cruise can be found at the following for example:

* www.xenu.net
* www.lermanet.com
* http://www.scientology-lies.com/
* http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets
* http://www.truthaboutscientology.com
* http://www.narconon-exposed.org
* http://www.scientologywatch.org
* http://Stop-Narconon.org

There are many others.

A good list pertaining to Cruise can be found here: http://www.scientology-lies.com/people/celebrities/tom-cruise.html

When the cult got Tom Cruise - they struck gold - and they have been reeling the many millions since!
Many much of it tax free!

fro9etb8j5qsl2

Daily Mail (unsurprisingly) jumping on the scandal wagon today.... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2170232/Scientology-Pinching-purification-finding-The-Bridge-Total-Freedom-My-sinister-induction-Scientology-HQ--just-days-ago-July-4.html

Biggins

Millie Uninterested Oncology wrote: »

Daily Mail (unsurprisingly) jumping on the scandal wagon today.... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2170232/Scientology-Pinching-purification-finding-The-Bridge-Total-Freedom-My-sinister-induction-Scientology-HQ--just-days-ago-July-4.html

Judging by the pictures in that report, the cult has been watching and copying too much of Star Trek and the hallways of the later versions of the Enterprise.

There's nothing original about these people - they just take stuff, pass it off as theirs and do it more professionally - with millions in currency behind them!

Shryke

A write up from the Guardian.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/theobserver/2012/jul/08/profile-david-miscavige-scientology

Dartz

Biggins wrote: »

Judging by the pictures in that report, the cult has been watching and copying too much of Star Trek and the hallways of the later versions of the Enterprise.

There's nothing original about these people - they just take stuff, pass it off as theirs and do it more professionally - with millions in currency behind them!

Most of those images I've seen elsewhere. I think they're computer renderings rather than actual photographs. Unfortunately, I can't remember off the top of my head where I actually read that.

Biggins

Just as a follow up to the recent events regarding the cult and Mr Cruise, The Times (England) reports the following (LINK):

The Church appears to be making efforts to rescue its own reputation, in part by launching a television channel. It will be based in Los Angeles, in a five-acre studio complex that the Church bought last year for 34.26€ million. A spokesman said that the facility would operate as “a central media hub for our growing world network of churches”.

Elayne Rapping, a pop-culture expert and Professor of American Studies at the University of Buffalo, said that she was not surprised by the Church’s move. “Having their own TV is a good idea since they can spin things their way,” she said.“They are after good PR which they can control to offset the bad publicity surrounding them in other media.”

They are coming live to a screen near you possibly!

Tom meanwhile...

Tom Cruise is threatening to sue America’s most notorious supermarket tabloid, claiming that its depiction of him as “a monster” who mistreated his wife and six-year-old daughter is a heap of “false and vicious lies” that will cost him hundreds of millions of dollars in lost earnings.

The legal threat was made in a letter sent by Bert Fields, Cruise’s long-time lawyer, to American Media, the parent company of the National Enquirer. The cover of the latest issue depicts a yelling Cruise and haggard-looking Katie Holmes with the headline: “Inside Tom’s house of horrors.”

LoYL

Higgs and Boson?

themadhair

To answer the question - anybody could get mixed up in it. Find the right 'ruin' (the Scientology term for a person's psychological button), tailor your sales pitch to target them and you've got a new customer.

This videos is from the Dublin Offlines conference that was held in Dublin on June 30th:

More videos from the conference available here:
http://exscientologistsireland.org/conference-videos/

LH Pathe

Beck, rather famously got mixed up in scientology this was what put chemtrails on a fair few peoples radar:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJdEieT8QX8

Helix

lazygal wrote: »

Like, how thick would you have to be? Who doesn't know its a cult designed to extract as much money as possible from you?

Also, anyone availed of a free personality test?

scientology is no more or less ridiculous than any other religion. it's just not popular enough to shed the cult status

Shryke

LH Pathe wrote: »

Beck, rather famously got mixed up in scientology this was what put chemtrails on a fair few peoples radar:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJdEieT8QX8

He was born into it wasn't he? Maybe there is some story I missed?

conor93a

That fella who wrote the screenplay for Million Dollar Baby was a member for over 30 years. I mean he's hardly thick and I doubt Beck is either.

The fact that seemingly intelligent people join is actually more worrying, because it shows that the cult are capable of convincing anyone to join.

Wibbs

Intelligence manifests itself in a number of ways though. You could have someone who is a major mind in their field, but is lacking social, philosophical or even spiritual intelligence and they would be much more vulnerable than some otherwise pretty average "bloke in the pub" that might have more nous in those areas.

CL7

Wibbs wrote: »

Intelligence manifests itself in a number of ways though. You could have someone who is a major mind in their field, but is lacking social, philosophical or even spiritual intelligence and they would be much more vulnerable than some otherwise pretty average "bloke in the pub" that might have more nous in those areas.

I agree with your post but what is spiritual intelligence?

Edit: Just googled it. Never heard of it before now.