Bloody Sunday Murder investigation to begin!

Fenian Army

My heart screams that those responsible should be prosecuted... (I can think of better medicine)

But listening to my head, as I try to do, I would rather see a general amnesty and a peace and reconciliation forum like SA.

steddyeddy

bwatson wrote: »

Oh, there is no doubt they will. They will push the trial and ensure that those who they think are guilty go to prison for a substantial amount of time. The current British government despise the British military, and in particular the British Army and are doing everything they can to destroy it from the inside. David Cameron will push this more than any other PM would have done to ensure that the Army recieve further bad press so as to convince the civillian population that the dismantling that he is overseeing is a good thing for all.

They are going to do the right thing but for the wrong reasons.

Well they shouldnt punish the army for the actions of a few. Or punish the few to get at the army.

Fenian Army

2 years is the most they can serve

wmpdd3

Why?

Fenian Army

wmpdd3 wrote: »

Why?

part of the GFA... we have IRA volunteers in jail now (Gerry McGeough) convicted of attempted murder etc for something in the 80s.. sentenced for a long time, will only serve 2 years.

Chuck Stone

bwatson wrote: »

Oh, there is no doubt they will. They will push the trial and ensure that those who they think are guilty go to prison for a substantial amount of time. The current British government despise the British military, and in particular the British Army and are doing everything they can to destroy it from the inside. David Cameron will push this more than any other PM would have done to ensure that the Army recieve further bad press so as to convince the civillian population that the dismantling that he is overseeing is a good thing for all.

Sounds very conspiratorial...

Are you sure you don't mean that Britain is streamlining its military in face of new realities? New realities like how the British military is geared up for fighting the cold war and the fact that the UK is facing more austere times ahead?

GAAman

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Really? We live on the same island and you'd be hard pushed to find anyone down here that doesn't have some friends or relatives in Northern Ireland. That enough of a reason to care?

An obvious troll, do not even give him the satisfaction!

On topic, I would not be surprised if "soldier" 1 gets any sort of sentence let alone the rest of them!

I am very surprised at the people who do not care, I am from Dublin but have lived in Derry for over 7 years now, anyone who has been here for even a short time knows this is a huge open wound in the mind of many if not all Derry people. These are Irish people too, no different to people in Cork, Kerry etc have some compassion at the very least like! These were family members, brothers, sons and even a parish priest! ALL of whom were found to be innocent after too long being accused of being terrorists.

How would you feel if it was a member of YOUR family? Be different then wouldn't it!

mattjack

mattjack wrote: »

That's possibly what will happen, though I seem to remember years ago Canada disbanding a battalion or company ? (I'm not sure on the terminology) of soldiers who had brought Canada into disrepute in Somolia , I think.

If an example were made of the Para's on conviction of their soldiers, similar to what the Canadians had done, it might possibly look a lot better ,bearing in mind its unlikely that any soldier will serve a sentence.

bwatson wrote: »

There is absolutely no chance in hell that the British government would decide to disband the Parachute Regiment!

I never mentioned anything about the Parachute Regiment being disbanded .... I'm talking about the unit involved in the event.1st Para ?

Sunnyisland

Fenian Army wrote: »

My heart screams that those responsible should be prosecuted... (I can think of better medicine)

But listening to my head, as I try to do, I would rather see a general amnesty and a peace and reconciliation forum like SA.

This is the way to go for all sides,imo.

SocSocPol

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Eh? Thousands of men and women did time during the troubles, some for over 20 years many were innocent kids tortured into signing confessions.

A total of 4 brits went to prison serving 2-6 years. The war is over but this was a clear case of planned murder of civilians.

many were innocent kids tortured into signing confessions. (Usually by SFIRA they were then shot and either their bodies dumped on the border or worse just disappeared!)

sellerbarry

A quick message from 99.9% of the population. Move on. Don't want my kids growing up listening to more of this crap.

mattjack

sellerbarry wrote: »

A quick message from 99.9% of the population. Move on. Don't want my kids growing up listening to more of this crap.

From or to ?

Feisar

John Doe1 wrote: »

As an protestant from donegal, I hope those poor families get some justice, its an absolute disgrace what happened. So many lives could have been saved over the decades if those idiots hadnt opened fire.

Idiots? They were Paratroopers, it's their job to open fire. You can't blame them for doing what they were trained to do.

The idiocy comes from putting them there. Aggressive front line soldiers should never be used to police civilians.

JustAddWater

RHarrow wrote: »

Don't really care what happened 30 years ago in another country to be honest.

Eh? Then why post!

Go back under your bridge

Rabidlamb

Is this going to become like Hillsborough or the Stardust where the families keep campaigning for inquiry after inquiry where we all know they just want a big wedge of compensation ?.

Crooked Jack

sellerbarry wrote: »

A quick message from 99.9% of the population. Move on. Don't want my kids growing up listening to more of this crap.

WOW! Someone who can speak for 99.9% of the population.
Now we can sort out all sorts of issues without any need for a referendum or election.
Abortion, the euro, whatever, all we have to do is ask this guy.

sellerbarry

Crooked Jack wrote: »

WOW! Someone who can speak for 99.9% of the population.
Now we can sort out all sorts of issues without any need for a referendum or election.
Abortion, the euro, whatever, all we have to do is ask this guy.

It's history. Move on. Get on with your life.:rolleyes:

Nothingbetter2d

lol typical british solution to ira related inquiries.... wait 30 to 40 years until most of the eye witnesses have died off then waste money having the inquiry that leads to no real answers.


They must be learning from the irish with regards to pointless inquiries.... we are champion at wasting hundreds of millions on inquiries that lead to no prosecutions

R P McMurphy

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Is this going to become like Hillsborough or the Stardust where the families keep campaigning for inquiry after inquiry where we all know they just want a big wedge of compensation ?.

Ah yeah because if you had a family member killed due to gross negligence or downright murder you would just shrug your shoulders and move on without wanting someone held accountable. Pity your family

Rabidlamb

R P McMurphy wrote: »

Ah yeah because if you had a family member killed due to gross negligence or downright murder you would just shrug your shoulders and move on without wanting someone held accountable. Pity your family

Governments have deep pockets which is why people pursue them ecouraged of course by the legal profession.
The Saville Bloody Sunday Inquiry cost £400 million http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_Inquiry#Controversy_over_cost_and_duration
I consider this a bigger crime than some trigger happy paratroopers.
If they'd given each of the 13 families £10 million each & said sorry this could have been put to bed a decade ago.

CucaFace

Sellerbarry somehow i doubt you would be on here telling everyone to move on and forget about this if it was someone in your family that was murdered like this.

Maybe for a second just try and put yourself in their shoe's before posting such rubbish.

The families of these innocent people who were shot as they took part in a peaceful march DESERVE some justice after all these years.

A trail like this is the very least they desreve.

How can they move on knowing that the people who shot their loved one's have never been brought to account for their crimes that day??

CucaFace

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Governments have deep pockets which is why people pursue them ecouraged of course by the legal profession.
The Saville Bloody Sunday Inquiry cost £400 million http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_Inquiry#Controversy_over_cost_and_duration
I consider this a bigger crime than some trigger happy paratroopers.
If they'd given each of the 13 families £10 million each & said sorry this could have been put to bed a decade ago.

What a a disgraceful comment.

No amount of money equates to the loss of these people's lifes.

Show Time

sellerbarry wrote: »

A quick message from 99.9% of the population. Move on. Don't want my kids growing up listening to more of this crap.

Who gave you permission to speak for me??

Klim

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Is this going to become like Hillsborough or the Stardust where the families keep campaigning for inquiry after inquiry where we all know they just want a big wedge of compensation ?.

Hillsborough's victims families were only campaigning for compensation?

What a completely ignorant and downright spiteful thing to say.

You haven't a clue. I suggest you read up on it.

R P McMurphy

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Governments have deep pockets which is why people pursue them ecouraged of course by the legal profession.
The Saville Bloody Sunday Inquiry cost £400 million http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_Inquiry#Controversy_over_cost_and_duration
I consider this a bigger crime than some trigger happy paratroopers.
If they'd given each of the 13 families £10 million each & said sorry this could have been put to bed a decade ago.

I think you are nothing short of a disgrace with an attitude like that. Maybe you were content with the widgery report, I can only suggest that your comments on this thread are a result of gross ignorance

Rabidlamb

Klim wrote: »

Hillsborough's victims families were only campaigning for compensation?

What a completely ignorant and downright spiteful thing to say.

You haven't a clue. I suggest you read up on it.

Had it been a pilot who caused the death of 96 people the families would have moved on years ago.
As it's a police force who's allegedly at fault here then there's more than an apology & admittance of guilt up for grabs.
I'm cynical by nature but I see greed at play here also.

Rabidlamb

R P McMurphy wrote: »

I think you are nothing short of a disgrace with an attitude like that. Maybe you were content with the widgery report, I can only suggest that your comments on this thread are a result of gross ignorance

The initial report was a washout, agreed, but do you not concede that £400 million would have been put to much better use building cross community projects.

Biggins

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

lol typical british solution to ira related inquiries.... wait 30 to 40 years until most of the eye witnesses have died off then waste money having the inquiry that leads to no real answers.

They must be learning from the irish with regards to pointless inquiries.... we are champion at wasting hundreds of millions on inquiries that lead to no prosecutions

...Not forgetting also that a statue of limitation for prosecutions might apply also!

Fenian Army

Investigation will supposedly take 4 years... what a joke

K-9

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Is this going to become like Hillsborough or the Stardust where the families keep campaigning for inquiry after inquiry where we all know they just want a big wedge of compensation ?.

40 years campaigning for compensation you say? Doubtful I think.

Sunnyisland

Rabid Lamb wrote: »

Governments have deep pockets which is why people pursue them courage of course by the legal profession.
If they'd given each of the 13 families £10 million each & said sorry this could have been put to bed a decade ago.

There where 26 unarmed people shot by the army,Thirteen males,seven who were teenagers died that day, Another one died later from his injuries,That's fourteen,Two others were also run down by an army vehicle plus five of the people wounded where shot in the back.


What really made Bloody Sunday so obscene was the fact that people afterwards, at the highest level of British justice, justified it and I think that is the real obscenity.
Bishop Edward Daly,

Varied

Lets see...

The "who cares what happens up north" comments, check.
Sinn fein bashing, check.
Accusing the people pursuing an investigation of trying to cream money from the justice system, check.

The people that think like this are the lowest form of pondlife you can get.

It is about time these "men" were brought to justice, I couldn't care less how many years they get, all I want is their names published and their crimes well known.

When all this is out in the open, maybe then we will see what an Irish person in the north had to go through for many years and people in the 26 counties can be a little more educated.

I won't get my hopes up though.

mattjack

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Had it been a pilot who caused the death of 96 people the families would have moved on years ago.
As it's a police force who's allegedly at fault here then there's more than an apology & admittance of guilt up for grabs.
I'm cynical by nature but I see greed at play here also.

At least show the dead some respect by getting the facts right, it was paratroopers who shot the marchers, not policemen.

SocSocPol

Varied wrote: »

Lets see...

The "who cares what happens up north" comments, check.
Sinn fein bashing, check.
Accusing the people pursuing an investigation of trying to cream money from the justice system, check.

The people that think like this are the lowest form of pondlife you can get.

It is about time these "men" were brought to justice, I couldn't care less how many years they get, all I want is their names published and their crimes well known.

When all this is out in the open, maybe then we will see what an Irish person in the north had to go through for many years and people in the 26 counties can be a little more educated.

I won't get my hopes up though.

When the Birmingham Bombers are prosecuted, when Adams is convicted for Jean McConvilles murder, when the killers of Tom Oliver are brought to justice.......
Where does it end , it appears that all that the so called republicians want is one sided justice that will perpetuate the hatred and suffering.
It is time to let the dead bury the dead.

Border-Rat

One of the killers is alive and well, enjoying life in Belgium. Looks like he'll be asked to nip home and (Maybe) face charges.

CucaFace

SocSocPol wrote: »

When the Birmingham Bombers are prosecuted, when Adams is convicted for Jean McConvilles murder, when the killers of Tom Oliver are brought to justice.......
Where does it end , it appears that all that the so called republicians want is one sided justice that will perpetuate the hatred and suffering.
It is time to let the dead bury the dead.

Well all these horrible events were an after consequence to what happened in Derry so let’s bring the paratroopers to justice first.

Surely you can why these guys should be brought before a court and some justice be dished out?

Varied

SocSocPol wrote: »

When the Birmingham Bombers are prosecuted, when Adams is convicted for Jean McConvilles murder, when the killers of Tom Oliver are brought to justice.......
Where does it end , it appears that all that the so called republicians want is one sided justice that will perpetuate the hatred and suffering.
It is time to let the dead bury the dead.

Internment without trial
Killing catholics/republicans/nationalists indiscriminately
Torture of young men into signing confessions
Colluding with Loyalist deathsquads

Need I go on?


The few atrocities of a few wayward PIRA men I have always condemned and I would welcome an independent commission to investigate and bring these perpetrators to justice.

bwatson

CucaFace wrote: »

Well all these horrible events were an after consequence to what happened in Derry so let’s bring the paratroopers to justice first.

Surely you can why these guys should be brought before a court and some justice be dished out?

You don't seem to be interested in justice being served as a whole at all.

When it comes to the law, the kind of historical cause and effect analysis you are trying to use doesn't hold. No one action caused another person to murder.

The law doesn't work on a "first come first serve" basis either. The fact that the incident involving the Paras may have taken placed before the others is utterly inconsequential. I get the impression you want to see those members of 1 Para banged up far more than you want to see justice for any British victims in events which took place after!

Rascasse

Varied wrote: »

Internment without trial
Killing catholics/republicans/nationalists indiscriminately

The few atrocities of a few wayward PIRA men I have always condemned and I would welcome an independent commission to investigate and bring these perpetrators to justice.

Between 1969-2001
Civilians killed by British security forces 187
Civilians killed by republican paramilitaries 727

Slightly more than a wayward few I'd wager.

SocSocPol

Border-Rat wrote: »

One of the killers is alive and well, enjoying life in Belgium. Looks like he'll be asked to nip home and (Maybe) face charges.

A lot of SFIRA murderers might follow him maybe the babykillers of Warrington?

bwatson

Varied wrote: »

Internment without trial
Killing catholics/republicans/nationalists indiscriminately
Torture of young men into signing confessions
Colluding with Loyalist deathsquads

Need I go on?


The few atrocities of a few wayward PIRA men I have always condemned and I would welcome an independent commission to investigate and bring these perpetrators to justice.

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/violence/cts/tables.htm

This table tells quite a different story. To suggest that there were a "few atrocities" caused by "a few wayward PIRA men" is so incorrect that its more a hilarious than outrageous statement.

Over 700 civilians died at the hands of these supposed "few wayward PIRA men". For every civilian killed by the British Forces, 4 were killed by Republican groups.

Varied

Rascasse wrote: »

Between 1969-2001
Civilians killed by British security forces 187
Civilians killed by republican paramilitaries 727

Slightly more than a wayward few I'd wager.

Here we go with statistics being thrown about in some sick justification for your ridiculous statements.

SocSocPol wrote: »

A lot of SFIRA murderers might follow him maybe the babykillers of Warrington?

700 hundred Catholics burned out of their homes and 21 killed in just three days, are you going to bring up those little statistics? Now this was before the PIRA came along.

I and most other republicans condemn the warrington atrocity and want to see justice, yet you can't say one thing about the circumstances that Irish/catholics/republicans/nationlists had been in and why these things came about.

Debating with you and people like you seems pointless as you really know f**k all.

Varied

bwatson wrote: »

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/violence/cts/tables.htm

This table tells quite a different story. To suggest that there were a "few atrocities" caused by "a few wayward PIRA men" is so incorrect that its more a hilarious than outrageous statement.

Over 700 civilians died at the hands of these supposed "few wayward PIRA men". For every civilian killed by the British Forces, 4 were killed by Republican groups.

I will never justify the killing of innocent people. The statement was referring to warrington.

SocSocPol

Varied wrote: »

Here we go with statistics being thrown about in some sick justification for your ridiculous statements.





700 hundred Catholics burned out of their homes and 21 killed in just three days, are you going to bring up those little statistics? Now this was before the PIRA came along.

I and most other republicans condemn the warrington atrocity and want to see justice, yet you can't say one thing about the circumstances that Irish/catholics/republicans/nationlists had been in and why these things came about.

Debating with you and people like you seems pointless as you really know f**k all.

I know plenty including that the SFIRA leadership has NEVER condemed Warrington , they save their condemnation for the Brits.
Typical SFIRA apologist answer though with "you know F**k all", you apply that one to anyone who opposses your continuing campaign of organized crime

SocSocPol

Varied wrote: »

I will never justify the killing of innocent people. The statement was referring to warrington.

Warrington was not a wayward few, accoeding to the IRA it was carried out by an "active service unit".

votecounts

RHarrow wrote: »

Don't really care what happened 30 years ago in another country to be honest.

disgraceful and ignorant post to say the least

Nodin

SocSocPol wrote: »

........... anyone who opposses your continuing campaign of organized crime

You've some evidence of this "continuing campaign of organized crime"?

Rascasse

Varied wrote: »

Here we go with statistics being thrown about in some sick justification for your ridiculous statements.

You made the ridiculous statements, I used the statistics to rebut them.

For 30 years atrocities were carried across NI, GB and Ireland by all sides. Yet I am always struck how unwilling Republicans are to stand up and condemn their own.

If they do its always a rogue element or a mistake or Britains fault anyway.

SocSocPol

Good to see that Peter Robinson has called for a police investigation into the role of IRA terrorist leader Martin Mc Guinness with regard to Bloody Sunday.
Hopefully McGuinness a self proclaimed IRA terrorist will be prosecuted.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0706/probe-mcguinness-role-in-bloody-sunday-robinson.html

Nodin

SocSocPol wrote: »

Good to see that Peter Robinson has called for a police investigation into the role of IRA terrorist leader Martin Mc Guinness with regard to Bloody Sunday.
Hopefully McGuinness a self proclaimed IRA terrorist will be prosecuted.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0706/probe-mcguinness-role-in-bloody-sunday-robinson.html

You made an allegation with regards to "continuing campaign of organized crime" by Sinn Fein earlier. Do you have any evidence of this?