Bloody Sunday Murder investigation to begin!

karma_

SocSocPol wrote: »

When the Birmingham Bombers are prosecuted, when Adams is convicted for Jean McConvilles murder, when the killers of Tom Oliver are brought to justice.......
Where does it end , it appears that all that the so called republicians want is one sided justice that will perpetuate the hatred and suffering.
It is time to let the dead bury the dead.

Firstly, this has nothing to do with Republicans. It's to do with 14 civilians who were murdered by trigger happy Paras, who did nothing more than to march for civil rights. Not only were they tragically murdered, the State conspired to have them portrayed as terrorists, talk about driving a knife in. Now, at least the Saville inquiry has finally uncovered what everyone already knew anyway, these people were in fact innocent, it's a disgrace in itself that it took until 2010 to get to that point.

Don't these 14 deserve some kind of justice SoCSocPol? or would you rather have murderers live out their lives without having justice served.

You're a unionist, I can respect that, were you to campaign and finally get another inquiry or investigation into Teebane or the Enniskillen bombing I'd say fair play to you for everyone up here deserves a bit of justice rather than to be conveniently forgot about. Maybe leave the tinted glasses off for a minute and be happy for the families of these victims for a minute or two.

SocSocPol

karma_ wrote: »

Firstly, this has nothing to do with Republicans. It's to do with 14 civilians who were murdered by trigger happy Paras, who did nothing more than to march for civil rights. Not only were they tragically murdered, the State conspired to have them portrayed as terrorists, talk about driving a knife in. Now, at least the Saville inquiry has finally uncovered what everyone already knew anyway, these people were in fact innocent, it's a disgrace in itself that it took until 2010 to get to that point.

Don't these 14 deserve some kind of justice SoCSocPol? or would you rather have murderers live out their lives without having justice served.

You're a unionist, I can respect that, were you to campaign and finally get another inquiry or investigation into Teebane or the Enniskillen bombing I'd say fair play to you for everyone up here deserves a bit of justice rather than to be conveniently forgot about. Maybe leave the tinted glasses off for a minute and be happy for the families of these victims for a minute or two.

Sorry to dissappoint you but I am not a Unionist(that blows your sectarian attack on me out of the water). I am Irish born in Dublin, politically I am Republican (with a capital R as oppossed to Irish republican, which can best be described as fascist sectarian).

SocSocPol

Nodin wrote: »

You made an allegation with regards to "continuing campaign of organized crime" by Sinn Fein earlier. Do you have any evidence of this?

I suggest you google Paul Quinn, or the Northern Bank robbery (both so-called ceasefire ).

Chuck Stone

SocSocPol wrote: »

innocent kids ... SFIRA ...disappeared ... Jean McConville ... SFIRA ... babykillers of Warrington ... Typical SFIRA apologist

Oh look - it's you again, regurgitating sound bites and engaging in perverse whataboutery.

You're like a caricature of a 1970's Paisley.

karma_

SocSocPol wrote: »

Sorry to dissappoint you but I am not a Unionist(that blows your sectarian attack on me out of the water). I am Irish born in Dublin, politically I am Republican (with a capital R as oppossed to Irish republican, which can best be described as fascist sectarian).

A sectarian attack? You have to be feckin joking ... right?

If I mistook you for a unionist, then I apologise, however I see Gregory Campbell making the same argument, and he certainly is not a Republican regardless of case! So hopefully this explains the error.

In saying that, the entire argument I see you make here can be simplified thus - "Let's allow admitted murderers to not be prosecuted."

That's no argument at all, it's obscene.

I have no problems with any man or woman who has not so far been convicted of their crimes in Northern Ireland being convicted. IF that means they have to be prosecuted under the terms of the GFA then so be it, better a little justice than none at all. Likewise for these paras, who are now acknowledged to be responsible for these murders to be convicted.

Hell, even if they only ever ended up being convicted and spending one day in jail, I'd be delighted for the Bloody Sunday families.

Now how about you take that sectarian shít stick you throw all to easily at posters and shove it.

Nodin

SocSocPol wrote: »

I suggest you google Paul Quinn, or the Northern Bank robbery (both so-called ceasefire ).

The provisonal movement had nothing to do with the killing of Paul Quinn.

The ulster bank robbery was in 2004.

According to the international monitoring body the Provisional IRA have disbanded.

You stated there was a "continuing campaign of organized crime" (my bold and underline). Where is your evidence for this?

K-9

SocSocPol wrote: »

Good to see that Peter Robinson has called for a police investigation into the role of IRA terrorist leader Martin Mc Guinness with regard to Bloody Sunday.
Hopefully McGuinness a self proclaimed IRA terrorist will be prosecuted.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0706/probe-mcguinness-role-in-bloody-sunday-robinson.html

The more things change.............................. Zero sum Northern Ireland politics at its best.

SocSocPol

karma_ wrote: »

A sectarian attack? You have to be feckin joking ... right?

If I mistook you for a unionist, then I apologise, however I see Gregory Campbell making the same argument, and he certainly is not a Republican regardless of case! So hopefully this explains the error.

In saying that, the entire argument I see you make here can be simplified thus - "Let's allow admitted murderers to not be prosecuted."

That's no argument at all, it's obscene.

I have no problems with any man or woman who has not so far been convicted of their crimes in Northern Ireland being convicted. IF that means they have to be prosecuted under the terms of the GFA then so be it, better a little justice than none at all. Likewise for these paras, who are now acknowledged to be responsible for these murders to be convicted.

Hell, even if they only ever ended up being convicted and spending one day in jail, I'd be delighted for the Bloody Sunday families.

Now how about you take that sectarian shít stick you throw all to easily at posters and shove it.

If you cant use persuasion, logic or facts, do what SFIRA, resort to personalized abuse.

karma_

SocSocPol wrote: »

[/B]
If you cant use persuasion, logic or facts, do what SFIRA, resort to personalized abuse.

Listen up, before you start this bullshít. YOU were the one who accused me of making a sectarian attack upon you. Now your crying about abuse? Give me a f*****g break.

SocSocPol

karma_ wrote: »

Listen up, before you start this bullshít. YOU were the one who accused me of making a sectarian attack upon you. Now your crying about abuse? Give me a f*****g break.

Who accused whom of being a Unionist?

karma_

SocSocPol wrote: »

Who accused whom of being a Unionist?

And I apologised for that mistake.

Nodin

SocSocPol wrote: »

Who accused whom of being a Unionist?

Would you be good enough to get back to me on this please?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79596977&postcount=107

Border-Rat

SocSocPol wrote: »

A lot of SFIRA murderers might follow him maybe the babykillers of Warrington?

If you're going to bat for your heroes using child-murder as an excuse, you really ought to learn how to pick your moments better. Lets take a look at your own heroes record re: Child Killing;

- Patrick Barnard (13), Dungannon, Co. Tyrone, killed along with James McCaughey (13) and three adult Catholics in British paramilitary car bomb attack.
- Daniel Barrett (15), Ardoyne, Belfast; shot in his home from a nearby BA observation post.
- Martha Campbell (13), Ballymurphy Road, Belfast, shot by British paramilitary terrorists.
- Michael Patrick Connors (14), Central Belfast, shot along with John Mahon by British soldiers at a checkpoint.
- Patrick Crawford (15), West Belfast, while walking with two others, shot by British soldiers.
- James Cromie (13), Belfast, killed along with fourteen other Catholics by British paramilitary car bomb outside McGurk’s Pub.
- Alphonsus Cunningham (13), West Belfast, during disturbances, run over by a vehicle.
- Manus Deery (15), Derry, shot by army sniper as he brought supper home from nearby shop.
- Bridget Anne Dempsey (10 months), North Belfast, burned to death along with her mother and father when British paramilitary terrorists firebombed their house at night.
- James Doherty (4), West Belfast, shot outside his home.
- Michael Francis Donnelly (14), Silverbridge, Armagh, killed along with two adult Catholics in bomb-and-bullet attack on Donnelly’s Bar; by RUC, UDR and British paramilitary terrorists.
- Brian Duffy (15), North Belfast, in a taxi stand, died along with driver, shot by British paramilitary terrorists.
- Seamus Duffy (15), North Belfast, shot at close range by RUC rubber bullet.
- Margaret Gargan (13), West Belfast, shot by British soldiers who also shot dead Fr. Noel Fitzpatrick as he gave her Last Rites. The bullet that killed Fr. Fitzpatrick passed through him and also killed Patrick Butler. While trying to drag Fr. Fitzpatrick to safety David McCafferty was also shot dead by the soldiers. (The first priest killed was Fr. Hugh Mullan, West Belfast, shot, twice, by British soldiers as he gave Last Rites to another of their victims. An attempt to drag him to safety ended when Frank Quinn was shot dead by the soldiers.)
- Rosaleen Gavin (8), North Belfast, shot by British soldiers from an observation post.
- Stephen Geddes (10), West Belfast, shot in head at close range by British soldier with rubber bullet.
- Rory Gormley (14), West Belfast, while being driven to school by his father, shot by British paramilitary terrorists.
- Desmond Healey (14), West Belfast, shot in back by Parachute Reg’t soldier.
- Kevin Heatley (12), Newry, Co. Down, shot by British soldier. Kevin’s father later committed suicide.
- Clare Hughes (4), North Belfast, in blast of British paramilitary car-bomb outside Benny’s Pub.
- Carol Ann Kelly (11), West Belfast, shot in head by British soldier’s rubber bullet as she brought milk home from a nearby shop.
- James Kennedy (15), South Belfast, killed, along with four Catholic adults, in British paramilitary gun attack on betting shop.
- Julia Livingstone (14), shot in head at close range by a rubber bullet gun mounted on a British armored vehicle.
- Eileen Mackin (14), West Belfast, shot by British paramilitary terrorists.
- Anne Magee (15), North Belfast, while at work in a grocery, shot in face by British paramilitary terrorists.
- Andrew Maguire (6 weeks),
- Joanne Maguire (8) and
- John Maguire (2), West Belfast, all crushed by a car when its driver was shot dead by a British soldier. Their mother later committed suicide.
- Hugh Maguire (9), West Belfast, hit by British armored vehicle.
- Gerald McAuley (15), West Belfast, shot dead along with an adult Catholic, by British paramilitary terrorists who were also burning down the homes of Catholics on Bombay Street and adjacent streets.
- Siobhan McCabe (4), West Belfast, shot near her house by British soldiers.
- David McCafferty (14), West Belfast, shot by British soldiers while trying to drag to safety Fr. Fitzpatrick who the soldiers had just shot.
- James Francis McCaughey (13), Dungannon, Co. Tyrone, killed in street along with his friend, Patrick Barnard (13).
- David McClenaghan (15), North Belfast, at night in his home, shot by British paramilitary terrorists who also raped his widowed mother.
- Stephen McConomy (11), Derry, shot in head by plastic bullet fired from a nearby armored vehicle.
- Anthony McDowell (12), North Belfast, while a passenger in a car, attributed to Parachute Reg’t soldiers who deny it.
- Annette McGavigan (14), Derry, shot by British soldiers.
- Joseph McGuinness (13), North Belfast, walking with friends to a fish and chip shop, shot by British paramilitary terrorists.
- Maria McGurk (14), North Belfast, daughter of owner of McGurk’s Bar, killed along with fourteen others by British paramilitary terrorist bomb attack on the bar.
- Geraldine McKeown (14), North Belfast, shot through her window by British paramilitary terrorists.
- Kevin McMenamin (10), West Belfast, in blast of a bomb placed by British paramilitary terrorists.
- Carol McMenamy (15), North Belfast, shot in head and neck by British paramilitary terrorists in front of her cousin’s house. Her brother and cousin were murdered earlier.
- Darren Murray (12), Portadown, Co. Armagh, chased by British paramilitary terrorists into traffic where a car killed him.
- Anne Marie O’Brien (5 months), along with their mother, Anna, and father, John, among the thirty-three killed in the car-bomb blasts of 17May74 in Dublin and Monaghan streets placed by BA/RUC/”The Jackal.”
- Michelle O’Connor (3), South Belfast, killed by a bomb attached to her father’s car by British paramilitary terrorists.
- Majella O’Hare (12), Whitecross, Co. Armagh, on way, with friends, to Confession, shot by 3 Parachute Reg’t soldier.
- Geraldine O’Reilly (14), Belturbet, Co. Cavan, while walking with her boyfriend, Patrick Stanley, outside Belturbet Post Office, killed by British paramilitary car-bomb.
- Sean O’Riordan (13), West Belfast, shot in back of head by British soldier.
- Michelle Osborne (13), Hannahstown, Co. Antrim, killed by British paramilitary terror bomb placed in Ballymacaward Kennel Club.
- Richard Quinn (10),
- Mark Quinn (9) and
- Jason Quinn (8), Ballymoney, Co. Antrim, burned to death by British paramilitary terrorists who fire-bombed them in their beds. Their mother had tried to protect them from just such Anti-Catholic attacks by raising them as Protestants; but they were deemed Catholic enough to merit death.
- Philip Rafferty (14), South Belfast, abducted from near his home and shot by British paramilitary terrorists.
- Patrick Rooney (9), West Belfast, while in bed, shot by RUC machine gun through wall.
- Francis Rowntree (11), West Belfast, shot in the head at close range by British soldiers.
- Michael Scott (10), North Belfast, while visiting his grandmother, burned to death along with her when British paramilitary terrorists firebombed her house.
- Brian Stewart (13), West Belfast, shot in head by plastic bullet at close range by British soldier.
- Paula Stronge (6), North Belfast, while playing in street, killed along with four-year-old Clair Hughes, in British paramilitary bombing of Benny’s Bar.
- James Templeton (15), South Belfast, while walking in front of Catholic bar that British paramilitary terrorists shot up after it was opened following an earlier British paramilitary bombing that killed eight adults.
- Peter Joseph Watterson (15), West Belfast, in front of his mother’s shop, shot in back by British paramilitary terrorists from passing car.
-Paul Whitters (15), Derry, shot at close range by RUC plastic bullet.


Conveniently, "Irish" people like you rarely, if ever have anything to say about the above. Pathetic.

Rascasse

Border-Rat wrote: »

If you're going to bat for your heroes using child-murder as an excuse, you really ought to learn how to pick your moments better. Lets take a look at your own heroes record re: Child Killing;.

He said he is neither a unionist nor from NI so its is unlikely "British paramilitary terrorists" or British soldiers are his 'heroes'.

Nice list, but Republican paramilitaries killed 57 Civilians aged 16 or under. No comment them?

Threads like these prove there is a small but vocal parts of the various communities that think there is still some kind of fight going on. When everyone else, seems to me, just wants to move on with life.

getzls

R P McMurphy wrote: »

I think you are nothing short of a disgrace with an attitude like that. Maybe you were content with the widgery report, I can only suggest that your comments on this thread are a result of gross ignorance

Ah! The Widgery report, the Saville Inquiry. After spending so much money the result from the Saville inquiry was never going to echo the Widgery. The Right result was produced if not necessary the correct one. How could it have been different when Martin McGuinness refused to answer some questions. Plus if the Right result had not been found, in another lot of years an even more expensive inquiry would have happened.

karma_

getzls wrote: »

Ah! The Widgery report, the Saville Inquiry. After spending so much money the result from the Saville inquiry was never going to echo the Widgery. The Right result was produced if not necessary the correct one. How could it have been different when Martin McGuinness refused to answer some questions. Plus if the Right result had not been found, in another lot of years an even more expensive inquiry would have happened.

Hold up! What do you mean 'not the correct one'? What was not correct about it?

getzls

Varied wrote: »

Here we go with statistics being thrown about in some sick justification for your ridiculous statements.





700 hundred Catholics burned out of their homes and 21 killed in just three days, are you going to bring up those little statistics? Now this was before the PIRA came along.

I and most other republicans condemn the warrington atrocity and want to see justice, yet you can't say one thing about the circumstances that Irish/catholics/republicans/nationlists had been in and why these things came about.

Debating with you and people like you seems pointless as you really know f**k all.

Do you as a Republican only condemn the atrocities that resulted in the deaths of children? Just a thought.

fasttalkerchat

getzls wrote: »

Do you as a Republican only condemn the atrocities that resulted in the deaths of children? Just a thought.

It is obvious that children are innocent. Statistics of adults can be questioned as to whether they were armed at the time or if they were targeted because of something they had done.

Nodin

getzls wrote: »

Ah! The Widgery report, the Saville Inquiry. After spending so much money the result from the Saville inquiry was never going to echo the Widgery. The Right result was produced if not necessary the correct one. How could it have been different when Martin McGuinness refused to answer some questions. Plus if the Right result had not been found, in another lot of years an even more expensive inquiry would have happened.

Do please explain.

christmas2012

about fvcking time too,jeausus what do they want the paratroopers to get away with it :pac:

getzls

Nodin wrote: »

Do please explain.

If the I.R.A. commander Martin McGuinness can not tell the truth at the inquiry what was the point of it. Was he not there? Getting his old Granny a pint of milk and missed it? Why was he nicknamed Machine gun McGuinness? Answers on a postcard if you prefer.

karma_

getzls wrote: »

Was he not there? Getting his old Granny a pint of milk and missed it?

Stay classy mate. Fourteen innocent people died, had their reputations tarnished and those responsible never even lost their jobs.

Yet here we are, 2 years after Saville when the truth finally came out and STILL there's some people out there who would still cast doubt on that, and instead try score cheap political points or go on anti-SF rants.

Here's the thing, Bloody Sunday has nothing to do with SF, nothing to do with any other incident of the Troubles and I wish people on all sides would drop the horseshít dragging it up over and over again on Bloody Sunday threads.

Bloody Sunday is about the families of those who died, it's about the people of Derry and looking some deserved Justice. Those people that day weren't marching for Republicanism, they were marching for Civil Rights.

getzls

Karma. I am not doubting most if not all were unlawfully killed that day.

karma_

getzls wrote: »

Karma. I am not doubting most if not all were unlawfully killed that day.

OK so, then what's your problem with a Police investigation?

A verdict of unlawful killing generally leads to a police investigation, with the aim of gathering sufficient evidence to identify, charge and prosecute the culprit(s).

Don't all murderers no matter who they are deserve to be brought to justice? Why in your view should the Bloody Sunday victims be any different?

Nodin

getzls wrote: »

If the I.R.A. commander Martin McGuinness can not tell the truth at the inquiry what was the point of it. Was he not there? Getting his old Granny a pint of milk and missed it? Why was he nicknamed Machine gun McGuinness? Answers on a postcard if you prefer.

What the fuck has that to do with the overall verdict?

fasttalkerchat

getzls wrote: »

If the I.R.A. commander Martin McGuinness can not tell the truth at the inquiry what was the point of it. Was he not there? Getting his old Granny a pint of milk and missed it? Why was he nicknamed Machine gun McGuinness? Answers on a postcard if you prefer.

Half of Derry were IRA members. The other half joined after Bloody Sunday. Of course there were members in the city that day. There was no active IRA operation and all 14 were innocent people murdered by British soldiers. You picked a bad thread.

getzls

karma_ wrote: »

OK so, then what's your problem with a Police investigation?



Don't all murderers no matter who they are deserve to be brought to justice? Why in your view should the Bloody Sunday victims be any different?

There's a saying doing the rounds. The Hierarchy of victims. Why no inquiries over, for example the killing of children in their prams? That would not appease S.F. Or an inquirey over two of my friends who were murdered by the I.R.A. The Police will leave MMG alone, and others like him.

Tiocfaidh Armani

getzls wrote: »

There's a saying doing the rounds. The Hierarchy of victims. Why no inquiries over, for example the killing of children in their prams? That would not appease S.F. Or an inquirey over two of my friends who were murdered by the I.R.A. The Police will leave MMG alone, and others like him.

Why no inquiries? Because every time the IRA farted there was a massive police and state operation to get those responsible. Was that done here? No. The opposite actually. Hence the need for an inquiry because of the lack of one previously. Duh.

PieandMash

karma_ wrote: »

Stay classy mate. Fourteen innocent people died, had their reputations tarnished and those responsible never even lost their jobs.

Yet here we are, 2 years after Saville when the truth finally came out and STILL there's some people out there who would still cast doubt on that, and instead try score cheap political points or go on anti-SF rants.

Here's the thing, Bloody Sunday has nothing to do with SF, nothing to do with any other incident of the Troubles and I wish people on all sides would drop the horseshít dragging it up over and over again on Bloody Sunday threads.

Bloody Sunday is about the families of those who died, it's about the people of Derry and looking some deserved Justice. Those people that day weren't marching for Republicanism, they were marching for Civil Rights.

Wasn't that the point of the Good Friday Agreement? To put the past to the past and to move into peaceful times? All this is doing is opening a can of worms, trying to prosecute people for crimes they committed 40 years ago and trying to create a hierarchy of victims.

Why can't people just stick to the Good Friday Agreement and just move on? The past is the past, the people who got murdered on Bloody Sunday are dead. End of story.

Many people from the Protestant community would like Martin Mcguinness locked up for Claudy or Gerry Adams for the murder of Jean McConville but ain't going to happen.

Just stop this nonsense and move. The younger generation is not interested in this any more. It is over, please try to move on and stop being bitter about it.

There is no point in learning about the names of the soldiers who did it when you have thousands of unsolved murder cases and the people who committed them unknown and we will never know and many people would actually like to just put it all to the side and move on.

This is history now, it is all in the past and it should stay in the past. Stop trying to bring it all back up again.

carbon nanotube

getzls wrote: »

British justice is/was a lot better than the I.R.A. justice. Yes i think some were murdered then. Do we jail these solders now and let Martin the DFM stay free? No i say.

the same brit justice that jailed the northern lads, birmingham six lads because of their accents?

arybvtcw0eolkf

Fenian Army wrote: »

My heart screams that those responsible should be prosecuted... (I can think of better medicine)

But listening to my head, as I try to do, I would rather see a general amnesty and a peace and reconciliation forum like SA.

You know what, I think like the meeting with Q.E. and MMG that some day it will happen and there'll be a massive sigh of relief and 'its about bloody time'.

I think a Truth and Reconciliation Forum, and an amnesty for those who testify will do more or peace on this God forsaken wind and rain soaked rock than anything else.

dizzywizlw

Slightly disconcerted that the 'reconciliatory' atmosphere is being tinged as a move away from pursuing political union between IRL and NI, certainly I would have expected a lot more comment from pro-reunification circles but instead all we hear is the right honourable loyalist douche first minister talking about how such steps prove a united Ireland is dying.

For the record, I'm anti-SF and anti-Unionist and in no way a follower of the constructed 'Irishness' that's caused all this ****e.

With regards to a murder investigation, so long as the soldiers are treated with the same leniency as the other murderers during the troubles I've no problem with it. I'd rather see RUC-SB answer for its crimes considering they were the prime driver of sectarian state violence.

bwatson

karma_ wrote: »

Stay classy mate. Fourteen innocent people died, had their reputations tarnished and those responsible never even lost their jobs.

Yet here we are, 2 years after Saville when the truth finally came out and STILL there's some people out there who would still cast doubt on that, and instead try score cheap political points or go on anti-SF rants.

Here's the thing, Bloody Sunday has nothing to do with SF, nothing to do with any other incident of the Troubles and I wish people on all sides would drop the horseshít dragging it up over and over again on Bloody Sunday threads.

Bloody Sunday is about the families of those who died, it's about the people of Derry and looking some deserved Justice. Those people that day weren't marching for Republicanism, they were marching for Civil Rights.

This is about justice for the people of Derry? What justice is there in former republican terrorists from said city being granted amnesty and subsequently taking up positions in government while soldiers of the Parachute Regiment are put on trial for something like this?

Sometimes I feel quite confused as to what people mean when they refer to justice. Surely justice must include equal treatment for all those involved?

Border-Rat

Rascasse wrote: »

He said he is neither a unionist nor from NI so its is unlikely "British paramilitary terrorists" or British soldiers are his 'heroes'.

Nice list, but Republican paramilitaries killed 57 Civilians aged 16 or under. No comment them?

Threads like these prove there is a small but vocal parts of the various communities that think there is still some kind of fight going on. When everyone else, seems to me, just wants to move on with life.

Does that include the instances where the FRU would take weapons from Provo caches, shoot children, leave the weapons back then plaster it over the news that the IRA had shot Catholic children by accident - using ballistics from 'found' arms caches as evidence?

And ironically, the above act of absolute scumbaggery was 'whistle blown' by a Loyalist.