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Could you domesticate a tiger?
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MagicMarker wrote: »Pics or GTFO tbh.
Just as soon as I feel I have anything to prove to you I am sure I will
I do not however and I have no compulsion to put pictures of any of my family - of which he very much is - on the net.
The point of my post is to answer the OP that living with any animal - domesticated or otherwise - is not easy and should never be taken lightly - and given the differences between dogs and cats - and my own experiences with a wolf - I can only imagine that life with a tiger would be even more proportionally challanging than anything I have experienced from the canine world.
Anyway, screw the tiger. I would love to get a Lynx.0 -
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Deleted User wrote: »Just as soon as I feel I have anything to prove to you I am sure I will I do not however and I have no compulsion to put pictures of any of my family - of which he very much is - on the net.
Well done on being full of shít.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »Just as soon as I feel I have anything to prove to you I am sure I will I do not however and I have no compulsion to put pictures of any of my family - of which he very much is - on the net.
The point of my post is to answer the OP that living with any animal - domesticated or otherwise - is not easy and should never be taken lightly - and given the differences between dogs and cats - and my own experiences with a wolf - I can only imagine that life with a tiger would be even more proportionally challanging than anything I have experienced from the canine world.
Anyway, screw the tiger. I would love to get a Lynx.
Why are you reluctant to put pictures of your wolf up on here? Kidnap threats?
Also you can buy Lynx in most supermarkets nowadays. :cool:0 -
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Cheetahs are the easiest big cat to tame. Although its not really a bug cat, its just the biggest of the lesser cats. People have kept pet cheethas for centuries. Even the Ancient Egyptians had pet cheetahs. The Indian kings used to use them for hunting deer. Cool video on youtube about it. If you raise them as cubs, they'll grow up to be very tame. Only problem with domesticating them (like with any other big cat) is that they don't breed too well in captivity.
There's a really good documentary where this guy raises two Cheetah cubs whose mother was killed by a lion, to adulthood and teaches them to hunt and live in the wild. Its called from flight to freedom. The Cheetahs formed a really close bond to their carers and were pretty much like large domestic cats. Unfortunately one of them got killed by a lion but the other one grew up and is presumed to still be alive in an enclosed santuary to protect him from getting attacked and killed by other cheetas or the local farmers.
Also nothing says badass as having a leopard riding shotgun in your car!
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BillyMitchel wrote: »http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features/4410772/Sophia-11-is-wild-about-her-pet-lynx.html
Just came across this. Not something I think I'd be into. The lion man from new zeland claimed that with lions it was be pretty easy to train and get along with but tigers are the complete opposite and a very unpredictable.
That English documentary maker ( Louis. T) made a real good one about chimps and other monkeys as pets. Not something is be into at all. Probably find it on YouTube.
Lynx can get pretty ugly too...
But then if you're gonna have any wild cat as a pet, you'll need to know how to keep it happy and how to put up with its hissing, screeming, growling, spraying and all...0 -
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af_thefragile wrote: »
Also nothing says badass as having a leopard riding shotgun in your car!
Bastard would make sh*t of the paintwork and use your seats as scratching posts/chew toys.0 -
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Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,171 Mod ✭✭✭✭
Join Date:Posts: 59099
Not by much. There are no "breeds" of wolves as such, only sub(sub) species. Crossing a Carpathian wolf with an Alaskan would give you a mix of the two alright, but they'd still be "wolfy" looking.Deleted User wrote: »It is a mixed breed between two types of wolf which has some effect I am sure.
Nope, but have an interest in wolves and some experience in being face to face with the "real deal". The attributes I mention stand out as "dog". Particularly the wide chest and heavy set body. Wolves are significantly less bulky than most huskies and certainly less so than Malumutes(which I'm sure the authors dog is mostly made up of). The face mask is near pure Mal. As are his feet. Huge feet I grant you, but rounded, not huge with the much longer toes of a wolf. I'd put money down that if you showed Mal owners that pic of the author with his "wolf" they'd say "Malumute". The main difference being his straight tail at rest. I'd believe he was a low content wolf cross alright, but I'd bet the famr he's nowhere near pure wolf. This pic from the flic Dances with wolves shows the diffs. Aside, one of the very few films that used the real deal. 90% use mals and others like Czech wolfdogs(recognised breed who have recent wolf admixture in them). Note his paws. Huge, but loooong. Note his head. Very wide tapering to a point(with little stop to the forehead) and much larger in comparison to his body. The heavily furred ears, the slant to the eyes etc. Look at how apparently slightly built he is(though much stronger than most dogs). His coat colour another giveaway. No very defined mask. He also has "wild" colouring. Dogs, even huskies, can be various shades of grey and brown like that, but wolf fur displays different colours along the hair shaft itself. This is rare enough in dogs. In the flesh walking down the street you'd be unlikely to mistake him for a husky.When I look through pictures on google for the two breeds in question I am not seeing much difference between him and them - in terms of the attributes you listed - though. It seems a lot for you to go on from one photo - though I am not vet (are you out of curiosity?).
Eye colour. If he's got blue or light silver eyes he's not a wolf. Ditto for dark brown eyes. Gait as you say is different. Wolves run more level with head down, with little lift of the paws. More sneaky looking.Certainly despite a lot of experience with dogs in the past - including with the greyish black husky people know well in Ireland - he is like no dog I have ever been around or owned. Everything from behaviour - to eye color - to his very gait as he runs (there is a fascinating difference between how dogs and wolves run) is noticably different.
One biggy is look at his prints in wet sand. Dog prints tend to be wide like two lines in the track, wolf is almost a single track(and longer toed). They never posses dewclaws. Behaviour again like you say is gonna be different. Housebreaking? Forget about it. Game over. Incredibly food aggressive. Don't like confinement in a house. Very destructive. Zero recall. Very prey focussed. Aggressive towards other dogs. Nervy as hell, so about as much use as a chocolate teapot as a watchdog. Dig holes like a miner. Training capability minimal, unless you have endless supplies of premium steak to hand. Never bark. Bit of a yap at best. As it matures could get very hard to handle. They mature later too. Now many of those traits are seen in the northern breeds like Mals and other Huskies and people not used to same can get a right shock, but imagine a northern breed after hoovering up 4 grams of cocaine. And dropping high powered blotter acid.
IIRC legally here we're more the way the UK was back in the bad old days. I don't think there's any specific laws on that score as far as percentages. You could probably even get away with the real deal if you were quiet about it and had the right enclosures. Though that brings up another issue. Where do these "wolves" come from? They're not easy to come by even in the US where they run wild. So there are few, very few if any in the breeding stock out there. There's gonna be feck all in Ireland. Precious few Czech and Saarloos Wolfdogs and even fewer mid/high content crosses, though there are a couple of UK breeders farming them out. Daft in my humble, as you've no idea what you're likely to get. This lack of wolf blood in the overall mix makes it more likely you end up with inbreeding and/or breeding for the mix, rather than temperament. Daft again in my humble. You do have the more recent Tamaskan dogs, specifically bred to look like wolves, but it came out a while back that in many of the lines both Czech/Saarloos and the real deal may have been put in the mix.What I can tell you, and you called it yourself when you came up with one of the reasons I do not really want to be posting pictures on here, is that there is a legal % dog:wolf ratio for legally owning any kind of hybrid in this country and I believe we are on the wrong side of it.
TL;DR(understandable
) It's a minefield. The vast majority of "wolves" and "wolfdogs" are mal/husky/GSD mixes. These mixes can be hard going as they're working dogs, not "house dogs". The real deal full blood wolf would be near impossible to have in the home and could actually be lifethreatening and as rare as rocking horse shíte anyway. Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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Don't you want a tiger now... don't you... look at it... dawwwww!!!!
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Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,171 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 59099
Oh yea true. I mean in that pic with the author his whole body shape is "wrong". Built more like a prizefighter than a long distance runner. The legs go straight down from the shoulders. Kinda like I I whereas the wolf would be more knock kneed if you know what I mean?Deleted User wrote: »^ I still think it is a lot to go on from one picture. Especially a face on one like that. While shoulders might look wide in a picture - for example - one thing I notice with him is when you actually lay your hand on him there is a difference between how wide he looks and how wide he actually is. The Fur adds a lot to the eye.
Good descriptionThe gait is one of the most amazing things. The book I read alerted me to it before I even got him but did not prepare me for it. As they run their whole body wastes almost no motion in the vertical direction. Whereas you could graph the motion of a dogs shoulders and the graph would look like a series of n's his gait would be very close indeed to a near perfect straight horizontal line.
Well they don't bark, but are very vocal in other ways compared to dogs. All sorts of odd whines and whinys. Oh and the howling... they can even meow like a cat.Most of the other things you list as characteristics of wolves fit right down to the eery silence of no barking, whinging or anything.
If you could repeat that with a confirmed wolf you got a job in the movie biz.More trainable than you seem to think though but it was WORK I can tell you. He has some useful tricks I have taught him though including putting on a VERY agressive posture and teeth bearing on command - something one of my gfs was very happy about once when she felt threatened one time.
Wolves fight differently to dogs. They're more "judo" experts. Use their bodyweight and holds as well as teeth. Very few dogs one on one could take one. A wild wolf would tear a mastiff to pieces. Most "wolfhounds" were bred to take on a single wolf as part of a pack, even then they would often lose members of the pack. The Irish wolfhound is one of the very few designed to take one on mano e mano singlehandedly and look at the size of them. :eek:The ONE time he had a fight - it was started on him by three dogs of the german shepard variety which - although matched him pound for pound in size and weight - did not stand a chance. That fight was over rather quickly indeed and watching it was like watching ballet. If it was not violence we were talking about I would be tempted to describe it as beauty in motion. Picture Bruce Lee against three drunkards and the class difference in natural fighting ability will become clear. It was like he had - something like the sherlock holmes movies that recently came out - already mapped out the movements that would most efficiently end the confrontation before the first "blow" was even struck.
I don't doubt you may have a wolfdog cross T, but I'd have serious doubts you have a high content. It's possible mind you, but I'd be surprised.Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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af_thefragile wrote: »BillyMitchel wrote: »http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features/4410772/Sophia-11-is-wild-about-her-pet-lynx.html
Just came across this. Not something I think I'd be into. The lion man from new zeland claimed that with lions it was be pretty easy to train and get along with but tigers are the complete opposite and a very unpredictable.
That English documentary maker ( Louis. T) made a real good one about chimps and other monkeys as pets. Not something is be into at all. Probably find it on YouTube.
Lynx can get pretty ugly too...
But then if you're gonna have any wild cat as a pet, you'll need to know how to keep it happy and how to put up with its hissing, screeming, growling, spraying and all...
Holy crap! That's some strange noises.. Think I'd give that a miss.0 -
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For anyone interested here is the documentary on the Russian scientist who domesticated foxes
Cheers for that, interesting!0 -
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Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,171 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 59099
Yea this is a big part of it. TBH I'm glad it's the case and that we don't have people with high content wolfdogs, or wolves kept as "pets". It would be a tragedy waiting to happen and a tragedy for the animal itself. Actually I'd worry more about a wolfdog hybrid than a wolf. We selected for aggression and guarding and bravery and stability around people over tens of thousands of years, traits normally lacking in wolves. Wolves tend to be excessively shy, highly variable and reactive and only aggressive if cornered, with a yellow streak all the way to the bone. A wolf would never guard you or your property. At the first hint of danger it would think "you're on your own monkey boy/eh why aren't you running away too?". It's one of the reasons why wolf attacks on humans are very rare. You would think there would have been more given humans are a pretty easy target. Mixing the traits of a wolf with the traits of a dog would be like a grenade with the pin out. Many of the famous European wolf attacks are now thought to have been wolf dog hybrids(the beast of somewhere or other in France in the 1700's a good example. Name escapes I'm afraid). Expert breeding programmes like with the Czech and Saarloos Wolfdog and Lupo italiano took serious effort and time and experience to get a breed that was stable(though still a handful). Some gimp in a shed mixing wolf with husky or GSD doesn't really compare and is usually in it for the money, or has some hippie notion of the call of the wild going on.helimachoptor wrote: »From my own pov and tax this isn't a dig I hear so many people say "oh I've got a wolf" and it's a husky.
Yea and lions will kill family members IIRC. I read that males will kill all the offspring of a previous male if given half a chance. Well dodgy. We lucked out with the wolf and they with us. After all their wild cousins are threatened in a few of their habitats, yet their domestic cousins are one of the most common large mammals on the planet. And they likely helped us to out compete all other previous humans that were around. Result.From my own experience getting raised alongside gsd's and then having my own I would say a lion would be easiest. Pack animal however a junior will inevitably challenge the alpha, an alpha lion will slap down a beta or will survive if it's cast out. A serious challenge from a lion to a human will end in death for the humanTax and wibbs this has been the most interesting AH thread in my boards time. And wibbs how the hell do you know so much about everything!? tnx. I dunno, I have one of those memories that doesn't really forget and have always been interested in lots of "stuff", usually unrelated(though politics and sport with a few exceptions leaves me cold), so mix that together... Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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helimachoptor wrote: »From my own pov and tax this isn't a dig I hear so many people say "oh I've got a wolf" and it's a husky.
Me too. I was quite careful with my process though. As I imported him and was not there to do the works and checks myself I had people do a lot of it for me. Again without giving out too much information for reasons already covered: Professional Vets were sourced through channels I trust and approached the breeders in question on my behalf and I had them ensure legitimacy to the best of their abilities - health check the animal before I purchased it for me - and oversee the shipping process to me - which for other similar reasons occured to the UK not Ireland - where I met the shipment and brought it myself to Ireland.
It was quite a complex process and despite my relatively limited knowledge on the subject to some - though clearly higher than the lay man - I am happy to put some faith in the people involved and that I got what I paid for and was after. What ever he is at the end of the day though I can certainly say he ain't no Husky
Not sure what one would need to go through to source - buy - and import a tiger though. That would be an interesting story to hear over a few pints.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »Not sure what one would need to go through to source - buy - and import a tiger though. That would be an interesting story to hear over a few pints.
Man just head to Vegas you can get anything there!
Or open a wildlife park 0 -
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