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Buying a Westie pup Today, need advice QUICKLY!
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And health tests are so, so important now with how the breeds are ending up. I met a beautiful long haired german shepherd yesterday, just nine months old but with obvious hip dysplasia
Poor dog is going to in a lot of trouble in the next year or so.
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loveisdivine wrote: »
I am sure most people don't get the dog health tested before buying a pup
That doesnt matter Carly, thats not the attitude to have. Its up to the buyer to make sure they buy from health tested parents and responsible breeders. Do you know how bad this country is in with regards to unhealthy dogs that are put to sleep and over breeding?0 -
And health tests are so, so important now with how the breeds are ending up. I met a beautiful long haired german shepherd yesterday, just nine months old but with obvious hip dysplasia
Poor dog is going to in a lot of trouble in the next year or so.
A friend of mine has a beautiful long haird male german shepard, 6 months, he stayed with us last week.... obvious hip dysplasia too... he back legs wobble as he walks and kinda each lef kinda crosses over etc...
its just sooo sad0 -
I find there is a sinister element to "propper breeders" also. They always have a waiting list due to other breeders needing a bitch or a dog to breed, they always hang around in little tight little circles. Due to the internet, they start selling dogs to other country's specifically for breeding. They also over charge on the price of the dog and claim "health Benifits" yet cannot guarantee this.
Not only that but they practice selective breeding which is a common characteristic of a Nazi
My advice just rescue this dog will become a part of your family and like members of your family, you have good and bad mostly good.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »I find there is a sinister element to "propper breeders" also. They always have a waiting list due to other breeders needing a bitch or a dog to breed, they always hang around in little tight little circles. Due to the internet, they start selling dogs to other country's specifically for breeding. They also over charge on the price of the dog and claim "health Benifits" yet cannot guarantee this.
Not only that but they practice selective breeding which is a common characteristic of a Nazi
My advice just rescue this dog will become a part of your family and like members of your family, you have good and bad mostly good.
Sorry but i disagree. Responsible breeders have waiting lists because they dont breed very often. They usually only breed when they want to keep something for themselves, or the dog is of exceptional quality and has become a champion in its breed etc.
Depending on the breed, the bitch might only have 5/6 pups so if people are looking for a good pup they might have to wait a while.
They certainly do not over charge. Do you know how much it actually costs to breed and raise a litter properly?? Im guessing not.
There is nothing about "health benefits", its health tests that are done on the parents. Nothing can be guaranteed but if the parents are health tested then it reduces the risk of any problems being passed on to the pups.0 -
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Deleted User wrote: »I find there is a sinister element to "propper breeders" also. They always have a waiting list due to other breeders needing a bitch or a dog to breed, they always hang around in little tight little circles. Due to the internet, they start selling dogs to other country's specifically for breeding. They also over charge on the price of the dog and claim "health Benifits" yet cannot guarantee this.
In that case, I think we have very different opinions on what the word 'proper' means. A proper breeder to me is one that health tests both parents before breeding, does not breed either until they are at least two years old, each pup is fed high quality food, microchipped, vaccinated, wormed, vet checked and is only sold on a contract that they MUST be returned to the breeder if there are any issues. I'm not big on showing, and to me it sounds like what you're describing are some show people (not all of them obviously because I've met a lot lovely show people who would bend over backwards to help you out, but the kind you talk about are those that give dog showing a bad name)0 -
In that case, I think we have very different opinions on what the word 'proper' means. A proper breeder to me is one that health tests both parents before breeding, does not breed either until they are at least two years old, each pup is fed high quality food, microchipped, vaccinated, wormed, vet checked and is only sold on a contract that they MUST be returned to the breeder if there are any issues. I'm not big on showing, and to me it sounds like what you're describing are some show people (not all of them obviously because I've met a lot lovely show people who would bend over backwards to help you out, but the kind you talk about are those that give dog showing a bad name)
So if you do get a dog and that dog ends up having health issues and you sold that dog to a family. Why would the family return it ? ? Would the breeder pay the vet bills ?0 -
He said he stopped registering the pups because of the price involved.
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My own westie lived for 15 years, but always had skin/coat problems. Got her in 1997/1998 when only dial-up was around, from a woman in a small house in the middle of Connamara.
When I buy a dog myself in the future, I'll be doing a lot of research!0 -
Sorry but i disagree. Responsible breeders have waiting lists because they dont breed very often. They usually only breed when they want to keep something for themselves, or the dog is of exceptional quality and has become a champion in its breed etc.
Depending on the breed, the bitch might only have 5/6 pups so if people are looking for a good pup they might have to wait a while.
They certainly do not over charge. Do you know how much it actually costs to breed and raise a litter properly?? Im guessing not.
There is nothing about "health benefits", its health tests that are done on the parents. Nothing can be guaranteed but if the parents are health tested then it reduces the risk of any problems being passed on to the pups.
I am just generalizing like everybody else here. With regards to the dog problem within Ireland, "proper breeders" are not exempt from any of this.
Just walking your Champion line pedigree dog down the street is advertisement in itself. How many people see that and think "i want a dog"
How about banning all breeding and sale of dogs for 15 years. The only way to obtain a dog is from a shelter. Fixed price on all breeds and cross breeds.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »So if you do get a dog and that dog ends up having health issues and you sold that dog to a family. Why would the family return it ? ? Would the breeder pay the vet bills ?
Any breeder worth his salt would at least offer what they paid for the dog as a refund, and help in any way they can. And the issues I meant were that they couldn't keep the dog/were emigrating and such, that the dog must be returned to the breeder and not sold to a third party, put in a pound.0 -
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Deleted User wrote: »I am just generalizing like everybody else here. With regards to the dog problem within Ireland, "proper breeders" are not exempt from any of this.
Just walking your Champion line pedigree dog down the street is advertisement in itself. How many people see that and think "i want a dog" How about banning all breeding and sale of dogs for 15 years. The only way to obtain a dog is from a shelter. Fixed price on all breeds and cross breeds.
Sorry but i completley disagree on this highlighted point. Its far from an advertisement.
Ive a champion dog whos done an awful lot of winning and is available for stud, but do you know how many times hes been used? 3, and hes nearly 6. He was top in his breed for 2011, has won several big awards but the demand isnt there like you think it is.
I dont advertise him on donedeal or the likes. Hes on the Club website, and my own website but there still isnt huge demand for stud dogs, well not the way you seem to think there is.
Contrary to what you think is going on, i think you really dont have a clue.
If people bred responsibly and werent cross breeding dogs and selling to dodgy people then there wouldnt be the amount of dogs in rescue in the first place.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »I am just generalizing like everybody else here. With regards to the dog problem within Ireland, "proper breeders" are not exempt from any of this.
Just walking your Champion line pedigree dog down the street is advertisement in itself. How many people see that and think "i want a dog" How about banning all breeding and sale of dogs for 15 years. The only way to obtain a dog is from a shelter. Fixed price on all breeds and cross breeds.
Sorry but i completley disagree on this highlighted point. Its far from an advertisement.
Ive a champion dog whos done an awful lot of winning and is available for stud, but do you know how many times hes been used? 3, and hes nearly 6. He was top in his breed for 2011, has won several big awards but the demand isnt there like you think it is.
I dont advertise him on donedeal or the likes. Hes on the Club website, and my own website but there still isnt huge demand for stud dogs, well not the way you seem to think there is.
Contrary to what you think is going on, i think you really dont have a clue.
If people bred responsibly and werent cross breeding dogs and selling to dodgy people then there wouldnt be the amount of dogs in rescue in the first place.
Everyone is entitled to there opinion0 -
Sorry but i completley disagree on this highlighted point. Its far from an advertisement.
Ive a champion dog whos done an awful lot of winning and is available for stud, but do you know how many times hes been used? 3, and hes nearly 6. He was top in his breed for 2011, has won several big awards but the demand isnt there like you think it is.
I dont advertise him on donedeal or the likes. Hes on the Club website, and my own website but there still isnt huge demand for stud dogs, well not the way you seem to think there is.
Contrary to what you think is going on, i think you really dont have a clue.
If people bred responsibly and werent cross breeding dogs and selling to dodgy people then there wouldnt be the amount of dogs in rescue in the first place.
The amount of dogs in the pounds is down to consumerism. We live in a society were advertising has a big impact on peoples everyday life. By wearing a designer top or designer runners, you are advertising. By walking your dog or even showing your dog. (like fashion designers) you are sending a message to people, consumers if you will who will think. "I want one" These people then go to done deal or puppy farms and buy dogs.
How can you say this is not true ?0 -
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Deleted User wrote: »The amount of dogs in the pounds is down to consumerism. We live in a society were advertising has a big impact on peoples everyday life. By wearing a designer top or designer runners, you are advertising. By walking your dog or even showing your dog. (like fashion designers) you are sending a message to people, consumers if you will who will think. "I want one" These people then go to done deal or puppy farms and buy dogs.
How can you say this is not true ?
No the amount of dogs that are in pounds is down to bad owners and bad breeders full stop. Nothing to do with consumerism. I can buy a dog and have it for life and treat it well etc, but the next person could buy one and just get rid when they have a new baby, etc etc, thats bad ownership, nothing to do with consumerism. People are far too quick to "get rid" of their dogs when they cant be bothered to work with it, train it etc when theres an issue. Thats why pounds etc are full.
So because someone walks a pedigree dog down the road its encouraging people to buy? Sure that can be said about anything then.
You initially said "Champion" pedigree. Unless you speak to the owner or know the dog personally, no one know the dog is an actual champion so how can you can you say that?0 -
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Exactly Dre, we are having a discussion, no one is right or wrong, apart from me, lol0
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Dre as in Dray wrote: »
Well all i am saying as long as the dog has a loving home nothing else matters0 -
Well all i am saying as long as the dog has a loving home nothing else matters
While it is fantastic to give a dog a loving home, one must then wonder, what about said dog's parents? Grandparents? Is it fair on them to live a life of misery so people can continue to give their pups a good life?0 -
Deleted User wrote: »I am just generalizing like everybody else here. With regards to the dog problem within Ireland, "proper breeders" are not exempt from any of this.
Just walking your Champion line pedigree dog down the street is advertisement in itself. How many people see that and think "i want a dog"
How about banning all breeding and sale of dogs for 15 years. The only way to obtain a dog is from a shelter. Fixed price on all breeds and cross breeds.
How would that work? how would there be any dogs in shelters if there is no breeding, or would the only dogs there be those that have been seized because people have broken the law? so none of them would have had the relevant health checks, so only dogs with potential would be available, and when the ban was lifted, what state would dogs be in?0 -
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how I can get my hands on a PROPER Westie pup as soon as possible.
What's the rush?
Are you sure you've given getting a dog the proper consideration it deserves? Because, to be quite honest, it seems from the outside looking in that this is an impulse driven decision. Read here saying to stay away from DD, tried to Westie Club and when they didn't give you an immediate response you immediately went on donedeal and started ringing people.
You were then about to rush off and hand someone money for a dog whose background you'd know nothing of, the health status of which you'd know nothing of and all because he was a nice guy and you want a Westie pup and you want it NOW.
What I'm saying, and I know you're going to disregard this advice going by the tone of your posts but I'll say it anyway, is that you should take a step back and ask if you're really in a position to be taking on a dog. I'd also worry that when you hear the price of a well bred dog you'll run straight back to DD.
If you're happy with the price of a pure bred dog from a decent breeder then I would advise you to put your name on the list for their next litter. It'll give you time to think whether it's really for you and give you time to prepare for having a dog. There's a lot of things to consider, you blatantly disregarded a lot of the advice on this forum to do with sourcing the dog so you should really take stock of advice on whether dog ownership is for you.
The above is said with only positive things in mind. The "I want one and I want it NOW" attitude is, among other things, what is keeping the pounds across the country filled to the brim and good dogs being sentenced to death for merely having been picked out of the litter by the wrong person.0 -
I have to ask as well what is the rush? Do you have small kids? I have a Westie and wouldn't really recommend them for a house with small children. Westies have a low tolerance to messing, and they aren't really lap dogs. They look gorgeous yes, but they can have bad skin and delicate tummies. You must do your research with the parents etc. I got mine from family friend, got to see family line etc. I've been lucky my fella has really good skin, though he's a feisty fella and you have to be strong willed to deal with him. All that said, if you find a decent breeder and give your pup loads of proper training, they make a fantastic loyal pet. Theres nothing my fella likes more than cuddles in the bed when my OH gets up but it took a lot of work, an awful lot of work0
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Hi OP,
I have an unregistered Westie from an accidental litter. I did a lot of research to decide on the Breed I wanted and felt a Westie was a good fit. However, the information I had researched was all based on well-bred dogs free of problems for the most part as that is the 'type' of dog that people who make this information available produce. The Breed manuals etc. are written by people with extensive experience in 'well-bred' dogs from tried and tested lines, with only the dogs with outstanding temperament, conformation, health and genes used in breeding programs. Finding such a dog is a different matter entirely.
Rescues don't re-home Westies to homes with kids, so that option was out. I contacted the breed club in Ireland, and the IKC, both of which were absolutely no help and advised me look on advert sites and small ads in newspapers. I'm not sure which but one of these organisations gave me a number for a lady who had just registered a litter. I rang this woman who told me all sorts of wonderful things, such as they are great little dogs, happy out lazing around the house and easy to bring in the car etc. etc. a perfectly scripted marketing campaign. So then I asked her some questions and all of a sudden she was unsure of everything and eventually what I got from her was this:
She had 2 litters of pups living in a garden shed with no human contact other than getting fed and cleaned out. She couldn't be sure which pups belonged to which bitch. She is too old to deal with the mess they would make in the house and the best bit - the man said this, the man said that etc. What man? The man who was supplementing her pension, and came every so often to clean the mess in the shed, the man on whose behalf she had registered his dogs in her name, that's what man. Needless to say I never visited.
Then after many, many similar phone calls I found an advert pinned on a vet's noticeboard and that's where I got my dog. The owner had obviously put some effort into finding their own dogs from a reputable source as their bitches papers were endorsed as 'not to be bred from, progeny cannot be registered'. Whoever sold them that dog had made a determination that she was not suitable to be bred from for whatever reason. Unfortunately these people where somewhat naive, they didn't spay her because they didn't want to ruin her coat and got a second dog as 'company' for her. When their bitch went into heat with the new pup around they asked a livestock vet for advice, who said the pup was too young to breed - he was wrong. And so they had a litter of puppies that couldn't be registered. When I met their pup he was recovering form his neutering op. So based on what information I had, I chose a pup form that litter which just happened to be the one they were considering keeping for themselves. She was very well socialised and very used to their daughter, unfortunately the others didn't appear to have been given the same level of attention. I did not see any paperwork for their dogs as they did not want to show it as they were in breach of the contract with the breeder they got the bitch from and that person could have demanded the dog back from them. They were willing to hand them over to a vet to verify what they had said was true though.
I don't know the history of my dogs lines, I don't know what her pedigree is and I don't know why the bitches papers were endorsed or if she is overly inbred, but from an ethical point of view I felt satisfied that they had done their best to avoid this happening again and they accepted it shouldn't have happened in the first place.
My dog is extremely highly strung and as pup became increasingly hyperactive, to the point of crashing into walls head first just because they were in her path. People kept telling me that this was just normal Westie behavior as they are all 'stone-mad' which to me is an indication of the problems rife in the breed, this is not normal behaviour for any dog. At 18 weeks old she went into heat which the vet ruled the most likely cause of was a hormone imbalance, so she was spayed just short of 6 months old. I don't know if there may be associated repercussions with this in future, if it means she has an increased risk of certain cancers because of it or if some other non-reproductive hormone issues will crop up. I can just hope that having her spayed has limited any associated problems. She also has food allergies which contributed to the craziness, it took a year and half of trial and error, and error, and more error to find a diet that was suitable for her. She can't have any food that contains chicken or chicken by products which is 99% of dog foods on the market as most non-chicken foods contain 'poultry fat'. She has bad reactions to her vaccinations, certain wormers and it's almost impossible to find appropriate dog treats. I've tried her on a raw diet - it didn't work, I've tried her on a home cooked diet - but I can't guarantee that I can get the balance of nutrients right by doing this. It's a never-ending dog food saga. She is two years old now so I try to avoid all of the common ingredients that cause allergies as problems sometimes only show up later on in the dogs life. Thankfully the only apparent effect so far has been hyperactivity/vomiting/constipation/bloating/diarrhoea when she occasionally gets her teeth on something she shouldn't have. She has had no scratching or skin problems but that doesn't mean they won't manifest later. She gets regular vet check-ups to make sure no other problems are turning up but I expect they will as she gets older. Either way the cost will be no issue, whatever she needs will be paid for.
To my detriment, for some reason it never occurred to me to look into breeders in Northern Ireland, possibly because the Irish breed club also covers NI and no-one had advised me that the NI club was the best route or indeed that it even had a separate breed club. In all honesty, although I had considered health implications along with ethical issues, and was fully aware that there were risks with a dog with unknown background, I under-estimated just how mentally exhausting the whole thing would be and in terms of Westie heath problems my dog's have been extremely minor so far. I wouldn't do it again to be honest, and at the time I was completely sure that a pup from an accidental litter was the best option available to me at the time given what my experience with the IKC and breed club had led me to. If I were to run into the same problems again trying to find a dog, I'd be going back to square one and considering a different breed.
Thankfully, you have had the benefit of being given all this information in advance, so are in a much better position than I was. I'm glad you started your thread today and not tomorrow with the opening post saying - I have just bought a Westie puppy, how can I register him/her.0 -
What I'm saying, and I know you're going to disregard this advice going by the tone of your posts
In fairness to the OP, RHarrow, I think this statement is a little harsh. While the "tone" of the initial posts was exceedingly naive, in line with all those poor dupes who buy their dogs from the site, at least as AJ said, they did start this thread before making the irrevocable leap of actually buying a pup.
And as for their response to the deluge of good advice that has been flowing, well I felt it was surprisingly open-minded and sensible. They obviously took some time about writing the 2nd post, and did not see DBB's information until after hitting post, but already said they were getting cold feet, and once they did see it, requested that she send them the NI details.
Like others on here, I would hope that "as soon as possible" will accommodate being on a waiting list for one of those pups, and after being given a full list of heart-breaking things to google by DBB, would be surprised if it won't.0 -
I would like to make a brief point a bit off topic in the midst of all this talk of breeding etc. One of the reasons Ireland has such a serious problem with puppy farms has to be the preference in Irish people for "posh or designer dogs". It really does drive me crazy. So many Irish people will look to the likes of dd to buy a "designer" dog rather then to the many rescue centers which are bursting at the seams - often with the very pure bred dogs these people are looking for. (not to mention all of the fabulous cross breeds looking for a loving home). Sad really. Just an observation - there is a place of course for REPUTABLE breeders but I just wish we had more awareness of the wonderful dogs languishing in our rescue centers.................
Is this a reminent of our celtic tiger days that eventually might peter out.....hoping so. Designer handbags. Designer dogs. :mad::mad:0 -
People who keep dogs just for breeding, make me sick. I help out at a local dog rescue group and two little Westies were saved from the pound by them last week. The wee male was partially sighted (blind in one eye and only some sight in the other) as his dry eye condition wasn't treated (a thing westies suffer from). The female by the state of her wee sagging tummy had been bred repeatedly:( Imagine putting a wee dog through labour over and over again..then take her babies off her, just to make money:mad::mad::mad::mad:.0
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buy from first man. But tell him you are going to have pup exam by vet and if there are any problems you will be returning pup to him for a complete refund Enjoy your new friend0
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pcLad please don't resurrect 2 year old threads. Some of these posters have closed their accounts since then.0
This discussion has been closed.
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