Ulster Bank - Yappy Customers!

Lollipops23

Sweenball wrote: »

I'm fortunate I have JUST enough cash to get by but I wont be running to the Ombudsman or ringing Joe Duffy.**** happens from time to time & it will be sorted in a week or two.

And what about people who are living hand to mouth right now? There's plenty who are like that, who may not be destitute, but have earmarked most of their wages before it gets paid.

I agree, I wouldn't have much to say on the subject if this had lasted a week max, but 3 weeks? It's going to be a month before this gets sorted. I can't imagine what would happen to people with mortgages/children etc.

Smcgie

My point is, without trying to sound like Bono or bob geldoff, there are people starving in the world and all people have to yap about in Ireland is that their bank has messed Up.

Prioritys are wrong, very wrong

Boombastic

Smcgie wrote: »

My point is, without trying to sound like Bono or bob geldoff, there are people starving in the world and all people have to yap about in Ireland is that their bank has messed Up.

Prioritys are wrong, very wrong

We'd feed them if we could get our money from UB

Lollipops23

Smcgie wrote: »

My point is, without trying to sound like Bono or bob geldoff, there are people starving in the world and all people have to yap about in Ireland is that their bank has messed Up.

Prioritys are wrong, very wrong

Why shouldn't people get the money they've worked hard to earn? If your boss decided not to pay you today, I'm sure you'd be up in arms.

It's all well and good to say people will get paid eventually, but they need it NOW. Food to buy, bills to pay etc.

Get off your high horse.

nice_very

its very easy to press a few buttons on a keyboard, upload a virus into the system and pass it off as a "glitch" to cover up whatever financial problems the institution has...

The King of Moo

Smcgie wrote: »

My point is, without trying to sound like Bono or bob geldoff, there are people starving in the world and all people have to yap about in Ireland is that their bank has messed Up.

Prioritys are wrong, very wrong

Just because there are worse problems in the world doesn't mean people can't complain about their own problems which do seriously affect their lives.

And this is not a minor problem: what about people who don't have access to cash and who have nothing in their bank accounts? They're struggling, and I wouldn't tell them "it could be worse, sure what about the starving children in Africa?"

puffishoes

nice_very wrote: »

its very easy to press a few buttons on a keyboard, upload a virus into the system and pass it off as a "glitch" to cover up whatever financial problems the institution has...

oh you cynic!

puffishoes

The King of Moo wrote: »

Just because there are worse problems in the world doesn't mean people can't complain about their own problems which do seriously affect their lives.

And this is not a minor problem: what about people who don't have access to cash and who have nothing in their bank accounts? They're struggling, and I wouldn't tell them "it could be worse, sure what about the starving children in Africa?"

#firstworldproblems4seriousproblems

I Heart Internet

Smcgie wrote: »

My point is, without trying to sound like Bono or bob geldoff, there are people starving in the world and all people have to yap about in Ireland is that their bank has messed Up.

Prioritys are wrong, very wrong

You sound like Bono or Bon Geldoff's slow protege.

What in the name of flange does a bank not operating effectively have to do with people starving? As if we weren't complaining about ulster bank we would have this global hunger solution thing knocked out by close of play today.

You're talking utter ****.

Boombastic

The King of Moo wrote: »

"it could be worse, sure what about the starving children in Africa?"

We could send our dinner in the post to them

Unavailable for Comment

Boombastic wrote: »

We could send our dinner in the post to them

Yeah as long as they send you a stamped, self addressed envelope first!

donegal_road

I worked in the IT dept of a business in Dublin 11 years ago. The business employed approx 250 staff, so it was sizable enough. The company's financial accounts were lost when a member of the IT staff formatted a PC without backing it up, there was no other backup copy of the accounts. I was in the server room one day when someone almost deleted a file containing all customer details, order numbers etc.
I accidentally discovered one day, that an excel spreadsheet containing customer credit card details, numbers, addresses, phone numbers, could be accessed by any workstation in the building as the folder wasn't password protected. People are 80% efficient.

puffishoes

donegal_road wrote: »

I worked in the IT dept of a business in Dublin 11 years ago. The business employed approx 250 staff, so it was sizable enough. The company's financial accounts were lost when a member of the IT staff formatted a PC without backing it up, there was no other backup copy of the accounts. I was in the server room one day when someone almost deleted a file containing all customer details, order numbers etc.
I accidentally discovered one day, that an excel spreadsheet containing customer credit card details, numbers, addresses, phone numbers, could be accessed by any workstation in the building as the folder wasn't password protected. People are 80% efficient.

Cool story bro.

Dyr

donegal_road wrote: »

I worked in the IT dept of a business in Dublin 11 years ago. The business employed approx 250 staff, so it was sizable enough. The company's financial accounts were lost when a member of the IT staff formatted a PC without backing it up, there was no other backup copy of the accounts. I was in the server room one day when someone almost deleted a file containing all customer details, order numbers etc.
I accidentally discovered one day, that an excel spreadsheet containing customer credit card details, numbers, addresses, phone numbers, could be accessed by any workstation in the building as the folder wasn't password protected. People are 80% efficient.

Even 11 years ago they should have been protecting by permissions rather than passwords? Don't seem legit to me brah

donegal_road

Bambi wrote: »

Even 11 years ago they should have been protecting by permissions rather than passwords? Don't seem legit to me brah

sorry, permissions is what I meant

BrianD3

Lollipops23 wrote:

And what about people who are living hand to mouth right now? There's plenty who are like that, who may not be destitute, but have earmarked most of their wages before it gets paid.

There are plenty of people out there who live salary cheque to salary cheque not because of bad luck or circumstances or a huge mortgage but because of very poor money management and splurging on crap that they don't need.

I could understand people being in trouble if the ATMs stopped working overnight but that is not what has happened here. Such is people's dependence on their salary/SW that one day after this mess started I heard some complaining that they didn't have money to buy food or put fuel in the car.

Maybe this UB debacle will make them think again about their lifestyle. It may turn out to be a positive thing for them. It could also be a positive for the country in general. I wonder how much less would the State be paying out in social welfare if people who earned good money during the boom had put some aside so that they could fund their own existence when times got tough instead of relying on (and passing the means test for) Jobseekers Allowance. It sickens me to hear of builders who boasted of earning 1500+ into their hand per week for years now eligible for JSA, did they never hear of saving, gobsh*tes.

starbelgrade

I cashed €4k worth of cheques in Ulster Bank today. No hassle at all, pleasant staff, barely even a queue & I don't even bank with them.

There was one grumpy fuck in front of me giving the teller a hard time though. Like it was her fault.

ejmaztec

Hanley wrote: »

If you posted that 3 weeks ago I might have agreed. At this point, it's bullsh*t. I'm glad I'm not a customer. Was giving serious consideration to opening a business account with them a while ago, certainly not now.

They've displayed a fundamental lack of untrustworthiness. Instead of manning up and giving a realistic timescale to resolution, they've employed a death by a thousand cuts strategy.

It's pathetically miserable customer service and I hope they suffer financially. At the very minimum compensation to the extent that they would charge their customers in interest, penalties, referral fees etc etc MUST be recommended and enforced by the central bank if there is any sense of justice to be gotten from this.

We'll probably end up throwing tax-payers' money at em if that happens.

wonski

Smcgie wrote: »

Is there anyone else out there that's sick to death of the whining of some Ulster bank customers? I have 4 accounts with them and I have the common sense to
know that a technical problem can happen to any business.

My accounts are all over the place, but I know they will put them right, I know that they haven't ran away with the money, I know it's not the frontline staffs fault, I know I will be compensated fully and maybe a freebie for the disruption and I don't bloody yap on and on about it an IT glitch or report it to the ombudsman etc etc!

This country is full of people waiting for the smallest of reasons to cry and the politicians make me sick by jumping on the bandwagon and bringing the CEOs into finance meeting to highlight bonuses - YEA like the bonus the bank man gets caused the IT glitch.

Where has the common sense gone in this country

I have a lot of a common sense, and am a reasonable man...
I know all you know, but let me know how your claims for charges etc worked out. Since you have 4 accounts with them, this could be a fun...

BTW I did not report it to Ombudsman, i do not yap about their IT anymore, I just want my money!
As for the CEO bonuses - no chance i would get one if i managed company i work for at this moment - i would be lucky if they let me drive a forklift, or pick the orders...
I know how AH works, so don't expect miracle, but some understanding for people like me - who work hard for free - would be nice...

Lollipops23

BrianD3 wrote: »

There are plenty of people out there who live salary cheque to salary cheque not because of bad luck or circumstances or a huge mortgage but because of very poor money management and splurging on crap that they don't need.

I could understand people being in trouble if the ATMs stopped working overnight but that is not what has happened here. Such is people's dependence on their salary/SW that one day after this mess started I heard some complaining that they didn't have money to buy food or put fuel in the car.

Maybe this UB debacle will make them think again about their lifestyle. It may turn out to be a positive thing for them. It could also be a positive for the country in general. I wonder how much less would the State be paying out in social welfare if people who earned good money during the boom had put some aside so that they could fund their own existence when times got tough instead of relying on (and passing the means test for) Jobseekers Allowance. It sickens me to hear of builders who boasted of earning 1500+ into their hand per week for years now eligible for JSA, did they never hear of saving, gobsh*tes.

It's not up to you how people spend their money- if they need it to buy groceries for the week or if they're going out on the lash- it's still THEIR money and they've earned it. You don't get to dictate how they should manage their money-the fact is, they were supposed to get paid on the Thursday/Friday and they didn't. And it's the bank's fault. So the bank should be blamed (or in this case, their parent company).

I am at a loss to see people slagging off those complaining about this mess. It must be so nice in those ivory towers of yours.

puffishoes

Lollipops23 wrote: »

It's not up to you how people spend their money- if they need it to buy groceries for the week or if they're going out on the lash- it's still THEIR money and they've earned it. You don't get to dictate how they should manage their money-the fact is, they were supposed to get paid on the Thursday/Friday and they didn't. And it's the bank's fault. So the bank should be blamed (or in this case, their parent company).

I am at a loss to see people slagging off those complaining about this mess. It must be so nice in those ivory towers of yours.

so you have people in ivory towers in jobs where no one ever makes a mistake, complaining about a group of people who made a mistake, complaining that their idiots for complaining about the people who made a mistake because everyone makes mistakes?

so sorry, I'm lost who's left in the tower?

prinz

Lollipops23 wrote: »

You don't get to dictate how they should manage their money-.

Some people need to learn how to manage their money. Depending on one account in one bank, with no cash on hand as a float is a bit silly tbh.

wonski

prinz wrote: »

Some people need to learn how to manage their money. Depending on one account in one bank, with no cash on hand as a float is a bit silly tbh.

Well, some people have no other money, apart from their salary going through their account every month. Bit silly allright, but I remember the time when companies started to force their employees into bank accounts...
I

upandcumming

Stiffler2 wrote: »

I'm not an Ulster customer because I'm not english but I can see why ppl are getting pissed off.

Are you ****ing joking me?

Lollipops23

puffishoes wrote: »

so you have people in ivory towers in jobs where no one ever makes a mistake, complaining about a group of people who made a mistake, complaining that their idiots for complaining about the people who made a mistake because everyone makes mistakes?

so sorry, I'm lost who's left in the tower?

sorry, this is more than an "uh-oh" on the job. We all make mistakes on the job. I'm annoyed at the lack of clear communication and humility shown on UB's part.

I'm also annoyed at the people who are so sanctimonious about those who don't have rainy day money on standby. Not everyone is in the position to have it. It's nobody's business as to why that is.

Smcgie

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Smcgie wrote: »

My point is, without trying to sound like Bono or bob geldoff, there are people starving in the world and all people have to yap about in Ireland is that their bank has messed Up.

Prioritys are wrong, very wrong

You sound like Bono or Bon Geldoff's slow protege.

What in the name of flange does a bank not operating effectively have to do with people starving? As if we weren't complaining about ulster bank we would have this global hunger solution thing knocked out by close of play today.

You're talking utter ****.

You made me LOL. People can get thier money just bring your payslip in an
they give it to you, like every other christian in Ireland had to do instead of yapping on and ringing Joe about it

up for anything

Smcgie wrote: »

like every other christian in Ireland

You're weird.

BrianD3

Lollipops23 wrote: »

It's not up to you how people spend their money- if they need it to buy groceries for the week or if they're going out on the lash- it's still THEIR money and they've earned it. You don't get to dictate how they should manage their money-the fact is, they were supposed to get paid on the Thursday/Friday and they didn't. And it's the bank's fault. So the bank should be blamed (or in this case, their parent company).

I will comment on how people manage their money as prudent individuals such as myself end up paying for these people in the long run. The difficulties many are having due to the Ulster Bank issue is a symptom of a much bigger problem. Spend, spend, spend and when they lose their job, reach retirement age, need nursing home care etc. they "have nothing" and others end up paying for it.

As for "going out on the lash" - anyone who does this on a regular basis and has nothing in reserve in their bank account as a result of it is a f*ckin idiot.

As I said this Ulster Bank problem might have the positive effect of changing people's attitudes. Plenty of dopes out there who need a wake up call.

Mint Sauce

A glitch OP!

A glitch is usally sorted out in a day or two OP. This is a major fcuk up, and I'm not even an Ulster Bank customer.

mikom

BrianD3 wrote: »

As for "going out on the lash" - anyone who does this on a regular basis and has nothing in reserve in their bank account as a result of it is a f*ckin idiot.

Even if they had it anything in reserve it wouldn't be much good to them.

Lollipops23

BrianD3 wrote: »

I will comment on how people manage their money as prudent individuals such as myself end up paying for these people in the long run. The difficulties many are having due to the Ulster Bank issue is a symptom of a much bigger problem. Spend, spend, spend and when they lose their job, reach retirement age, need nursing home care etc. they "have nothing" and others end up paying for it.

As for "going out on the lash" - anyone who does this on a regular basis and has nothing in reserve in their bank account as a result of it is a f*ckin idiot.

As I said this Ulster Bank problem might have the positive effect of changing people's attitudes. Plenty of dopes out there who need a wake up call.

I still think this attitude is incredibly patronising. I presume you've never been caught short the day or two before payday?

Incidently, I'm not one of those people with nothing in reserve- i do make sure i have savings. But in my previous job, where I made pittance, i simply didn't make enough to put money by each week.

Pantsface

My account is with UB & I have been caught up in the mess. Was due to be paid on the 22 June, got my money on Weds. Wasn't too badly affected. Have to say, the staff I was dealing with were brilliant. Felt very sorry for a girl, who was working behind the counter with an awful customer. These were not the cause of the problem, but they got some amount of crap thrown at them. If anyoe deserves compo its those kids, what a nightmare few weeks, god love them

Monife

While it is inexcusable how long this mess has been going on for, I think Ulster Bank are still one of the best to bank with for current accounts. No charges, open on Saturday's, instant online chat to a customer service rep and Visa Debit cards.

Also, with this mess going on, they extended their hours til 8pm weekdays in a lot of branches and opened on Saturday's and Sunday's. If the same thing happened in BOI or AIB, you would NEVER see them open on a weekend.

Also, all the b*tching about not having access to your money. If you go into a UB branch with your payslip (or proof you are entitled to a social welfare payment/pension) and a bank statement and ID, they will give you cash on the spot.

Pantsface

Monife wrote: »

While it is inexcusable how long this mess has been going on for, I think Ulster Bank are still one of the best to bank with for current accounts. No charges, open on Saturday's, instant online chat to a customer service rep and Visa Debit cards.

Also, with this mess going on, they extended their hours til 8pm weekdays in a lot of branches and opened on Saturday's and Sunday's. If the same thing happened in BOI or AIB, you would NEVER see them open on a weekend.

Also, all the b*tching about not having access to your money. If you go into a UB branch with your payslip (or proof you are entitled to a social welfare payment/pension) and a bank statement and ID, they will give you cash on the spot.[/QUOTE]

Yes, and they could'nt have been nicer.

Smcgie

Lollipops23 wrote: »

sorry, this is more than an "uh-oh" on the job. We all make mistakes on the job. I'm annoyed at the lack of clear communication and humility shown on UB's part.

I'm also annoyed at the people who are so sanctimonious about those who don't have rainy day money on standby. Not everyone is in the position to have it. It's nobody's business as to why that is.

It doesn't take much to annoy you then..

the_syco

Smcgie wrote: »

I have 4 accounts with them

The great thing about AIB: I got paid today :P

Hanley

One thing I'm actually warmed by is the understanding nature of people towards front line staff. Seems to be a far greater level of cop on amongst people than I thought.

Kurz

the_syco wrote: »

The great thing about AIB: I got paid today :P

That's not a great thing. It's the least you should expect from a bank. AIB are as crap as Ulsterbank.

Biggins

Monife wrote: »

While it is inexcusable how long this mess has been going on for, I think Ulster Bank are still one of the best to bank with for current accounts. No charges...

Not for much longer: http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/latest-news/end-of-free-banking-as-ulster-to-charge-for-account-3116133.html

Ulster Bank is to shortly announce the end of automatic entitlement to fee-free banking, with a new charging structure expected by the end of the summer, the Irish Independent has learnt.

Sorry for the bad news if you didn't know this.

Monife

Biggins wrote: »

Not for much longer: http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/latest-news/end-of-free-banking-as-ulster-to-charge-for-account-3116133.html



Sorry for the bad news if you didn't know this.

Yeah but are they really going to impose charges a couple of months after this fiasco? I think not, that would be suicidal from a business perspective. The only reason people will stay with them after this mess is because of their fee free banking and they would have to be retarded not to realise that.

hawkhead

Biggins wrote: »

Not for much longer: http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/latest-news/end-of-free-banking-as-ulster-to-charge-for-account-3116133.html



Sorry for the bad news if you didn't know this.

Timing is everything

OutsideLane

Pantsface wrote: »

Monife wrote: »

While it is inexcusable how long this mess has been going on for, I think Ulster Bank are still one of the best to bank with for current accounts. No charges, open on Saturday's, instant online chat to a customer service rep and Visa Debit cards.

Also, with this mess going on, they extended their hours til 8pm weekdays in a lot of branches and opened on Saturday's and Sunday's. If the same thing happened in BOI or AIB, you would NEVER see them open on a weekend.

Also, all the b*tching about not having access to your money. If you go into a UB branch with your payslip (or proof you are entitled to a social welfare payment/pension) and a bank statement and ID, they will give you cash on the spot.[/QUOTE]

Yes, and they could'nt have been nicer. - Really? Cup of tea there and would you like sugar?

Ulster bank at the top level are still in denial as to what the problem is (see below if you're interested).

This continuing fiasco is (& will...) continue as the CEO is in denial as to what the source of the problem is - we know about the upgrade to the CA7 scheduler and it's subsequent back-out a few days later. So they said that CA7 caused the issue (they threatened to sue CA, but as the top mgt have retreated from that now as they have started to begin to understand how their own systems are meant to operate). The bottom line now is that the batch process area does not now work/has been disabled and they are manually processing jobs - which is why some deposits, DDs, etc are now appearing. This is a very dangerous practice with any business (all inbuilt checks are bypassed), but especially for a bank. They have to be in breach of compliance on that one. I do know that some jobs have been run twice or in the incorrect order (e.g. locking accounts due to insufficient funds because other jobs were not run beforehand). It was a complex system, but they are now running jobs manually with manual only checking.

So CA7 isn't the issue, nor is data file corruption, so what was/is the issue? The issue is that while doing the back-out they didn't follow proper procedure and also destroyed what (as it turned out) insufficient backup of the batch processing files and libraries (not data, not sys SW btw). This backuot was run from George's Quay and Hyderbad; the real issue is that the people now charged with operating and supporting the batch processes are basically IT students based on the sub-continent and who know little of the overall application and batch job sequencing and interlinking. Those who used to support this complex job interdependence were made redundant a few years ago; that is the heart of the issue and any subsequent changes have now turned out to be non-compliant in regard to banking regulations here. But as we know our regulator isn't equipped to deal with rogue banking practices here........

My advice: If you're a UB customer - go to BoI or AIB and open an account - and get your DD's and salary pointing to your new A/C. If you're an IT guy looking for work (esp. if you know of batch operations, JCL, security procedures and have some experience of working in a complex batch environment, CA7 or banking shouldn't be necessary) then you should update your CV; no point in ringing 'em yet - the top guys don't yet understand how their systems were built and they're still looking for scapegoats, ironic when it was their decision to move batch processing operations and support (+ all related activities like security & backups) to India a few years ago that is the real issue.

(compare their system to a merc - they have a self-inflicted gearbox malfunction done during a routine service; you go in to say the car will not go faster than 10mph - they say they'll give you a free valet and not to worry bas they are doing everything; but if you go round to the servicing bay you'll see there are no mechanics........). Which is why I put the comment re. tea/coffee when every customer just wants the system fixed.


The reason NW and RBS are back is that they had sufficient backups to be able to restore their batch environment - they can thank their regulator and the fact that they retained some of their older staff for that one.

Madam_X

Who's to say they didn't genuinely think those time-scales were realistic?

I don't get the lack of trust thing either - nothing sinister was going on, and they're highly unlikely to **** up after this.

It is an awful disaster though.

Wacker The Attacker

When it all comes down to it, the real loser in all of this is Ulster Bank itself.

Customers will be inconvenienced temporarily but the brunt of the medium to long term damage resulting from this episode will be borne by the bank itself. It is a disaster in both financial and PR terms that they will take quite some time to recover from.

alphabeat

Smcgie wrote: »

Is there anyone else out there that's sick to death of the whining of some Ulster bank customers? I have 4 accounts with them and I have the common sense to
know that a technical problem can happen to any business.

you better close you precious accounts , cos its likely they may not fix it
and in any case , its likely UB are finished here out of this ,
they likely will not recover.

How's that common sense workin out for ya ?

Geri Male

OutsideLane wrote: »

Ulster bank at the top level are still in denial as to what the problem is (see below if you're interested).

This continuing fiasco is (& will...) continue as the CEO is in denial as to what the source of the problem is - we know about the upgrade to the CA7 scheduler and it's subsequent back-out a few days later. So they said that CA7 caused the issue (they threatened to sue CA, but as the top mgt have retreated from that now as they have started to begin to understand how their own systems are meant to operate). The bottom line now is that the batch process area does not now work/has been disabled and they are manually processing jobs - which is why some deposits, DDs, etc are now appearing. This is a very dangerous practice with any business (all inbuilt checks are bypassed), but especially for a bank. They have to be in breach of compliance on that one. I do know that some jobs have been run twice or in the incorrect order (e.g. locking accounts due to insufficient funds because other jobs were not run beforehand). It was a complex system, but they are now running jobs manually with manual only checking.

So CA7 isn't the issue, nor is data file corruption, so what was/is the issue? The issue is that while doing the back-out they didn't follow proper procedure and also destroyed what (as it turned out) insufficient backup of the batch processing files and libraries (not data, not sys SW btw). This backuot was run from George's Quay and Hyderbad; the real issue is that the people now charged with operating and supporting the batch processes are basically IT students based on the sub-continent and who know little of the overall application and batch job sequencing and interlinking. Those who used to support this complex job interdependence were made redundant a few years ago; that is the heart of the issue and any subsequent changes have now turned out to be non-compliant in regard to banking regulations here. But as we know our regulator isn't equipped to deal with rogue banking practices here........

My advice: If you're a UB customer - go to BoI or AIB and open an account - and get your DD's and salary pointing to your new A/C. If you're an IT guy looking for work (esp. if you know of batch operations, JCL, security procedures and have some experience of working in a complex batch environment, CA7 or banking shouldn't be necessary) then you should update your CV; no point in ringing 'em yet - the top guys don't yet understand how their systems were built and they're still looking for scapegoats, ironic when it was their decision to move batch processing operations and support (+ all related activities like security & backups) to India a few years ago that is the real issue.

(compare their system to a merc - they have a self-inflicted gearbox malfunction done during a routine service; you go in to say the car will not go faster than 10mph - they say they'll give you a free valet and not to worry bas they are doing everything; but if you go round to the servicing bay you'll see there are no mechanics........). Which is why I put the comment re. tea/coffee when every customer just wants the system fixed.


The reason NW and RBS are back is that they had sufficient backups to be able to restore their batch environment - they can thank their regulator and the fact that they retained some of their older staff for that one.

Hi - is that your view or is there a source?

Sounds very plausible anyway.