Authentic martial arts training!

iLost

I'm looking for authentic martial arts training!
Example....
Russian teaching Sambo, Japanese teaching Judo, Chinese teaching Wing-Chun, Brazilian teaching BJJ, etc.

Any recommendations?
I'm willing to travel anywhere in Ireland.

Thank you.

Michael O Leary

iLost wrote: »

I'm looking for authentic martial arts training!
Example....
Russian teaching Sambo, Japanese teaching Judo, Chinese teaching Wing-Chun, Brazilian teaching BJJ, etc.

Any recommendations?
I'm willing to travel anywhere in Ireland.

Thank you.

Hi iLost,

Traditionally Wing Chun/Ving Tsun in China was not promoted or taught to large groups of people but only to a handful at a time. Yip Man revolutionised this when he moved to Hong Kong.

While he was teaching in Hong Kong, Wing Chun/Ving Tsun was not taught to non-Chinese and only after his death did some of his Chinese students start to teach Westerners.

And then some of the western students now teach their own western students. At what point does something become less authentic?

The race of the teacher should not be a deciding factor in the same way that the race of the student should not matter.

Having said that, as far as I know, this is the only Chinese Wing Chun teacher that I know of in Ireland.
http://www.niwckfa.org/
But then he teaches non-Chinese students!!!

Regards,

Michael
www.wingtsun.ie

Dyr

What nationality are you? No use having an authentic Chinese instructor if you're just irish, that would'nt be very authentic at all

Stillweak

It sounds like the OP is looking for an interview not actual training.
Could be an interesting article.
There are a few brazilians teaching bjj in Dublin that I know of. A simple google search of Jorge Santos, Andre Ramos, Morcegao bjj and Tony Souza should lead you to them.
Think there's an Irish guy teaching hurling too.

iLost

@Bambi, I'm Irish.

Anyway....
I once attended a Kung-Fu class taught by an overweight middle aged Irish guy,
who told me to call him ''Sensei''
I politely informed him that since it's Kung-Fu he's teaching, the correct term for him would be ''Sifu''
He got angry and shouted ''no talking in my class''
owned

I also attended a Muay Thai class, taught by a self proclaimed Muay Thai blackbelt.
There are no blackbelts in Muay Thai, this guy was a con man!

Point being, i'm looking for authentic native teachers, not Irish cowboys.

slammer187

So you're saying if the instructor isn't from the country that the martial art originated in they're not very good or authentic?

So you're saying that you'll never be good or teach an authentic MA because you're irish?

da-bres

iLost wrote: »

@Bambi, I'm Irish.

Anyway....
I once attended a Kung-Fu class taught by an overweight middle aged Irish guy,
who told me to call him ''Sensei''
I politely informed him that since it's Kung-Fu he's teaching, the correct term for him would be ''Sifu''
He got angry and shouted ''no talking in my class''
owned

I also attended a Muay Thai class, taught by a self proclaimed Muay Thai blackbelt.
There are no blackbelts in Muay Thai, this guy was a con man!

Point being, i'm looking for authentic native teachers, not Irish cowboys.

This happens regardless of nationality, The best instructors in Ireland Are all Irish, People that have dedicated everything they have to get to a high skill level. e.g. Darragh O'Connail, Andy Ryan and John Kavanagh

At SBG Ireland we have no direct ties to any Brazilian Instructors in BJJ and look at our results.

Any way, authentic Brazilian Jiu jitsu is a farce the sport has evolved far beyond its roots.

Doug Cartel

Yeah, I'm going to echo that where a person is from is no guarantee they aren't a chancer. Just look for a good instructor, pay no attention to their nationality.

Niall Keane

Searching for the real deal and being prepared to travel for it is comendable. However your logic is flawed regarding race = authentic.

What you seem to be searching for is what in the Kung fu world is called "Zhen Chuan" or "true tranission"

Example:

In Tai Chi Chuan to most respected fighter / grandmaster of recent times was Cheng Tin Hung, his style (he called Wudang out of respect for the founder "Chang San Feng") became known as "Practical" Tai Chi Chuan, a term coined by hongkong journalists to highlight the difference between his ability to use and teach others to use the art effectively in full contact competition and self defence and most other styles that could not.

His lineage drives from a line of "fighters" as opposed to masters or families teaching the art for health purposes.

He had stated many times that his best student and the person who had learned most from him was "Dan Docherty" a Scott.

Our system has a much broader syllabus than most others, as it includes "inside the door" methods. These were reserved for desciples of the art, ie people who trained directly with the masters. Think about the difference between a guy doing MMA 2-3 evenings a week and a UFC fighter who trains twice a day. Who's going to have the goods?

I know of two Chinese gentlemen in Ireland who teach "tai Chi", neither have a fight record, and neither have produced any fighters. Their syllabus as indicated on their websites isn't 25% of what I learned and from video footage that which they "know" is practiced at a very compliant, basic low level, it is clear that they don't understand the martial purposes of such drills and methods. They clearly have misunderstood a lot. They focus on "softness" but neglect the body mechanics that allow one to be soft yet protected and secure. So their drills look "flat" without a "guard". I'm sure that they believe that the drill is one dimensional and all about developing a single body skill, but true martial arts do not isolate to the extent of "practicing martial errors" . I see some beginners in my classes make these errors and it makes me believe that such "masters" that also display such have clearly only ever reached and been exposed to low level skills. Considering too that their syllabus is that of public tai chi and not of an "inside the door" desciple I have to conclude that they don't have "it" when it comes to the art of "Tai Chi Chuan"

An old Chinese expression states:
"when the student is ready the master will come"

Take what you will from my advice, for you, I hope you don't waste your time.

Dyr

iLost wrote: »

@Bambi, I'm Irish.

that's a problem, most authentic native teachers don't want to teach irish cowboy students. They never get the point

yomchi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCyJRXvPNRo

Zen65

iLost wrote: »

Point being, i'm looking for authentic native teachers, not Irish cowboys.

I have met a few Japanese karate instructors who were "cowboys" in their own way, so I fundamentally disagree with your thinking.

However, I know only of one karate club in Ireland that has a Japanese instructor, and he's not there all year round. The Glenview Shotokan Karate Club in Wicklow has as its chief instructor Sensei Aragane (7th Dan), but Danny and Dave do most of the teaching through the year. It's actually a very good club and they set very high standards. They certainly are not cowboys as the instructors run the club because of their love of the art and their friendship with Sensei Aragane.

Funnily enough, Sensei Aragane has actually modified the way he teaches to be more "European" and he seems to favour that approach, as the traditional Japanese approach involved a more monkey-see-monkey-do with no questions asked, whereas European instructors are more likely to explain to you the principles of what you're doing. I have trained with many top Japanese instructors (as high as 10th Dan, though in fairness I find the Dan grades are no indication of how good an instructor is) and I have found them to be excellent, but top European instructors are every bit as good.

There are lots of poor Irish karate instructors, but there are many excellent ones too. I can't convince you to change your strategy, but if you do find what you want, you may be disappointed.


Z

SDTimeout

Doesn't bother me who I train under as long as I'm getting good training.

I train under a black belt Brazilian named Sebastiao Torres in Dundalk and Newry, he also coaches in Belfast. So if your interested in that drop me a PM and I will let you know class times.

Michael O Leary

Hi ilost,

You are actually right that there are many Irish "cowboy" instructors out there. However there are also many Irish instructors who teach Chinese, Brazilian, Russian, etc martial arts who are committed to what they do. The hard part is filtering them so that you find genuine instructors.

It is a large jump from one experience of a Kung-Fu instructor calling himself Sensei to conclude that he is a cowboy. It is an even larger jump to conclude that based on this example, all or most Irish Kung-Fu instructors are cowboys. These examples are only "indicators" which should prompt you to look a little deeper at what they do but not to draw immediate conclusions.

Jumping to conclusions based on indicators can lead to wasted opportunities and a lot of wasted time, money and effort whether it is choosing a martial art or post secondary education. It is something we can all be guilty of but also something that we can all try to avoid.

Regards,

Michael
www.wingtsun.ie

da mo

Perhaps you could try and find a good Bataireacht club? From the few videos I've seen, this authentic Irish MA seems well worth checking out.

pearsquasher

So..If a Japanese organization, for example, gives a teaching licence to somebody, irrespective of race, and tells them to teach.. then you want to ignore their advice and go directly to another teacher in that art simply based on race? This is contradictory thinking to seek guidance but then cherry pick what you are advised.


Also..do you think movement is based on genetics or skill acquired through training?

Peetrik

da mo wrote: »

Perhaps you could try and find a good Bataireacht club? From the few videos I've seen, this authentic Irish MA seems well worth checking out.

Are you serious? From the few videos I've seen Bataireacht looks like the biggest most obvious con/money spinner since the 'death punch'.

Anyway we don't have any Canadians teaching here for it to be from its actual authentic origin

Dyr

Peetrik wrote: »

Are you serious? From the few videos I've seen Bataireacht looks like the biggest most obvious con/money spinner since the 'death punch'.

Anyway we don't have any Canadians teaching here for it to be from its actual authentic origin

begorrah, tis the most authentic ting I've seen in all me natural to be sure, to be sure and divil the man who sez udderwise.

If I found a class I'd pay for it in magic beans and pixie dust, both of which are just as authentic and so should suffice :pac:

da mo

Peetrik wrote: »

Are you serious? From the few videos I've seen Bataireacht looks like the biggest most obvious con/money spinner since the 'death punch'.

Anyway we don't have any Canadians teaching here for it to be from its actual authentic origin

Not really serious Peetrik, I know too little about it to be serious. Wether it's a con would depend on the teacher, but maybe there are no good teachers in Bataireacht, if that's what you're suggesting.

By your second comment do you mean that the origins are Canadian? Then I am (quite possibly) misguided by Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bataireacht

If you mean that the origins are better preserved in a foreign country than in the original one, I think you hit the nail right on the head for this thread.

Peetrik

da mo wrote: »

By your second comment do you mean that the origins are Canadian? Then I am (quite possibly) misguided by Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bataireacht

I ment that, despite the wiki entry and the Irish sounding name, in my opinion, its an 'art' made up by some Canadian guy so that he could sell DVDs and online belts to Americans who like to consider themselves Irish.

To any "real" American/Irish people who might stumble across this post after a Bataireacht google search, don't stop sending the money

da mo

Peetrik wrote: »

I ment that, despite the wiki entry and the Irish sounding name, in my opinion, its an 'art' made up by some Canadian guy so that he could sell DVDs and online belts to Americans who like to consider themselves Irish.

To any "real" American/Irish people who might stumble across this post after a Bataireacht google search, don't stop sending the money

LOL
Yes, I can imagine so. Plenty of that going on on the web.

crosstrainer1

iLost wrote: »

I'm looking for authentic martial arts training!
Example....
Russian teaching Sambo, Japanese teaching Judo, Chinese teaching Wing-Chun, Brazilian teaching BJJ, etc.

Any recommendations?
I'm willing to travel anywhere in Ireland.

Thank you.

we the ICTA JKD Association uk and Ireland teach in co down we teack the inosanto jkd system if your up for long distance training let me know. if you want to learn bjj then straight blast gym in dublin is your best.:)