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More cuts in health spending
Comments
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Dannyboy83 wrote: »I still can't get over this one to be honest.
They're effectively killing people.
How do they live with that? I wouldn't be able to sleep at night.
When I started off my career in IT, I was working on a helpdesk.
It was manned 24/7 and nobody was at risk of dying...
The Unions have fcuking ruined this country.
It's also weak governance, management and organisational creation..
I doubt Intel (for example) would allow staff or contractors to decide to allow a factory lines down because they would not move required chemicals from a delivery area. It wouldnt happen a second time..0 -
It sometimes seems to me that the best way to fix the Health System would be to set up an entirely new Health Service with proper management structures, procedures and systems and a tough stance regarding unions (i.e. we'll listen to your concerns and take them on board where possible but you'll do as your bloody well told or you're sacked) and transfer responsibility for each hospital to it one at a time, winding down the HSE with compulsory redundancies as you go.
Obviously this would cost a fortune in the medium term and would no doubt result in a war with the HSE unions.0 -
Or on second thoughts: do we just create a new health service entirely and run it in competition with the HSE?0
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Or on second thoughts: do we just create a new health service entirely and run it in competition with the HSE?
Open it up to competition, i.e. subcontract it out. We already have a scheme in place to do just that (was used to reduce some of the waiting times)
I'd be very surprised if some of the private treatment facilities haven't at least run the numbers for providing such a service. There is at least one privately-run A&E in Dublin.
M.0 -
I'm always amazed when I hear these issues .. how could anyone justify this kind of practice. If people are aware of these practices why aren't they shouting from the rooftops to remove specific madcap practices. Instead we hear the sweeping generalisations .. evetyone is overpaid ... everyone is lazy and incompetent. It seems to me even from the contributions in this thread alone that much could be done to improve everyones lot by the removal of sharp and uncousciousable practices that exit in certain parts/within parts of the public sector. Its high time this was targeted and pressure brought to bear on those who resist this change. It simply not defensible! .. CPA or no CPA!
All these continuing unresolved issues are down to poor leadership and management of the Health Service, starting with the Minister for Health, Dr James Reilly.
He’s the guy with his name on the jersey to deliver (as per Article 28 of the Constitution and a myriad of other legislation) – so, not much point in previous posters suggestions that he be replaced by an expert committee or anyone else outside either the Dail or Seanad, as this would require Constitutional change, referendum, etc.
Let’s look at his track record as minister so far. Instead of making a start on tackling unresolved issues, his priority seem to be universal health insurance for all, “Reillycare” – great in theory (look at “Obamacare” in the USA) – and, guess what, in the 16 months since taking office, he has finally succeeded in setting up a implementation group to move the matter forward (http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0414/imo-conference-hears-of-medical-card-delays.html).
As for the overspend of +€200 million on the health budget so far, he is betting on delivering on price reductions for generic drugs (negotiations stalled right now) to get back on budget – otherwise we will be facing yet more cuts in frontline services (http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/state-hitting-targets-but-troika-warns-on-jobs-and-spending-3167358.html).
Not a great performance record to date, given how good he was at pointing out the faults of the previous minister, while in opposition, and now he’s embroiled in a controversy about his personal finances!
So far, he has the Taoiseach’s support – but for how long more?
To my mind he is running out of time to get his act together to make noticeable progress on the many system and process failures in the system – i.e. to deliver on the basics rather than prioritising the high minded “health care for all” system set out in the programme for government.0 -
Dannyboy83 wrote: »
When I started off my career in IT, I was working on a helpdesk.
It was manned 24/7 and nobody was at risk of dying....
Well there is a difference between sitting on your hole all day in front of a computer and running round a busy hospital looking after sick people.
IT people dont recognise the difference between what they do and actual work.
The reason your helpdesk was manned 24/7 was because somebody is making mney out of the business..nurses dont get paid by the amount of patients they attend to.Dannyboy83 wrote: »The Unions have fcuking ruined this country.
No...people like you have ruined the country..
"I wanna work in IT and if i cant well then i'm going on the dole..and cut everybody else's wages to pay for it".
Try working in a hospital for a few weeks..see how easy it is compared to sitting in front of a computer all day.0 -
Or on second thoughts: do we just create a new health service entirely and run it in competition with the HSE?
Good idea..run it as a private enterprise whereby if you cant pay you dont get treated.
No medical card holders either,Cash only.
Do the same with education...end the free system thats costing so much money and make it available only to people who pay.
You could pay the new nurses minimum wage and hire them from the dole queues without checking thier CV's.
I'm sure the Private Sector "brains" behind the idea would run it into the ground through greed just like they always do when there's a chance to make some money... to say nothing of the legendary poor quality of Private Sector service.
A wonderful idea..keep em coming.:rolleyes:0 -
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As I pointed out when starting this thread, my wife is seriously ill in hospital, and her condition is incurable. In my dealings with the (excellent) hospital staff I came across another example of HSE lunacy that could so easily be corrected without upsetting staff, unions, or (Heaven forbid) management.
six weeks ago the doctors told me that they could do no more for my wife, and would prefer to discharge her. They were concerned that in her weakened condition you was at risk from hospital-related infections. However, they said, they couldn't do that until they had prepared a care plan for her care at home with me. That care plan would be issued to the district nurse, who would then put in place the facilities and resources that my wife would need. Then the question "Do you have a medical card?"
The answer to that was no. Up until I retired at the end of last year, my income was too high to entitle me to such a card, but having private health insurance I had never seen the need for one anyway. I asked why the card was of any importance since, if push came to shove, I would simply pay for the services needed. The answer was that one had to have a medical card to avail of those services, and whether or not one could afford to pay for them was irrelevant.
As a result I then had to apply for a card -- in my name as my wife was clearly incapable of applying for herself in the way that the application forms require. Then the long wait for the application to be processed, with my wife remaining in a hospital bed where she should not be, and the hospital doing nothing about a care plan until I have the card.
The alternative would have been for me to go it alone and buy all of the equipment needed for her care, and hire nursing staff from a local specialist provider. Unfortunately that private provider charges €38 per hour per nurse, and I am not quite that wealthy. Even so, when I said I would be prepared to do that if the hospital would tell me what equipment I needed to buy, the doctor made it very plain that if I went down that route then (a) they couldn't issue a plan to me, and (b) I would have to voluntarily discharge her, in which case the HSE would effectively disown us.
The solution to this in an outfit that is in deep financial trouble? Well, surely, if someone is ineligible for a medical card but cannot afford long-term private health care that private health insurance will not pay for, then why cannot that person avail of the public services but be expected to make a means-tested contribution in the same way that nursing home care is established?
I wonder how much more of this sort of thing goes on in the shambles of Irish public services, and I wonder why in the name of God it seems so difficult to deal with.0 -
The reason your helpdesk was manned 24/7 was because somebody is making mney out of the business..nurses dont get paid by the amount of patients they attend to.
Possibly the most infantile reasoning I've ever seen on this forum.
Do nurses get paid a salary?
You obviously lack the required intelligence to work in IT, which probably explains your frustration/bitterness.No...people like you have ruined the country..
"I wanna work in IT and if i cant well then i'm going on the dole..and cut everybody else's wages to pay for it".
LOL:rolleyes:
I'm not, and never have been unemployed.
Am I off the hook for the country ruining? :pac:Try working in a hospital for a few weeks..see how easy it is compared to sitting in front of a computer all day.
Oh, so you work in a hospital:eek:.........I never would have guessed!0 -
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why cannot that person avail of the public services but be expected to make a means-tested contribution in the same way that nursing home care is established?
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Because there'd be murder if people were asked to pay towards a service like that..the medical card holders kicked up stink because they were being asked to pay a pittance towards the price of a prescription.
People demand free health and education services and they dont seem to think the staff who perform the duties are worthy of being paid.0 -
People demand free health and education services
Free.......?
and they dont seem to think the staff who perform the duties are worthy of being paid.
I don't think anyone has even mentioned pay in this thread.
The topic of this thread has been wasteful spending, lousy management, etc.
Try at least read the thread before you go off on one. :rolleyes:0 -
Dannyboy83 wrote: »I still can't get over this one to be honest.
They're effectively killing people.
How do they live with that? I wouldn't be able to sleep at night.
When I started off my career in IT, I was working on a helpdesk.
It was manned 24/7 and nobody was at risk of dying...
The Unions have fcuking ruined this country.
I've been banned, warned on this board for my lambasting PS workers and their unions. If every PS worker had the balls to stand up to them they would be hailed heros.
My brother in law works in the tax office and was about to cahnge his light bulb in his office, but he was reprimanded that his wasn't his job and they would get an electrician in to change it!!!! He is not the most adept at manual work but even he said he could change a lightbulb.0 -
No...people like you have ruined the country..
"I wanna work in IT and if i cant well then i'm going on the dole..and cut everybody else's wages to pay for it".
Try working in a hospital for a few weeks..see how easy it is compared to sitting in front of a computer all day.
So its the taxpayers' fault, eh?
So presumably, you've been involved in cost saving projects at your place of work then, as agreed under the CPA?
Care to enlighten us as to what's been going on to make improvements?
M.0 -
I've been banned, warned on this board for my lambasting PS workers and their unions. If every PS worker had the balls to stand up to them they would be hailed heros.
My brother in law works in the tax office and was about to cahnge his light bulb in his office, but he was reprimanded that his wasn't his job and they would get an electrician in to change it!!!! He is not the most adept at manual work but even he said he could change a lightbulb.
To be fair, such Union demarcation isn't restricted to the public sector, I have come across it many times in the private sector as well.
Difference is, if you have a cost over-run in the private sector, you go bust.
M.0 -
MOD NOTE:
There have been a lot of complaints in this forum about public-sector bashing, including by some people posting in this thread. Yet here we are, mired in a thread involving serious private sector bashing.
People, get some cop-on. Per the charter:
If your posts consists of little more than a statement that some group of people or other are bad people...think long and hard before pressing "submit", because we'll be treating that as trolling from here on in.0 -
My brother in law works in the tax office and was about to cahnge his light bulb in his office, but he was reprimanded that his wasn't his job and they would get an electrician in to change it!!!! He is not the most adept at manual work but even he said he could change a lightbulb.
Shopper sues Pennys.
Woman sues over neck pain after 40mins at salon basin
So what would happen If your brother fell of the table , chair or ladder and perhaps cut himself in the process then decided to sue ? Why should any manager of an office take that risk and then have to explain himself to his superiors?0 -
The Government is to take immediate steps to reign in a €280m overspend in the health budget.
Taoiseach Enda Kenny is to chair a meeting of the Cabinet's Health Sub-committee today where Ministers will consider what action must be taken.
The Troika has ordered the Government to cut health spending after reviewing the public finances yesterday.
Speaking at Croke Park today, the Taoiseach said that every effort will be made to minimise the effect of health cuts on frontline services.
However, he said that immediate steps would have to be taken to curb spending.
"Traditionally what happened in most departments, particularily in the Depatment of Health, was that you waited until the back end of the year and a supplementary estimate was introduced," he said.
"There will be no supplementary estimate introduced in any department this year, so that means that the corrective measures have to be put in place now."
How do you go about immediately cutting 280 million Euro in expenditure, while not being able to cut pay as per the Croke Park Agreement, (unless you cut temporary staff on contracts that are outside the remit of that agreement)?
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/government-to-take-immediate-action-to-cut-health-budget-558981.html0 -
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This has got to stop, but I don't have a clue how to stop it other than kicking Dr. Reilly out of office for incompetence and, hopefully, taking Enda and the rest of his pigs snouts with him...................
HSE needs to be overhauled, it needs to be ran as a business, by that I mean it needs to provide the required service to its customer (your good lady for example) while being profitable. The substantial amount of under performing dead wood needs to be raked out and replaced with folks with proven credentials, not necessarily with experience in the health service.
Some of the most profitable businesses in the country are ran by people with little knowledge of the actual business they're in at shop floor level but they know how to run a business.
Currently it's being ran as a required service and there are too many people on the gravy train and the folks suffering are the patients, those waiting to be patients and the doctors and nurses etc on the shop floor.0 -
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Read my post again. Did I say the other organisation should be private?Good idea..run it as a private enterprise whereby if you cant pay you dont get treated.
No medical card holders either,Cash only.
Do the same with education...end the free system thats costing so much money and make it available only to people who pay.
You could pay the new nurses minimum wage and hire them from the dole queues without checking thier CV's.
I'm sure the Private Sector "brains" behind the idea would run it into the ground through greed just like they always do when there's a chance to make some money... to say nothing of the legendary poor quality of Private Sector service.
A wonderful idea..keep em coming.:rolleyes:
I believe in universal healthcare. My argument is that the current system is so rotten, it's not worth trying to repair: we simply build a new one with sensible management structures, a culture of keeping costs down and an intolerance for the PS Union BS that has crippled the HSE.0 -
Celticfire wrote: »So what would happen If your brother fell of the table , chair or ladder and perhaps cut himself in the process then decided to sue ?
And yet there are 200,000 small businesses in the country and 2 million households that successfully carry out this operation with little incident.
I know of more people that have been injured from not paying attention while opening doors (in the private sector, despite H&S training). That does not justify a squadron of trained doormen to monopolise the operation.
Essentially employees have to be trusted to assess a problem, between them (and a manager if present) decide whether solving the issue is within their capabilities. Changing a fluorescent tube above their desk is very likely solvable by one or more people using only life experience. If history suggests that you call a bystander just in case of a fall that should be sufficient. One sentence in health and safety training.
If it's at a height in the lobby, then certainly leave it to the professional.
But if every non-standard task is outsourced to another department at huge delay and expense then we'll see those areas fail to do their primary work.
Here's a huge difference between our opinions. Running up an overtime bill of hundreds of euro for such a task.Why should any manager of an office take that risk and then have to explain himself to his superiors?
A high proportion of people are gobsmacked by people blithely running up these avoidable charges and not linking them with the cutbacks. The suspicion is that this is only done because the majority of the workers in the organisation consider the politician at the top as the disposable loudmouth mudguard thrown away every 5 years or less, while wanting everything just to stay unchanged. And that the money should just come in regardless of excess.
Because change is uncomfortable and the outcome is uncertain.
Similar to what we've seen from the corrupt private 'defence' contractors in the UK and the states. In private sector and public sector worldwide there are some organisations that when they think they have a stranglehold on the public purse, people at all levels bleed it dry for tenuous reasoning similar to your quote above.
Which is why the 'treat it as a business' stuff is too simplified to be useful. That's what they claimed was the purpose of the HSE and creation of CEO + board structure.
If we swap Enda Kenny with Angela Merkel, we're not going to develop a German work style. Knowing us, we'd act in the opposite direction to any outsider exhortations in that direction. The HSE will not change unless the majority of the staff are convinced between themselves to do so. Because of the split and usually opposing 'management' between department and unions, I don't know how this is achievable.
Because regular pay is around 40% of the budget. We want to see what the budget would look like if some of the overtime and material wastage created at low levels and protected by the unions were removed. And this measure is being done to prevent pay cuts, believe it or not.How do you go about immediately cutting 280 million Euro in expenditure, while not being able to cut pay as per the Croke Park Agreement, (unless you cut temporary staff on contracts that are outside the remit of that agreement)?0 -
And yet there are 200,000 small businesses in the country and 2 million households that successfully carry out this operation with little incident.
Indeed.... I.m sure that you are aware of the 2007 working at height regulations
(which exempts Work carried out by private individuals on their own homes where this is not for the purpose of business or trade).
Just because certain small businesses choose to not follow the law doesn't make it right.
But they have been trained and I'm willing to bet there is a signature somewhere on file to say that they understood that training and were well enough trained to open said door.I know of more people that have been injured from not paying attention while opening doors (in the private sector, despite H&S training). That does not justify a squadron of trained doormen to monopolise the operation.Essentially employees have to be trusted to assess a problem, between them (and a manager if present) decide whether solving the issue is within their capabilities. Changing a fluorescent tube above their desk is very likely solvable by one or more people using only life experience. If history suggests that you call a bystander just in case of a fall that should be sufficient. One sentence in health and safety training.
Please show me that sentence in either the 2005 H&S regs or the 2007 working at height regs.If it's at a height in the lobby, then certainly leave it to the professional.
There is no minimum height for the regs to apply.
I didn't see anything about overtime or a bill for hunderds of euro. Her brother works in the tax office which I'm sure means 9-5 not 3am, I would assume that there is someone or a company employed to perform routine maintenance and properly trained to do so.Here's a huge difference between our opinions. Running up an overtime bill of hundreds of euro for such a task.
HUH?A high proportion of people are gobsmacked by people blithely running up these avoidable charges and not linking them with the cutbacks. The suspicion is that this is only done because the majority of the workers in the organisation consider the politician at the top as the disposable loudmouth mudguard thrown away every 5 years or less, while wanting everything just to stay unchanged. And that the money should just come in regardless of excess.
Because change is uncomfortable and the outcome is uncertain.
Similar to what we've seen from the corrupt private 'defence' contractors in the UK and the states. In private sector and public sector worldwide there are some organisations that when they think they have a stranglehold on the public purse, people at all levels bleed it dry for tenuous reasoning similar to your quote above.
Which is why the 'treat it as a business' stuff is too simplified to be useful. That's what they claimed was the purpose of the HSE and creation of CEO + board structure.
If we swap Enda Kenny with Angela Merkel, we're not going to develop a German work style. Knowing us, we'd act in the opposite direction to any outsider exhortations in that direction. The HSE will not change unless the majority of the staff are convinced between themselves to do so. Because of the split and usually opposing 'management' between department and unions, I don't know how this is achievable.Because regular pay is around 40% of the budget. We want to see what the budget would look like if some of the overtime and material wastage created at low levels and protected by the unions were removed. And this measure is being done to prevent pay cuts, believe it or not.
I guess the unions only serve the public sector....0 -
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OR you could go cap in hand to the Govt via Public Sector organisations like Enterprise Ireland...or the IDA.
Public Sector money is the only thing keeping a lot of "private sector" businesses afloat.
Again, you’re narrowing down the debate about health service cuts into a spurious public v private sector argument.
But just for the record, Enterprise Ireland focus their very limited investment funding on indigenous High Potential Start Ups (HPSUs) – and demand a share in the business in return. No problem there as they are acting as Venture Capitalists and a lot of new ventures (even those with high potential) go to the wall – so there are wins as well as losses.
The IDA, on the other hand, is focused on attracting Foreign Direct Investment.
These state investments are part of government policy to create jobs and increase GDP and have nothing to do with people going cap in hand to the public sector. Nor do the IDA or EI throw money around like snuff at a wake to every private sector company that crosses their doors.
Private firms seeking IDA or EI investment must produce viable provable business plans and run their businesses efficiently and effectively – this not a case of charity or propping up unsustainable costs caused by the restrictive practices and inefficiencies mentioned by earlier posters to this thread.
What we all want to see is a health service that is more focused on meeting the requirements of Irish citizens within an affordable budget – and it is Minister Reilly’s job to deliver on that reasonable demand from the Irish taxpayer.
He seemed to start well back in March last year but has lost his way on delivering on these very basic demands of late.0 -
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golfwallah wrote: »What we all want to see is a health service that is more focused on meeting the requirements of Irish citizens within an affordable budget – and it is Minister Reilly’s job to deliver on that reasonable demand from the Irish taxpayer.
He seemed to start well back in March last year but has lost his way on delivering on these very basic demands of late.
Unfortunately, I can see no way that he (or anyone else appointed to the post) can possibly achieve it within the existing culture/structure/practices that exist.
I agree with the what, but can't see any way how
M.0 -
Unfortunately, I can see no way that he (or anyone else appointed to the post) can possibly achieve it within the existing culture/structure/practices that exist.
I agree with the what, but can't see any way how
M.
There are lots of options for delivering a better service for less money and the person in the best position to figure this out is the minister. He is the one person with all relevant information available to him to help in this regard.
That being said, there can’t be many more “easy” options (such as renegotiating prices for generic drugs that has currently stalled). When I say easy options, I mean options that don’t have wide political consequences and will please everyone. Like everything in life, choices have pros and cons.
For example, much better use could be made of data and management information systems to provide more cost effective patient care, such as the use of electronic records by the US Veterans Health Administration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veterans_Health_Administration#Use_of_Electronic_Records).
The benefits of Electronic Health Records carry downside risks around confidentiality of patient records but this is something that can be managed with a properly set up systems and processes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_information_management#Electronic_health_records).
There are also issues around existing unaffordable pay and conditions covered by the Croke Park Agreement (although, this would be slow, given the mandate given to Labour in the last election and FG’s choice to go into coalition with them). However, pay and conditions account for such a high proportion of the budget that tackling these issues is unavoidable (presumably, this matter is already subject to debate at cabinet).
Quite apart from pay and conditions, he should organise projects to work with unions and other stakeholders on eliminating all the process inefficiencies (such as those mentioned by previous posters on this thread).
The above are just a few examples. I believe a start should be made on creating more informed debate and awareness of these issues – e.g. along the lines of the Manufacturing Development Forum set up by Minister Richard Bruton, to report back within a limited timescale. The minister has access to plenty of expert advice on how best this might be handled and we would all feel a bit better if we could see some sign of progress in bringing about long needed positive change in the public health service.0 -
In the Sunday Times (on page 2 - sorry I've no link) the NHS is trying to cut doctors pay by 5% in cost cutting measure. It has not been passed yet but we need to follow in their steps. Pay, aministrative charges need to be cut. My son is waiting to see someone in Crumlin over a year now. he is also waiting to to an ENT doctor for over two years now in Waterford Regional. Obviously not life threatening but all the same its diabolical.
Heres the link to doctors pay cut in NHS http://news.sky.com/story/960382/doctors-should-accept-pay-cut-or-be-sacked0 -
About 20-30 people at each clinic. All had a 2pm appointment time. Everyone. Took about 2-3 hours to get through everyone. So instead of spacing it out over the time, say giving everyone an appointment 5-10 minutes apart, everyone has to sit and wait.
HSE thinking - everyone gets seen as fast as possible, this is the best way to do it. Specialists not waiting for people to come in.
That doesn't appear to be a HSE issue . Seems to be a local management decision .
The hospital I attended gave out separate appointment times .0 -
I believe in universal healthcare. My argument is that the current system is so rotten, it's not worth trying to repair: we simply build a new one with sensible management structures, a culture of keeping costs down and an intolerance for the PS Union BS that has crippled the HSE.
I appreciate where you’re coming from and the frustration of dealing with apparently intransigent unions. However, I do not believe the revolutionary approach of throwing out the existing organisation / starting afresh without unions is the way to go. I would see this, not as a panacea, but as a recipe for Industrial Relations and customer service chaos.
I would prefer, rather, to go for the evolutionary approach, using business transformation techniques to make the organisation function in a way that is more suited for purpose and aligned to customer requirements. I’d also see the pace of evolution being speeded up considerably and being communicated more effectively to the public.
That said, there is some evidence of progress so far and next priorities in the 1st Report on the Programme for Government (2011 – 2012):
• Progress to date includes:
o “Work on legislation for the extension of free GP care to patients on long term illness scheme, the first phase of the introduction of universal free access to GP services” (page 25).
o “Government has established a UHI Implementation Group and a Universal Primary Care Group to play a central role in the introduction of UHI”. The UHI group and the Department have been tasked with drafting a White Paper by end 2012 (page 26).
• Priorities for next year include (Page 7):
o “Building on recent reforms to the HSE by setting out a clear road-map for the introduction of Universal Health Insurance and a fairer, more efficient healthcare system for all”.
o “Protection of front-line services by modernising public sector work practices and abolishing or amalgamating Agencies”. Maybe, we'll see evidence of shifting non-performing managers, through implementation of the “Abramovich Style of Management”?0 -
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Essentially employees have to be trusted to assess a problem, between them (and a manager if present) decide whether solving the issue is within their capabilities. Changing a fluorescent tube above their desk is very likely solvable by one or more people using only life experience. If history suggests that you call a bystander just in case of a fall that should be sufficient. One sentence in health and safety training.
In a large organisation, specialisation is beneficial and in my view having a general maintenance person(s) on site to deal with ongoing maintenance issue is far better than having lads (lassies?) jumping up on their desks to change fluorescents lights. Would every room/office has a stock of these things? Would evey office have a key to the supplies room? Could result in serious fast stock turnover! No the problem is not with specialisation but with restrictive practices - these need to be dealt with so specialisation doesn't cost an arm and a leg. I remember a couple of years back a dispute at I think the Mater Hospital where a painter downed brushes becasue he wasn't allowed to paint a ward overnight on overtime. Apparently he had always painted at night when there was no patients in the wards:). Such rubbish and an example of another restrictive practive - this juy was employed 9 to 5 and yet only painted at night on overtime. Give me a break!!0 -
I remember a couple of years back a dispute at I think the Mater Hospital where a painter downed brushes becasue he wasn't allowed to paint a ward overnight on overtime. Apparently he had always painted at night when there was no patients in the wards:). Such rubbish and an example of another restrictive practive - this juy was employed 9 to 5 and yet only painted at night on overtime. Give me a break!!
A painter employed 9-5?
Employed by the HSE was he?
A public sector painter,yeah?
Could he see better at night maybe?
Why would there be no patients "in the wards" at night? Were they all sent home?
What did this guy do between 9-5 before he actually started work,nothing?
How this patently untrue garbage is allowed on a supposedly serious forum is beyond me..an absolute disgrace.0 -
A painter employed 9-5?
Employed by the HSE was he ? .. that's my understanding
A public sector painter,yeah? ... that's my understanding
Could he see better at night maybe? That wasn't covered in the story
Why would there be no patients "in the wards" at night? Were they all sent home? I can only assume that before a ward is scheduled for painting, it is emptied of patients presumably becasue is easier and safer to do do
What did this guy do between 9-5 before he actually started work,nothing? That's a bit harsh but if you insist
How this patently untrue garbage is allowed on a supposedly serious forum is beyond me..an absolute disgrace.
Well given that this guy was interviewed on the 9 O'clock news on a picket outside the hospital I presumed they was some facts to the story. Obviously I was wrong ....0 -
A Green Party councillor has come up with a novel way to reduce costs in the health service - cut the spend on Viagra!
Let's hope the minister takes note.:D
Any more ideas?0 -
I am genuinely saddened by your troubles OP but I really fell your anger is mis-directed. I feel you should be directing your anger towards the shambles of an organisation that is the HSE itself. It should be directed towards the consultants who earn double what they'd earn in Germany (where healthcare is MUCH better), towards the army of admin staff who just make up the numbers and who were never made redundant when the health boards were amalgamated (we were told the HSE would bring huge savings remember), but above all towards a succession of spineless IRISH governments elected by IRISH people who have never once been able to tackle the mess that is Irish healthcare. It is not the fault of a few bond holders. It's our fault.
You’re spot on about poor management of the HSE. Today’s Sunday Independent (click link for details) advises that an external “highly confidential” report prepared for the Minister on the HSE concludes (among other things) that:
• it is “an organisation racked by "inertia", with "unrealistic" plans for cost cuts which could place patients' lives at risk”.
• It has “a chronic shortage of expertise in some key management and financial control positions”.
• "It was estimated during meetings that only 10 per cent of staff involved in financial management and control are qualified -- in the UK, the equivalent figure is 25 per cent."
The report also contains recommendations such as “making the finance director accountable for financial management performance”.
Nothing very surprising really, except that it’s taken a budget shortfall of €280m and almost 17 months in office to come up with these glaringly obvious conclusions on a health service that’s costing a staggering €13.7 billion per annum to run.
But better late than never, I suppose. Let’s hope it doesn’t take the same length of time again to fix the problem!0 -
golfwallah wrote: »The report also contains recommendations such as “making the finance director accountable for financial management performance”.
What? A finance director responsible for finance? Holy Mary and Joseph, whatever next? Next thing someone will be suggesting that the CEO is responsible for the running of the undertaking or that the health minister is responsible for national health care. We can't go down that road, since it leads to anarchy. :eek:0 -
golfwallah wrote: »You’re spot on about poor management of the HSE. Today’s Sunday Independent (click link for details) advises that an external “highly confidential” report prepared for the Minister on the HSE concludes
Also spot on about about 'putting lives at risk' according to the report!
It makes me sad to think people in the HSE are so far gone that they put their own pocket before the lives of the people they are responsible for.:(0 -
What? A finance director responsible for finance? Holy Mary and Joseph, whatever next? Next thing someone will be suggesting that the CEO is responsible for the running of the undertaking or that the health minister is responsible for national health care. We can't go down that road, since it leads to anarchy. :eek:
Fair comment and, I agree, that a person with the title of “Finance Director” in the vast majority of organisations – big and small – would have the power “to control the poke”.
After all, isn’t that what financial control is all about?
“Of course” would be the expected reply from the vast majority of people. But a quick glance at the HSE website shows this is not so for the HSE. They are far too grand to allow unsophisticated types like “bean counters” have any real authority ...... best that they stick to the mundane stuff like financial reporting / advice and ensuring no one robs the petty cash. Ah no, leave the guys in the upper echelons with the power to do run things their way, without anyone at director level constantly haggling in their ears about boring stuff like “we can’t afford this” or “can you come up with a cheaper alternative for that”, etc.
The fact of the matter is that resources are limited, whether you are an individual an organisation or a government. And when times get tight, financial control becomes even more important. It is the responsibility of everyone in the organisation from the top down and needs a person with a strong mandate, i.e. financial controller / director (whatever you want to call the person in that role), to instill a culture of robust financial control.
However, a brief look through the HSE Annual Report for 2011 (a glossy publication full of vague high blown management speak) – gives the impression of an organisation focused more on form over substance. For example, how does this extract grab you from the “Introduction by the CEO” (page 10): “As resources continue to reduce ....... greater transparency in the performance management and reporting of costs and the quantum of services delivered is required”. I'd rather see "a little less talk and a little more action", TBH.
All that being said, we are now facing yet another health service re-organisation (programme for government provides for disbandment and replacement of the HSE).
This is just more like “moving deckchairs on the Titanic” rather than ensuring senior people have roles with real authority and accountability, rather than just the appearance of it, as seem the case with the HSE at the moment.0 -
My OH is a department manager in a regional hospital and she is preparing to throw in the towel and move back to a clinical only role.
The level of unwillingness to make decisions and inability of general management is staggering. If a manager doesn't play ball they are sidelined into equal pay positions rather than out on their ass. They have no fewer than three previous general managers in offices and there is no idea what they are actually working on.
Her department has 0% absence, changed hours to cover 8-8 and eliminated all but essential agency staff. Yet other departments who have moved in nothing get preferential treatment because they are connected.
So I just want to make the point that there are many severely frustrated hard working managers and staff who are ashamed at the carry on in the HSE and it is unfair to tar all with the same brush.0 -
Surprised this has nt been made official yet but I suppose it doesn't effect many people due to the small amount of new recruits at present. I got word yesterday that "due to current financial restraints within the HSE" current overspend 2012 that all new posts are frozen indefinitely as of Fri 20th July 2012.
Most of these post were issued over the last few months as emergency posts to fill gaps left after the retirements this spring.0 -
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My OH is a department manager in a regional hospital and she is preparing to throw in the towel and move back to a clinical only role.
The level of unwillingness to make decisions and inability of general management is staggering. If a manager doesn't play ball they are sidelined into equal pay positions rather than out on their ass. They have no fewer than three previous general managers in offices and there is no idea what they are actually working on.
Her department has 0% absence, changed hours to cover 8-8 and eliminated all but essential agency staff. Yet other departments who have moved in nothing get preferential treatment because they are connected.
So I just want to make the point that there are many severely frustrated hard working managers and staff who are ashamed at the carry on in the HSE and it is unfair to tar all with the same brush.
So what has your OH done about it? Has this been raised to senior management level? tabled for union level discussion? What was the feedback, and what has been done with that feedback..
The $1m question for me is.. would your other half (and colleagues) cross picket lines to perform their duties in the event that the unions called a strike if the inefficient managers/staff were "addressed"?
If they won't then harsh as it may seem.. they are supporting that waste and deserve to be tarred with the same brush (to a degree). It is their union(s) afterall, that have delayed much of the desperately required changes...0 -
My OH is a department manager in a regional hospital and she is preparing to throw in the towel and move back to a clinical only role.
The level of unwillingness to make decisions and inability of general management is staggering. If a manager doesn't play ball they are sidelined into equal pay positions rather than out on their ass. They have no fewer than three previous general managers in offices and there is no idea what they are actually working on.
Her department has 0% absence, changed hours to cover 8-8 and eliminated all but essential agency staff. Yet other departments who have moved in nothing get preferential treatment because they are connected.
So I just want to make the point that there are many severely frustrated hard working managers and staff who are ashamed at the carry on in the HSE and it is unfair to tar all with the same brush.So what has your OH done about it? Has this been raised to senior management level? tabled for union level discussion? What was the feedback, and what has been done with that feedback..
The $1m question for me is.. would your other half (and colleagues) cross picket lines to perform their duties in the event that the unions called a strike if the inefficient managers/staff were "addressed"?
If they won't then harsh as it may seem.. they are supporting that waste and deserve to be tarred with the same brush (to a degree). It is their union(s) afterall, that have delayed much of the desperately required changes...
These two posts are perfect illustrations of the frustration caused to staff in an organisation with an over-bureaucratic culture, where all decisions have to come from the top. Managers who don’t toe the line are sidelined or labelled as poor performers. Some of them may be but without a positive culture that constantly encourages people to give of their best and supports them with the resources to do the job (e.g. with information, training, etc.), it’s impossible to meet objectives in a way that’s fair to staff and customers (the patients).
People need to work in a just and fair environment without having to constantly cover their asses and do stupid things just because the guys in HQ say so. If management don’t answer this need, people will look for it elsewhere - to the unions. In my experience, unions fill a void created by bad management.
Top management are the people who create the culture of an organisation – ask Sir Terry Leahy, the recently retired CEO of Tesco – heard him being interviewed by Pat Kenny on RTE radio recently (interestingly, his father was Irish). Quote from “This is Money” website (click link for full article):
“One of the biggest challenges I faced after becoming Tesco’s chief executive in 1997 was how to help motivate hundreds of thousands of people to do their best. Above all, I wanted to avoid morale being crushed by the juggernaut of bureaucracy.
I’d already seen the dangers for myself. People who work in a company wedded to rules and regulations feel trapped. Increasingly, they don’t really know how they’re doing or what difference they make — even whether anyone would notice if they weren’t there.
They don’t trust other departments. Insecurity, bordering on paranoia, sets in, which prevents people showing initiative or doing the right thing.
So how do you avoid all this? How do you encourage people to think constructively and stop stabbing each other in the back?
I knew the success of Tesco couldn’t just depend on people issuing orders from headquarters. We had to put more trust in our teams across the country — and later the world — to do what they thought best”.0 -
nursextreme wrote: »Surprised this has nt been made official yet but I suppose it doesn't effect many people due to the small amount of new recruits at present. I got word yesterday that "due to current financial restraints within the HSE" current overspend 2012 that all new posts are frozen indefinitely as of Fri 20th July 2012.
Most of these post were issued over the last few months as emergency posts to fill gaps left after the retirements this spring.
I was one of nineteen emergency medical technicians who received Job offers for the national ambulance service on the 4th of July. We got that same email on Tuesday, we were due to have Medicals in the next two weeks! What a shambles the HSE is!!0 -
nursextreme wrote: »Surprised this has nt been made official yet but I suppose it doesn't effect many people due to the small amount of new recruits at present. I got word yesterday that "due to current financial restraints within the HSE" current overspend 2012 that all new posts are frozen indefinitely as of Fri 20th July 2012.
Most of these post were issued over the last few months as emergency posts to fill gaps left after the retirements this spring.
I was one of nineteen emergency medical technicians who received Job offers for the national ambulance service on the 4th of July. We got that same email on Tuesday, we were due to have Medicals in the next two weeks! What a shambles the HSE is!!0 -
So what has your OH done about it? Has this been raised to senior management level? tabled for union level discussion? What was the feedback, and what has been done with that feedback..
The $1m question for me is.. would your other half (and colleagues) cross picket lines to perform their duties in the event that the unions called a strike if the inefficient managers/staff were "addressed"?
If they won't then harsh as it may seem.. they are supporting that waste and deserve to be tarred with the same brush (to a degree). It is their union(s) afterall, that have delayed much of the desperately required changes...
Great.
So your two suggestions are;
1 talk to management about their inability to manage and expect something to happen.
2 strike, ie use patient welfare and health as a pawn to apply pressure to the government and top level management of the HSE. An if you don't think that hospital staff striking doesn't risk patient health then you are deluded.
Any successful organisation is lead and managed from the top down. People who think an organisation can be managed bottom up are usually out looking for more union subs to fuel the union gravy train further.0 -
Great.
So your two suggestions are;
1 talk to management about their inability to manage and expect something to happen.
2 strike, ie use patient welfare and health as a pawn to apply pressure to the government and top level management of the HSE. An if you don't think that hospital staff striking doesn't risk patient health then you are deluded.
Any successful organisation is lead and managed from the top down. People who think an organisation can be managed bottom up are usually out looking for more union subs to fuel the union gravy train further.
No.. I asked questions.. Did you even read my post?
What has your OH done about the situation? They are a departmental manager, they are a member of the union (assumption).. and they have access to the senior management through their organsation. So what have they done?
Secondly I asked.. if their union called a strike because inefficient management were removed.. would they cross the picket line and support the removal action, or would they refuse to cross and effectively endorse the continued employment of ineffective management they complain about? Becuase I have seen nothing from unions or HSE management (like your OH) staff requesting (or demanding) the removal of these types.. in fact the opposite, most attempts at remedying situations like this have led to the threats (or implementation) of strike action...0 -
No.. I asked questions.. Did you even read my post?
What has your OH done about the situation? They are a departmental manager, they are a member of the union (assumption).. and they have access to the senior management through their organsation. So what have they done?
Secondly I asked.. if their union called a strike because inefficient management were removed.. would they cross the picket line and support the removal action, or would they refuse to cross and effectively endorse the continued employment of ineffective management they complain about? Becuase I have seen nothing from unions or HSE management (like your OH) staff requesting (or demanding) the removal of these types.. in fact the opposite, most attempts at remedying situations like this have led to the threats (or implementation) of strike action...
Right.
Yes the issue has been highlighted but of course nothing comes back and nothing changes. As for the union question. My OH has no faith in union action and personally I believe she is right. I feel that the unions are a self serving organisation who only look to secure their own power and positions rather than the pretence they give off that they have some greater social interest at heart. Personally I feel sorry for anyone on strike as they have been duped into thinking it will get them somewhere and particularly in the health services strike is a terrible insult to patients as they are being used as pawns, with their health being thrown up on the pile of chips as a gamble.0 -
Right.
Yes the issue has been highlighted but of course nothing comes back and nothing changes. As for the union question. My OH has no faith in union action and personally I believe she is right. I feel that the unions are a self serving organisation who only look to secure their own power and positions rather than the pretence they give off that they have some greater social interest at heart. Personally I feel sorry for anyone on strike as they have been duped into thinking it will get them somewhere and particularly in the health services strike is a terrible insult to patients as they are being used as pawns, with their health being thrown up on the pile of chips as a gamble.
I don't disagee with your OH's opinions on unions..
But are they and their colleagues still paying union subs and willing to strike if called on by the union?.. Becuase that there.. is whats causing the vast amount of issues that your OH is experiencing.. Continually blaming just senior management is a cop out.. HSE staff (union members) are the ones who are causing their own issues and refuse to allow meaningful change to take place..0 -
MOD NOTE:
Some of these comments are getting a bit personal. Let's dial it down, please.0 -
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I don't disagee with your OH's opinions on unions..
But are they and their colleagues still paying union subs and willing to strike if called on by the union?.. Becuase that there.. is whats causing the vast amount of issues that your OH is experiencing.. Continually blaming just senior management is a cop out.. HSE staff (union members) are the ones who are causing their own issues and refuse to allow meaningful change to take place..
It's much clearer now.
So your opinion is that the current problems are as a result of health care professionals not being militant enough and not blindly following union direction. Yet another person blaming the front line staff for the problems in the HSE, it's not a problem that management aren't managing, the problem is that front line staff aren't making them manage.
And so the government department of health and all those down to front line staff are then absolved because front line staff are letting them mismanage things.0
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