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Are post offices/credit unions obliged to take coins?

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  • 07-07-2012 10:17pm
    #1
    Scioch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭


    Went into the post office yesterday to lodge money into mt bank account. I had some coins in bags. Just 1/2 euros. Yer one said no problem with those but they wont accept anything smaller. Asked in the credit union and the woman said the same.

    Can they refuse to accept my lodgement because its in coin form ?


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    #2
    dublin daz
    Registered Users Posts: 480 ✭✭dublin daz


    LordSmeg wrote: »
    Went into the post office yesterday to lodge money into mt bank account. I had some coins in bags. Just 1/2 euros. Yer one said no problem with those but they wont accept anything smaller. Asked in the credit union and the woman said the same.

    Can they refuse to accept my lodgement because its in coin form ?

    Depends on how many coins you had. They are not obliged to accept more than 50 coins of any/mixed denomination per transaction.


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    #3
    Scioch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭Scioch


    dublin daz wrote: »
    Depends on how many coins you had. They are not obliged to accept more than 50 coins of any/mixed denomination per transaction.

    Is it the same for paying bills ? Kinda odd that they can refuse to accept payment because of the denomination of the money being given.


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    #4
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,435 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    LordSmeg wrote: »
    Is it the same for paying bills ? Kinda odd that they can refuse to accept payment because of the denomination of the money being given.

    It's to protect traders and banks from nuisance customers trying to pay a bill with a mountain of coins. Notes are legal tender in any denomination but there is a limit to the number of coins someone has to accept.


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    #5
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,518 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    Only the Central Bank accepts everything. Anyone else can impose limits on the amount of coins they accept.


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    #6
    Scioch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭Scioch


    Do banks charge for depositing change ? Or do they only charge over a certain amount ? Whats the best way for me to get rid of my change ?


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    #7
    Terrontress
    Registered Users Posts: 3,900 ✭✭✭Terrontress


    They don't have to accept anything. They could refuse to take anything from you at all if they don't want your custom.

    The only time an entity is forced to deal with you is where a debt exists and then they are obliged to accept legal tender so if you bring them €2 in 1c coins they can refuse it and ask you to pay by a different method.


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    #8
    Scioch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭Scioch


    Terrontress wrote: »
    They don't have to accept anything. They could refuse to take anything from you at all if they don't want your custom.

    The only time an entity is forced to deal with you is where a debt exists and then they are obliged to accept legal tender so if you bring them €2 in 1c coins they can refuse it and ask you to pay by a different method.

    A bill is a debt and the post office are the means by which it is collected. So how can they refuse to accept payment in legal tender ?


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    #9
    Tails142
    Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭Tails142


    I lodged about €900 in coins into my account recently in a bank of ireland branch, probably about 60 coin bags in all, they didn't have a problem with it, I did it over two trips and the first time I went was on a friday and the cashier said they normally didn't take coins on a friday because they were busier but they took the coins from me anyway and said they would count and lodge them on the monday. Second time was just a normal day and they took them again no problem.

    My tip is get a digital scales and weigh the bags to make sure they are all the same weight before taking them in, I caught a few mistakes I had made when doing this so I saved some hastle down the bank. Also there is no charge or fee for doing this.

    Also to the op, were your coins properly bagged? Like all types separated and the correct amount of each coin in each bag, I thought any bank/post office would take them like that as they just have to throw them on the scales, not as if they have to count them up


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    #10
    Scioch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭Scioch


    coylemj wrote: »
    It's to protect traders and banks from nuisance customers trying to pay a bill with a mountain of coins. Notes are legal tender in any denomination but there is a limit to the number of coins someone has to accept.

    Just on that paying in coins does not make you a nuisance. Coins are legal tender and hold the same value as notes given the right amount. Coins exist to be traded so trading them isnt being a nuisance.

    I understand a company not wanting to incur extra costs by dealing with large amounts of coins but how can that be enforced without limiting the value of the coins ? 100e of 1cents wouldnt be valued at 100euro. So how can 1cent be created with the value of 1cent ?


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    #11
    Terrontress
    Registered Users Posts: 3,900 ✭✭✭Terrontress


    LordSmeg wrote: »
    Terrontress wrote: »
    They don't have to accept anything. They could refuse to take anything from you at all if they don't want your custom.

    The only time an entity is forced to deal with you is where a debt exists and then they are obliged to accept legal tender so if you bring them €2 in 1c coins they can refuse it and ask you to pay by a different method.

    A bill is a debt and the post office are the means by which it is collected. So how can they refuse to accept payment in legal tender ?

    If you owe a debt to the post office then they'd be obliged to accept legal tender from you, but over fifty coins is not legal tender.

    If you are using the post office's facilities to pay someone else then they are not obliged to process the bill for you.

    If the local post office were to catch someone stealing from their premises they would be well within their rights to refuse all future custom from that person.


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    #12
    Scioch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭Scioch


    Tails142 wrote: »
    I lodged about €900 in coins into my account recently in a bank of ireland branch, probably about 60 coin bags in all, they didn't have a problem with it, I did it over two trips and the first time I went was on a friday and the cashier said they normally didn't take coins on a friday because they were busier but they took the coins from me anyway and said they would count and lodge them on the monday. Second time was just a normal day and they took them again no problem.

    My tip is get a digital scales and weigh the bags to make sure they are all the same weight before taking them in, I caught a few mistakes I had made when doing this so I saved some hastle down the bank. Also there is no charge or fee for doing this.

    Also to the op, were your coins properly bagged? Like all types separated and the correct amount of each coin in each bag, I thought any bank/post office would take them like that as they just have to throw them on the scales, not as if they have to count them up


    Did they charge you ?

    Yes mine were properly bagged and separated of 1/2's which they had no problem with but she said they wouldnt accept smaller coins because they didnt use them much. In other words the change was of no use to them as they didnt want to bother changing it so they were refusing to accept it.


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    #13
    Scioch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭Scioch


    Terrontress wrote: »
    If you owe a debt to the post office then they'd be obliged to accept legal tender from you, but over fifty coins is not legal tender.

    How it is not legal tender ? Its 51 individual coins that are legal tender that have the same value as a 50 euro note and one coin. I dont see how it can change from legal tender to not legal tender just because its harder to process.
    If you are using the post office's facilities to pay someone else then they are not obliged to process the bill for you.

    They are though, they would be contracted by the company to deal with payments wouldnt they ? They are not doing me a favor they are providing a service for a company. So again I dont see how a companies bill is completely different to their bill when they have already agreed to deal with it.
    If the local post office were to catch someone stealing from their premises they would be well within their rights to refuse all future custom from that person.

    I dont see what that has to do with anything. I am doing nothing to warrant being refused custom. What is being refused is legal tender.


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    #14
    Raladic
    Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭Raladic


    LordSmeg wrote: »
    How it is not legal tender ? Its 51 individual coins that are legal tender that have the same value as a 50 euro note and one coin. I dont see how it can change from legal tender to not legal tender just because its harder to process.

    No one except for the Central Bank or person designated by the Minister has to accept more than 50 coins.
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1998/en/act/pub/0038/sec0010.html#sec10

    It is still legal tender, it is just that you can refuse to accept it and ask for different means of payment.


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    #15
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,518 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    Legal tender is payment offered in consideration of a debt. It does not necessarily refer to the coins and notes in common circulation. Cheques and credit cards can also constitute legal tender.

    Wikipedia - Legal Tender


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    #16
    Scioch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭Scioch


    I see, so they are not obliged to accept payment of over 50 coins. Whether or not you are paying a debt owed to them ? Can I take from that that they are obliged to accept coins in amounts less than 50 ? Or does that only apply to debt and they can still refuse to accept them if they dont want them ?

    Do banks charge for handling them even if your lodging into your account or do they only charge if your changing them ?


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    #17
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,435 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    dudara wrote: »
    Legal tender is payment offered in consideration of a debt. It does not necessarily refer to the coins and notes in common circulation. Cheques and credit cards can also constitute legal tender.

    Wikipedia - Legal Tender

    Cheques and credit cards are not legal tender because they can be refused. The term 'legal tender' as used in this country refers to a form of payment which someone is obliged to accept when it is offered in payment for a debt. The fact that someone might at their discretion accept a different form of payment does not make it legal tender.

    Before we adopted the Euro, copper coins were only legal tender up to 20p, the 5p and 10p coins were legal tender up to an aggregate of £5 and the 50p coins were legal tender up to £10.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1969/en/act/pub/0023/sec0008.html#sec8

    If I owe someone €1,000 and I offer to pay him in €5 notes, he must accept the offer because notes are legal tender in any denomination or quantity. If I owe someone €1 and I offer to pay him in one cent coins, he can refuse because a bundle of more than 50 coins is not legal tender.

    From the Wikipedia article you linked to above....

    personal cheques, credit cards, debit cards, and similar non-cash methods of payment are not usually legal tender


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    #18
    Raladic
    Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭Raladic


    LordSmeg wrote: »
    I see, so they are not obliged to accept payment of over 50 coins. Whether or not you are paying a debt owed to them ? Can I take from that that they are obliged to accept coins in amounts less than 50 ? Or does that only apply to debt and they can still refuse to accept them if they dont want them ?
    It depends, if it's above 50 coins they can just refuse it regardless of if a contract was already established or not.
    If it's below 50 coins then it depends on if a contract was established already and you are showing a legal form of payment (such as 40 coins) then they have to accept it. If the contract wasn't formed yet then they can just refuse to take your business.
    Do banks charge for handling them even if your lodging into your account or do they only charge if your changing them ?
    That will depend on the bank, easierst thing will be to go to your branch and ask.


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    #19
    P. Breathnach
    Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    dudara wrote: »
    Legal tender is payment offered in consideration of a debt.
    No. For example, if I owe somebody here in Ireland an amount of €50, I might offer Swiss Francs. My creditor can refuse. If, however, I offer to settle in euros, my creditor cannot refuse (well, they can if they like, but they cannot then proceed against me for the debt, because I would have made an effort to pay it that is legally-recognised as being sufficient). Legal tender is that which must be accepted in settlement of a debt.
    It does not necessarily refer to the coins and notes in common circulation.
    True. It depends on what the law prescribes. In NI, for example, banknotes issued by local banks are widely used and accepted, but do not constitute legal tender; a fussy creditor might insist on "proper" Sterling.
    Cheques and credit cards can also constitute legal tender.
    No, because they do not satisfy the must be accepted criterion.


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