All is not well in Tuam

bagels

Check out the group Restore our Palace Road on Facebook.
1800 people or thereabouts joined in 48 hours.

"This group has been set up with the aim of retaining the public right of way from Bishop Street down to the Palace bridge in Tuam. The group will seek the restoration of the Palace road so as safe passage can once again be guaranteed for school children and the general public when attempting to visit the Palace grounds and surrounding amenities.
Galway Co.Council will vote next month on whether to "extinguish the public right of way over this ground" so we are asking you the people of Tuam to contact/lobby our local councillors with a clear instruction that you wish them to vote "NO" to extinguishing the public right of way and to re-instate the public access roadway to our Palace Grounds."

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/548026_3506637704254_480933502_n.jpg

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/522015_3505613638653_902870405_n.jpg

It appears Mr Joe O'Toole of Supervalu has pulled a fast one on the people of Tuam and its hinterland by taking possession of the public right of way in the photos above and building a car park on it.
Apparently he didn't have planning permission either.

Looks like he has a fight on his hands now though.

Fair play to the local communities for standing up for their rights.

gammygils

Sorry. But I'm a little confused.

Has this not already happened?

Mars Bar

High profile people are backing the group too.

bagels

gammygils wrote: »

Sorry. But I'm a little confused.

Has this not already happened?

Yes, Mr O'Toole has ploughed ahead and done the damage but he had no planning permission to do so.
Also, the ownership of the property is disputed, Mr O'Toole claiming it as his own while the public believe it to be theirs, gifted to the town by the Church.

There is a campaign to force him to undo the damage and respect the rights of the people.

ScumLord

I'm not really sure what the problem is? I can understand if he didn't have planning permission that's one thing but I don't see what the inconvenience is. People can still freely walk through the car park, there are no obstacles stopping them from walking through, and cars still have access via the new road.

confuseddotcom

ScumLord wrote: »

People can still freely walk through the car park.

Me thinks above emboldened is the most part of the inconvenience caused. Permitted right-of-way road or not (now offering fancy Car-park,) - try lumping in fitting in the Car-park into Bagels' nice pictures of the walk down and see how it looks!

bagels

ScumLord wrote: »

I'm not really sure what the problem is? I can understand if he didn't have planning permission that's one thing but I don't see what the inconvenience is. People can still freely walk through the car park, there are no obstacles stopping them from walking through, and cars still have access via the new road.

I respect your opinion but disagree with it.
Assuming you perused the facebook group page 'Restore our Palace Road' you will now be aware that:

1. Mr O'Toole got planning permission to build a huge development on his land which would create jobs in the town.

2. Unknown to the townsfolk and people in neighbouring parishes, Galway County Council gifted him ownership of the Palace Road (a public right of way) and a County Council owned revenue-creating car park to facilitate his big development.

3. Mr O'Toole then decided not to build the shopping centre, nursing homes, hotels, boulevard, etc.

4. Without abiding to the Planning Laws he stealthily cut down the trees on the Palace Road, bulldozed the site and turned it into a car park for his business, thereby taking possession of it.

5. He installed gates and bollards to prevent people using "his" car park as a Right Of Way to access the Palace Grounds park and its public facilities.

6. He refuses to discuss the matter with the Town's elected representatives, stating that he's only a grocer and telling them to consult his Advisers.

I could say a lot more but you probably know it all already.

The group formed to protest against his despicable behaviour now numbers more than 2000.

Would you like to join us?

Mr Keek

Never mind the right of way, that's only a small loss compared to the loss of a beautiful passage way.

Historical walls, mature trees and the character of the palace grounds have all been completely destroyed.

The Park/Palace grounds which was practically a town center amenity has been cut off from the town. That car park is not safe for an adult to walk around, I've had people not looking where they are going nearly run into me, the layout is very poor too. Imagine a child trying to get to the park.

Its a complete disgrace and I don't know what our town councillors were doing when all this was going ahead. Surely it is their job to keep abreast of all developments in the town and they didn't express any concerns or opposition to my knowledge nor can I recall any mention of this in the Tuam Herald. If planning permission was being breached, as mentioned in other posts why wasn't this acted on? If a town council doesn't have these powers, surely it would be their job to raise these concerns with the county council and planning authorities? .... They seem to be getting involved now but Its too late, the damage is done and it'll never be the same again.....it's completely disgusting.

A plan for the national children's hospital was refused because it didn't blend in with the Dublin city sky line a few months ago. Yet that greedy, wannabe 'saviour of Tuam' goomie can go and destroy a huge chunk of the town for the sake of a car park :mad::eek:

Since this whole thing was complete I have refused to step foot in his store. My family, girl friend and her family feel the same and also refuse to give him any of their money. I would encourage anyone who feels the same to do the same....After all, the money WE spend in his store paid for this. Who knows what he'll do if WE give him anymore of our money.

bagels

Tuam Town Council doesn't have any say in the matter because they have no authority in planning matters.
The responsibility lies with Galway County Council who failed to inform the public and the Town Council.
The first we knew of it was when we came across Mr O'Tooles people cutting down the trees.
It was all done behind our backs.

Mr Keek

bagels wrote: »

Tuam Town Council doesn't have any say in the matter because they have no authority in planning matters.
The responsibility lies with Galway County Council who failed to inform the public and the Town.

And can you tell me why the town council cannot pursue the matter with the Galway County Council......Aren't Town Councillors supposed to be representatives of Tuam? Can they not pick up the phone, write a letter or complain an behalf of the people of Tuam to The Galway County Council or planning authorities? Isn't it a town councillors job to actually represent the people of Tuam.

bagels wrote: »

The first we knew of it was when we came across Mr O'Tooles people cutting down the trees.

Nope, Sorry, I don't buy that, surely it is the job of the Town Council to know what it going on in Tuam. Are you telling me tht the Tuam Town council honestly had no idea about a large development, and made no effort to get more info about it once ye became aware of the development. Is it not a town councilors jobs to go and find out this information on behalf for the people of Tuam, and as pointed above, persue the matter with the relative authorities on behalf of the people of Tuam, in a why that represents the people?

bagels wrote: »

It was all done behind our backs.

:rolleyes:

If Tuam town council are not capable of turning around and having a look at things, and referring any concerns onto the relevant authorities, then what would the point of having a town council be?

A development was planned in Athenry many years ago, Athenry at the time did not have a town council, I'm not sure it they even have one now. My point however, is they did have a local Heritage Group/Council, and when they observed the plans, they logged complaints to County councils, The National Heritage Council etc, and the whole development was changed. Can town town council not do something similar? How can a local interest/Heritage group have more power than an elected Town Council?


On a positive side, I'm really glad that they are behind things now, and fair play to you for hilighting the issue.

You say 'we' when you talk about town council, so I assume you are a town councillor. Can you tell me what is going to happen? Will ye be doing anything else or will liking a Facebook page be it? Will ye be sending Facebook screen shots to Galway County Council?

rubberdiddies

Not from Tuam but know the area well.
Two things need to happen here:

1. An enquiry in to why this person was 'gifted' all that land
2. A complete boycott of the shop concerned, but this needs to have the entire town come together to make this happen

ScumLord

confuseddotcom wrote: »

Me thinks above emboldened is the most part of the inconvenience caused.

For walking between the road outside Supervalue to the park behind it's not a major inconvenience. There are no obstructions, only one road to cross. Simply from a transport point of view it's no worse and it doesn't stop anyone from doing what they always did.

bagels wrote: »

I respect your opinion but disagree with it.
Assuming you perused the facebook group page 'Restore our Palace Road' you will now be aware that:

No I'm not following the facebook panic page.

1. Mr O'Toole got planning permission to build a huge development on his land which would create jobs in the town.

And it did create jobs I know people that worked on the job.

2. Unknown to the townsfolk and people in neighbouring parishes, Galway County Council gifted him ownership of the Palace Road (a public right of way) and a County Council owned revenue-creating car park to facilitate his big development.

There's possibly something dodgy in that.

3. Mr O'Toole then decided not to build the shopping centre, nursing homes, hotels, boulevard, etc.

I don't think he decided not to build. There's a recession on at the moment, it would have been pointless to try building now.

4. Without abiding to the Planning Laws he stealthily cut down the trees on the Palace Road, bulldozed the site and turned it into a car park for his business, thereby taking possession of it.

He did cut down some great trees, My friend that was working there said they cut down a lime tree that was over 200 years old. He said he also contacted the Tuam herald before it happened and while they said they'd send someone down they ignored it in the end.

That's part of my problem with this whining after the fact, everyone knew what was happening and had their chance to stop it but did nothing at the time. It's pointless crying about it now because there's nothing that can be done to bring back those trees.

5. He installed gates and bollards to prevent people using "his" car park as a Right Of Way to access the Palace Grounds park and its public facilities.

Where? I use that road and go through the car park on a weekly basis and I've never been obstructed.

The group formed to protest against his despicable behaviour now numbers more than 2000.

Keyboard warriors on Facebook, nothing is going to happen in the real world.

Would you like to join us?

I've got better things to worry about.

speakinthethird

ScumLord wrote: »

"For walking between the road outside Supervalue to the park behind it's not a major inconvenience. There are no obstructions, only one road to cross. Simply from a transport point of view it's no worse and it doesn't stop anyone from doing what they always did."

You seem to be under a lot of misconceptions scumlord let me assist by giving you facts so you can better understand the matter - There are now 4 roads including those within the car park to traverse to get from supervalu to the Palace park!


"And it did create jobs I know people that worked on the job."

There were no Jobs created within the town only jobs lost due to the big dig which coffeys were contracted to undertake, it was also coffeys which developed the site in question after it was considered handy for them to prolong their work in the town while undertaking the o'toole development,,so therefore no jobs were created only existing jobs prolonged! If the main project had started then yes jobs would have been created, that didnt happen sadly..


"That's part of my problem with this whining after the fact, everyone knew what was happening and had their chance to stop it but did nothing at the time. It's pointless crying about it now because there's nothing that can be done to bring back those trees."

Towns people voiced their concerns many times as did a couple of hundred people who protested in the town square just over a year ago, when assurances where received regarding the development, then in the blink of an eye the road was demolished without the public right of way being extinguished and without planning permission for the car park which now lies over it,, therefore I find your whining comment extremely disingenuous!
Where? I use that road and go through the car park on a weekly basis and I've never been obstructed.
Try going down after 10 bells or before 7 bells..

Hope that helps to allow you understand the situation better.

Mr Keek

ScumLord wrote: »

For walking between the road outside Supervalue to the park behind it's not a major inconvenience.

It's not the inconvenience that most people are worried about, I think most people are angry at the loss of what we had compared to what we have. Tuam ain't the most picturesce town in the country, and one particular spot of beauty is now a car park. The whole development is pretty glim, the wire fences each side of the road when driving from Bishop Street to Shop St reminds me of a tour I had around the Maze Prison.

ScumLord wrote: »

Where? I use that road and go through the car park on a weekly basis and I've never been obstructed.

The barriers goes up outside of business hours, can't speak during the week as I'm not around, but during the weekend, the car park is blocked off. The bollards are errected at the very entrance of the car park where the old road down to the Palace used to start.

Personally I wouldn't be too bothered about this myself and I would never drive through a car park. If he didn't, he would have the Cruisers around there burning rubber. I used to use the old road the whole time when heading down to the Kingfisher, now the new road takes care of that. I hate to admit it, but I do find that road handy...., still not worth what we lost to gain it though.

ScumLord wrote: »

That's part of my problem with this whining after the fact, everyone knew what was happening and had their chance to stop it but did nothing at the time. It's pointless crying about it now because there's nothing that can be done to bring back those trees.

Agreed. Our Town Council let us down completly in that regard. See my rants above. All this action, whiles very noble and being the right thing to do is too little too late. It's like locking the stable after the horse has run off!

I hope I'm wrong, but it'll never be the same.

I've joined the group and look forward to see what's gonna happen. I'm willing to support in anyway I can.

ScumLord

speakinthethird wrote: »

There were no Jobs created within the town only jobs lost due to the big dig which coffeys were contracted to undertake, it was also coffeys which developed the site in question after it was considered handy for them to prolong their work in the town while undertaking the o'toole development,,so therefore no jobs were created only existing jobs prolonged! If the main project had started then yes jobs would have been created, that didnt happen sadly..

Coffees are incompetent and useless, there's no argument from me but the fact is they had to hire people to do that job. I know the people they hired and they where locals. They were hired through an agency so they didn't get paid or treated to well but the fact is jobs where created because of the road.

Towns people voiced their concerns many times as did a couple of hundred people who protested in the town square just over a year ago, when assurances where received regarding the development, then in the blink of an eye the road was demolished without the public right of way being extinguished and without planning permission for the car park which now lies over it,, therefore I find your whining comment extremely disingenuous!

It's whining, it's after the fact, the opportunity to do anything constructive has passed. We're far to busy giving out about never ending feuds from the past. If I thought that this was going to end up in anything constructive I might care but it's just a crusade that will fizzle out.

Try going down after 10 bells or before 7 bells..

I didn't know they lock it up, I don't even see how they could lock it up to the point people can't walk through. Maybe for a car but at the end of the day it's as easy for me to take the other route if I'm driving.

speakinthethird

ScumLord wrote: »

- "Coffees are incompetent and useless, there's no argument from me but the fact is they had to hire people to do that job. I know the people they hired and they where locals. They were hired through an agency so they didn't get paid or treated to well but the fact is jobs where created because of the road."

Agree with regard to coffees, agree that a small number of Jobs may have been created during the building phase of the ring road but that road is not a part of the disputed area, the disputed area is where the car park now lies and was to be the palace development it hasnt commenced so how cld any jobs be created from it.. - here is a link to a few pictures of the proposed development which wld have given jobs - http://www.architecturedesignpartners.com/mixed-used-development-tuam-co-galway..


"It's whining, it's after the fact, the opportunity to do anything constructive has passed. We're far to busy giving out about never ending feuds from the past. If I thought that this was going to end up in anything constructive I might care but it's just a crusade that will fizzle out."

I dont understand why you keep saying "whining" and "after the fact" it makes no sense when the process that was to proceed prior to any development has not been gone through,the car park is simply unauthorised,there is no planning permission for it, all the people seek is that the laws and processes are respected and enforced, if they were respected do you really think the people of tuam wld have consented to a car park over their public right of way, you and i both know they wouldnt.. thats why lobbying the 7 local councillors is important because the decision has not been made yet, so with that i hope you can see that being passive in this matter is akin to saying lets build carparks everywhere and to hell with the law of the land and to hell with whos land people build upon,,i hope you understand and i hope you show your support for the law of the land and e,mail the local councillors instructing them to vote No to the relinquisment of the right of way,,

bagels

ScumLord wrote: »

For walking between the road outside Supervalue to the park behind it's not a major inconvenience. There are no obstructions, only one road to cross. Simply from a transport point of view it's no worse and it doesn't stop anyone from doing what they always did.

No I'm not following the facebook panic page.

And it did create jobs I know people that worked on the job.


There's possibly something dodgy in that.

I don't think he decided not to build. There's a recession on at the moment, it would have been pointless to try building now.

He did cut down some great trees, My friend that was working there said they cut down a lime tree that was over 200 years old. He said he also contacted the Tuam herald before it happened and while they said they'd send someone down they ignored it in the end.

That's part of my problem with this whining after the fact, everyone knew what was happening and had their chance to stop it but did nothing at the time. It's pointless crying about it now because there's nothing that can be done to bring back those trees.

Where? I use that road and go through the car park on a weekly basis and I've never been obstructed.


Keyboard warriors on Facebook, nothing is going to happen in the real world.

I've got better things to worry about.

ScumLord wrote: »

Coffees are incompetent and useless, there's no argument from me but the fact is they had to hire people to do that job. I know the people they hired and they where locals. They were hired through an agency so they didn't get paid or treated to well but the fact is jobs where created because of the road.


It's whining, it's after the fact, the opportunity to do anything constructive has passed. We're far to busy giving out about never ending feuds from the past. If I thought that this was going to end up in anything constructive I might care but it's just a crusade that will fizzle out.



I didn't know they lock it up, I don't even see how they could lock it up to the point people can't walk through. Maybe for a car but at the end of the day it's as easy for me to take the other route if I'm driving.

Posters here have taken time and trouble in attempts to educate you about the topic.
You yourself, by your own admission, couldn't be bothered even reading the factual information that's been put out there on Facebook for the convenience of you and others.
Yet armed with your discourtesy and lack of understanding of the simplicities of the matter, you still continue to pontificate here.
I could continue but i don't see the point as you've shown yourself to be unwilling to learn the facts.

ScumLord

speakinthethird wrote: »

Agree with regard to coffees, agree that a small number of Jobs may have been created during the building phase of the ring road but that road is not a part of the disputed area, the disputed area is where the car park now lies and was to be the palace development it hasnt commenced so how cld any jobs be created from it.. -

Even if O'Toole went ahead with the entire project there more than likely wouldn't be any jobs for anyone. If Businesses that are already in Tuam are struggling there's no way it can support more competition. The buildings would end up dangerous derelicts that would only cost money to maintain.

I think it's fair to say the recession cancelled those buildings, arguing what could have been is as pointless as whining after the opportunity to act has passed.

the car park is simply unauthorised,there is no planning permission for it,

Fair enough, that's the issue. It's a legal matter that should be dealt with in a court. The rest of the points are just nitpicking and mob mentality.

bagels wrote: »

reading the factual information that's been put out there on Facebook

Lol, facts aren't allowed on Facebook.

speakinthethird

Goodman Scumlord, as soon as your supposed facts were shown to be wrong you change them and change your argument to the recession,, your posts are what you are accusing us off "nitpicking" "whining" the truth here is that you are simply too docile and lazy to find out the facts and to stand for whats right which in this case sits beside the Law of the land,,if you want to sit back and not care thats your choice, but to be coming on here lying and making ridiculous accusations about the people who do want to protect their heritage and rights is quite distasteful and really shows you out to be what your accusing us off,,what will it take for you to wakeup, will it take a carpark being built on your driveway without planning permission, i bet you'll be shouting and roaring then!!

ScumLord

speakinthethird wrote: »

Goodman Scumlord, as soon as your supposed facts were shown to be wrong you change them and change your argument to the recession,,

What facts have I been proven wrong on? From the very beginning I said the recession was the reason the development didn't go ahead. This was only a few posts back read it for yourself.

the people who do want to protect their heritage and rights is quite distasteful

I'd love for people to stand up for their heritage but the fact is their heritage has already been plundered so ye failed on that count.


I have said from the beginning if O'Toole illegally built the car park then he should be done for that I have no problem at all with him being punished for what he did. The rest of the arguments are pretty pointless giving out about access and having to drive in a different road they make no difference. I'm not surprised people get stuck on these non-issues though, I just don't understand why. They just seem like ammunition for an argument rather than being anything constructive.

I'm not from Tuam so I'm not emotionally involved with the issue I'm just giving an unbiased opinion on the matter. There is a clear issue with illegal building the rest is just a distraction.

Tinder

IT was published this week that a new pedestrian route through the car park will be sorted within the next few weeks.

Protest over!

The road was always going to be lost no matter what, it was part of the building of the new relief road.

All this cribbing after the fact is a bit of a waste of time. all the plans for the removal of the road were published in various publications a number of times.

If safe passage for school kids to get from one side to the other is provided as is muted I don;t see what people are moaning about, also just because the page has that many followers does not mean that they all agree with your point of view

A boycott of the supermarket is the most stupid thing I have heard yet.
All that would achieve is job losses for local people so let's not be over dramatic.

Greaney

Goodness, I've just had a quick read of this thread and it's so depressing. Trees knocked, a 'right of way' being closed??? I despair at this country, we just uglify our towns & communities and wonder why we're all glum and we don't prosper.

...'take paradise, put up a parking lot'

bagels

Tinder wrote: »

IT was published this week that a new pedestrian route through the car park will be sorted within the next few weeks.

Incorrect. Mr O'Toole decided he'd provide what he reckoned would be a safe pedestrian route. The four School Principals rejected his planned route as grossly unsafe. Who is Mr O'Toole to decide what is a safe route? On land he doesn't own? That doesn't have planning permission? That planning permission hasn't yet been applied for? And he'd still retain possession of our land? Do the laws of the land not apply to him? Do you support his landgrab and several breaches of the planning laws? Do you think wealthy people should be allowed to do what they want even if its against the law? Do you think the little people are not entitled to rights and the protection of the laws of the land? etc etc etc

Tinder wrote: »

Protest over!

No, its just beginning.

Tinder wrote: »

The road was always going to be lost no matter what, it was part of the building of the new relief road.

Again, incorrect.
The Palace Road had nothing to do with the building of the inner relief road, which was a stand alone project.

Tinder wrote: »

All this cribbing after the fact is a bit of a waste of time.

It wasn't possible to crib before the fact because we weren't aware that the Palace Road was going to be demolished.

Tinder wrote: »

all the plans for the removal of the road were published in various publications a number of times.

Again, incorrect.
Plans for the removal were not published in any publications even a single time.
Any plans were kept secret and executed without warning.
None of the statutory obligations regarding notification of applications for planning permission were fulfilled.

Tinder wrote: »

If safe passage for school kids to get from one side to the other is provided as is muted I don;t see what people are moaning about,

People are moaning about their safe access road being taken from them and unlawfully turned into a car park.
If somebody seized your property would you moan?

Tinder wrote: »

also just because the page has that many followers does not mean that they all agree with your point of view

Those that disagree with us number less than a dozen, and almost all happen to have connections with Mr O'Toole.
We fully respect their right to disagree with us.

Tinder wrote: »

A boycott of the supermarket is the most stupid thing I have heard yet.
All that would achieve is job losses for local people so let's not be over dramatic.

The organising committee don't advocate a boycott or anything similar.
Our demand is to have OUR road restored.

For the benefit of others who might post on this thread, please undertake just a little research on this matter before posting unbalanced, uninformed comments.
The information is all out there readily available.
Its taking up far too much of my time explaining things to posters who hadn't bothered to inform themselves before coming on here waffling.

Tinder

When I saw the plans (the very first set of plans that were published) new development the right of way was not there on the plans, in other words the road that everyone wants restored was always going to be demolished so why did you not object then?

ScumLord

bagels wrote: »

Its taking up far too much of my time explaining things to posters who hadn't bothered to inform themselves before coming on here waffling.

This is a discussion forum, if you don't have time to take part in the discussion that's your problem. I think it's more a case of you don't like people disagreeing with you.

People also keep going on about all these facts and information but nobody has posted any links to any of this information.

bagels

Tinder wrote: »

When I saw the plans (the very first set of plans that were published) new development the right of way was not there on the plans, in other words the road that everyone wants restored was always going to be demolished so why did you not object then?

The application for planning permission for the large development has been changed three times at least so there's a multitude of maps out there in cyberspace.
Even the plan/map for the Tuam Traffic Plan, which i examined today in the company of the relevant Council Officials, includes the Palace Road as an integral part of Tuam.
I and my companions have spent more than a week engaged in exhaustive research and if our opinions/facts aren't acceptable to you then fair play.
When in the near future an application for planning permission for the demolition of the Palace Road is finally brought into the public domain, will you then believe me?

bagels

ScumLord wrote: »

This is a discussion forum, if you don't have time to take part in the discussion that's your problem. I think it's more a case of you don't like people disagreeing with you.

People also keep going on about all these facts and information but nobody has posted any links to any of this information.

Stop behaving like a spoilt child that demands to be spoon fed.
I won't be engaging in further discourse with you because there's none so deaf as those who won't listen.

bagels

Mr Keek wrote: »

And can you tell me why the town council cannot pursue the matter with the Galway County Council......

Mr Keek wrote: »

It's not the inconvenience that most people are worried about, I think most people are angry at the loss of what we had compared to what we have. Tuam ain't the most picturesce town in the country, and one particular spot of beauty is now a car park......

Apologies for the delay in responding.
I'm not a town councillor thank god, i don't have any involvement in politics.
We've studied the environmental impact, heritage, an taisce, etc reports and there's no relief to be found within.
We've carried out exhaustive research, as is evident on the facebook page, and we are satisfied that Mr O'Toole never had any intention of turning a sod.
The Galway County Council Executive engaged in dealings with him without due deference to the people of Tuam.
Certain County Councillors were happy to go along with this.
Mr O'Toole acted contrary to planning legislation.
Galway County Council Executive failed to police the implementation of the terms of related planning permission and didn't take action to prevent Mr O'Toole further destroying the Palace Road.
Mr O'Toole hasn't made any attempt to develop the site, as per his part of the deal, but yet he's taken possession of public land and vandalised it.
I'm led to believe that, as part of the deal, Galway Co Co gifted Mr O'Toole ownership of another car park in front of his store. This car park was public property and generated revenue for the Co Co. Now Mr O'Toole owns it and Galway Co Co is leasing it back from him, I kid you not.
You couldn't make it up.
Do you see what we're up against?
Anyway, thanks for your support.

ScumLord

bagels wrote: »

Stop behaving like a spoilt child that demands to be spoon fed.
I won't be engaging in further discourse with you because there's none so deaf as those who won't listen.

I'm not surprised, I ask you for evidence and prove and you tell me your done talking, I'm listening and your not talking. Your avoiding fact for rhetoric and then throwing around insults to add to your back seat modding.

This all just confirms that this is the nonsense of the baying mob.

Mr Keek

bagels wrote: »

Mr O'Toole hasn't made any attempt to develop the site, as per his part of the deal, but yet he's taken possession of public land and vandalised it.

Couldn't agree more, this whole thing is disgusting and rotten to the core.

When this whole "Project" was completed, I went down for a look. I just stood there in the car park and I just felt completly deflated and nearly cried, I'm a 27 year old male!!

All the memories from the past, heading down after school to meet up with the the pres girls, all the days spent mitching down the park, hanging around the river....and those days/memories seem so distant now...I know the park is still there, but it just so disconnected now. You really had a feeling that you were out in the country when you walked down that road into the park.

...such loss and destruction for something so worthless.

Joe has left some legacy for himself now, all the things he done, he'll now always be remembered for this. Well done Sham! I hope people treat his 'good name' like he treated our Palace!

The news I read in the Hearld about footpaths and a passage way to the pres/park is one bit of good news, it really is unsafe walking around up there. I do think though that his hand was forced and he'll use it as a PR stunt and an attempt to get in people's good books again....I'd love to see the media naming and shaming all involved.

I wasn't aware of the full extent of planning permission breaches etc, I really do hope Joe O'Toole for his deception and all the County Council staff involved in this for their lack of duty of care and incompetence suffer the harshest consequences possible.

Das Kitty

bagels wrote: »

Stop behaving like a spoilt child that demands to be spoon fed.
I won't be engaging in further discourse with you because there's none so deaf as those who won't listen.

ScumLord wrote: »

I'm not surprised, I ask you for evidence and prove and you tell me your done talking, I'm listening and your not talking. Your avoiding fact for rhetoric and then throwing around insults to add to your back seat modding.

This all just confirms that this is the nonsense of the baying mob.

Mod Note --

Folks, please dial back on the personal jibes. You're both well capable of discussing this without resorting to that. If you find you can't, best not comment at all.