A few important questions

ozzz

Hello everyone.

It would be great if anyone could shed some light on the following questions .

Thanks in advance!

1. If our lives are predestined even before we were conceived, and if all is the will of Allah, then how can we be made accountable for our actions? Saying that we have the free- will to make our own decisions doesn't make much sense when ultimately our fate has been sealed since before birth.

2. How can Allah punish his own creations? Why create them in the first place if He knows exactly where they end up i.e. heaven/ hell.

3. Why is there so much mention of punishment/ torture/ hell fire/ torment of the grave in the Koran? Is the entire religion based on instilling fear in people?

4. How come sexual intercourse outside of wedlock is prohibited in Islam while at the same time its permissible to have sex with one's slave girl, even if she is already married?

5. Sharing food with a disbeliever is haram? Why? Aren't the disbelievers also God's creation?

6. Why does Allah say he guides only those whom he wishes? Makes very little sense to me.

Does anyone have any real reasons to believe in Islam as the one and only true religion, or in any other religion as a matter of fact?

The decision of picking any one religion over another comes down to belief i.e. blind faith.

Then how can members of any one religious group (including Islam) be justified in saying their religion is the correct one when it all comes down to individual beliefs?

irishconvert

ozzz wrote: »

Hello everyone.

It would be great if anyone could shed some light on the following questions .

Thanks in advance!

1. If our lives are predestined even before we were conceived, and if all is the will of Allah, then how can we be made accountable for our actions? Saying that we have the free- will to make our own decisions doesn't make much sense when ultimately our fate has been sealed since before birth.

2. How can Allah punish his own creations? Why create them in the first place if He knows exactly where they end up i.e. heaven/ hell.

3. Why is there so much mention of punishment/ torture/ hell fire/ torment of the grave in the Koran? Is the entire religion based on instilling fear in people?

4. How come sexual intercourse outside of wedlock is prohibited in Islam while at the same time its permissible to have sex with one's slave girl, even if she is already married?

5. Sharing food with a disbeliever is haram? Why? Aren't the disbelievers also God's creation?

6. Why does Allah say he guides only those whom he wishes? Makes very little sense to me.

Does anyone have any real reasons to believe in Islam as the one and only true religion, or in any other religion as a matter of fact?

The decision of picking any one religion over another comes down to belief i.e. blind faith.

Then how can members of any one religious group (including Islam) be justified in saying their religion is the correct one when it all comes down to individual beliefs?

Please back up all your points with quotes or references, e.g. "Sharing food with a disbeliever is haram", where did you read this? Thank you

booom

ozzz wrote: »

Hello everyone.

It would be great if anyone could shed some light on the following questions .

Thanks in advance!

1. If our lives are predestined even before we were conceived, and if all is the will of Allah, then how can we be made accountable for our actions? Saying that we have the free- will to make our own decisions doesn't make much sense when ultimately our fate has been sealed since before birth.

2. How can Allah punish his own creations? Why create them in the first place if He knows exactly where they end up i.e. heaven/ hell.

3. Why is there so much mention of punishment/ torture/ hell fire/ torment of the grave in the Koran? Is the entire religion based on instilling fear in people?

4. How come sexual intercourse outside of wedlock is prohibited in Islam while at the same time its permissible to have sex with one's slave girl, even if she is already married?

5. Sharing food with a disbeliever is haram? Why? Aren't the disbelievers also God's creation?

6. Why does Allah say he guides only those whom he wishes? Makes very little sense to me.

Does anyone have any real reasons to believe in Islam as the one and only true religion, or in any other religion as a matter of fact?

The decision of picking any one religion over another comes down to belief i.e. blind faith.

Then how can members of any one religious group (including Islam) be justified in saying their religion is the correct one when it all comes down to individual beliefs?

Rather than fob you off with instructions to edit your post I'll have a go at some of these- maybe someone with more knowledge of the subject will take it from there.
- 1 & 2; no idea, sound like valid questions an surely merit more thought and research
-3; all those things appear in abundance in the old testament. mohammad would have been well aware of old testament writings due to his exposure to judaism and christianity during his early career as a trader with an uncle. to my mind most organised religion is based on fear/control.
-4; again, no idea here, but i think the 3 main religions frown (to differing degrees) against sex out of wedlock/homosexuality etc. but you can't expect a belief system of any kind to have much logic applied when it comes to biological interaction between humans.
-5; again, not sure about this one. i lived and worked with muslims for years and this was never an issue. if anything, their cooking is pretty good.
-6; blank here, i'm afraid.
i think the issue of 'picking' a religion is a tricky one. generally speaking, if you live in a liberal western democratic (some tricky words there in themselves), you can pick a religion. but i argue that this is only possible because in this particular society you reason things out and then make a decision based on any number of factors (assuming the individual is wearing their rational actor cap). by contrast, and i'm open to correction here, but as far as i'm aware (and no- i wont be chasing down quotes here as my memory isn't good enough to remember where i read or heard everything), if an individual is born into the muslim faith and then decide they want to follow another religion, or even become agnostic or athiest, they're called an apostate- which can bring its own set of troubles ranging from being ostracized (happened here in ireland regularly, and you didn't even have to marry outside the christian faith) to being murdered- but, of course, its not called murder (get your head around that one).
so your final point sheds a lot of light on any religion- nobody in a society that places its trust the ability of humans to reason and decide freely should pay the slightest bit of attention to anyone who claims theirs is the only true religion, and societies that are not based on reason and logic have little choice but to accept a dogma that is not open to debate (because the result will always be the same ie: you're wrong, we're right and it is the only true religion even though i can't produce an ounce of scientific proof that people walked on water, smashed stone tablets that were carved by god or took magic carpet rides through the night).

KamiKazi

irishconvert wrote: »

ozzz wrote: »

Hello everyone.

It would be great if anyone could shed some light on the following questions .

Thanks in advance!

1. If our lives are predestined even before we were conceived, and if all is the will of Allah, then how can we be made accountable for our actions? Saying that we have the free- will to make our own decisions doesn't make much sense when ultimately our fate has been sealed since before birth.

2. How can Allah punish his own creations? Why create them in the first place if He knows exactly where they end up i.e. heaven/ hell.

3. Why is there so much mention of punishment/ torture/ hell fire/ torment of the grave in the Koran? Is the entire religion based on instilling fear in people?

4. How come sexual intercourse outside of wedlock is prohibited in Islam while at the same time its permissible to have sex with one's slave girl, even if she is already married?

5. Sharing food with a disbeliever is haram? Why? Aren't the disbelievers also God's creation?

6. Why does Allah say he guides only those whom he wishes? Makes very little sense to me.

Does anyone have any real reasons to believe in Islam as the one and only true religion, or in any other religion as a matter of fact?

The decision of picking any one religion over another comes down to belief i.e. blind faith.

Then how can members of any one religious group (including Islam) be justified in saying their religion is the correct one when it all comes down to individual beliefs?

Please back up all your points with quotes or references, e.g. "Sharing food with a disbeliever is haram", where did you read this? Thank you

Seriously is that the best you can do to back up your great religion?

hivizman

KamiKazi wrote: »

Seriously is that the best you can do to back up your great religion?

The forum charter makes it clear that (a) it is not the role of the forum for Muslims to have to defend their religion against each and every criticism, and (b) if someone makes a factual claim, then he or she can be challenged to provide some backup for it.

The original poster raised various issues. Some of the points relate to the very difficult issue of free will, destiny (qadr), personal responsibility and what the Qu'ran actually means when it talks of Allah as "guiding whomsover He wills" and "misguiding" others. This would merit a separate, serious thread, and the issues have relevance for other religions such as Christianity, where questions of predestination and free will are also important.

The other two issues relate to limitations on sex and the apparent permission for men to have sexual relations with concubines, and the claim that "sharing food with a disbeliever is haram".

I think that Irishconvert asked the original poster for evidence about the last claim in the expectation that no evidence would be forthcoming. I have never heard or read the claim that it is haram for a Muslim to share food with a non-Muslim. I guess that the claim is a muddled version of an extreme interpretation of Surat al-Maidah 5:51, which reads, in the Mohsin Khan English language version of the Qu'ran: "O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Auliya' (friends, protectors, helpers, etc.), they are but Auliya' to one another. And if any amongst you takes them as Auliya', then surely he is one of them. Verily, Allah guides not those people who are the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong­doers and unjust)." Several of the other common translations simply translate the Arabic word Auliya' as "friends", and a few Muslims take the verse as authority for the view that Muslims should have as little to do with non-Muslims as possible (certainly not be friends with non-Muslims). However, the majority view is that the word has more of a connotation of "protector" rather than "friend", and that the verse is a warning for Muslims not to become subservient to non-Muslims, rather than a prohibition on interacting with them.

The generous hospitality of most Muslims around the world to non-Muslims surely refutes the claim that it is haram for Muslims and non-Muslims to share food.

Frank Grimes

hivizman wrote: »

The generous hospitality of most Muslims around the world to non-Muslims surely refutes the claim that it is haram for Muslims and non-Muslims to share food.

I can personally attest to this having been in several Muslim countries and experienced very generous hospitality from Muslims I met along the way. In some cases there wasn't even a conversation taking place, just food being shared with me (when I had none) along a journey.

ozzz

irishconvert wrote: »

Please back up all your points with quotes or references, e.g. "Sharing food with a disbeliever is haram", where did you read this? Thank you

Apologies for the delay in replying.

Before I do provide references, I would just like to make something clear. My motive for raising these questions is solely for my own understanding. I want to know the truth, or at least come close to it. I do not wish to create confusion in the minds of Muslims who are content with Islam or Non- Muslims who are thinking about "reverting" nor do I want to give Islam a bad name.

Also, if I offend/ have offended anyone throughout this thread, please note that it is not my intention to do so.

With regards to your request, I'll try my best.

1. " Allah’s name al-`Alīm (the All-Knowing) is an emphatic form of the word ālim (knower). It appears 157 times in the Qur’an. For example: “Indeed You are the All-Knowing, the Wise.” [Sūrah al-Baqarah: 32] “And He is the All-Knowing, the All-Powerful.” [Sūrah Rūm: 54] and “That is the determination of the Mighty, the All-Knowing.” [Sūrah al-An`ām: 96]"

From the above paragraph, it is clear that Allah has the knowledge of EVERYTHING i.e seen/ unseen. So to say that He doesn't know where we'll end up after death, i.e. heaven/ hell is foolish.

2. The cold hard truth about Islam is that Hell does exist and non- believers/ wrong doers will be punished.

Quran (22:19-21) - "But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads; Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron".

3. Quran (4:56) - "Those who disbelieve Our revelations, We shall expose them to the Fire. As often as their skins are consumed We shall exchange them for fresh skins that they may taste the torment Lo! Allah is ever Mighty, Wise"

Muslim (40:6831) - Non-Muslims in Hell will be given thick skin so as to prolong their agony (before they are given fresh skin for a new round of torture - Quran verse 4:56).

"And those who disbelieved will be driven to Hell in groups until, when they reach it, its gates are opened and its keepers will say: 'Did there not come to you messengers from yourselves, reciting to you the verses of your Lord and warning you of the meeting of this Day of yours?' They will say: 'Yes, but the word [i.e. decree] of punishment has come into effect upon the disbelievers.'" [Quran 39: 71]

Many more examples can be found in the Koran.

4. Qur'an (33:50) - "O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those (slaves) whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee"

Qur'an (4:24) - "And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess."

5. I cannot seem to find where I read this. I could be wrong.

But what I do know for a fact is that it is impermissible to eat food offered by non- Muslims in celebration of their own holy days e.g. it is haram to eat food offered by a Christian on Christmas, even if the meat is halal and has been prepared while keeping Islamic values in mind.

This, however, makes sense.

6. "If Allah so willed He could make you all one people: but He leaves straying whom He pleases and He guides whom He pleases: but ye shall certainly be called to account for all your actions" Koran- 16:93

"Whom Allah doth guide he is on the right path: whom He rejects from His guidance such are the persons who perish." Koran- 7:178


Hope that helps.

If I have misquoted anything, please let me know.

hivizman

ozzz wrote: »

Apologies for the delay in replying.

Before I do provide references, I would just like to make something clear. My motive for raising these questions is solely for my own understanding. I want to know the truth, or at least come close to it. I do not wish to create confusion in the minds of Muslims who are content with Islam or Non- Muslims who are thinking about "reverting" nor do I want to give Islam a bad name.

Also, if I offend/ have offended anyone throughout this thread, please note that it is not my intention to do so.

With regards to your request, I'll try my best.

Thanks for this.

I've bracketed out points 1, 2 3 and 6, which all deal with issues of free will, destiny, and Allah as All-Knowing and All-Powerful. If I have time, I'll come back to this separately. I've also bracketed out point 5, on eating, where I think we have reached a consensus. This leaves point 4.

ozzz wrote: »

4. Qur'an (33:50) - "O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those (slaves) whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee"

Qur'an (4:24) - "And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess."


If I have misquoted anything, please let me know.

I've checked the various translations of these verses (you are using a slight paraphrase of the Pickthall translation), in case there are translation issues, but the ten or so English translations of the Qur'an that I've looked at are in agreement. In Surat an-Nisaa 4:24, I was at first unsure about the translation of the first word in the verse (al-muḥ'ṣanātu), as in most contexts (for example in the next verse) this is translated as "the free chaste women", but Muhammad Asad explains the translation as follows:

"The term muhsanah signifies literally 'a woman who is fortified [against unchastity]', and carries three senses: (1) 'a married woman', (2) 'a chaste woman', and (3) 'a free woman'. According to almost all the authorities, al-muhsanat denotes in the above context 'married women'. As for the expression ma malakat aymanukum ('those whom your right hands possess', i.e., 'those whom you rightfully possess'), it is often taken to mean female slaves captured in a war in God's cause . . . The commentators who choose this meaning hold that such slave-girls can be taken in marriage irrespective of whether they have husbands in the country of their origin or not. However, quite apart from the fundamental differences of opinion, even among the Companions of the Prophet, regarding the legality of such a marriage, so of the most outstanding commentators hold the view that ma malakat aymanukum denotes here 'women whom you rightfully possess through wedlock'."

Kecia Ali, in her book Sexual Ethics & Islam: Feminist Reflections on Qur'an, Hadith and Jurisprudence (OneWorld: 2006) is somewhat sceptical of the interpretation that sex with concubines is legal only if the women concerned are not concubines but wives (in which case they wouldn't be concubines or slaves). Legally, becoming enslaved may make any previous marriage void, so perhaps verse 4:24 is emphasising that even concubines should be chaste. Dr Ali, though, focuses more on the general issue of how far Islam can be regarded as tolerating slavery, and asks (page 52): "How does one reconcile the presumption of slaveholding in Qur'an, hadith and classical jurisprudence with the contemporary reality of the Muslim world where legal slavery no longer exists?" Her overall argument is that much of the discussion of marriage and sexual relations in classical Islamic jurisprudence is dominated by issues of property and by false analogies between ownership of concubines and marriage, and she concludes: "Although the vast majority of Muslims do not consider slavery, especially slave concubinage, to be acceptable practices for the modern world, the reticence to confront the juristic, as well as the social, legacies of slavery has resulted in blindness to the hierarchical residue of its practice to Islamic gender relations more broadly, and to marriage and sexual relations in particular."

So the issue of these verses is not so much the particular question of sex with concubines, but rather the extent to which the Qur'an appears to be condoning slavery.