Jamming Alarms

Condatis · 08-07-2012 11:08am #1

There have been news media reports that criminals have the technology to jam the GSM signals used by household alarms such as Eircom Phonewatch.

Is there any way to guard against this?

KoolKid · 08-07-2012 12:28pm

Don't use GSM. Some company's are still trying to sell you this.
Its not secure. You're best option is radio but it's more expensive.
After that a a phone line and try and secure your external phone points.

Capt'n Midnight · 08-07-2012 12:41pm

KoolKid wrote: »

Don't use GSM. Some company's are still trying to sell you this.
Its not secure. You're best option is radio but it's more expensive.
After that a a phone line and try and secure your external phone points.

A GSM jammer will take out mobile phones and 3G internet, so is far more likely to be noticed than a jammer that just takes out the single frequency of a propriety system.

GSM jammers are just easier to get any muppet can order one from China.

Fixed line requires that burglars physically cut the line.

At this stage many people have UPC so an alarm provide could easily sell an IP product that use multiple connections (3G / Cable / DSL / other ) to phone home. It's not rocket science

KoolKid · 08-07-2012 12:52pm

The units we tested still show a line as the unit imitates a cell tower.
It shows full signal until you try to make a call.

Capt'n Midnight · 08-07-2012 1:44pm

KoolKid wrote: »

The units we tested still show a line as the unit imitates a cell tower.
It shows full signal until you try to make a call.

and how does it affect 3G broadband ?

most phones show the operator ID, what did it show ?

Buried wires FTW

Condatis · 08-07-2012 2:33pm

According to the Irish Times this week there is a government regulation requiring alarm systems to use GSM.

KoolKid · 08-07-2012 2:38pm

Its crazy, GSM is still recognized as part of the standards. The authorities have not been educated of the risks here. Guards , in some, cases , are still insisting on GSM for gun safes etc.
It will take a big insurance claim because of a GSM failure. Then the insurance industry & others will take notice. One of the biggest monitoring companies in the country are still offering GSM as a solution without informing the customer of the risks.

TakeaBowSon · 08-07-2012 4:10pm

Condatis wrote: »

According to the Irish Times this week there is a government regulation requiring alarm systems to use GSM.

The regulation you refer to applies only for government and semi-state buildings.Its not the case for any other type of building (eg someone's home)

EvilMonkey · 08-07-2012 6:04pm

KoolKid wrote: »

The units we tested still show a line as the unit imitates a cell tower.
It shows full signal until you try to make a call.

It wont be long before they can send fake polls too so!

I don't know how GSMs work but could this type of jamming be stopped by manufactures changing how their devices select base stations? Change it so it doesn't use a base station that it has not seen before and is suddenly offering strong signal. Or send signals out via multiple base stations.

KoolKid · 08-07-2012 6:30pm

EvilMonkey wrote: »

I don't know how GSMs work but could this type of jamming be stopped by manufactures changing how their devices select base stations? Change it so it doesn't use a base station that it has not seen before and is suddenly offering strong signal. Or send signals out via multiple base stations.

I am sure they could but it would probably mean a big investment in compassion to a very small part of their market.

kub · 08-07-2012 11:29pm

Condatis wrote: »

There have been news media reports that criminals have the technology to jam the GSM signals used by household alarms such as Eircom Phonewatch.

Is there any way to guard against this?

Hi Condatis, I am sure and can detect that you appreciate that us in the industry have been aware of this for a long time.

Was this report in todays papers, just curious, where did you read it?

Condatis · 09-07-2012 6:27am

kub wrote: »

Hi Condatis, I am sure and can detect that you appreciate that us in the industry have been aware of this for a long time.

Was this report in todays papers, just curious, where did you read it?

No. The most recent article that I have seen was in the Irish Times last week – I don't remember what day.

The issue was featured also on RTE Radio 1 – one of the talks I think.

kub · 09-07-2012 9:54pm

Condatis wrote: »

No. The most recent article that I have seen was in the Irish Times last week – I don't remember what day.

The issue was featured also on RTE Radio 1 – one of the talks I think.

Thank you.

altor · 09-07-2012 11:13pm

Condatis wrote: »

No. The most recent article that I have seen was in the Irish Times last week – I don't remember what day.

The issue was featured also on RTE Radio 1 – one of the talks I think.

Not a great name for a thread. The articles you refer too should also make it more clear that it is when a GSM is connected to the alarm that it is the GSM that is being blocked. Not the alarm itself.

NotForResale · 10-07-2012 2:56pm

Is it possible with alarms connected to the house line for someone e.g a burglar to dial in to the device and get information on if it is on/off or even influence the alarm?

KoolKid · 10-07-2012 2:59pm

Not without them having user access anyway.

NotForResale · 10-07-2012 3:44pm

KoolKid wrote: »

Not without them having user access anyway.

I keep getting a private number call to the house during midday when im in but it looks like everyone is out.

Last time it happened the i could hear the alarm voice on the phone telling me "system on". Seems odd.

Mr Simpson · 10-07-2012 3:51pm

I had an engineer in from a large monitoring a couple of weeks ago. I decided out of interest to ask him about GSM, as we want to move away from eircom phone & broadband (I'd already ruled out GSM, I just was interested to hear his answer). He swore blind that it was completely impossible to jam GSM and that a great example was the governments inability to block mobile phones in prison. I just nodded and smiled

KoolKid · 10-07-2012 4:05pm

The way some licenced company's are prepared to blatantly lie to their customers is frightening.

Thunderbird2 · 10-07-2012 5:25pm

I wouldn't think it's possible without the alarm activating due to a line fault . Make sure the phone point is protected and even add a sensor to the point and make it awkward for anyone to get at the cables. Ie
If the cable is in a housing box outside place a false back and dummy wires . That way the alarm can dial out

Thunderbird2 · 10-07-2012 5:38pm

NotForResale wrote: »

KoolKid wrote: »

Not without them having user access anyway.

I keep getting a private number call to the house during midday when im in but it looks like everyone is out.

Last time it happened the i could hear the alarm voice on the phone telling me "system on". Seems odd.

You have an Eircom GE Simon 3 system .
Its normal that it does that .. But it gives away what kind of system you have

altor · 10-07-2012 8:28pm

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

You have an Eircom GE Simon 3 system .
Its normal that it does that .. But it gives away what kind of system you have

Does not make sense why it announces it over the phone line.
At lease you would need the code to disarm and control the system.

Thunderbird2 · 10-07-2012 11:24pm

Really ??? When I call the nans house and she doesn't answer I get a " system on " system on " message .. Even when it's not set .

Thunderbird2 · 10-07-2012 11:25pm

altor wrote: »

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

You have an Eircom GE Simon 3 system .
Its normal that it does that .. But it gives away what kind of system you have

Does not make sense why it announces it over the phone line.
At lease you would need the code to disarm and control the system.

That's true

KoolKid · 10-07-2012 11:27pm

Maybe its some sort of message meaning no access, system is on. Could be just access is not set up. TBH I don't know if that panel even has dial in capability.
If its saying system on regardless of status I wouldn't worry about it.

Thunderbird2 · 10-07-2012 11:32pm

I don't know .. Thought it was just in case anyone decides to break in and somehow gets the house num and rings to see if anyone's home ... Il give eircom PW a call and see what they think is the reason .
:-)

KoolKid · 10-07-2012 11:36pm

I think a burglar is more likely to knock on your door posing as someone to see are you home rather than ringing your phone hoping your alarm will answer & tell them,
As for getting a reliable answer from PW? Three letters GSM!!

Thunderbird2 · 10-07-2012 11:38pm

KoolKid wrote: »

I think a burglar is more likely to knock on your door posing as someone to see are you home rather than ringing your phone hoping your alarm will answer & tell them,
As for getting a reliable answer from PW? Three letters GSM!!

In this day and age I wouldn't put anything past them .. They are thinking of more and more ways to rob houses

KoolKid · 10-07-2012 11:43pm

In my experience they are getting more interested in finding ways to silence alarms quickly rather than bothering about whether they are on on not.

Thunderbird2 · 10-07-2012 11:52pm

KoolKid wrote: »

In my experience they are getting more interested in finding ways to silence alarms quickly rather than bothering about whether they are on on not.

Another thing I don't agree with are the all in one systems that are placed in plain sight like right at a front door ... If they go through the front door they have plenty of time to give it a whack of a hammer .

altor · 11-07-2012 7:59pm

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

Another thing I don't agree with are the all in one systems that are placed in plain sight like right at a front door ... If they go through the front door they have plenty of time to give it a whack of a hammer .

Another reason to have a live external bell installed on a system. Monitored or not.

Jamming Alarms

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