Bad Impression after SHM carnage

jonnny68

In light of the carnage at that SHM knackerfest yesterday i cant help but feel sorry for those on the underground dance scene who are trying to promote nights and struggling to get punters through the door yet you have 50,000 going to a knackerfest like this and the bad impression it gives out about dance music in general, and some people wonder why us old skoolers are always going on about the glory days of Rave, i never recall anything as bad as this back in the day, peace love and unity is well and truly dead unfortunately has has been for years.

Unfortunately it's a shocking reflection of what the scene has become and as i said i genuinely feel sorry for those on the underground who are so far removed from the likes of this.

kunst nugget

jonnny68 wrote: »

In light of the carnage at that SHM knackerfest yesterday i cant help but feel sorry for those on the underground dance scene who are trying to promote nights and struggling to get punters through the door yet you have 50,000 going to a knackerfest like this and the bad impression it gives out about dance music in general, and some people wonder why us old skoolers are always going on about the glory days of Rave, i never recall anything as bad as this back in the day, peace love and unity is well and truly dead unfortunately has has been for years.

Unfortunately it's a shocking reflection of what the scene has become and as i said i genuinely feel sorry for those on the underground who are so far removed from the likes of this.

Bollocks. It says more about the problems we have with lawlessness in certain sections of society than it does about the dance music 'scene'.

Go to most of the clubs in Dublin dedicated to non knacker dance and you'll see no trouble at all. This isn't going to have any effect on how these clubs operate.

jonnny68

kunst nugget wrote: »

Bollocks. It says more about the problems we have with lawlessness in certain sections of society than it does about the dance music 'scene'.

Go to most of the clubs in Dublin dedicated to non knacker dance and you'll see no trouble at all. This isn't going to have any effect on how these clubs operate.

You are missing the point, to the outsider looking in at this who may not be clued up it gives out a completely negative impression, im fully aware you will see little or no trouble at many club nights in town but that isn't the point, carnage like this just gives off a dreadful impression to your average joe soap who wouldn't know otherwise.

jonnny68

They are having a field day in the AH forum too about the SHM carnage.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056694844

kegzmc

kunst nugget wrote: »

Bollocks. It says more about the problems we have with lawlessness in certain sections of society than it does about the dance music 'scene'.

Go to most of the clubs in Dublin dedicated to non knacker dance and you'll see no trouble at all. This isn't going to have any effect on how these clubs operate.

This is complete and utter bollocks

kunst nugget

kegzmc wrote: »

This is complete and utter bollocks

Please, enlighten me. Which part?

jonnny68

Folks - i don't want this to develop into an argument i just feel that something as shocking as this gives out a really bad impression to those who wouldn't know otherwise, for example i know someone who is just into rock music and thinks dance music is "fake":rolleyes: i know whenever i see this person they will no doubt mention this.

We all know the majority of club nights in Dublin don't have any such issues like this but something like this gives a negative impression, some people might think everyone on the dance scene are scum when in fact it's not like this at all.

It's also a sad reflection that so many kids will go to this and some underground club nights would struggle to get punters through the doors.

jonnny68

It's thrash like this that annoys me big time taken from the thread in AH

Originally Posted by LH Pathe
E is the dangerous designer disco-infiltrating drug the tv shows of the 80s predicted. Became a must-take accompiament for most, to enjoy the 'music' what about the guy who has to collect his dole accompanied by his mother, lurching head-down brain- damaged and de-sensitized by one too many. Senses perma-dulled, unable to feel anythhing whatsoever anymore having got so high - that's the price; artificial buzz to artificial music in artificial environment. Robotic music/Robotic poeple. Don't be a sucker - don't be a hipster. Don't take e; don't attend raves. Nobody says you have to, ignore the hip herd majority and do yores own thing

kunst nugget

Dance music is niche music just like metal or punk with all the subdivisions, and more, of those genres. Like those other genres it had its moment in the sun before retreating back to being a more specialised interest. Metal promoters will have trouble getting large crowds of people through the door and so will punk promoters. What is being peddled by the likes of the Swedish House Mafia is pop with some dance music stylings - nothing more. Just like Green Day are pop with a punk overcoat. **** like what happened at the Swedish House Mafia has got nothing to do with dance music - look at the line up - it was pop music that's always appealed to knackers and with no Oxygen on this years this was their day out to wreak havoc.

Why would you concern yourself with the opinions of someone that says that what you listen to is fake?

jonnny68

kunst nugget wrote: »

Dance music is niche music just like metal or punk with all the subdivisions, and more, of those genres. Like those other genres it had its moment in the sun before retreating back to being a more specialised interest. Metal promoters will have trouble getting large crowds of people through the door and so will punk promoters. What is being peddled by the likes of the Swedish House Mafia is pop with some dance music stylings - nothing more. Just like Green Day are pop with a punk overcoat. **** like what happened at the Swedish House Mafia has got nothing to do with dance music - look at the line up - it was pop music that's always appealed to knackers and with no Oxygen on this years this was their day out to wreak havoc.

Why would you concern yourself with the opinions of someone that says that what you listen to is fake?

Yeah i can see your points,SHM appeal to the masses who generally have no clue about real dance music and just want to go out and get thrashed, i generally don't entertain anyone who would think that dance music is "fake" this person is generally alright though, but it's something like this happening which this person would probably mention and probably say "oh the dance scene must be full of scumbags after what happened here" people are too quick to jump to conclusions without actually ascertaining the facts.

It's tragic the way society has gone in general in Ireland, you would be hard pressed to see this in most other European countries.

kunst nugget

jonnny68 wrote: »

Yeah i can see your points,SHM appeal to the masses who generally have no clue about real dance music and just want to go out and get thrashed, i generally don't entertain anyone who would think that dance music is "fake" this person is generally alright though, but it's something like this happening which this person would probably mention and probably say "oh the dance scene must be full of scumbags after what happened here" people are too quick to jump to conclusions without actually ascertaining the facts.

It's tragic the way society has gone in general in Ireland, you would be hard pressed to see this in most other European countries.

Eh, what about London with its riots last year and it's rise in knife crime over the last couple of years and the almost yearly riots in Paris? What about Marseilles, Naples or Glasgow?

jonnny68

kunst nugget wrote: »

Eh, what about London with its riots last year and it's rise in knife crime over the last couple of years and the almost yearly riots in Paris? What about Marseilles, Naples or Glasgow?

I'm talking about concerts mate what happened in the UK or elsewhere wasn't anything to do with a concert, my point being that you are unlikely to see what happened at SHM in most other European countries, im not suggesting it's never happened it's extremely rare though.

Executive Steve

jonnny68 wrote: »

I'm talking about concerts mate what happened in the UK or elsewhere wasn't anything to do with a concert, my point being that you are unlikely to see what happened at SHM in most other European countries, im not suggesting it's never happened it's extremely rare though.

Absolute bollocks Jonny, sorry.


45.000 people in a field drinking all day and doing drugs in the sun? You're going to get some issues.

7 stabbed out of 45k is a pretty damn low casualty rate as far as I'm concerned.

As for "you wouldn't see it in Europe" there was a festival in Holland a few years ago where police fired live ammunition into a crowd and killed a 19 year old and put 7 others in hospital. I'm sure I could find worse examples in five minutes of googling.

Would rather be at SHM in Phoenix park than that...


As for people on AH complaining, that's sort of the point of the place, isn't it?

Executive Steve

jonnny68 wrote: »

Yeah i can see your points,SHM appeal to the masses who generally have no clue about real dance music and just want to go out and get thrashed, i generally don't entertain anyone who would think that dance music is "fake" this person is generally alright though, but it's something like this happening which this person would probably mention and probably say "oh the dance scene must be full of scumbags after what happened here" people are too quick to jump to conclusions without actually ascertaining the facts.

It's tragic the way society has gone in general in Ireland, you would be hard pressed to see this in most other European countries.

Again, try being into Gabber over in Holland or being into Grime in the UK and tell me that Ireland has it bad.

drunkmonkey

jonnny68 wrote: »

Unfortunately it's a shocking reflection of what the scene has become and as i said i genuinely feel sorry for those on the underground who are so far removed from the likes of this.

Come one on now, last night was a freak. I've being going to club nights since henry's days and have never seen or heard anything like that. Some of the promoters I know in dublin would in no way let there clubs run if that amount of stabbings, even any were a regular occurrence at the weekend or events.
I don't think the underground is as dark as your making out. There will always be a dodgy element but not a violent one unless your in the wrong circles.

jonnny68

Executive Steve wrote: »

Absolute bollocks Jonny, sorry.


45.000 people in a field drinking all day and doing drugs in the sun? You're going to get some issues.

7 stabbed out of 45k is a pretty damn low casualty rate as far as I'm concerned.

As for "you wouldn't see it in Europe" there was a festival in Holland a few years ago where police fired live ammunition into a crowd and killed a 19 year old and put 7 others in hospital. I'm sure I could find worse examples in five minutes of googling.

Would rather be at SHM in Phoenix park than that...


As for people on AH complaining, that's sort of the point of the place, isn't it?

are you actually being serious here:eek: there was 45,000+ at the Stone Roses gig on Thursday and not one single arrest and by all accounts the crowd were friendly,and yes people would have been drinking all day and doing drugs too,low casualty rate i cant believe what im reading here,this sh*t shouldn't happen period, ive been at massive festivals and concerts before and never seen anything remotely like this happen, i was at Heaton Park in Manchester last Saturday night and i didn't see one fight or anything of the sort, all i seen was people out for a great time to see an amazing band and there was 75,000 people there much more than what was in the Phoenix Park


What happened at SHM was disgusting and should not happen

jonnny68

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Come one on now, last night was a freak. I've being going to club nights since henry's days and have never seen or heard anything like that. Some of the promoters I know in dublin would in no way let there clubs run if that amount of stabbings, even any were a regular occurrence at the weekend or events.
I don't think the underground is as dark as your making out. There will always be a dodgy element but not a violent one unless your in the wrong circles.

It is the underground promoters who i sympathise with mate, you have 45,000 going to something like this and if only a fraction of them bothered going to underground club nights, as it stands many promoters are struggling to get punters in the door.

I do hope what happened at SHM was a freak one off but sadly i don't think it is, Oxegen and some other festivals have been hijacked by scum and what's to say it wont happen again.

A sad reflection on the society we live in

ianuss

jonnny68 wrote: »

are you actually being serious here:eek: there was 45,000+ at the Stone Roses gig on Thursday and not one single arrest and by all accounts the crowd were friendly,and yes people would have been drinking all day and doing drugs too,low casualty rate i cant believe what im reading here,this sh*t shouldn't happen period, ive been at massive festivals and concerts before and never seen anything remotely like this happen, i was at Heaton Park in Manchester last Saturday night and i didn't see one fight or anything of the sort, all i seen was people out for a great time to see an amazing band and there was 75,000 people there much more than what was in the Phoenix Park


What happened at SHM was disgusting and should not happen

But the age profiles are totally different for the two gigs so you're not comparing like with like. SHM was full of kids trying to act like a bunch or hardmen.

Those people don't reflect poorly on society as a whole either. They're a tiny, tiny, tiny minority.

jtsuited

and this is why good clubs have elitist door policies.

ironclaw

ianuss wrote: »

But the age profiles are totally different for the two gigs so you're not comparing like with like. SHM was full of kids trying to act like a bunch or hardmen.

Couldn't agree more. You cannot compare the crowd at the like of the Stone Roses to SHM, Tiesto or Deadmau5. Frankly the latter attract utter sc*m who are just out to cause a problem for the vast majority of peaceful concert goers. They have no intention of enjoying the music, they just see the place as a fair game war zone. Having worked at these concerts in a First Aid capacity the people profile and injuries are totally different.

Without totally white washing, having an easy access gig on the North side in the Phoenix Park probably didn't help matters, saying that I've been equally busy at the RDS.

joker77

I'd somewhat agree with jonny here - there were gigs on multiple days, and the only one that had any kind of problem was the 'dance' gig. Now, granted it's commercial 'dance' (and Snoop Dog?) and not what most people on this forum would be into - but I would contend that the vast majority of the public would categorise the stuff that we would listen to under that big old umbrella of 'dance' music. Was chatting to a mate on email this morning, he said 'All dance music fans are scumbags anyway....' - half taking the p*ss, but half serious as well.

I don't think it's going to have any impact on our 'scene' though - I was in Twisted Pepper on Saturday and didn't see a single wellie clad muddy knacker, luckily. There were a few walking up Abbey Street on the way in, but they probably have no clue what goes on in TP, which is a godsend. Hopefully it stays that way for a long time, I've been a little perplexed though at how TP is still managing to fly under the knacker radar, given where it's located. All down to door policy or what?

kunst nugget

joker77 wrote: »

I'd somewhat agree with jonny here - there were gigs on multiple days, and the only one that had any kind of problem was the 'dance' gig. Now, granted it's commercial 'dance' (and Snoop Dog?) and not what most people on this forum would be into - but I would contend that the vast majority of the public would categorise the stuff that we would listen to under that big old umbrella of 'dance' music. Was chatting to a mate on email this morning, he said 'All dance music fans are scumbags anyway....' - half taking the p*ss, but half serious as well.

I don't think it's going to have any impact on our 'scene' though - I was in Twisted Pepper on Saturday and didn't see a single wellie clad muddy knacker, luckily. There were a few walking up Abbey Street on the way in, but they probably have no clue what goes on in TP, which is a godsend. Hopefully it stays that way for a long time, I've been a little perplexed though at how TP is still managing to fly under the knacker radar, given where it's located. All down to door policy or what?

Probably because of door policy and the fact it probably looks like a student hang out to skobes. Johnny was bemoaning the fact that SHM can attract 45,000 kids while promoters are struggling to get people in the doors. The TP shows if you have a decent door policy and give good promoters the chance to run shows putting on decent acts you will get a decent, peaceful crowd in. I'd much rather the 45,000 kids stayed the other side of the fence tbh.

If someone thinks that all fans of dance music are scumbags then that's their prerogative but I wouldn't be overly concerned. The only events something like this might affect is the big cheesefests and if they are disbanded that'll be no great shame. It's not like you're suddenly see an influx of knackers into the likes of Kennedys or TP.

Logical Fallacy

jonnny68 wrote: »

are you actually being serious here:eek: there was 45,000+ at the Stone Roses gig on Thursday and not one single arrest and by all accounts the crowd were friendly,and yes people would have been drinking all day and doing drugs too,low casualty rate i cant believe what im reading here,this sh*t shouldn't happen period, ive been at massive festivals and concerts before and never seen anything remotely like this happen, i was at Heaton Park in Manchester last Saturday night and i didn't see one fight or anything of the sort, all i seen was people out for a great time to see an amazing band and there was 75,000 people there much more than what was in the Phoenix Park


What happened at SHM was disgusting and should not happen

Jonny, in my time I have done security at concerts and festivals all over Europe. **** happens everywhere mate.

Just a quick question, how much do you really see as a punter buried amongst 75,000 people? Not a lot.

Now, no doubt what happened at SHM was a bad buzz, but statistically you had a much lower occurance of incidences than you had in the general population of Dublin over the weekend.

old gregg

I can't say as I give a flying fcuk about what the general public thinks about dance music. It truly has no impact upon my enjoyment. I'd actually not give a fcuk about old skool and how good/safe it was back in the day either. Bollocks. Saddened to see loss of life and injury at any time though.

Logical Fallacy

old gregg wrote: »

I can't say as I give a flying fcuk about what the general public thinks about dance music. It truly has no impact upon my enjoyment. I'd actually not give a fcuk about old skool and how good/safe it was back in the day either. Bollocks. Saddened to see loss of life and injury at any time though.

There is also the fact that anyone who takes the events of one gig and uses it to dismiss a whole scene and the calibre of anyone involved is hardly going to respond to logical reason anyway.

They are simply looking for events to back up their already formed opinion.

jtsuited

The only people stupid enough to think that the antics at the SHM show in the Phoenix Park are in any way connected to the scenes we'd be involved in, are the type of people who listen to SHM, Tiesto and Avicii.

joker77

It just saddens me sometimes, that there are so many f*cking stupid people out there. As a race, we really are pathetic.

jtsuited

ah there's always been sh1te. Everything gets commercialised. People are idiots. Make some money, play golf, and smoke cigars.

joker77

jtsuited wrote: »

ah there's always been sh1te. Everything gets commercialised. People are idiots. Make some money, play golf cycle, and smoke cigars take pills.

fyp

the_syco

Looking at one or two of the videos of the event, the security in the event looked fairly passive, compared to security that I've seen at metal gigs.

It may have been the numbers, but when someone starts a fight in the event, they should be thrown out.

ianuss

I blame it all on the decline of the Catholic Church. We never used to behave that poorly back in my day, not when you had mass and confession the following morning.

joker77

In all seriousness, is there something in this though. Do the masses need an authorative organisation like this to give them a moral compass?

I'm very much a live and let live type, but is there an argument that the majority of people can't think independently, and need to be f*cking told what to do?

Or am I just depressed today with the sheer hack of them.

ianuss

joker77 wrote: »

In all seriousness, is there something in this though. Do the masses need an authorative organisation like this to give them a moral compass?

I'm very much a live and let live type, but is there an argument that the majority of people can't think independently, and need to be f*cking told what to do?

Or am I just depressed today with the sheer hack of them.

I think it's just a case of knackers being knackers tbh. It's not like you really need religion to be a good person. I can't say that I'm not a scumbag because I went to mass as a kid, it's because I was raised to be normal (well almost normal anyway).

http://richarddawkins.net/articles/646445-you-don-t-need-god-to-be-good-or-generous

kunst nugget

joker77 wrote: »

In all seriousness, is there something in this though. Do the masses need an authorative organisation like this to give them a moral compass?

I'm very much a live and let live type, but is there an argument that the majority of people can't think independently, and need to be f*cking told what to do?

Or am I just depressed today with the sheer hack of them.

Create a society where a portion of the people get everything handed to them over generations, who don't interact with wider society at all and who basically look on anyone that obeys the law or works and pays taxes as a fool and this is what you get.

jonnny68

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Jonny, in my time I have done security at concerts and festivals all over Europe. **** happens everywhere mate.

Just a quick question, how much do you really see as a punter buried amongst 75,000 people? Not a lot.

Now, no doubt what happened at SHM was a bad buzz, but statistically you had a much lower occurance of incidences than you had in the general population of Dublin over the weekend.

I see your point but at the Stone Roses that weekend i had many mates going to different nights and they too reported that the crowd were great and didn't see any trouble.

I haven't got time to respond to all comments but suffice to say what happened was shocking and society in general has become far far worse than what it was years ago.

EDit

Not in any way excusing the actions from the weekend or downplaying the seriousness of what happened, but to say that society has got worse is a tad melodramatic. This sort of thing has been going on for ever....see http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/may/18/newsid_2511000/2511245.stm as a ~50 year old example

ianuss

jonnny68 wrote: »

I haven't got time to respond to all comments but suffice to say what happened was shocking and society in general has become far far worse than what it was years ago.

Unless you've got some stats to back that assertion up there's little point in making whimsical claims.

Either that or give Joe Duffy a buzz.

jonnny68

ianuss wrote: »

Unless you've got some stats to back that assertion up there's little point in making whimsical claims.

Either that or give Joe Duffy a buzz.

I have been to many many concerts and festivals and never once seen anything like this years ago, society in general has become far worse, years ago you would just get a hiding now if you crossed the wrong person nowadays you will get shot dead, violence is far more prevalent thesedays, this is my point and not "whimsical claims" as you put it.

jonnny68

I notice some journalist called Chris Casser in the Evening Herald has come out and said dance music and hip hop attract undesirables, this is the sort of attitude i was talking about, we all know the majority of genuine people on the dance scene are completely the opposite but this guy is just tarring everyone with the same brush.

jonnny68

EDit wrote: »

Not in any way excusing the actions from the weekend or downplaying the seriousness of what happened, but to say that society has got worse is a tad melodramatic. This sort of thing has been going on for ever....see http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/may/18/newsid_2511000/2511245.stm as a ~50 year old example

ah the battle of Brighton beach

No in all seriousness yeah im not suggesting people were angels years ago because that is simply not true what i am saying is that society has become more violent than what it was, the sheer amount of people who have been shot dead in recent years and gang and drug turf wars,etc is quite disturbing.

deelite

I don't understand why the Garda didnt ask shops not to serve alcohol before a certain time - I know on Patricks day the Garda ask some shops not to serve alcohol before 4pm.

c_o_ck p_i_ss chillage

Personally, I would categorise Swedish House Mafia as "pop music" as their intention was to be as popular as they could be (by working with Tinie Tempah on the single "Miami 2 Ibiza") which was based on current trends in pop music which over the last few years has "borrowed" a 4/4 time signature, trance melodies and brostep breakdown techniques from "dance music".
Another example is the intention of Tiesto over the last few years to be as popular as possible by (working with Calvin Harris and Nelly Furtado) basing his musical output on current trends in pop music as apposed to his output before the "Kaleidoscope" album which was released in 2009.
"Dance music" artists whose intention is to do what they've always done are different in my opinion.

ironclaw

deelite wrote: »

I don't understand why the Garda didnt ask shops not to serve alcohol before a certain time - I know on Patricks day the Garda ask some shops not to serve alcohol before 4pm.

Most people I know stock up weeks in advance for events like these. For Oxegen, the booze was more important than most other packing items :pac:

Maybe a better door policy could have been enforced, but from my experience with MCD, they are generally pretty tight. Does anyone know if the stabbings took place in the actual venue? Because if they took place outside, then this entire thread is null and void. Guilty by association is stupid carry on.

jonnny68

According to reports kids were taking something called "double cherry" which is supposedly a potent form of ecstasy, im out of the loop thesedays when it comes to anything like this, anyone know about this or is it just media bulls*it?

ianuss

jonnny68 wrote: »

According to reports kids were taking something called "double cherry" which is supposedly a potent form of ecstasy, im out of the loop thesedays when it comes to anything like this, anyone know about this or is it just media bulls*it?

They're pills. I had them over the weekend. Pretty decent too.

ianuss

jonnny68 wrote: »

I have been to many many concerts and festivals and never once seen anything like this years ago, society in general has become far worse, years ago you would just get a hiding now if you crossed the wrong person nowadays you will get shot dead, violence is far more prevalent thesedays, this is my point and not "whimsical claims" as you put it.

But my point is, without evidence to back it up, it's just your word.... presented as fact.

Fair enough, shootings have gone up exponentially over the years but that's more to do with drugs/crime gangs and the shootings aren't really representative of society as a whole. For the most part, people who get shot have done something to cause their shooting.

kunst nugget

ianuss wrote: »

They're pills. I had them over the weekend. Pretty decent too.

I think we should lock this thread now. Someone has admitted to taking illegal drugs. He's probably a pedophile as well. Those things go hand in hand. That's the impression I get from After Hours anyway…

jonnny68

ianuss wrote: »

But my point is, without evidence to back it up, it's just your word.... presented as fact.

Fair enough, shootings have gone up exponentially over the years but that's more to do with drugs/crime gangs and the shootings aren't really representative of society as a whole. For the most part, people who get shot have done something to cause their shooting.

well you think what you want mate but i know myself that things are a lot worse now than they were years ago, ive seen it first hand,it's a hell of a lot nastier now.

anyway :rolleyes::pac:

jonnny68

ianuss wrote: »

They're pills. I had them over the weekend. Pretty decent too.

Looks like Pills are back with a vengenace, no one can afford (rubbish) coke anymore so the yokes making a big comeback :pac:

jtsuited

apart from gangland related shootings (in which innocent people rarely get shot), violent crime is down year on year.

the difference between now and yesteryear is that mcd have no qualms in booking utter scum magnets. actually, festivals in general (including the likes of Glastonbury) have become very pop orientated in the last ten years. You book pop acts (SHM are a pop act pure and simple) that can appeal to young working class males, and this is what happens.

And if anyone starts with the 'this is not a situation of class' they can go and sh1te. It absolutely is. Back in the old days, getting planning permission for big gigs was impossible what with residents kicking up fuss everywhere. Then, as more mainstream acts started playing those gigs, the residents' were suddenly placated by getting free tickets from mcd et al.

And all it takes is a few years of big profit from scumfests, and a lawyered up mcd seeking to take everyone to court, and this happens. Simple as that.

jtsuited

jonnny68 wrote: »

Looks like Pills are back with a vengenace, no one can afford (rubbish) coke anymore so the yokes making a big comeback :pac:

it's been a good 18 months since pills were back with a vengeance. but you oldskoolers were too busy telling us how rubbish these new pills were.