phoenix park gigs

horse7

While most of the people going to the park gigs over this weekend are having some fun,spare a thought for the local residents who are clearing up the litter and broken bottles and empty cans after those people who must get drunk to enjoy themselves.

annfield1978

just be grateful you dont live in drumcondra, you would have alot more to complain about

passed through the park an hr ago and could have watched the concert for free!!

think its great having concerts there

JupiterKid

If the violence and scumbaggery at last night's Swedish House Mafia gig were anything to go by, it's possible that the days of concerts in the Park are already numbered.

Gaspode

I dont mind the concerts being in the park, though I think the choice of artist determines the type of crowd, so a bit more care may need to be put into that in the future.
For the first time we had a lot of people heading to the gig (saturday) at the end of our road drinking & leaving the crap lying about. Hopefully it's the last time. I think it's important to report any litter outside the park resulting from the gigs so the council come clear it up - they allowed the event, they need to deal with the consequences.

horse7

Was it the counsil or the opw who allowed the event.

thegills

There needs to be more bins. I walked from Parkgate St. to the Stone Roses gig and there were no bins apart from the fixed ones. Also a lot of bottles confiscated by the guards and left on the ground.

Tombo2001

thegills wrote: »

There needs to be more bins. I walked from Parkgate St. to the Stone Roses gig and there were no bins apart from the fixed ones. Also a lot of bottles confiscated by the guards and left on the ground.

+1 to that....went for a cycle around the park while the gig was on y'day, wouldnt say there was tonnes of rubbish, but there was a reasonable amount, and to be fair, no bins to put it in......maybe MCD will clean up after, maybe not. They should be fined if they dont.

The other thing that struck me though.......the cycle path on Chesterfield Ave around 9pm was like night of the drunken zombies.......it was drunk after drunk after drunk trying to make their way pack towards town like they had some little homing device dragging them, lurching this way and that way, covered in mud, men and women.....really pathetic sight.

Dravokivich

thegills wrote: »

There needs to be more bins. I walked from Parkgate St. to the Stone Roses gig and there were no bins apart from the fixed ones. Also a lot of bottles confiscated by the guards and left on the ground.

Was on a Taxi down that way after being out on Saturday and the driver mentioned it as we were coming up to the area. Looked around meself and said I could hardly blame'em, there's nowhere for them to put the rubbish.

The promoters should have some involvement in catering for mobile bins or skips in the area considering they were the draw for the higher crowds.

If the have to provide security, make arrangements with the Gardaí and various first aid agencies, surely they should be handling local environment factors as well.

Larbre34

I was at Stone Roses on Thursday and passed by Ashtown on Saturday around 5pm

On Thursday I could tell the organisation left a lot to be desired, I know they couldnt do much about the weather but the stewards and security seemed pretty clueless about their own jobs. The place was already torn up and muddy on Thursday night so I can only imagine the state of it by Saturday and Sunday.

It seems to me a lot of the problem is security and control around the wider catchment, not just inside the enclosure of the gig. On Saturday there were hoards of 16/17 yo's out of their minds on drink and drugs miles from the Park, God knows how many didnt even make the gig. I could tell from the crowd coverging on the Navan Road that there would be serious trouble

On Thursday, the transport plans, ie bus and taxi ways into the Park, failed spectacularly. There were people lost, drunk and stoned wandering around in the dark. That must have been much worse on Saturday. The radio this morning is full of reports of open drug selling, assaults, public sex going on on Saturday in the Park, apart from the place being turned into a giant rubbish dump and toilet. And then obviously there were the 9 stabbings and other assaults, as well as at least one and perhaps three drug overdose deaths. RIP, no one deserves that

Theres talk about blame, but everyone involved should be held responsible. The promoters, the OPW who run the Park, the City Council who approve the conditions of planning and licencing, the Gardaí.

1. Why are the promoters not forced to pay the bill for policing the wider area. Why should the residents of the adjoining neighbourhoods and public transport passengers have to put up with the hellish behaviour and aftermath on Saturday? They should certainly be billed every cent of the clean up.

2. Why should the OPW be allowed to rent out a state park just because they think its alright? The litter alone must cause a huge danger to wildlife, particularly the resident deer. The concert site is destroyed. I know its only grassland but it will take 2-3 years to recover, not to mention the approach roads and paths. Why should the regular park users have to loose that amenity for years to come? Only in Ireland would you have a situation on Saturday where the neighbours were, the US Ambassdor, the President of Ireland, the Papal Nuncio and 45,000 drink and drug fuelled feral kids

3. Why did the City Council think it was ok to licence a relatively isolated and dark location for 3 nights of 50,000 capacity concerts. That venue has only ever held much smaller gigs. Its pretty clear somebody was trying to make up the revenues lost with Oxegen going without paying for support services required for the increased scale in the Park

4. Why didnt the Gardaí insist on a much more robust policing plan, based on previous festival experiences? They should have said that if the resources werent available in terms of manpower, budget, or contribution from the promoter that they couldnt guarantee security. And they didnt because their presence was token and pitiful and the kids on Saturday could do absolutely whatever they wanted, wherever they wanted

Discuss!

Diddler1977

Larbre34 wrote: »

I was at Stone Roses on Thursday and passed by Ashtown on Saturday around 5pm

On Thursday I could tell the organisation left a lot to be desired, I know they couldnt do much about the weather but the stewards and security seemed pretty clueless about their own jobs. The place was already torn up and muddy on Thursday night so I can only imagine the state of it by Saturday and Sunday.

It seems to me a lot of the problem is security and control around the wider catchment, not just inside the enclosure of the gig. On Saturday there were hoards of 16/17 yo's out of their minds on drink and drugs miles from the Park, God knows how many didnt even make the gig. I could tell from the crowd coverging on the Navan Road that there would be serious trouble

On Thursday, the transport plans, ie bus and taxi ways into the Park, failed spectacularly. There were people lost, drunk and stoned wandering around in the dark. That must have been much worse on Saturday. The radio this morning is full of reports of open drug selling, assaults, public sex going on on Saturday in the Park, apart from the place being turned into a giant rubbish dump and toilet. And then obviously there were the 9 stabbings and other assaults, as well as at least one and perhaps three drug overdose deaths. RIP, no one deserves that

Theres talk about blame, but everyone involved should be held responsible. The promoters, the OPW who run the Park, the City Council who approve the conditions of planning and licencing, the Gardaí.

1. Why are the promoters not forced to pay the bill for policing the wider area. Why should the residents of the adjoining neighbourhoods and public transport passengers have to put up with the hellish behaviour and aftermath on Saturday? They should certainly be billed every cent of the clean up.

2. Why should the OPW be allowed to rent out a state park just because they think its alright? The litter alone must cause a huge danger to wildlife, particularly the resident deer. The concert site is destroyed. I know its only grassland but it will take 2-3 years to recover, not to mention the approach roads and paths. Why should the regular park users have to loose that amenity for years to come? Only in Ireland would you have a situation on Saturday where the neighbours were, the US Ambassdor, the President of Ireland, the Papal Nuncio and 45,000 drink and drug fuelled feral kids

3. Why did the City Council think it was ok to licence a relatively isolated and dark location for 3 nights of 50,000 capacity concerts. That venue has only ever held much smaller gigs. Its pretty clear somebody was trying to make up the revenues lost with Oxegen going without paying for support services required for the increased scale in the Park

4. Why didnt the Gardaí insist on a much more robust policing plan, based on previous festival experiences? They should have said that if the resources werent available in terms of manpower, budget, or contribution from the promoter that they couldnt guarantee security. And they didnt because their presence was token and pitiful and the kids on Saturday could do absolutely whatever they wanted, wherever they wanted

Discuss!

All fair points and well made BUT surely there has to be some personal responsibility of the concert goers i.e. whether there is adequate policing and security or not - don't take drugs or drink so much that you end up having public sex or getting involved in fights

Dravokivich

To be honest, the kind of people that instigate fights, will continue to do so without the drink and drugs. There's only so much you can ask of Security and Garda presence and when you accept that they are going to be vastly out numbered, makes in essence, there presence is "token," but even then, I believe it was mentioned in reports that there was a higher presence of such than required for the attendence.

Larbre34

Diddler1977 wrote: »

All fair points and well made BUT surely there has to be some personal responsibility of the concert goers i.e. whether there is adequate policing and security or not - don't take drugs or drink so much that you end up having public sex or getting involved in fights

There certainly should be personal responsibility, and no doubt most of the kids there were responsible and come from responsible homes, the problem is the element for whom personal responsibility is a foreign language. The concert was only an magnified example of it I know, but it can be seen every day in Dublin and its getting way out of hand

The organisation of these events should be set up to deal with the lowest common denominator. If thats uneconomical then there should be no event

Diddler1977

Larbre34 wrote: »

There certainly should be personal responsibility, and no doubt most of the kids there were responsible and come from responsible homes, the problem is the element for whom personal responsibility is a foreign language. The concert was only an magnified example of it I know, but it can be seen every day in Dublin and its getting way out of hand

The organisation of these events should be set up to deal with the lowest common denominator. If thats uneconomical then there should be no event

Seems very unfair to all the well behaved decent music lovers

O'Doodle

If MCD want a concert in the park or Punchestown or wherever they must pay for the policing of the event. So if that means paying for 2,000 police officers then so be it.

They do this is England and the rest of the UK. You want a public event, you get sent the policing bill. Only fair.

O'Doodle

I'm not against having concerts in the park because in London they can manage events like Hard Rock Calling and just yesterday the Wireless festival in Hyde Park. But in Dublin, a concert in the park turns into absolute knacker fest.

In my opinion if other cities and countries can host similar concerts (with similar acts) without stabbing and deaths then in my opinion MCD and the authorities are completely at fault for not ensuring public safety at this concert.

Dravokivich

Can't seem to see it mentioned anywhere else, but on the front page of the metro this morning there was a quote from Denis Desmond (managing director of MCD):

"Despite our best efforts - with security and garda personnel levels well in excess of the required numbers for a licensed event of this size - there is only so much one can do to combat anti-social behaviour"

No exact number given to compare against what was required and how many were active, but it was something they appeared to have anticipated.

Gaspode

Since this is the D15 forum, lets try to keep the discussion relevant to the area if possible, as there are already several big threads on this subject on boards already.
Cheers

kippy

We probably pay some of this highest prices in Europe for gigs and have generally gotten some of the worst organised events known to man (consistently) yet still keep buying tickets.
Until:
a. MCD start having trouble getting permits for these events.
b. People stop buying tickets to them
Very little is going to change.

I hadn't been at a major outdoor gig in about three years and had said at my last gig, that was it, but for the Stone Roses I decided I had to get to it.
Nothing has changed, gotten worse if anything.
No where near enough toilets.
No where near enough bars.
Poor area for a gig in the first place. Not enough lighting, very obvious "wet areas" that could have been dealt with better, very poor access, very few bins, and from what happened on Saturday night obviously not enough security at the event.
Personal responsibility comes into it everywhere but the value for money for a 65 quid ticket is just awful. Promoters will only spend the bare minimum to get a gig setup.

As for the D15 aspect of it, I would hate to have to live in the area over the past few days. There's a good reason major events are usually held outside of residential areas.

EDIT: Aplologies mod, just spotted the warning there.

wildlifeboy

Went to the Stone Roses, lots of toilets, lots of bars, no queing, lots of room, lots of security. no fights, no hassle. walked over from the halfway house after getting the train down from coolmine. all in all a great gig. lets face facts here. all the crap that went wrong at swedish house mafia was due to the genre of music and the crowd that that attracts. you dont get thirty somethings smoking weed and doing pills sticking each other with knives!

ChrisOtter

hi my cousin Aoife has been missing since the gig on sat can you please look at the link and spread the photo of her. please we need to find her safe and sound!!!

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0709/missing-aoife-finan.html

Larbre34

I suppose the D15 aspect to this is that the Park feeds in to D15. It was the public transport through and some of the neighbourhoods of D15 that bore the brunt of the anti-social behaviour. The Park is a huge amenity for D15-ites especially those of us living in Apartments who use it for leisure. If theres to be a lobby against these gigs, or at least to have them properly policed then the D15 public reps and Gardai should be getting involved, its on their doorstep

I see RTE are saying a 19yo girl from Cork was last seen at 11pm at the gig on Saturday and hasnt been seen since. Anyone on twitter etc might spread the word, enough bad things came out of that gig already

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0709/missing-aoife-finan.html

EDIT: Hadn't seen the above post from Aoife's cousin when posting. Hope you get her back safe soon

Bunnyhopper

Gaspode wrote: »

I dont mind the concerts being in the park, though I think the choice of artist determines the type of crowd

This seems a key point to me. There have been lots of gigs and other events in the Park over the years and most have passed off without any remarkable incidents. I don't recall any stabbings or public sex when that Polish lad did his gig down where the Papal cross is.

Larbre34

Bunnyhopper wrote: »

This seems a key point to me. There have been lots of gigs and other events in the Park over the years and most have passed off without any remarkable incidents. I don't recall any stabbings or public sex when that Polish lad did his gig down where the Papal cross is.

Absolutely. The authorities licencing events should research or get advice on that aspect. If it means talking to music journos or something about who gets what sort of crowd, it should be done. The worst possible outcome would be to deny everyone big gigs when at the moment we do pretty well on big artists coming to play in Ireland

Tombo2001

Larbre34 wrote: »

Absolutely. The authorities licencing events should research or get advice on that aspect. If it means talking to music journos or something about who gets what sort of crowd, it should be done. The worst possible outcome would be to deny everyone big gigs when at the moment we do pretty well on big artists coming to play in Ireland

Very good point.

As with the banks, the music promoters will try to push the limits as far as they can in order to make money.

It would be very interesting to look at the promoter's security requirement for say an Eminem gig, and a Leonard Cohen gig.....to see if the promoter is required (by the authorities) to have a higher security quotient at the Eminem gig, and how much higher.....cause there will sure as hell be more trouble at it....(did I need to make that last point.....no offence intended Eminem).

horse7

Once again the opw has let us down badly,firstly the guardiands of the park close off the main road from d15 to the city centre without consultation with the council ,or the people who live in the area ,and secondly they rent out the park to a badly run event,which if you look at it now,has left the used area in an awful state. Questions not only need to be asked,but it seems the opw are not fit for purpose anymore.

Larbre34

horse7 wrote: »

Once again the opw has let us down badly,firstly the guardiands of the park close off the main road from d15 to the city centre without consultation with the council ,or the people who live in the area ,and secondly they rent out the park to a badly run event,which if you look at it now,has left the used area in an awful state. Questions not only need to be asked,but it seems the opw are not fit for purpose anymore.

Yes. The OPW do some good work around the Country, but they are spread too thin and the range of their functions is too wide

The Phoenix Park should be handed over to be run by the City Council Parks Department which in fairness do a very good job in the many Parks around town. Provided they were resourced properly they could manage the Phoenix Park very well

There would also be the added benefit of the having the managers of the site and the licencing body for events under the one roof so they might plan things a bit better. Might!