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Carbon date a piece of wood- where to go?

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  • 08-07-2012 10:29pm
    #1
    durkadurka
    Registered Users Posts: 6,207 ✭✭✭


    Hi there

    Just strayed over from the rugby forum to ask if anyone can point me in the direction of a company or service that could carbon date a tiny piece of wood that I suspect to be roughly 600 years old?

    Any help much appreciated


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    #2
    slowburner
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,220 Mod ✭✭✭✭slowburner


    Welcome strayer, try here:

    http://www.ucd.ie/radphys/page8.htm
    or
    http://chrono.qub.ac.uk/Resources/Radiocarbon/

    Min sample size is 30g (dry & pure) for UCD, and 10mg for QUB.


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    #3
    dr gonzo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,676 ✭✭✭dr gonzo


    slowburner wrote: »
    Welcome strayer, try here:

    http://www.ucd.ie/radphys/page8.htm
    or
    http://chrono.qub.ac.uk/Resources/Radiocarbon/

    Min sample size is 30g (dry & pure) for UCD, and 10mg for QUB.

    Wow, interesting to see the UCD link! As far as I'm aware the UCD C14 Lab has been gone for some time now leaving Queens as the only one in the country, so that would probably be your best bet OP. Ive been in in it myself, very impressive!

    Alternatively you could send a sample abroad. I think theres a number of companies that accept samples by mail but I dont know if that is going to be cheaper or not.


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    #4
    slowburner
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,220 Mod ✭✭✭✭slowburner


    Cheers Dr.G - my bad - that'll save DD some trouble.

    Their last piece of news was 2002.


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    #5
    durkadurka
    Registered Users Posts: 6,207 ✭✭✭durkadurka


    Thanks a lot folks.

    Blimey its pricey!


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    #6
    dr gonzo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,676 ✭✭✭dr gonzo


    durkadurka wrote: »
    Thanks a lot folks.

    Blimey its pricey!

    It surely is. This is generally carried out as part of larger research projects, and even then its done sparingly. I would imagine that if you go ahead with this you'd be reasonably unique in just doing it out of interest :D


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    #7
    durkadurka
    Registered Users Posts: 6,207 ✭✭✭durkadurka


    My interest is waning fast!!


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    #8
    Gee Bag
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭Gee Bag


    C14 dating is quite expensive and the process can be complicated. The University of Waikato in New Zealand is/was the cheapest place to get C14 dates from. I've been sending samples there for a good few years.

    If you are sending on a wood sample you need to have the wood type identified first as tree species have differential rates of C14 depletion.

    If the item your getting dated is an archaeological object artefact then you need to get licences to export the object and to have it altered.

    Just out of curiosity why do want to get the wood dated? (I have a hunch it might be to settle a bet).


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    #9
    durkadurka
    Registered Users Posts: 6,207 ✭✭✭durkadurka


    No not settling a bet. Would need to be a fairly substantial bet to justify 300 quid sterling!

    Curiosity that's all. I don't know how I could identify the wood type. Is there any other method of dating it?

    And does the fact that it's been buried under sea water for hundreds of years have any impact?


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    #10
    Gee Bag
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭Gee Bag


    durkadurka wrote: »
    No not settling a bet. Would need to be a fairly substantial bet to justify 300 quid sterling!

    Curiosity that's all. I don't know how I could identify the wood type. Is there any other method of dating it?

    And does the fact that it's been buried under sea water for hundreds of years have any impact?

    Archaeologists use wood ID specialists to identify species (i.e. specially trained archies), however any good wood worker/wood turner or forester should be able to identify the species.

    The other method you could use to date it is called dendrochronology (tree ring dating). This is based on the principle that the tree ring which grows annualy is unique due to the climate conditions that year. Queens University in Belfast pioneered this technique. They would be able to date your timber, but I have no idea what it would cost.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dendrochronology

    The fact that the timber was in the sea might be a problem. The amount of old carbon washing around in the sea can mess with C14 dates taken from shell and bone giving a very early date. This is known as the carbon reservoir effect. I don't know offhand how/if it effects timber which has been recoverd from the sea.


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    #11
    slowburner
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,220 Mod ✭✭✭✭slowburner


    If the sample is from a ship/boat, there's a very strong chance that the sample is oak, which is the timber species with the best documented record in Ireland (QUB link)
    Not too sure what the minimum sample size is, though.
    If the sample contained only 3 or 4 years' growth rings, it's unlikely that that would be sufficient to cross reference with the record of known growth patterns.
    Probably best to check min sample size with Queen's before you part with money.

    There are some great online resources for checking shipwrecks, most seem to charge a membership fee - (Wrecksite link)
    Background historical research might be your best bet, all things considered.


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